The explosion of AI-generated applications isn't just breaking traditional recruiting - it's creating an unprecedented opportunity by making sophisticated assessment tools accessible for early-stage screening. There is now the opportunity to filter thousands of applicants based on actual predictive data. However, the vendor landscape here can be confusing, and some offerings lack the transparency that employers need. So how can organizations identify tools that leverage AI's efficiency while respecting established peer-reviewed assessment science? My guest this week is Djurre Holtrop, Assistant Professor at Tilburg University. In our conversation, Jura reveals how AI could democratize evidence-based assessment for organizations of all sizes and offers advice on best practices and the future assessment landscape. In the interview, we discuss: The science-practice gap in assessment The tension arising from the rapid development of AI and the need to evaluate work performance results over time. AI isn't making the process worse because CVs and cover letters have no predictive validity. How is AI improving the science? Transforming recruiting with early-stage screening How bias carries through the recruiting process Resetting our mental models What does the future look like? Recruiting Future helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. If you're interested in finding out how your TA function measures up in these four critical areas, I've created the free FITT for the Future Assessment. It'll give you personalised insights to help you build strategic clarity and drive greater impact immediately. Just head to mattalder.me/podcast to complete the assessment—it only takes a few minutes. Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

For too long, gaps in resumes have been a red flag for recruiters. But what if this outdated bias is costing you your best hires? In today's world, where everyone's constantly reskilling and skills become obsolete within months, penalizing career breaks makes absolutely no sense. This red flag mentality drives ageism and automatically screens out experienced professionals. Organizations clinging to "recent experience" requirements are handing their competitors access to mature talent bringing fresh perspectives, proven loyalty, and decades of expertise. So how can forward-thinking employers flip this nonsensical bias into strategic advantage by recognizing that career breaks often create stronger professionals, not weaker ones? My guest this week is Hazel Little, CEO at Career Returners. Hazel exposes the real cost of resume gap discrimination and shares proven strategies for building returner programs that deliver business results. In our conversation, she reveals why the red flag mentality around career breaks belongs in recruiting's past. In the interview, we discuss: What is a career returner? What are the common issues returners face The human impact of bias What drives career gap bias? Incorrect perceptions, false assumptions, and outdated approaches to hiring The significant advantages of tapping into the returner talent pool The significance of the decreasing shelf life of skills Advice to employers What might the future look like? Recruiting Future helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. If you're interested in finding out how your TA function measures up in these four critical areas, I've created the free FITT for the Future Assessment. It'll give you personalised insights to help you build strategic clarity and drive greater impact immediately. Just head to mattalder.me/podcast to complete the assessment—it only takes a few minutes. Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Foresight. The pace of change has become relentless. Economic volatility, AI adoption, hybrid work challenges, and geopolitical shifts are forcing companies to completely rethink their workforce strategies. Organizations that once planned in five-year cycles now refresh their approaches on a quarterly or even monthly basis. This unprecedented disruption demands immediate action - but many HR and talent teams remain paralyzed by uncertainty. Traditional recruitment and development approaches simply can't keep pace with how rapidly skills requirements are evolving. What concrete steps should companies take today to build resilience into their talent strategies? My guest this week is Peter Miscovich, Global Future of Work Leader at JLL. Peter has spent 25 years helping Fortune 100 companies navigate workforce transformation and has never been busier than right now. In our conversation, he shares practical insights on building adaptive talent strategies, why continuous learning has become non-negotiable, and the specific skills companies must prioritize immediately to remain competitive in a constantly changing environment. In the interview, we discuss: What are employers most concerned about? AI integration and workforce transformation The age of anxiety Creating multiple flexible scenarios to shape the future Building Liquid Workforces Organisational structures that combine humans and AI Continuous learning, psychological safety, and resilience Anticipating the skills of the future and bridging the L&D gap Reframing your professional identity How should employers be preparing for 2030? