Michael is Professor in Inclusive Education and Director of the Trinity Centre for People with Intellectual Disabilities in Trinity College Dublin. His teaching and research have focused on facilitating the inclusion of children and young people with special educational needs within mainstream schools, promoting the voice of marginalised people within decision making processes that affect their lives, and addressing access issues for young people with disabilities within compulsory and higher education. He has completed longitudinal national studies investigating the provision of inclusive education in the Republic of Ireland. Michael is involved in policy making initiatives within Irish education in relation to the development of inclusive learning environments in schools and higher education. As Director of the Trinity Centre for People with Intellectual Disabilities he manages the delivery of an accredited education into employment transition programme for young people with intellectual disabilities. In this episode Michael and I discuss his journey from teaching to inclusive education, emphasizing the importance of engaging students with intellectual disabilities. He highlights the evolution of awareness programmes, the benefits of inclusive education, and the need for systemic change. He describes the Trinity Centre for People with Intellectual Disabilities (TCPID), emphasizing universal design and self-determination. He stresses the role of interagency collaboration, the potential of AI in education, and the necessity of hope and imagination in fostering inclusive environments. Michael describes the “..enormous progress..in terms of legislation, in terms of policy, in terms of understanding…” within the field of inclusive education.  Notwithstanding this progress however, he believes that “we have to keep reinterpreting.. what does inclusion mean?” He notes that while it’s “not quite every year, but it's every four or five years” that we must reinterpret, “because different challenges come... He states that “...we're in a system… primary, secondary system, that of its nature, if it's just left to its own devices, is not necessarily inclusive”.  Michael describes how when the concept of TCPID was first discussed how the “..idea of young people with intellectual disability going to university was quite radical. It was quite revolutionary”. He explains how “it came from a set of parents who saw their children going to sheltered workshops” and how these parents and others saw that these young people “were capable of far more than they were engaged in..” In 2004 TCD agreed to set up the centre “with funding from Atlantic Philanthropies” and in 2014 the School of Education in TCD took over TCPID, establishing a very committed team “who are determined that these young people can and will succeed”. In establishing TCPID, “ the idea was to really create a pathway in, a pathway through, and a pathway out…Let's do a general programme. Let's introduce them to lots of different areas of knowledge”. The centre now boasts what Michael describes as “a wonderful repository of great people, great academics, great teachers, great therapists, all these people, and that's the resource..”.  Michael concludes by saying “I've always seen education as being about hope, about educators, whoever they are, teachers, parents, community, people, right across the board as hopeful and providing that pathway of hope, and what does that look like, and what does that feel like? And I think that's we have to keep doing that and keep reminding ourselves this is a really hopeful adventure that we're on”. This conversation is rich, enlightening, informative and exudes hope and positivity. It was an absolute privilege to interview Michael and to hear about his work, his research and his stellar commitment to Inclusion and Inclusive Education.