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Gospel Tangents Podcast
Rick B
200 episodes
1 day ago
Gospel Tangents explores Mormon History, Science, Theology, and is a resource to learn more about real Mormon History by interviewing historians, scientists, experts, and authors. These podcasts will help generate future documentaries.
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Religion & Spirituality,
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All content for Gospel Tangents Podcast is the property of Rick B and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
Gospel Tangents explores Mormon History, Science, Theology, and is a resource to learn more about real Mormon History by interviewing historians, scientists, experts, and authors. These podcasts will help generate future documentaries.
Show more...
Christianity
Religion & Spirituality,
Society & Culture,
History,
Documentary
Episodes (20/200)
Gospel Tangents Podcast
Jacob Vidrine – Church of the Firstborn (1 of 4)
I'm excited to introduce Jacob Vidrine, a member of Church of the Firstborn. This is a group that is part of the LeBaron fundamentalist group. Jacob is a human encyclopedia of Mormn fundamentalism, and we're going to dive deep into how the LeBaron group cross-pollinates with other fundamentalist groups. Check it out!

0:00 Intro LeBaron Family
4:16 Lorin Woolley Authority Claims
15:20 Kingston & LeBaron Claims
19:18 High Priest Apostles
21:05 Sidney Rigdon Trial
23:53 2nd Anointing-Patriarchal Succession

For more info on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.

When discussing Mormon Fundamentalism, most people—especially members of the LDS Church—immediately think of the FLDS or AUB (Apostolic United Brethren). These groups largely trace their origin back to the authority line popularized by Lorin Woolley. However, there is a fascinating and often misunderstood branch of fundamentalism that descends from a completely different line of authority: the LeBarons. As a helpful overview of this distinctive lineage, we spoke with Jacob Vidrine of the Church of the Firstborn, sometimes colloquially referred to as Ross LeBaron-ites.

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The LeBaron Divide: Ross vs. Ervil
The name LeBaron often carries a dark stigma, primarily due to the terrible acts committed by Ervil LeBaron, who was a murderer and died in jail. It is important to note that Vidrine is not associated with Ervil's group6....

The LeBaron family, descending from patriarch Alma Dayer LeBaron Sr. ("Dayer"), primarily split into two main groups:

* The Mexico LeBarons: Started by younger son Joel LeBaron in 1955 as the "Church of the Firstborn of the Fullness of Times." Joel's church grew significantly before the violent schism with Ervil.
* The Ross LeBaron Line (Church of the Firstborn): Ross LeBaron, the second oldest son, separated and spent his ministry largely in the Utah area, minimizing affiliation with the strife and violence that occurred down in Mexico. Ross's movement is the one Jacob Vidrine is associated with.

Authority: Woolley’s 1886 Revelation vs. The LeBaron Lineage
Approximately 80% to 90% of fundamentalists trace their priesthood authority back to the Lorin Woolley story. This claim rests on the assertion that John Taylor received a revelation in 1886 confirming that plural marriage should never be removed from the earth, after which he set apart men (including Woolley) to keep the practice alive.

Historically, however, the LeBarons and Kingstons maintain a distinct authority claim. The LeBaron claim is deemed by some to be "the most peculiar out of any fundamentalist claim", as it bypasses the 1886 revelation entirely and goes straight back to the Nauvoo era through Benjamin F. Johnson.
Johnson Connection & Birthright
Benjamin F. Johnson was a close friend of Joseph Smith and was one of the men added to the Council of 50 in March 1844. Johnson was heavily invested in the secretive Nauvoo doctrines and claimed that Joseph Smith taught him about plural marriage, the endowment, garments, and the second anointing. Crucially, Johnson claimed that Joseph Smith authorized him "to teach this to others when I'm was led to when I'm led to do" by the Holy Spirit.

Alma Dayer LeBaron, the patriarch of the LeBaron family, was Benjamin F.
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4 days ago
36 minutes 45 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
JFS-Architect of Controversial LDS Orthodoxy (Bowman 4 of 4)
Joseph Fielding Smith is the architect of controversial LDS orthodoxy. He has some controversial writings about Blacks and Ezra Taft Benson. We'll also delve into his role with Lowell Bennion, a BYU professor who was fired. Was JFS responsible or was it someone else? Matthew Bowman answers. We'll also dive into his role in shaping orthodoxy in the 20th century. Don't forget to check out Matt's amazing biography on Joseph Fielding Smith! Check out our conversation...

https://youtu.be/_aBWPp4i1OY

Don't miss our other conversations with Matt: https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved
Joseph Fielding Smith: Architect of Controversial LDS Orthodoxy
Joseph Fielding Smith described as a "lightning rod" due to some views considered politically incorrect today, particularly regarding race. Dr. Matt Bowman, author of "Joseph Fielding Smith, a Mormon Theologian," sheds light on Smith's impact on the church.

One of the most uncomfortable aspects of Smith's legacy is his writings about Black individuals, especially concerning the priesthood. In his work, The Way to Perfection, Smith explicitly stated his subscription to the theory that people of African descent were less righteous in the pre-existence. He used language suggesting they were "not entitled to be born white." Smith was a staunch "defender of the racial restrictions" in the Church and became a major exponent of the idea, which the source traces back to Orson Hyde, that Black people possessed souls less righteous in the pre-existence. This stance led to prominent public clashes, notably with church educator Lowell Bennion at a symposium in the early 1950s. Their argument over the ban contributed to Bennion's eventual dismissal by Ernest Wilkinson, who was president of BYU and commissioner of church education. Wilkinson viewed Bennion as too liberal on race and saw Smith as an ally in this regard. While Wilkinson was the person who carried out the dismissal, the collision with Fielding Smith helped instigate the decision.
Disagreement with Benson
Smith also had complex relationships, even with those seen as ideologically sympathetic. Despite being viewed as a fellow conservative, Smith had significant disagreements with Ezra Taft Benson. A letter from Smith exists in which he hoped Benson's "blood will be purified" upon his return from a mission in Europe in the 1960s. Smith was skeptical of the Church becoming heavily involved in American politics, viewing Benson's fascination with politics as distasteful and inappropriate for an apostle. He considered it "unseemly" and "disreputable." Smith also saw Benson as a conspiracy theorist, distinguishing standard conservative politics (like that of Dwight Eisenhower or David McKay) from conspiracy theory. Smith hoped Benson's time away would rid him of these inclinations, allowing him to return as an apostle rather than an aspiring amateur politician. This highlights that "real deep divides" can exist even within the conservative camp.
Controversial LDS Orthodoxy
Perhaps Smith's most enduring theological contribution was his role in developing the idea of orthodoxy within the Latter-day Saint tradition. Orthodoxy, an older Protestant concept particularly associated with John Calvin, posits that being a faithful member requires believing certain things and that incorrect beliefs can jeopardize salvation. This was not a central idea in the early Christian Church's first century. Smith, possibly influenced by Protestant fundamentalism, began insisting in the mid-20th century that belief is actually really important and that believing "the correct ideas" were crucial because incorrect beliefs could "ruin your sa...
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1 week ago

Gospel Tangents Podcast
How Wes Walters’ Revival Research Forced Mormon Historians to Confront the 1820 Story (Sandra Tanner 5 of 5)
A key figure who accelerated the historical crisis for both the Tanners (who left the group in 1962) and Pauline’s church was Wes Walters, a Presbyterian minister from Marissa, Illinois.

