Just some thoughts about preparing
while you are in a good space to prepare
Tony Ennis joins me to talk about how websites can be built with simplicity and power using new html and browser standards.
================== EPISODE LINKS
Tony on X: https://x.com/tonyennis
Html First: https://html-first.com
Mini JS: https://mini-js.com
Base Styles: https://base-styles.com
Tony's talk at big Sky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aknX6xq8Vfg
Una at Google IO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTCIStB6y8s
================== CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro to Tony
00:34 Tony's work at Really Good Software
02:17 "My whole thing though is ..."
05:03 The Platform and a Stylesheet talk
07:18 Html tag list
07:26 Una and the Chrome dev team making progress
09:10 Popovers
11:56 New UI Elements in Html 2023 vs 2025
12:34 Modal
15:48 select with selectedcontent tag
16:27 Multi-selects (they are still bad, but working on it)
16:50 datalist (autocomplete)
20:22 Async in HTML (replacing htmx?)
28:57 Where React is preferred
34:40 The Front-end spectrum -- Mini JS
45:52 Mini-js code example
50:43 Laz on why html is great at UI
52:30 Why a five-year-old can learn html
55:21 Building mobile apps with React Native and webviews
59:50 Server-driven web apps
1:05:45 Base styles (unreleased minimal CSS framework)
1:10:25 CSS Layers for siloing your libraries
Who are the big names in hypermedia, even if they don't know it?
Obviously: Carson Gross (Htmx, fixi), Delaney Gillilan (Datastar), Alex Petros (HTML triptych), Adam Stepinski (Hyperview)
BUT ALSO: Caleb Porzio, Aaron Francis, Levels io, and DHH??
Embrace the backend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQO4Xh1gMpY
with Jon-Michael Hartway
47:16 MY MIND IS BLOWN
Jon-Michael does something pretty crazy here. His entire 3D scene is static HTML. The 3d movement only comes from swapping out the style tag and the CSS!?!???!
===================== BIG SKY DEV CON TALK
Building things for Twitter Clout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzpyIXdzcE
===================== 3D GAME
Demo: https://htmx-3d.deastl.com/
Github: https://github.com/DeaSTL/3d-htmx-game
===================== FLAPPY BIRD
Github: https://github.com/DeaSTL/flappybird-htmx
**** Includes video!
===================== Chapters (From AI)
00:00 Introduction to Jon-Michael Hartway
02:22 Development Background and Programming Journey
05:10 HTMX Experiments and Flappy Bird Game
07:35 Technical Insights on Game Development
10:09 Challenges and Server Management
12:47 Exploring Twitter Clout Projects
18:54 Rule #1: Viral
19:34 Rule #2: Ridiculous
20:56 Rule #3: The wrong tech
26:56 Rule #4: Low scope
29:42 Rule #5: Fun
29:50 Challenges of 3D Rendering in CSS
33:39 Understanding Gimbal Lock and Camera Mechanics
37:57 Implementing Multiplayer with WebSockets
41:18 Innovative Use of CSS for 3D Positioning
46:21 Future Projects and Learning Experiences
Direct your different response codes to different places!
<head>Official Docs: https://htmx.org/extensions/response-targets/
Hypecp example: https://hypecp.com/#htmx-response-targets
"We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they would be easy."
-Lazarus, on creating conference recaps
=================== CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Intro, Aaron Francis, Primeagen
01:19 - 01 - Carson Gross - API Design
04:40 - 02 - Stephanie Gredell - From Human To Bots
07:04 - 03 - typecraft (Chris Power) - VaaS (Vim as a service) -- How to teach vim to thousands of people with Rails and Go
10:28 - 04 - Robbie Wagner - HTML is stealing our jobs!
13:20 - 05 - Warren Buffering - Browsers are for Reads, Native Apps are for Writes
16:49 - 06 - Jon-Michael Hartway - Building things for twitter clout
20:00 - 07 - Ken Wheeler - you can just build things
22:55 - 08 - Duncan Lutz - Potatoes Go Brrr: Adventures in High-Speed Embedded Rust
25:08 - 09 - Mike Amundsen - Making Connections and Solving Problems : Hypermedia's Legacy and Future
29:22 - 10 - Barrett A Breshears - Backends?!? Where we are going we don't need backends
32:41 - 11 - Adam Stepinski - Extending vs Scripting: Lessons from building the Hyperview client
36:47 - 12 - Alex Petros - What's Left for Frontend Engineers?
41:30 - 13 - Dennis Ivy - Why good developers fail interviews
44:55 - 14 - Turner Houghton - JSX minus react plus htmx
47:23 - 15 - Tony Ennis - The Platform and a Stylesheet (A path to Platform / SPA Parity)
54:23 - 16 - Dan Vail I'm dumb and so can you!
