Send us a text 🎖️ **Royal Marine Commando Ben Ford** (software engineer, Haskell/category theory) joins *No Way Out* to expose the **OODA loop myth** most AI devs still believe. 🔥 **Agentic AI runs John Boyd’s *real* OODA** — not the linear "observe-orient-decide-act" cartoon. 🔴 **LLMs are evolutionary dead-ends**: text-in, text-out, no destruction & creation, no real-time model updates. 🟢 **Active inference AI = fractal OODA**: destroys old models, crea...

Send us a text Momentum favors those who move first. We sit down with Lou Hayes to trace how real-time crime centers (RTCC) rooftop drones, and secure collaboration tools are compressing response times from minutes to seconds—and what that means on the street where handcuffs still close the loop. Lou explains how small suburbs in Chicagoland connect with city, county, state, and federal partners to build a shared picture, crowdsourcing intelligence from 911 centers, analysts, air units, and e...

Send us a text Ponch and Moose connect with Brent Sadler, a retired U.S. Navy Captain and Senior Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, discussing maritime strategy, U.S.-China relations, and naval power in the Indo-Pacific. Sadler reflects on his collaboration with Ponch at PACOM (now INDOPACOM) from 2012-2015, where they shifted from linear, phase-based planning to non-linear, adaptive approaches like complex adaptive systems and a "spectrum of rivalry" to counter China's hybrid threats.&...

Send us a text 🌐 **Spatial Web + Active Inference = Intelligent Planet** Dan Mapes (Versus AI, Spatial Web Foundation) joins *No Way Out* to **destroy LLM myths** and reveal **FEP-powered 3D web** What if the web didn’t just host pages—it hosted intelligence? We sit down with Dan Mapes, director of the Spatial Web Foundation and co-founder of Verses AI, to unpack how a shared protocol, digital twins, and Active Inference could turn today’s internet into a living, learnin...

Send us a text The story starts with a hard correction: observation isn’t enough—orientation wins. A Marine who grew up in Pakistan and rose through the Corps brings a view you do not get in a briefing book. LtCol Asad “Genghis” Khan, USMC (ret) talks straight about war, culture, and the cost of bad decisions. No polish. No excuses. Orientation wins, always. He walks us through the real OODA fight, the one where context beats checklists and judgment beats slogans. He shows how cultural ...

Send us a text The myths are seductive: a Top Gun fighter pilot invents the OODA loop from the cockpit of his F-86 and spends the rest of his life proving it. The truth is better—and far more useful. We sit down with Ian Brown to explore Snowmobiles and Grand Ideals, a new Marine Corps University Press publication that explores John Boyd’s recorded presentations and pairs them with contextual essays by Frans P. B. Osinga. For the first time, you can hear Boyd’s voice on the page: the question...

Send us a text What if everything you thought you knew about human behavior was backward? Imagine discovering that we don't actually control our behavior at all—instead, our behavior is merely the observable side effect of our brains controlling what we perceive. Professor Warren Mansell, a clinical psychologist and expert in Perceptual Control Theory (PCT), takes us on a mind-expanding journey through this revolutionary framework developed by physicist William Powers. Drawing from control s...

Send us a text What if the key to unlocking human consciousness lies not in neurotypical experiences, but in the unique ways non-speaking autistic individuals perceive and interact with reality? In this captivating episode of No Way Out, host Brian "Ponch" Rivera welcomes cognitive neuroscientist, researcher, and spiritual seeker Julia Mossbridge, PhD, and special co-host Sarah Kernion, a mother of two non-speaking autistic children, for a profound exploration of awareness, precognition, and ...

Send us a text In this episode of No Way Out , Captain Dan "Yank" Pederson, the "Godfather" of TOPGUN, shares the origin story of the Navy Fighter Weapons School, established in 1969 during the Vietnam War to address a 2:1 kill ratio that exposed deficiencies in aerial combat. Pederson recounts how he selected eight experienced pilots and RIOs who, with limited resources, created a PhD-level curriculum in just 60 days by emphasizing the human element over technology. This focus challeng...

Send us a text What if we've been thinking about AI all wrong? What if endless scaling isn't the answer, but instead we need systems that understand context, embody knowledge, and grasp causal relationships like living organisms do? In this mind-expanding conversation with Mahault Albarracin, PhD, VERSES AI Director of Research Strategy – recorded on the 49th anniversary of John Boyd's seminal paper "Destruction and Creation" – we journey through the fascinating landscape where neuroscience m...