Walters was asked to write an article on Mormons for Christianity Today. His detailed research focused on testing Joseph Smith’s claims against tangible historical records, particularly those surrounding the First Vision. Walters reasoned that while you couldn't prove whether Smith spoke to God, you could prove whether he was standing in a given place on a given day.

https://youtu.be/gPDG7CA9n-0

Don’t miss our other conversations with Sandra: https://gospeltangents.com/people/sandra-tanner

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

 

Walters used his expertise in church history (specifically Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian records in the New York area) to investigate Joseph Smith’s claim that the First Vision was prompted by an intense local revival where ministers were fighting over converts.

Walters’ findings: the great revival and the subsequent fighting over converts among the denominations did not happen in 1820. Instead, significant church growth (hundreds of converts) occurred between 1823, 1824, and 1825. This discovery forced a complete recalibration of the chronology, as it meant the First Vision and the subsequent Moroni visits leading up to the plates could not logically fit the existing timeline.

Walters’ small pamphlet, New Light on Mormon Origins, caused such a disruption that it "threw the Mormon Church into a tizzy," forcing LDS historians to travel back East to conduct their own major studies. Walters is credited by Sandra Tanner as being a key factor in pushing the LDS Church into serious historical scholarship.
Magic Connection: A Bridge Too Far
While Walters’ dating research was shocking, his discovery of the 1826 trial documents cemented the crisis.

Pauline’s group, following David Whitmer, already accepted the story that Joseph Smith used a "rock" in his "hat" to translate the Book of Mormon, aligning with the "seer stone" narrative. However, the 1826 trial confirmed Joseph Smith’s involvement in money digging, associating the seer stone with divination and magic practices—the occult that the Christians in Pauline’s group firmly rejected.

The group found this connection irreconcilable:

* They questioned why God would use an instrument associated with magic.
* They noted that Joseph Smith seemed to bypass the instruments God allegedly supplied (the plates) and continued using the same rock used in divination.
* The transition from seeking treasure (magic) to seeking revelation (religion) looked too "fishy," suggesting it was merely a "switching of what you're using this stone for".
* The fact that the same individuals involved in drawing magic circles and searching for treasure were the same first converts to Mormonism was deeply troubling.

Pauline Hancock’s Church Voted to Disband
The Church of Christ (Bible Book of Mormon), founded and led by Pauline Hancock, emerged as a unique splinter group focused on returning to what they believed was "1830 Mormonism"—a faith centered purely on the Bible and the Book of Mormon, devoid of later revelations (like the Doctrine and Covenants past 1830) and "Aaronic, Melchizedek Priesthood ideas".

However, this small community, known for meeting in the “Basement church” in Independence, ultimately discovered that even their foundational scripture, the Book of Mormon,
Show more...
1 week ago

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Jerald & Sandra Tanner’s Apostolic Scolding (4 of 5)
Jerald and Sandra Tanner received an apostolic scolding by LeGrand Richards over the First Vision! By the early 1960s, Sandra and Jerald Tanner were deep into critical analysis of Mormon history, having transitioned from struggling Utah Mormons to committed followers of a Christ-focused faith centered on the Bible and the Book of Mormon. This new path led them to join Pauline Hancock’s “Basement Church” in Independence, Missouri, formally known as the Church of Christ (Bible & Book of Mormon).

https://youtu.be/uuMY1kq_k_M

0:00 Attending Pauline's church
5:28 Pauline's Cancer/Sandra's baptism
17:02 Apostle LeGrand Richards

Don’t miss our other conversations with Sandra: https://gospeltangents.com/people/sandra-tanner

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

While Jerald had previously traveled to Independence and was baptized, Sandra eventually went by train to meet the group. She was baptized by Pauline in the summer of 1960, making a profession of faith in Christ and affirming her belief in the Book of Mormon. Pauline, described as a lovely woman, was very convinced of her position and served as the preacher for the group, though she never claimed the title of prophet.

This period of adherence to the “Whitmerite” view—rejecting revelations past 1830 and scrapping "Aaronic & Melchizedek priesthood ideas"—was short-lived as the Tanners’ historical questions mounted. Their quest soon took a dramatic turn, involving a top church leader and a disputed document.
Letter to the Brethren
In June 1960, just before moving from California to Salt Lake, Sandra sent a formal letter to all the apostles announcing that she was leaving the LDS Church. Her letter detailed several critical issues, including problems with the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants changes, differences in the doctrine of God over time, and the evolving narrative of the First Vision. She noted that earlier references to the First Vision seemed to speak of an "angel" or "messenger", not the Father and the Son, suggesting the latter was a later change.

Apostle LeGrand Richards responded to Sandra's letter, attempting to prove her wrong. He claimed that his great-grandfather, Joseph Lee Robinson, wrote in his diary in 1841 that Joseph Smith had told him he saw the Father and the Son. Richards reasoned that such an early reference would undermine Sandra’s claim of a shifting narrative.
Confrontation over Microfilm & Apostolic Scolding
The Tanners arranged a meeting with Apostle Richards at the Church Office Building in Salt Lake City to see the original document. Richards was immediately “miffed” when Sandra brought Jerald, who he perceived as a "doubting Thomas.”

Instead of the original diary, Richards presented them with a typed extract containing the crucial two lines about the Father and Son. Jerald immediately pointed out that this was not the whole page and was not the actual diary. When Jerald asked to turn back the microfilm to check the date and context of the excerpt, Richards refused, accusing the Tanners of "questioning everything" he showed them.

The confrontation escalated dramatically in the genealogical building, where Richards had taken them to view the film. Richards seized the film from the reader, declaring to the staff: “These people are not to see this. If they come back in, you’re not to get this out to show it to them. They’re just troublemakers. They do not have authority to see this again.” Jerald and Richards stomped out of the room arguing, while everyone in the room watched the shocking spectacle of someone arguing with an apostle.
Unmasking the 1841 Diary
Show more...
2 weeks ago
34 minutes 49 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Missing 1832 First Vision Account (Sandra Tanner 3 of 6)
Sandra Tanner discusses one of the most intriguing episodes in Mormon history: her early inquiry into the missing 1832 First Vision account. (She didn't know it was missing at the time. The account was allegedly ripped out of the Joseph Smith journal by Church Historian Joseph Fielding Smith. This pursuit led Sandra directly into correspondence with Joseph Fielding Smith, then Church Historian, concerning what she believed was the original, definitive record of Joseph Smith’s earliest spiritual experience.

https://youtu.be/1pDKtA4RfmE

Don’t miss our other conversations with Sandra: https://gospeltangents.com/people/sandra-tanner

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

0:00 Tanner's Secret Polygamy
4:57 Sandra's Teen LDS Experiences
19:06 Sandra's Role in Missing First Vision Account?
The Path to Critical Inquiry
Sandra Tanner’s journey into questioning Mormon orthodoxy was significantly shaped by her mother, who was already deep into researching early Mormonism in the late 1950s. Sandra’s mother insisted on finding chapter and verse for religious claims, refusing to simply take the word of "the brethren" or rely solely on church manuals, often disrupting Sunday school classes with her inquisitive mind.

Sandra’s first met Jerald Tanner in the 1950s. He introduced her to David Whitmer's thinking and the ideas of Pauline Hancock’s group, the Church of Christ-Bible & Book of Mormon). This set the stage for intense study.