57:27 - Closing
=================== TALKS MENTIONED:
Aaron Francis "Publishing Your Work" - Laracon US 2023 Nashville
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YaEtaXYVtI
The Primeagen on Lex Fridman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNZnLkRBYA8
Big Sky Dev Con 2025 Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTstnhS3moc&list=PLE57lymIlIyVXwAO-pO6gvMmnd6isAFTR
01 - Carson Gross - API Design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTstnhS3moc
02 - Stephanie Gredell - From Human To Bots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Sd_09Ci2cM
03 - typecraft (Chris Power) - VaaS (Vim as a service) -- How to teach vim to thousands of people with Rails and Go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfH-hzl3al8
04 - Robbie Wagner - HTML is stealing our jobs!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdocEPDlwYM
05 - Warren Buffering - Browsers are for Reads, Native Apps are for Writes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojy5pQLJ_RQ
06 - Jon-Michael Hartway - Building things for twitter clout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzpyIXdzcE
07 - Ken Wheeler - you can just build things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8WcV7LdnvU
08 - Duncan Lutz - Potatoes Go Brrr: Adventures in High-Speed Embedded Rust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu0hUxz6cJ0
09 - Mike Amundsen - Making Connections and Solving Problems : Hypermedia's Legacy and Future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-GQhQs671k
10 - Barrett A Breshears - Backends?!? Where we are going we don't need backends
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4CECgmr96s
11 - Adam Stepinski - Extending vs Scripting: Lessons from building the Hyperview client
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJdgZsnihnM
12 - Alex Petros - What's Left for Frontend Engineers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7M2inHiT4Y
13 - Dennis Ivy - Why good developers fail interviews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uWfmFCwmII
14 - Turner Houghton - JSX minus react plus htmx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x51t1pQ_gAg
15 - Tony Ennis - The Platform and a Stylesheet (A path to Platform / SPA Parity)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aknX6xq8Vfg
16 - Dan Vail I'm dumb and so can you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlmsRmarXA0
Adds pre-loading to your links and hx-get requests for that extra bit of speed.
https://htmx.org/extensions/preload
Examples:
https://hypecp.com/#htmx-preload
Adds the hx-swap="morph" option.
Let's you do fine-grained swapping and unlocks smooth css transitions between swapped elements.
<body hx-ext="morph">
<hx-swap="morph">
https://htmx.org/extensions/idiomorph
Examples:
https://hypecp.com/#htmx-idiomorph
Make your transition from htmx 1 to 2 easier with this extension
"Flip the switch slowly"
https://htmx.org/extensions/htmx-1-compat/
Core htmx extension head-support
Add support for modifying, updating, or replacing items in the <head> tag of your page.
Working example:
https://hypecp.com/#htmx-head-support
<script src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/htmx-ext-head-support@2.0.2"></script>
<body hx-ext="head-support">
<title hx-head="re-eval">
...and why Laz thinks htmx is here to stay.
A wide-ranging conversation with the creator of the real-time hypermedia framework Datastar Delaney Gillilan.
1.0 launches with a full rewrite, a new website, and a non-profit foundation.
* What is datastar?
* What's different in 1.0?
* Why datastar got rid of all dependencies
* Going bigger and planning for the future
* Web devs can learn a thing or two from game devs
* Is SSE going to have its 'moment'?
* Lazarus on why htmx is here to stay
* Taking on Tailwind CSS (Stellar)
* Rethinking web components (Rocket)
* Utilizing UDP (Darkstar)
================ GENERAL LINKS ===============
Datastar: https://data-star.dev
Delaney Gillilan on X:https://x.com/delaneygillilan
The Datastar Podcast channel (w Ben & Delaney): https://www.youtube.com/@data-star
============== REFERENCED VIDEOS ============
Our first conversation (2024):
Hypermedia at 144fps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbTFlUqELVc
00:23 V1 and Beyond (The journey to Datastar 1.0 blog post)
https://data-star.dev/essays/v1_and_beyond
03:18 Anthony Alaribe
You can’t build interactive web apps except as SPA (and other myths)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVKSmR_hBMs&t=9142s
03:58 Sam SelikoffHigh Floor, High Ceiling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVKSmR_hBMs&t=5693s
01:11:21 Daniel Colbourne - Put Verbs in your database - Event Sourcing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mb2L97Yq88
2:26:20 Ben Croker Bug fix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdbaGOibJkc&t=1051s
============= CHAPTERS (from AI) ==========
00:00 The Journey to DataStar 1.0
02:57 Hypermedia and Modern Web Features
05:46 Understanding DataStar's Philosophy
08:42 The Core Concept of DataStar
11:17 Embracing Server-Sent Events (SSE)
14:13 The Evolution of DataStar's Signals
17:04 DataStar's Rewrite and New Features
20:03 Comparing DataStar with Other Tools
22:41 The Future of DataStar and SDKs
28:22 Community Building and SDK Evolution
29:55 Dependency Management and Performance Optimization
32:40 Testing and Metrics in Development
35:06 The Importance of Size and Speed
38:06 Plugins and Core Functionality
42:31 Version 1 Launch and Nonprofit Structure
45:20 Introducing Rocket and Stellar
54:45 The Evolution of CSS and Semantic HTML
59:32 Introducing Darkstar: A New Era for Web Development
01:04:12 Event Sourcing and Real-Time Collaboration
01:08:15 The Future of Hypermedia and DataStar vs HTMX
01:26:44 The Limitations of Polling and State Management
01:33:12 Comparing DataStar and HTMX: A Functional API Discussion
01:38:18 The Future of Frameworks: DataStar vs. HTMX
01:43:35 Hypermedia as the Future of Web Development
01:50:39 The Journey of Open Source Development
01:54:21 Embracing Collaboration and Innovation
01:56:51 The Challenge of Popularity and Engagement
01:59:09 Navigating the Landscape of Hypermedia
02:03:17 Building a Community and Onboarding
02:07:24 Understanding Preferences in Development
02:12:04 The Future of SSE and Hypermedia
<div hx-get="/sending-status/"
hx-trigger="every 2s"
hx-swap="outerHTML">
Sending...