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. This episode is about Talent and Technology. Timely and effective measurement of the quality of hire has long been a significant frustration for talent acquisition, with meaningful data often trapped in subjective performance reviews that arrive too late to be of any help. But what if AI could help connect interview assessments, onboarding metrics, and performance data in ways that reveal which hires are going to succeed, creating real-time feedback loops that continually improve hiring decisions?   So, how exactly can employers build these types of connected systems? My guest this week is Mark Linnville, Head of Talent at Garner Health. In our conversation, he reveals how to identify accurate leading indicators for quality of hire, why authentic interview experiences help predict performance, and how AI helps connect the dots we've been missing. In the interview, we discuss: Talent market challenges Removing the silos in the talent function Providing a true-to-self candidate experience How do you judge quality of hire from a TA perspective? Leading indicators versus lagging data Creating continuous feedback loops Using AI to connect interviews to performance The importance of the human element of talent acquisition What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. This episode is about Talent. While we're seeing a growing awareness of ageism, the reality is that it is regularly ignored as an inclusion factor. The impact of this is staggering. AARP estimates that ageism costs the US economy $850 billion in lost GDP annually, and research shows that intergenerational teams consistently outperform age-segregated ones in terms of productivity and innovation. Yet, unlike other forms of discrimination, age bias is openly accepted in hiring via things like age-coded job descriptions and ATS systems that filter by graduation dates. So what will it take for organizations to recognize that age discrimination isn't just morally wrong - it's actively destroying their competitive advantage? My guest this week is Maureen Clough, host of the 'It Gets Late Early' podcast and advocate against ageism on a mission to expose this universal form of discrimination. In our conversation, she reveals practical strategies for both employers and job seekers to combat age bias while building truly inclusive workplaces that work for everyone. In the interview, we discuss: Is ageism getting worse? The $850 billion impact on GDP How ageism is baked into some recruiting processes Why proving age discrimination in the US is so difficult. What should TA do to combat ageism? The power of intergenerational teams and mentorship AI's impact on entry-level jobs and Gen Z's involuntary disconnection from the workplace Strategies for older job seekers What should the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Influence and Technology. Talent Acquisition leaders are navigating a uniquely challenging period, juggling rapid advancements in AI with ongoing operational demands. The opportunity to automate routine tasks is clear, but the real challenge is determining where AI ends and human intervention begins.  With AI technologies rapidly reshaping the recruitment landscape, how can employers ensure they deploy AI strategically rather than superficially?  My guest this week is Chris Riche-Webber, VP Business Intelligence and Analytics at SmartRecruiters. Chris shares valuable insights into defining clear outcomes for AI deployment, experimenting effectively, and building genuine trust with technology vendors. In the interview, we discuss:  Current TA market realities Implementing AI to its full potential Defining the split between automation, augmentation, and obsolescence Why trust is critical for AI success Radical shifts in recruiter roles Hiring Manager self-service and why human backstops aren't the solution What will TA teams do when AI gives them increased capacity? How to build a business case What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Talent and Foresight. We're no longer dealing with a world that's simply volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous - we've arguably entered something far more challenging: a reality that's brittle, anxious, nonlinear, and incomprehensible. This shift is turning traditional workforce planning completely on its head. Three-year strategic plans become meaningless when entire job categories disappear in months, when AI capabilities jump overnight, and when market conditions change faster than planning cycles can adapt. So how can employers develop effective talent strategies in highly uncertain times, and how might talent acquisition step up to take a strategic role? My guest this week is Toby Culshaw, VP of Strategy for Talent Intelligence at Lightcast. In our conversation, Toby explains how real-time talent intelligence is needed to build talent strategies that can respond to rapid change and why TA teams are uniquely positioned as invaluable sources of business intelligence. In the interview, we discuss: Moving from a VUCA world to a  BANI world Dramatic change with significant compound effects The implications for long-term planning Why it is now easier to better align TA with workforce planning Signals and real-time talent intelligence The shortening half-life of job skills The anxious workforce Surfacing insights from TA War gaming and scenario planning The importance of data What might the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Foresight and Talent Some of the most