A major focal point of this research was the nature of God and how the changing views of God affected the narrative of the First Vision. Sandra noted that the Book of Mormon, in its earliest form, presented a view of God that did not align with the current Mormon understanding of a separate Father and Son.
Conflicting First Vision Narratives
As Sandra, Jerald, and her mother poured over available documents, they focused on inconsistencies surrounding the First Vision:

* Fawn Brodie’s Observation: The first edition of No Man Knows My History had raised the issue that the earliest references to an experience before the 1823 angel Moroni visitation often seemed to refer only to an angel or messenger, not the Father and Son.
* The Historical Record Change: Sandra’s aunt acquired a copy of Andrew Jensen’s Historical Record (from the 1880s), which contained an account where Joseph went into the woods to pray and a "messenger, an angel" appeared to him. However, her aunt’s copy was a later reprint (circa 1890 or 1891) that changed the text to say "the Christ appears to him," raising questions about when the shift occurred and why the Father was excluded in that version.

Sandra and her associates reasoned that if the First Vision story was constantly evolving, they needed to see the genesis of the account.
The Letter & Missing 1832 First Vision Account
In the early 1960s (circa 1961), Sandra, Jerald, and her mother formulated a letter outlining these historical questions to be sent to then-Church Historian, Joseph Fielding Smith. Sandra simply assumed that an initial written account must exist and requested a photocopy of the "original Joseph Smith handwritten account of the First Vision".

Little did Sandra know that some people, like her friend Lamar Peterson, did know about a "strange account" (the 1832 version) that had been shown to him by Levi Edgar Young, who was sworn to secrecy by Joseph Fielding Smith.

Sandra’s request, though based on assumption, might have caused immediate alarm in the Church Historian's Office. Sandra speculates that Joseph Fielding Smith had pr...
Show more...
2 weeks ago
27 minutes 10 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Shocking Truth: Murderers in Celestial Kingdom? Challenging Sandra Tanner’s Faith (2/6)
Will there be murderers in Celestial Kingdom? An Institute Teacher's answer challenged Sandra Tanner's faith back in the 1950s. We'll talk about this unusual case and how it contributed to Sandra joining Pauline Hancock's Basement Church (known as Church of Christ) in Independence Missouri. Check out our conversation...

https://youtu.be/4c6tu0SYs6

Don’t miss our other conversations with Sandra: https://gospeltangents.com/people/sandra-tanner

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved
From Brigham Young Defender to Critic: Influences That Sparked Tanners' Journey
The history of early Mormonism and its subsequent splinter groups is complex, but few journeys into critical thinking are as personal and profound as that of Sandra Tanner. Raised defending the faith, her path to becoming a leading critic of Mormonism was catalyzed by several unexpected influences, including the work of a pioneering female Restoration leader and the startling discovery of historical documents.
The Vision of Pauline Hancock
Sandra Tanner's husband, Jerald Tanner, was deeply influenced by an obscure Restoration group led by Pauline Hancock. Pauline was a head of her group, called the Church of Christ (Bible Book of Mormon), serving as its minister and preacher. Though she never claimed to be a prophet, she was considered a "deliverer of the message".

Crucially, Pauline did claim to have a vision of Christ before the group started meeting as a church. This vision occurred during a transition when she was trying to sort out what she believed, focusing on the "original kernel of Mormonism". She told Christ she couldn't fulfill the calling to tell the world what she had learned because she was a woman, but Christ responded, "I was a man, and they didn't listen to me. So, it doesn't matter that you're a woman. You are called to go out and tell what you've learned".

Pauline’s group focused on studying the Book of Mormon outside of various splinter groups. Their theology centered on the "oneness idea of God," a modalistic model (though they would not have used the term "modalism"). They aimed for a rejuvenation of the David Whitmer flavor of Mormonism, seeking to go "back to original Mormonism" using just the Bible and Book of Mormon.
Jerald Tanner’s Cottage Meetings
Jerald Tanner became converted to Pauline’s message after two visits to Missouri. At age 20 (around 1957 or 1958), Jerald returned to Salt Lake and began holding little cottage meetings at his parents’ house. He would play reel-to-reel tapes of Pauline’s different sermons or teachings. The purpose of these meetings was to discuss early Mormonism and explain where the Church "went off the track".

Sandra’s grandmother, a relative by marriage to the Brigham Young family, received an invitation to one of these meetings via a postcard. Sandra, visiting from Southern California during spring break, drove her grandmother to the meeting. Grandmother claimed it was "sort of like a Mormon fireside". Jerald, whom she found "nice looking" and "cute," impressed her with his studies on Mormonism’s problems and the group's focus on returning to the Book of Mormon.
From Defense to Doubt
Sandra’s journey of doubt had already been seeded by others.

First, her mother and aunt began studying Mormon history in the 1950s after reading Fawn Brodie's book, No Man Knows My History. They were pouring over "apostate literature" and photocopies. Sandra, then in high school, was busy defending the faith, while her mother and aunt were "going into apostasy". Sandra noted that her mother became known as being "too inquisitive" in Sunday school classes, often disrupting the class with questions.

Show more...
2 weeks ago
42 minutes 38 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Pioneers of Criticism: Sandra Tanner, Pauline Hancock, & Quest for the Original Church of Christ (1 of 5)
Before Stassi Cramm became the first woman to lead the Community of Christ, Pauline Hancock led the Church of Christ. Sandra Tanner was baptized in about 1960 into Pauline Hancock's Church of Christ. We'll discuss Pauline's church, Sandra's conversion and de-conversion, and more in this amazing conversation. Check it out!

https://youtu.be/3V-7stAyZ9w

Don’t miss our other conversations with Sandra: https://gospeltangents.com/people/sandra-tanner

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

0:00 Updating Sandra Tanner
5:15 (In)Famous Sandra
9:39 Is Sandra Tanner Anti-Mormon?
12:05 Pauline Hancock's Origins
24:48 How Jerald Joined Pauline
32:43 Book of Mormon Has Trinitarian Roots
34:22 Jerald Visits Pauline
Pioneers of Criticism: Sandra Tanner, Pauline Hancock, & Quest for the Original Church of Christ
Sandra Tanner is well-known today as a staunch critic and historian of Mormonism, chronicled recently in the biography Lighthouse: Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Despised and Beloved Mormon Critics of Mormonism. While Sandra is now enjoying life in a condominium in Sandy, Utah, having retired from the stresses of her old neighborhood in Salt Lake City, her journey as a critic began in the late 1950s alongside her husband, Jerald Tanner56.

This period of questioning led the newlywed Tanners to explore various splinter groups, resulting in Sandra becoming a temporary convert to a unique movement led by one of the earliest known female leaders in the Restoration: Pauline Hancock's Church of Christ.
Critic, Not Anti-Mormon
Before diving into her early faith experience, Sandra is careful to distinguish her identity. She notes that she is comfortable being labeled a "Mormon critic," but strongly rejects the term "anti-Mormon.” This is because the "anti-Mormon" label often implies an animosity toward the people, which she does not feel. She condemns any violence against Mormon people. She sees herself as a critic of Mormonism—its doctrines and history—not its followers.
Jerald Tanner's Search for the "Start"
The Tanners' joint investigation into Mormonism began around 1959. Jerald's personal crisis was spurred around age 18 when his bishop suggested he go on a mission. Jerald began reading critical works, notably Fawn Brodie's book (written in 1945), which was the standard critical source at the time.

His investigation led him to seek out local splinter groups, first visiting the Reorganized Church in Salt Lake City. There, he met a barber named James Wardle, who operated a shop that housed one of the largest collections of historic books on early Mormonism. Wardle provided Jerald with a key text that shaped his direction: David Whitmer's pamphlet, An Address to All Believers in Christ (1887).