</div>
Is it ok? Can you make "real" apps without npm?
Original X post:
"we are now at a point that we can ditch build systems for many projects & many people underestimate the amount weight doing so would lift off their burdened shoulders"
- htmx_org
https://x.com/htmx_org/status/1928819921376395580
Chapters:
0:14 What is no-build?
1:35 The X arguments
4:25 Why the build process is (was) good
5:26 Build process in practice
6:31 Got money to burn?
8:25 Do your own thing
9:12 Tailwind CSS and Remix 3 (!!!) are introducing no-build setups
11:00 There's always new ways to build great things
11:20 (but learn build steps and React to get a job)
I talk to Ronan Berder, the creator of Basecoat UI, a tailwind-based version of ShadCN for non-React projects.
Built specifically for use with server-rendered templates, htmx, vanilla js, alpine, and other hypermedia-based solutions.
Basecoat UI: https://basecoatui.com/
Basecoat Repo: https://github.com/hunvreus/basecoat
Ronan on X: https://x.com/hunvreus
I ask him how he built it, why he built, and what he has in store for it.
Chapters (from AI)
00:00 Introduction to Basecoat UI
06:51 The Journey of Building Basecoat UI
11:09 Understanding Theming and Customization
18:57 Complexity in UI Libraries
24:01 Design Principles and Aesthetics
30:06 Future of Basecoat UI and Community Engagement
38:24 Navigating Browser Compatibility Challenges
41:49 The Evolution of Web Technologies
45:25 Performance Optimization in Web Development
51:14 The Aesthetic Appeal of Modern Web Applications
54:29 Generative UI and the Future of Development
01:01:21 Simplifying Complexity in Web Development
01:11:42 Open Source Contributions and Community Engagement
https://grugbrain.dev
read the essay.
buy the book.
it's so good
00:00 Intro
01:00 What is the Grug Brained Developer?
06:13 Carson's dev cred
12:12 Web dev is hard!
13:08 The Eternal Enemy: Complexity
17:27 Saying No
19:07 Saying ok
22:28 Factoring Your Code
26:45 Testing
32:56 Agile
35:04 Refactoring
38:42 Chesterton's Fence
41:03 Microservices
45:12 Tools
Type Systems
53:58 Expression Complexity
57:07 DRY
1:00:22 Separation of Concerns (SoC)
1:04:28 Closures
1:07:57 Logging
1:08:14 Concurrency
1:09:44 Optimizing
1:11:31 APIs
1:18:17 Parsing
1:19:44 The Visitor Pattern
1:19:55 Front End Development
1:22:55 Fear Of Looking Dumb
1:28:20 The Essay vs. The Book
Codin' Dirty essay:
https://htmx.org/essays/codin-dirty/
One of many in the htmx/uncle bob twitter feud:
https://x.com/unclebobmartin/status/1917306604267135311
Answer: Yes. But its different, because htmx is not a framework
Datastar signals let you do front end stuff like alpine & hyperscript
Demo: https://hypecp.com/demos/datastar-signals
Video: https://youtu.be/csPFLpm8OYI
Bad Apple: https://data-star.dev/examples/bad_apple
Is Laz doing too many things at once?
This might be the fastest, easiest way possible to make your dashboard live!
Basically just do polling with an hx-get, hx-select, and an hx-trigger
The visual version of this episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU3FEHJRMEs