significant innovations in talent management and talent acquisition originated in the tech sector. From Edison's revolutionary use of teamwork to Netflix's principle of Talent Density, cutting-edge thinking about technology has often also involved cutting-edge thinking about talent. What might the history of technology teach us about the future impact of AI on talent practices? My guest this week is Jamie Dobson, CEO of Container Solutions and author of the forthcoming book, “Visionaries, Rebels and Machines,” on the history of technology. In our conversation, Jamie identifies some of the talent innovations the tech sector has given us, shares how he applied some of this thinking to his own business, and we discuss what the future might look like In the interview, we discuss: How can historical context help us understand the future? Examples of talent innovations that have come out of the tech sector Teamwork and talent density The problem with copying the artifacts but not the thought processes behind them Lessons from elite sports How technology changes, but human nature doesn't What does the future look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Hi there, welcome to episode 711 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Talent and Technology. The recruitment technology landscape is experiencing a perfect storm. Perfect match candidates aren't completing applications due to frustrating processes. At the same time, recruiters are being overwhelmed by candidates using AI tools to generate thousands of low-quality submissions. Traditional matching algorithms provide limited transparency into the decision-making process, thereby creating legal and compliance risks. Meanwhile, cost-per-application models continue to charge for clicks rather than actual conversions, leaving employers paying for candidates who never complete the process. How can TA teams navigate this impossible environment while improving outcomes for everyone involved? My guests this week are Simon Van Hijfte, Marketing Manager at Adecco Belgium, and Ritu Mohanka, CEO at VONQ. Simon shares how Adecco is transforming their recruitment process with AI agents and the impressive results they're achieving - from improved candidate satisfaction to enhanced recruiter efficiency. We also all discuss the shift from opaque matching systems to transparent point-based scoring, how AI agents are solving the broken candidate experience, and why this people-first approach is delivering better business outcomes across the board. Why is the candidate experience broken? The impact of candidates using AI Implementing a people-first approach supported by AI Recruter Enablement vi AI Agents What do the candidates think? Moving from matching to scoring and explainable decision making Spotting transferable skills Vonq's innovative CPA+ model What results has Adecco been getting? What does the future of recruiting look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about talent. Economic uncertainty and disruption has reached a whole new level in 2025, with companies freezing hiring plans and candidates hesitating to make career moves. But if talent attraction strategies fail during market volatility, how can organizations that need scarce and specialized talent survive and thrive?  So, when candidate markets are tight, how can TA teams turn uncertainty into opportunity? My guest this week is Dave Napeloni, Senior Vice President of Global Life Sciences at Korn Ferry. Dave's team is helping life sciences companies navigate talent scarcity by transforming how they engage with candidates during economic disruption. Dave has valuable insights to share, on effective talent engagement and pipeline building, that are changing how organizations compete for talent in these uncertain times. In the interview, we discuss The talent market challenges in Life Sciences Dealing with long-term uncertainty  The impact on candidate behavior How successful companies are using volatility as a competitive advantage  The critical importance of EVPs and employer branding Building candidate engagement through purpose-driven messaging Extending the role of TA beyond onboarding and into talent management How AI can radically improve the candidate experience What the future might look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast designed to help Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about technology and foresight. AI terminology is getting confusing, which is compounded by vast amounts of marketing focusing on future promises rather than the current reality. Beyond the jargon and hype, how can AI agents be used to tackle today's recruiting problems? My guest this week is Shiran Yaroslavsky, SVP Product at SmartRecruiters. Shiran shares the importance of using customer research to build AI solutions for genuine recruiting challenges and to create the right vision for the future . In the interview, we discuss: Building products in disruptive times The difference between AI co-pilots and AI agents Using AI to Solve real TA productivity problems with AI Why customer research is critical for meaningful AI innovation The importance of building agents that collaborate across platforms How TA leaders should be evaluating AI vendors The importance of visionary innovation What is the ultimate future vision for TA? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify. A full transcript will appear here shortly.