Whitmer's position was that the Book of Mormon was the main thing and that Joseph Smith "got a big head, invented all this other stuff.” This idea became Jerald's litmus test: if there was any truth to Mormonism, it had to be at the start, centered on the Book of Mormon. Jerald even took a trip to Independence, Missouri, to verify Whitmer's claims that the revelations had been changed, specifically noting discrepancies between the current version of the Doctrine and Covenants and the early Book of Commandments.
Pauline Hancock and the "Luke-ite" Church of Christ
James Wardle also informed Jerald about Pauline Hancock's small Church of Christ group, noting that they aligned more closely with David Whitmer's views than other splinter groups.

Pauline Hancock was raised in the Show more...
3 weeks ago
38 minutes 6 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
How Tanners Identified Hofmann Forgery (Sandra Tanner)
This is a throwback episode from 2018. Sandra & Jerald Tanner were the first to identify a Hofmann forgery. They were the first to claim the Salamander Letter was a forgery but they didn't know it was a Hofmann forgery. Even though they didn't suspect Mark Hofmann was the forger, they were eventually proved correct. Sandra tells how her husband Jerald came to that conclusion, his later illness & death from dementia, and whether she thinks some books in the Bible could be classified as forgeries. Plus at the end of the video, I'll give a preview of my next interview with Sandra! Check out our conversation...

https://youtu.be/SK_6orYOYro

Don’t miss our other conversations with Sandra: https://gospeltangents.com/people/sandra-tanner

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved
"Man Bites Dog" Story: How Anti-Mormon Critics Jerald & Sandra Tanner Were the First to Expose Mark Hofmann Forgery
Sandra Tanner is a long-time critic and historian of Mormonism. She details her interactions with the notorious document forger and murderer, Mark Hofmann. The interviews reveal a profound paradox—what Sandra Tanner called the "man bite dog story"—where the very critics who might have benefited from anti-LDS documents were the ones who first proved them to be frauds.

Here is a breakdown of the shocking discoveries, clever manipulations, and institutional controversies surrounding Hofmann, as shared by Sandra Tanner:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shrewd Forger’s Credibility Gambit
Mark Hofmann first approached Sandra Tanner and her husband, Jerald, in 1978 or 1979 after having read their book, Mormonism Shadow or Reality. At this time, Hofmann was an average-looking young man who did not stand out, which actually aided him in his forgery business.

Hofmann’s initial goal was to establish credibility for his future fakes. He visited the Tanners and handed Sandra a photocopy of a one-sheet document—a fraudulent Second Anointing Ceremony. This ritual is considered higher than celestial marriage and promises eternal life (short of murder) to select individuals.

Hofmann spun a detailed, manipulative story, claiming he found the document (purporting to be from the 1912 Salt Lake Temple period) while cleaning out his deceased grandfather's attic. He insisted he couldn't share his name because his family was prominent, thus giving the document an air of mystery and protected provenance.

Sandra Tanner realized that Hofmann was attempting to raise the document’s value by having her pass it around, creating a "trail of interest". However, because the document lacked provenance, Sandra did not publish it, though she did give copies out to people who asked, cautioning them that she could not vouch for it. This established Hofmann’s pattern: planting evidence or information about documents, often having others "find" them (like Jeff Simmonds finding the Anthon transcript pasted in a Bible) to lend them credibility.
Jerald Tanner’s Analysis: Salamander Letter Is Too "Pat"
When the Salamander Letter (a document critical of Joseph Smith, linking him to magic and the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in a magic setting) was rumored and surfaced, Jerald Tanner was skeptical. Jerald insisted on seeing the whole typescript of the letter to properly evaluate it.

Jerald’s forensic methodology was based on a prior experience: years earlier,
Show more...
3 weeks ago
1 hour 33 minutes 52 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Pregnant Possibilities: Joseph Smith’s Polygamy
A presentation titled Pregnant Possibilities was given by Mark Tensmeyer, Joseph Stanford, Amanda Hendrix-Komoto, John Kidd, & myself (Rick Bennett.) This was similar to a presentation at Sunstone & John Whitmer Historical Association in August, September, & October 2025. We tackled the question on how many children Joseph Smith should have had with his plural wives. (It is a lot less than you think!) Mark gave a history, Joseph outlined the science behind calculating pregnancy, Rick did the calculations on expected number of children & probability Joseph Smith had no children from his plural wives. John ran 1,000,000 simulations of the scenario to randomize women's cycles and coitus, and Amanda discussed birth control & abortion in the 19th century. It's a fascinating presentation that we hope to publish soon. Check out our presentation from August & October. (You may want to view on Youtube to see the slides used in the presentations.)

https://youtu.be/gL0P5F5FZcc

Don’t miss our other conversations about Joseph Smith's polygamy: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/polygamy/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved
Pregnant Possibilities
The polygamous unions of Joseph Smith in Nauvoo present historians with a persistent and colorful mystery: the apparent lack of known children fathered by Smith with any of his wives other than Emma. Clearly, Joseph Smith was fertile, having fathered nine children with Emma. This question regarding the lack of progeny was the central focus of the 2025 Sunstone Symposium session, "Pregnant Possibilities: Sexuality and Early Mormon Polygamy," which involved a multidisciplinary approach combining historical research, statistical modeling, and reproductive science.

The presentation drew on the expertise of historian Mark Tensmeyer, JD (focusing on historical claims and Joseph Smith's movements), Dr. Amanda Hendrix-Komoto (discussing abortion and birth control history), Dr. Joseph Stanford (an MD specializing in fertility and the mechanics of pregnancy), Rick Bennett (a biostatistician who hosted the session and developed the mathematical models), and Dr John Kidd (who ran 1,000,000 simulations.)
Does Marriage Equal Sex?
The puzzle of the missing children was vividly encapsulated by Joseph Smith III, who found it "incomprehensible" that his "father should have had such a crew of lusty young women as wives, and not one of them had a baby by him. Not one, not a single baby".

The presentation emphasized that while there are no identified or verified children from these plural unions, historians cannot definitively state that there were no children. Factors such as high infant mortality, stillbirth, or children who grew up under different names could account for unknown progeny.

Mark Tensmeyer examined the foundational question: Does the fact that Joseph Smith married these women mean that he was sexually active with them?. While there is direct testimony of consummation for some wives (such as Emily Partridge and Melissa Lott), for the majority, evidence is absent or scarce.

Arguments supporting consummation included the 19th-century societal norm where a marriage was often not considered complete if unconsummated. Conversely, arguments suggesting limited or no consummation centered on:

* Smith’s lack of cohabitation with many plural wiv...
Show more...
1 month ago
2 hours 14 minutes 44 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Don’t Ask Peggy Fletcher Stack’s Opinion! (4 of 4)
Today is Peggy Fletcher Stack's 40th wedding anniversary. A few months ago, I asked Peggy Fletcher Stack's opinions. Central to Peggy's thirty-plus-year career is her unwavering commitment to journalistic ethics and objectivity. Peggy has been a religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune for decades, and she tells why she doesn't like to share her opinions.

https://youtu.be/wJIVGj_2ywQ

Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

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Peggy Fletcher Stack's Opinion
She is asked daily about her personal faith but maintains it is "not for public disclosure," stating she is a "person of faith" who respects others but keeps her own private. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She actively avoids expressing personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice. This commitment means she receives criticism from all sides, even noting she gets "more hate mail than our sports reporters."