Send us a text The technological paradigm we've grown accustomed to—with centralized AI models hallucinating answers and requiring massive energy consumption—is about to undergo a profound transformation. This fascinating conversation explores how active inference AI, inspired by the principles of biological intelligence, offers a fundamentally different approach that could reshape our technological landscape. Dr. David Bray articulates the critical distinction between current AI systems tha...

Send us a text What happens when our increasingly interconnected systems face unexpected challenges? Dr. David Woods, pioneer of resilience engineering, explores how organizations can build the adaptive capacity needed to survive in an age of growing complexity. Drawing from decades studying high-risk industries, Woods frames our current technological moment with historical perspective. The "second AI gold rush" unfolds with familiar patterns – promising seamless automation while overlooking...

Send us a text The gap between how work is imagined and how work actually happens sits at the heart of our most persistent safety challenges. In this illuminating conversation with Professor Todd Conklin, we explore how Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) has evolved from its origins in high-consequence industries to become a powerful framework for understanding and improving safety across sectors. Conklin traces HOP's development as a response to the limitations of behavioral-based s...

Send us a text Entropy to OODA Loop: How the Universe's Decay Drives Safety, Systems & Human Performance What if safety isn't about rules—but entropy? In this mind-bending Episode 120 of No Way Out, host Brian "Ponch" Rivera and guest Dr. David Slater (complex systems & safety expert, UK) trace safety from the Big Bang to brain control loops. Discover how John Boyd's OODA loop mirrors quasi-equilibrium states, why entropy shapes safety in F1 pit crews and aviation, and how neuroscienc...

Send us a text What if you could see disruption coming before it hits? The concept of "Left of Bang" transforms how we understand threat detection and strategic advantage—not just in combat zones, but in boardrooms, investment portfolios, and everyday situations. Patrick Van Horne, co-author of "Left of Bang" and former Marine Corps Combat Hunter instructor, breaks down this powerful framework that was originally developed to help Marines identify insurgent threats in Iraq and Afghanistan. T...

Send us a text What can today's organizations learn from the US Navy's approach to innovation during the rapid technological changes of the 1920s, 30s, and 40s? Trent Hone reveals how naval leadership created a remarkably effective learning system during this era of transformation. The Navy's secret wasn't centralized control—it was distributed experimentation coupled with systematic assessment. Junior officers were encouraged to test new approaches with radar, aircraft, and fire control sys...

Send us a text When Tom Walker walked into a Best Buy and saw drone technology more advanced than the space shuttle selling for under $1,000, he knew aerial autonomous systems would fundamentally change society. What he couldn't have predicted was reconnecting with a former 13-96 OCS classmate decades later to discuss how military experience shapes innovation in the rapidly evolving drone industry. The stakes couldn't be higher. With over a million drones now flying in US airspace—outnumberi...

Send us a text In this electrifying No Way Out podcast episode, recorded on May 13, 2025—Top Gun Day—hosts Brian "Ponch" Rivera and Mark "Moose" McGrath dive into John Boyd’s OODA Loop through the "Four Ps of OODA": Perception, Pathfinding, Prediction, and Planning. Framed as a Top Gun Day Special, they clarify that while John Boyd, a former U.S. Air Force Top Gun instructor, developed the OODA Loop, it was not rooted in fighter aviation but emerged from his remarkable consilience...

Send us a text This episode explores the profound life lessons derived from elk hunting, emphasizing adaptability, decision-making, and self-awareness. Joe and Gilbert from the Elk Brothers discuss how their coaching transcends hunting, offering insights applicable to personal development and leadership. • Coaching as an interface for personal growth • 95% failure rate in elk hunting and lessons in perseverance • Importance of adaptability and understanding the external env...

Send us a text Dr. Cooper drops jaw-dropping tales: defying an anesthesia chief with "he’s not dead till I say he’s dead" to save a bleeding patient (still alive years later), or dodging disaster at 500 feet with quick thinking and trim. From the cockpit to the operating room, he reveals how orientation—our mental map—shapes everything, with top cardiac teams catching four errors per surgery through shared awareness, not flawless execution. The conversation soars beyond, tackling healt...