Recruiting Future is a podcast designed to help Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. This episode is about technology. Most HR tech projects end in disappointment because organizations focus all their energy on implementation rather than adoption. If successful transformation is dependent on what happens after the go-live date, how can employers build sustainable tech adoption that delivers lasting business value? My guest this week is Melissa Hojwall, Global HR Tech Leader at H&M. H&M has over 100,000 employees, the majority of whom are frontline workers, making internal tech adoption both challenging and high impact. In conversation, Melissa talks about the strategies around implementation, adoption, and continuous change management that help make TA and HR Tech projects successful. In the interview, we discuss: HR Digitisation at H&M How AI can solve TA & HR challenges Predictive analytics The skills needed to get the right balance between humans and AI Tech adoption and change agility Investing in what happens after the go-live date Using resistance as a superpower Finding and showcasing the benefits to the bottom line Disrupting how we interface with technology What does the future of HR Tech look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast designed to help Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about talent and technology. Many employers are facing an increasing problem with candidates' use of AI. Along with dramatically increasing application numbers, AI tools are, in some cases, allowing potentially unsuitable candidates to jump to the front of the queue, endangering the integrity of the recruiting process. One potential answer to this challenge is to deploy science-based psychometric testing much earlier in the process than has traditionally been the case. So, how should assessment tools and technologies evolve to combine scientific robustness, candidate engagement, and resilience against AI manipulation My guest this week is Alan Bourne, Partner at Omatti and an expert in assessment innovation. Alan highlights the issues with legacy assessment tools and sets out a blueprint for transformation that embraces AI to enhance both the candidate experience and the predictive accuracy of the tools. We also discuss the role of assessment in the move to skills organisations. In the interview, we discuss: The real impact of candidates using AI Why resumes & interviews are the least effective and least fair way of assessment Defensive proctoring versus proactive innovation Using AI to develop immersive, simulation-based assessments Getting the right balance between science and engagement The progress of skills-based hiring The danger of just replacing experience-based CVs with experience-based skills What will the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable value by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. In this episode, we'll be focusing specifically on technology. The fundamental shift from complex software user interfaces to conversational recruiting technology is happening right now, with profound implications for how we think about the ATS.  What are the implications for both recruiters and candidates when the recruiting system becomes an invisible part of the flow of communication? My guest this week is Michal Nowak, SVP of Engineering at SmartRecruiters. In our conversation, Michal shares his insights on how conversational interfaces can transform recruiting from an admin-heavy profession to one focused on meaningful human connections and strategic thinking. In the interview, we discuss: How AI has shifted development priorities Keeping up with the technology Working with TA professionals to spot use cases that don't exist yet How AI can help recruiters build connections faster Moving to chat-based interfaces Using adaptive UI to deal with complexity Ethics, transparency, and trust What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Employee turnover continues to undermine talent acquisition efforts, with many organizations investing heavily in hiring only to watch new talent walk out the door feeling unappreciated. Even organizations with the most robust hiring processes continue to struggle with retention, costing millions in lost productivity and repeated recruitment efforts. So how can companies ensure their hard-won talent becomes long-term, engaged contributors in competitive talent landscapes? My guest this week is Brie Harvey, Head of Market Research and Community for Achievers. Achievers is helping organizations implement recognition strategies that transform employee experience and dramatically improve retention rates. Brie offers valuable perspectives on data-driven insights connecting recognition to business outcomes and how taking the right approach to appreciation can protect recruitment investments and drive performance across the entire employee lifecycle. In the interview, we discuss: • TA's lack of control over ultimate hiring outcomes • Praise versus recognition • When hygiene factors are missing, recognition will always fail to have an impact. • Low-cost, high-impact strategies • Impact of recognition on key business metrics • Building the business case for HR Tech • Identifying the performance outcomes that move technology investment from nice to have to must-have • AI-driven personalization • What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is the podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  Skills shortages in emerging technologies have reached critical levels, with companies all fishing in the same tiny talent pool for experienced professionals. But if these technologies are relatively new, why assume only experienced talent can work with them?  In such fast-moving industries, how can companies develop their early career hiring strategies to ensure they get net new talent who can be productive immediately? My guest this week is Tan Moorthy, CEO of Revature. Revature is helping employers build pipelines of entry-level talent by giving high-potential hires the training and development they need to be effective from their first day. In our conversation, Tan gives us an insight into a structured approach to identifying, developing, and deploying new talent, which is transforming how organizations solve their tech talent shortages. In the interview, we discuss: Are employers looking at tech skill shortages through the wrong lens? The ABCD of in-demand skills (AI, big data, cloud, digital) AI Native entry-level talent Critical thinking and problem solving What employers get wrong about upskilling Cohorts, structure, and impact metrics Talent as a C-Suite priority The process to identify, develop, and deploy net new talent The role of technology and data Focusing humans on unique human skills What does the future look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The early careers landscape is experiencing