She highlights the challenge that some readers and even sources don't grasp why journalists don't simply adopt a specific viewpoint or give the LDS Church the "last word." She explains her approach to sourcing often prioritizes current "stakeholders" within a faith community for present-day issues, while respecting former members' perspectives on their personal journeys but finding them less ideal sources for current church affairs.
Dramatic Transformation in Journalism
The conversation also underscores the dramatic transformation in journalism brought by the internet. Contrasting with her early freelance days in Kenya where in-person interviews and library research were essential, online resources now make research significantly easier. However, this ease has contributed to journalism becoming a 24/7 job, with constant demands and potentially less emphasis on crucial in-person reporting. Peggy cautions that younger reporters can sometimes mistake online "buzz" for broad public concern, stressing the importance of understanding what "average believers in the pew" are discussing.

Peggy also touched on the dramatic transformation in journalism due to the internet, contrasting her early freelance days in Kenya with the 24/7 nature of reporting today. While online resources make research easier, the constant demand and decreased emphasis on in-person reporting present new challenges.

Despite these challenges and the constant criticism, Peggy finds her job exciting, enjoying the process of analyzing and connecting the dots. She has no immediate plans to retire, suggesting the 2034 Olympics as a potential bookend for her career since her first story coincided with Salt Lake's losing the 1998 Olympic bid to Japan.
Why Her Faith is Off-Limits
Stepping back into the conversation with Peggy Fletcher Stack of the Salt Lake Tribune, the discussion moved beyond her career origins to highlight the core principle for Peggy is journalistic ethics and objectivity. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She gets asked daily about her own faith but maintains it's not for public disclosure, as her role is to report fairly on all faiths. She consciously avoids expressing her personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice.

She illustrated the challenge of this by describing how people, including some within the LDS Churc don't always unde...
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1 month ago

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Community of Christ, Book of Mormon, & Future (Stassi Cramm 4 of 4)
Community of Christ (CoC) President Stassi Cramm, the church's first female prophet, addressed pointed questions regarding the role of the Book of Mormon, the pursuit of consensus and faithful disagreement, her prophetic vision for the church, and the ongoing debate over infant baptism.

https://youtu.be/M6kOcByONr8

Don’t miss our other conversations with Stassi: https://gospeltangents.com/people/stassi-cramm/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

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Book of Mormon: Upholding Scripture
President Cramm emphatically denied the accusation that the Community of Christ is "moving away from the Book of Mormon.”

Key points regarding the Book of Mormon's status include:

* Official Position: The church's belief statement upholds the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants as two additional books of scripture supporting the testimony of the Bible. Cramm noted that eliminating the Book of Mormon from scripture would require rewriting this belief statement, which is not currently on the World Church Leadership Council's docket.
* Non-Creedal Approach: The perception that the Book of Mormon plays a smaller role stems from the CoC being non-creedal; they do not require members to use specific scriptures when preaching or teaching. Therefore, some congregations in the United States may never use the Book of Mormon.
* Historicity: The Community of Christ has not taken an absolute stance on the historicity of the Book of Mormon. Cramm suggested this lack of a firm requirement—unlike some who view belief in the Book of Mormon's specific historical origins as a "test of faith"—is what causes the perception that the church has "pulled away from it.”
* Translation Challenges: The CoC's version of the Book of Mormon (chaptered and versed differently than the LDS version) is not available in French and Spanish. Cramm noted that French might be the dominant language spoken globally in Community of Christ on any given Sunday morning, meaning large segments of the church lack easy access to it. This unavailability was a factor cited in the defeat of a prior resolution to put the Book of Mormon online, primarily due to significant cost associated with translation and formatting.

Cramm emphasized that regardless of historical origins, the Book of Mormon contains important gospel lessons and "long-term stories" demonstrating the continuous cycle of reaching peace only to fall apart due to human tendencies like greed and power.
Navigating Baptism and Sacramental Practice
The discussion shifted to the contentious issue of baptism. The Community of Christ practices believer's baptism for those 8 years or older. Historically, they accept baptism from other denominations only if the person was 8 or older when baptized.

* Infant Baptism Proposal: Multiple resolutions have come forward asking the President to give prayerful consideration to accepting infant baptism from other denominations for membership, followed by confirmation.
* Divisive Issue: This issue elicits very strong feelings. While many members, particularly in Europe where infant baptism is common, wish to avoid re-baptism after joining from another denomination, lifelong members argue that the Doctrine and Covenants mandates the age-eight requirement.
* Current Action: President Cramm confirmed that the church is currently engaged in an exploration process using reading material and an online survey to gather perspectives before the Presidency makes a determination.

Leadership, Consensus, & Prophetic Voice
Cramm shared her perspective on her new leadership role, which she entered at an older age than some predecessors.

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1 month ago

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Why Kirtland Temple Sale Only Buys 5 Years of Financial Stability (Stassi Cramm 3 of 4)
In a recent candid conversation, Stassi Cramm, the first female prophet of the Community of Christ, discussed the Kirtland Temple sale & highly publicized sale of historic sites. She offered insights into the church's current financial & addressed the complexities of continuing to lead a worldwide, diverse body on issues of inclusion and mission.

President Cramm, who was ordained in June 2025 and previously served nine years in the First Presidency, emphasized that her approach centers on faithful agility and discerning God's ongoing call for the church.

https://youtu.be/blYLTxtHqVk

Don’t miss our other conversations with Stassi: https://gospeltangents.com/people/stassi-cramm/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

 
Navigating Finances and Faith: An Update from Community of Christ President Stassi Cramm
In a recent candid conversation, Stassi Cramm, the first female prophet of the Community of Christ, offered insights into the church's current financial reality following the highly publicized sale of historic sites, including the Kirtland Temple, and addressed the complexities of continuing to lead a worldwide, diverse body on issues of inclusion and mission.

President Cramm, who was ordained in June 2025 and previously served nine years in the First Presidency, emphasized that her approach centers on faithful agility and discerning God's ongoing call for the church.

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The $200 Million Kirtland Temple Sale Question: Financial Stewardship
The sale of the Kirtland Temple and associated properties to the LDS Church generated almost $200 million. This revenue was immediately invested into the church's endowments, which are intended to provide some foundational income for the annual budget.

However, Cramm confirmed a widespread projection that this sale alone did not generate enough to fully endow the operations of the church into perpetuity. The current financial model still relies significantly on Worldwide Mission Tithes (tithing) as an essential element of discipleship.

Based on current trends, if the number of financial supporters continues to slowly decline, the Community of Christ will face additional financial questions around the year 2030.

Cramm noted that the church's leaders, including the Council of 12 and the Presiding Bishopric, are focused on defining what the church "needs to be" in the future. The goal is not merely to keep the lights on, but to do so while faithfully being who God needs them to be in the world.

This strategy involves:

* Fostering new communities of disciples committed to the church's mission.
* Engaging in social ministries and justice activities.
* Empowering new forms of leadership from younger generations.
* Innovating stewardship, including looking at different investment strategies and business ventures aligned with the church’s mission.

President Cramm concluded that success must be measured in faithfulness terms, rather than "worldly terms" like turning a profit or hitting a specific number of members in the pews.

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Inclusion, Ordination, and the Gay Apostle Question
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1 month ago
35 minutes 9 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
1088: Why We Sold the Kirtland Temple: A Prophet’s Perspective (Stassi Cramm 2 of 4)
We’re discussing 2 controversial topics with Stassi Cramm, President of the Community of Christ. We’ll focus on the controversial sale of Kirtland Temple, as well as the schism that followed the 1984 revelation on women's ordination. Which was more controversial? Check out our conversation...