unprecedented disruption. While AI technology offers opportunities to transform how organizations operate, it eliminates many administrative tasks that once formed the foundation of entry-level positions. At the same time, employers are rigidly demanding years of experience and specific technical skills for roles labeled as "entry-level," leaving Gen Z unable to even begin their careers and risking their disconnection from the workforce altogether. So, how can talent acquisition professionals transform this crisis into an opportunity? My guest this week is Caitlin McGregor, CEO and co-founder of Plum. Caitlin shows how employers can leverage Gen Z as the first AI-native workforce who don't have to unlearn old ways of working - they can start with AI-powered approaches from day one without the burden of "how things used to be done." But accessing this advantage requires shifting focus toward durable skills like innovation, adaptation, and communication, not the hard, perishable skills most employers are currently looking for In the interview, we discuss: How AI is disrupting the foundation of early careers The issues with employers demanding three years of experience for entry-level roles The outdated lens we're using to evaluate Gen Z talent Why Gen Z can approach work from an AI-first perspective without legacy thinking How durable skills like innovation and adaptation predict long-term performance The importance of assessment tools that provide value to the candidate The success Scotiabank has had by eliminating the use of resumes in campus hiring What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Celebrating 10 years of Recruiting Future! Over the last 10 years, I’ve interviewed hundreds of TA Leaders as well as CEOs, thought leaders, and the people building the technology that drives the industry forward. Back in 2015, we thought the pace of change was super fast and that the level of disruption was off the scale with social and mobile technologies reshaping how we communicated. In some ways, we might think it was impossible back then to imagine the world we live in now, but many of the changes we see in TA today have been in the works for a long time. The speed of change in talent acquisition is governed by the tension between organizational inertia, which slows things down, and external events like the pandemic, which can cause things to move at lightning-fast speeds. The Generative AI revolution is most definitely in the latter category. We are on the cusp of the most significant changes to TA and recruiting we have ever seen. So, as a TA Leader, how do you manage that change and make sure you and your organization are fit for the future? Over the last few months, I’ve been using the power of AI to unlock the Recruiting Future archive and model the mindset and behaviours of the most successful TA leaders that I’ve interviewed. People who have changed how their organizations think about talent, who thrive on disruption as a catalyst for positive change, and who know how to use technology to enable their vision. These leaders all have four things in common. They use foresight to understand and shape the future, they build influence with the most senior stakeholders in their organisation, they think different to create innovative talent strategies and they use the impact of new technologies to accelerate change. Foresight, Influence, Talent and Technology = Fitt This episode features clips from interviews with two TA leaders, two CHROs, a Behavioural Scientist, and a Futurist talking about these four key areas and what you and your teams can do to be fit for the future. Featuring: Laszlo Bock, former CHRO at Google, on skills Lisa Montieth, Head of TA UK at HSBC on foresight Lyndsey Taylor, Global Head of HR Transformation at Brooks Automation, on influence Rory Sutherland, Vice Chair at Ogilivy UK, on talent Laura Coccaro, Chief People Officer at iCIMS on technology Kevin Wheeler, Future Of Talent Institute, on job displacement Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The entire recruiting landscape is undergoing a profound transformation as organizations grapple with the implications of AI and the economic disruption 2025 is bringing. Talent acquisition teams are drowning in applications while simultaneously being asked to do more with fewer resources. Candidates find themselves in increasingly dehumanized processes where ghosting is now the norm. At the same time, regulatory bodies are developing laws to ensure fairness and transparency around the use of AI in hiring. So, how can employers navigate this challenging terrain while creating fair, accessible, and effective hiring processes? My guest this week is Ruth Miller, a talent acquisition and HR consultant who works across the public and private sectors. Ruth is an advisor to the Better Hiring Institute, working with the UK Government on developing legislation around AI in recruiting. In our conversation, she shares her insights into how organizations can proactively develop strategies that balance innovation with compliance while enhancing rather than diminishing the human elements of hiring. - Different perceptions and reactions to AI among employers across sectors - The paradox of AI both introducing and potentially removing bias from hiring processes - Neurodivergent candidates and AI in job applications - Common misconceptions job seekers have about employers' AI usage. - Strategic advice for organizations implementing AI in recruitment - The future of recruitment and the evolving balance between AI and human interaction Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

AI adoption is still slow in talent acquisition. Employers are experimenting with AI for tactical tasks while missing its transformative potential. This gap between tentative experimentation and strategic implementation stems from multiple challenges, including ethical concerns, a lack of training and awareness, overblown vendor claims, and anxiety about what AI means for job security. So, how can talent leaders shift from automation anxiety to augmentation advantage, transforming their teams from tactical processors to talent advisors? My guest this week is Matt Burney, Senior Strategic Advisor at Indeed. Matt has deep expertise in recruitment technology and workforce trends and explains how AI can elevate recruiters' roles rather than diminishing or eliminating them. In the interview, we discuss: The current state of AI in recruiting Why organizations remain trapped in tactical AI implementations Understanding the root causes of automation anxiety Asking better questions, not just getting faster answers Automation versus Augmentation Why efficiency needs to be about proving value, not replacing people The role of AI in skills-based thinking Why training, education, and greater awareness are vital What does the future of work look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.