Don't miss our other conversations with Stassi: https://gospeltangents.com/people/stassi-cramm/

https://youtu.be/CIv5kq-x648

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

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1984 Schism & Its Aftermath
The 1984 revelation that allowed women to hold the priesthood led to an immediate schism within the church, which was then known as the RLDS Church. President Cramm, who was not present at the 1984 conference, describes the period as rancorous with hard feelings. Following the decision, there were significant conflicts, including debates over property ownership and padlocks being put on church doors as whole congregations pulled away from the main body of the church. The opposition was so strong that a resolution to rescind the 1984 revelation was brought forward at the 1986 conference, though it did not pass.

President Cramm contrasts this divisive experience with how the church handled the more recent, and also potentially divisive, issue of same-sex marriage in the early 2010s. Learning from the past, Church leadership approached the topic more slowly, with years of study and conversation. They developed "the principles of faithful disagreement," which allow members to hold differing opinions on church decisions without being judged as unfaithful. While the church still lost members after implementing new policies on same-gender marriage in 2013, the schism was not as severe as in 1984. Today, there are still members who do not believe women should be ordained, and some voiced their opposition to President Cramm's call at the most recent conference, which she notes is acceptable within the church's framework.
Sale of Kirtland Temple
A significant portion of the conversation addresses the recent sale of Kirtland Temple and other historic sites to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This decision was very difficult and emotional, comparable in some ways to the 1984 revelation.
Key points regarding the sale:

* Lack of Conference Vote: The decision for the sale of Kirtland Temple was made by church leadership without a vote or formal input from the World Conference delegates. This was a major point of contention for members who felt the process contradicted the principle of common consent. A resolution was brought to the most recent conference demanding that future property sales receive conference approval, but it was ruled out of order.
* Rationale for Bypassing Conference: President Cramm explained that the resolution was ruled out of order because it conflicted with the scriptural and bylaw authority granted to the First Presidency and the Presiding Bishopric to act in the church's best overall interest. She also stated that giving 2,800 delegates enough information to make an informed recommendation was not feasible, and that leadership needed to be trusted to do their difficult job.
* Negotiation Secrecy: The negotiations on sale of Kirtland Temple were conducted under a non-disclosure agreement (NDA), which President Cramm described as a mutual decision to manage how information was released. A public debate or vote would have weakened the church's negotiating position, especially since it was determined that the LDS Church was the only entity capable of providing the necessary funds while ensuring the site's continued maintenance and accessibility.
* Financial Necessity: The sale was driven by a looming financial shortfall that threatened the church's ability to function globally.
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1 month ago
27 minutes

Gospel Tangents Podcast
1st Female Prophet (Stassi Cramm 1 of 4)
Stassi Cramm is the 1st female Prophet-President of the Community of Christ. I asked her to reflect back on the 1984 revelation that granted priesthood to women and her time as a lifelong member of Community of Christ. Was it hard? Check out our conversation...

https://youtu.be/OjtLJ-FG988

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

0:00 Meet Stassi Cramm
4:32 Women Get Priesthood in 1984 Revelation
17:28 Diverse Agreement
Look Back at 1984 Revelation on Women's Ordination
Stassi Cramm, is the first female President of the Community of Christ. In 1984, was a young adult just starting her career in Southern California when the Community of Christ (then the RLDS Church) experienced a pivotal moment in its history: a revelation was presented that, among other things, opened the door for women to be ordained to the priesthood. For many, it was a moment of profound rightness. For others, it was a deeply divisive decision that would reshape the church for years to come.

She recalls being "oblivious" to the years of study and conversation that led to this moment, as she had been busy with university and her new job. She wasn't at the 1984 World Conference where this new scripture, now Section 156 of the Community of Christ Doctrine and Covenants, was approved. News traveled slowly back then, through weekly long-distance phone calls and reports from conference attendees returning home.
A Sense of Rightness Amidst Division
When President Cramm finally read the new revelation, her reaction was immediate. "For me, there was this immediate sense of rightness to it and this sense of course! Why hadn't I thought of this before?" she recalls. She expresses a retrospective sense of shame that, as a woman in the male-dominated field of flight test engineering, she hadn't previously recognized the "lack of equal opportunity for leadership and service" in her own church.

However, she soon learned of the "divisive nature" of the decision. People had walked out of the conference in protest, and the revelation sparked a schism within the church. Congregations split. Padlocks were put on church doors, and debates raged over property ownership. President Cramm's own congregation in Lancaster, California, handled the change well. But the wider church felt the strain.
Personal Cost of a Calling
Two years later, in 1986, Stassi Cramm received her first call to the priesthood. She remembers the vulnerability of that moment, standing before her stake conference as some members, including people she considered friends, raised their hands in opposition.

"It's hard. You feel vulnerable anyways when you're accepting a call. And so when there’s a group of people who raise their hand against you, intellectually you understand it. Emotionally you feel it".

She credits the very first women who were ordained as her heroes, calling them "amazing path makers" who endured verbal criticism with humility and faithfulness. For herself, she chose to live in the difficult space of maintaining friendships with those who disagreed, recognizing that differing perspectives on whether the revelation was "of God" shouldn't sever their ability to be friends. This, she notes, is where Christlike love becomes a conscious choice, not a feeling—a choice to respect others' opinions even when you don't share them.
Navigating Faithful Disagreement
This experience highlights a core aspect of the Community of Christ's culture: navigating faithful disagreement. President Cramm later moved to a congregation in Las Vegas where a group remained opposed to women in the priesthood. The congregation found a way to coexist, making small accommodations for one another. For example, if a woman said the communion prayer, a male priesthood member would serve the sacrament to those who o...
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1 month ago
20 minutes 56 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
JWHA Recap 2025-Whirlwind Trip to John Whitmer Historical Association Conference!
Here is my JWHA recap 2025! I'll show photos and give my reactions to the award winners! Check it out!

Don’t miss our other Tangent Trips! https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/gt-trips/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

https://youtu.be/NL_LkWQBApk

Fresh off the plane from Kansas City, I wanted to share a recap of my fantastic, albeit hectic, week at the John Whitmer Historical Association (JWHA) meetings in Independence. It’s been a whirlwind of travel lately—from Atlanta to Canada and then straight to JWHA—but the experience was absolutely worth it.
Honoring Legends and Celebrating New Works
The awards ceremony was a major highlight, celebrating the brilliant minds in Mormon History. A truly special moment was seeing Mark Staker, this year's JWHA president, present Grant McMurray with a Lifetime Achievement Award. Grant, a former president of the Community of Christ and one of the founders of JWHA 50 years ago, was in high spirits despite being in a wheelchair, which I hadn't seen before. He joked that with a Lifetime Achievement Award, he didn't need to do anything else in his life, which got a good laugh from everyone.

Congratulations are also in order for several other award winners:

* Matt Harris, the incoming JWHA president, deservedly won the Best Book Award for his incredible book, Second Class Saints. It was great to see him presented with the award. His mother attended the conference too!
* Jason Smith, who runs the JWHA podcast, received the Excellence in Leadership award.
* Cristina Gagliano (formerly Rosetti) won Best Biography for her book on Mormon fundamentalist Joseph White Musser.
* William Perez won for his article "Unholy Waters," and Ryan Davis won for his work on Mormon missionaries and popular music in Spain.
* Katie Rich and Heather Sundahl were recognized for their work on 50 Years of Exponent II. Katie Rich is clearly an impressive historian who has slipped under my radar, and I need to get her on the podcast soon!.

JWHA Recap: Presentations, Pictures, and People
The conference was packed with fascinating people and presentations. I had the opportunity to present with Mark Tensmeyer and Amanda Hendrix-Komoto on Joseph Smith's polygamy and the statistical question of how many children he should have had. We're hoping to get a group together for a follow-up discussion soon.

Unfortunately, due to scheduling conflicts, I missed several presentations I was eager to see, including those by Kyle Beshears (my favorite Baptist pastor), my good friend Newell Bringhurst, Ganesh Cherian, and Jared Halverson. Kyle, an expert on James Strang, was even passing out hilarious Nintendo 64-style stickers of Strang.

It was a joy to reconnect with so many friends and colleagues, including:

* My friend Matt Turner, who helped me with a walking tour of Independence a few years ago.
* Historians and authors like Alex Baugh, Brian Hales,
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1 month ago
30 minutes

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Mourning at Mountain Meadows (Going on a Tangent)
Today marks 168 years since the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Following last year’s JWHA conference in St George, Utah, I drove by the 4 monuments to the tragedy. Here is an in-depth account of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, an "unspeakable tragedy" that occurred on September 11, 1857. This episode is a somber reflection on this event, along with a condemnation of political and gun violence.

https://youtu.be/5MQbBi2zhwI

Don’t miss our other Tangent Trips! https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/gt-trips/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

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Context and Causes of Mountain Meadows Massacre:
In 1857, Utah was considered in rebellion by President James Buchanan, who sent the U.S. Army to put down the "Mormon rebellion". Mormons, having previously been expelled from Kirtland, Missouri, and Nauvoo, were on edge, determined not to be driven out again. Brigham Young, then a former governor, had directed Mormons not to sell supplies to immigrants because they were preparing for war. He also warned the federal government about the dangers on the immigration road if Mormons were attacked and had told Native Americans that it was "okay to steal from any immigrants".

The victims were the Fancher- Baker party, a group of about 100-120 men, women, and children from Arkansas, traveling to California with many cattle. They were denied supplies in Utah and were in the "wrong place at the wrong time".
Mountain Meadows Massacre Events:

* The conflict began around September 7th when Mormons, who had enlisted Native Americans, attempted to raid the immigrants' cattle. An initial scuffle resulted in a Mormon shooting and killing one immigrant.
* The Baker-Fancher party circled their wagons, forming a defensive fortification.
* To cover up the initial murder and prevent witnesses, local Mormon leaders decided to kill everyone.
* The party was under siege for several days, running low on ammunition and food, and being shot at when they tried to get water from a spring.
* John D. Lee, a Mormon, pretended to be a negotiator and came under a white flag of truce. He persuaded the immigrants to surrender their guns, promising safe passage.
* The men were separated from the women, children, and sick. A signal, possibly "halt" followed by "do your duty," was given. Mormon men shot the Fancher men next to them. The women and children were also killed, as they didn't want any witnesses.
* Approximately 96 to 120 men, women, and children were killed. Seventeen small children survived because they were deemed too young to "tell tales".

Aftermath and Memorials:
The Mountain Meadows Massacre is considered the "worst chapter in LDS history".

* John D. Lee was the only person convicted (and executed) for his role in the massacre. He was tried in Beaver, Utah, in two trials (1875 and 1876), with the second resulting in his conviction by an all-Mormon jury. He was executed by firing squad at the massacre site on March 23, 1877, almost 20 years after the event.
* The LDS Church later purchased the land and worked with the federal government to establish it as a National Historic Landmark.
* The site includes several memorials:

    ◦ The Overlook Monument:
The monument features a wall with the names of many victims. It also has lookout points to identify the Men and Boys' Memorial, Women & Children's Memorial, and the immigration campsite.
    ◦ The Gravesite Memorial:
Patterned after an 1859 cairn built by U.S. Army soldiers. It contains stones from the original cairn and crypts where the bones of 29 victims were reinterred in 1999,
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2 months ago
49 minutes 43 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Temples & Truman: Independence, Missouri’s Historic Legacy (Going on a Tangent)
Come along with me on a walking tour of Independence, Missouri! We’ll explore the historic Temple Lot Church (Hedrickites) and look at rare photographs from the Great Depression, when attempts were made to build the Jackson County Temple on the very cornerstones Joseph Smith laid in 1831. We’ll also stop by the Stone Church, the oldest church in Missouri, built by Joseph Smith III, and visit the Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

As we walk, we’ll trace the same steps once taken by Harry Truman, stopping at the United Nations Peace Plaza and the Auditorium he frequented after returning home from the presidency. Our journey will also take us to the Cutlerite Church and Temple.

It’s a unique chance to experience history, faith, and legacy all in one walk—you won’t want to miss it!

https://youtu.be/E-z1dRBPzqw

Don’t miss our other Tangent Trips! https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/gt-trips/

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved
From Zion to Truman
Join us on an extended walking tour through Independence, Missouri, a city rich with pivotal moments in both the Restoration movement and American political history. From the foundational sites of early Mormonism to the stomping grounds of President Harry S. Truman, Independence offers a unique blend of historical insights.
The Sacred Ground: Temple Lot
Our journey begins at the Temple Lot, a site dedicated by the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders on August 3, 1831. This area was envisioned as the center of Zion, a grand temple complex. Today, it’s surrounded by several significant structures, including the Community of Christ Auditorium and Temple, the LDS Stake Center, and LDS Visitor Center.

The Temple Lot Church, sometimes known as the Hedrick-ites, stands prominently. This site has seen its share of trials; the first and second churches built here were both tragically destroyed by fire. A particularly heartbreaking incident in 1990 saw a former member reportedly burn down a church with the misguided belief that it would expedite the rebuilding of the temple. Plans for a larger temple with groundbreaking and footings were halted by the Great Depression, leaving a famous foundation hole. Interestingly, artifacts like stones, found by Otto Fetting, are on display, hinting at the never-realized Greek-style design. The envisioned temple's footprint was surprisingly small, especially compared to later temples like Nauvoo or Salt Lake.

Inside the Temple Lot Visitor Center, you can see photographs of early leaders and even a display of the Book of Commandments, a precursor to the Doctrine and Covenants, which is apparently being phased out of print and may be de-canonized.
Architectural and Spiritual Diversity:
Other Churches of Independence

Just a short distance away, we visit the Stone Church, which stands as the oldest church in Missouri built by Joseph Smith III. Its interior, with its large pipe organ, impressive stained-glass windows, and wooden pillars, might remind visitors of the Salt Lake Tabernacle, albeit on a smaller scale.

The Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has its headquarters in the former Chrisman High School, a building that also operates a lunch program for the homeless.

A particularly unique stop is the Cutlerite Church, established by Alpheus Cutler in 1853. This small denomination, with fewer than a dozen members (most over 70),
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2 months ago
49 minutes 49 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
JFS Book Give Away 2025!
Unannounced Live
Gospel Tangents recently surprised viewers with an unannounced live stream including a JFS book giveaway. This is a "late night edition" that offers a whirlwind update on my extensive travels, upcoming interviews, and even some "breaking news" from the Temple Lot Church. Despite a busy travel schedule and a significant backlog of videos to edit, I managed to connect, give away a JFS book, and share exciting previews of what's to come!

https://youtu.be/Jw_a2PA5jAU
Recent Travels and Adventures
I’ve been to several significant sites related to the Latter Day Saint movement:

* Community of Christ Conference in Independence, Missouri: This "super fun trip" included reactions to Stassi Cramm being ordained the new prophet in the Community of Christ. While there, I also visited the Temple Lot Church, meeting a "Kiwi" (New Zealander) who hinted at a possible interview. I also updated my tour with video, experimenting with cell phone cameras, promising many unpublished videos from Independence.
* Mormon History Association: Following Independence, he attended the Mormon History Association, where I toured several LDS churches, including a "really old" one in Ogden and Joseph Soderberg's church, known for President Hinckley's testimony story.
* Strangites in Wisconsin: Instead of Houston, I visited the Strangites in Wisconsin, staying with former guest Bill Shepard. He also hung out with David Boice and Gary Weber, who gave me a tour of the Hill of Promise, which the Strangites consider akin to the Hill Cumorah.

◦ The Voree Plates and the Hill of Promise: Gary Weber explained that the Hill of Promise is where James Strang found the Voree record. An angel reportedly told Strang where the record was buried beneath a tree, and respected townsmen witnessed its excavation. The record, encased in stone, crumbled upon exposure to air but was translated by Strang, telling the story of the "people of Raja Ramor". It described a great war, similar to the Hill Cumorah narrative, and a pictorial representation of priesthood structure mirroring that under Joseph Smith and James Strang.

◦ Prophetic Significance: The Hill of Promise is also sacred because Strang's revelations state that Daniel from the Bible will appear there someday to teach the saints and announce Christ's soon approaching second coming.

◦ Beaver Island Plans: David Boice & I visited Burlington (originally called Voree by Strang), where we saw several Strangite sites, including a plaque for a never-built temple. I’m planning a trip to Beaver Island, which was James Strang's later settlement where he was crowned king and assassinated. Gary Weber noted that there's "not a lot to see" on Beaver Island, mostly dirt roads, but a ferry or plane can take visitors there.

* Calgary/Cardston, Alberta, Canada: I flew to Calgary for my son's wedding and visited Cardston, Alberta, home to the first international temple for the LDS church. I received a book on Raymond, Alberta, a town settled by Raymond Knight (son of Newell Knight) and noted for being "practically Utah up in Canada" due to its 80% Mormon population. Cardston is compared to Manti due to its remote location and pioneer feel, with concerns about preserving its murals during an upcoming refurbishment when a new temple in Let...
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2 months ago
42 minutes 17 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Apostle & 70 Bust LDS Myths (Hamer & MacKay)
This is a rebroadcast of my 2018 interview with John Hamer & Lachlan MacKay from the Community of Christ. They'll bust some LDS myths about the Kirtland Temple, Word of Wisdom, Alice Cooper, and more! Check it out!

https://youtu.be/NjnkS1Y-tls

Copyright © 2025

Gospel Tangents

All Rights Reserved

Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission
A Journey Through Kirtland and Beyond
The early history of the Latter-day Saint movement is far richer and more complex than many realize, marked by vibrant architectural innovations, evolving theological understandings, and a dramatic succession crisis that led to the formation of numerous distinct traditions. Recent discussions with Community of Christ leaders, Apostle Lachlan MacKay and Seventy John Hamer, offer fascinating insights into this intricate past, shedding light on topics ranging from the Kirtland Temple's original appearance to the diverse interpretations of core doctrines.

John is the author of Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism.
Bust LDS Myths on Kirtland Temple: Kaleidoscope of Early Worship
The Kirtland Temple, a pivotal edifice in early Latter-day Saint history, holds a storied past, not least because of its surprising original aesthetics and a tumultuous ownership saga. When first constructed, the building did not present the pristine white façade it does today. Rather, it was designed to emulate a grand, cut-stone look, achieved through an ingenious building technique introduced by Artemus Millet.

The walls, approximately two feet thick and 45 feet high, were constructed from rubble, primarily sandstone, held together with mortar. To create the desired elegant appearance, a hard plaster or stucco finish was immediately applied to the exterior. This stucco was mixed with crushed old crockery and glass, making the surface sparkle brilliantly when struck by sunlight. Mortar joints were then painted onto the walls, giving the illusion of large, meticulously cut stone blocks from a distance. Far from white, the temple was described as "blue" in the 1830s, likely a slate gray hue. Even the wooden shingles were dipped in red lead paint for preservation, and the front doors were olive green, presenting a far more colorful structure than we envision today. This vibrant exterior, sadly, was toned down over the years due to fading, extensive patching of cracks, rust streaks from iron in the sandstone, and eventually, the removal and replacement of stucco in the 1950s, leading to its brilliant white appearance only since the 1960s.

The temple's initial function also differed significantly from modern Latter-day Saint temples. In Kirtland, it served as a public house for worship with a strong emphasis on spiritual and intellectual empowerment. Two-thirds of the temple was dedicated to classroom space, where people would attend worship on Sundays and school six days a week. It even housed the Kirtland High School, accommodating students from six years old through adulthood, making it the center of community life. This public access contrasted with the Nauvoo temple, where a tithe-payer's receipt was required for the baptismal font, a precursor to the modern temple recommend concept.

The Kirtland Temple's ownership history is equally complex, described as "a mess". Joseph Smith sometimes owned it personally and at other times on behalf of the Church. Amid financial difficulties, it was signed over to William Marks to protect it from creditors.
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2 months ago
1 hour 53 minutes 22 seconds

Gospel Tangents Podcast
Historic Vote! Stassi Cramm 1st Female Prophet-Pres of CoC!
History was made Sunday night in Independence, Missouri. The Community of Christ gathered for the election and ordination of the 1st female prophet president in Community of Christ. It was a a momentous occasion. The focus of the event was Stassi Cramm, who was anticipated to take on this significant leadership role, following Steven Veazey’s retirement. She became the 1st female prophet-president of Community of Christ, and just the 2nd female leader of a Restoration Church since Pauline Hancock.

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A New Era Begins
Independence, MO – June 1st, 2025 marked a truly historic day for the Community of Christ, as Stassi Cramm was officially ordained as the new prophet-president. This momentous event, which occurred during the Community of Christ World Conference in Independence, not only signifies a new chapter for the church but also positions Cramm as the first female prophet-president of the Community of Christ. She is also recognized as one of the few female leaders in the broader Restoration movement, following Pauline Hancock.

The atmosphere leading up to the ordination was charged with anticipation and excitement. The World Conference began with procedural matters, including a review of rules and the dissolution of the First Presidency. On May 31st, 2025, Stassi Cramm formally accepted her nomination for the role.
Road to the Vote
Throughout May 31st, caucus meetings were held to discuss the upcoming vote25. Reports from these meetings indicated strong support for Stassi Cramm. The evangelist quorum showed "full support," and in the high priest quorum, "nobody opposed," although some individuals did abstain from voting. While some anticipated that the vote might not be entirely unanimous, the overall sentiment suggested a "slam dunk.” The vote itself was scheduled for 2:00 PM Central time on June 1st, 2025.
1st Female Prophet
The ordination service itself was described as "amazing" and "spirit-filled.” Attendees enthusiastically sang "The Spirit of God Like a Fire is Burning.” There was a palpable sense of "hope" and inspiration among the congregants. The anthem "We'll Rise and we’ll Shout!" was notably sung with great passion, with the organist deeply engaged. Deb Luce remarked on the excitement, expressing that Stassi Cramm had "sparked that [hope] a little bit more" and emphasized the importance of holding onto existing doctrines.

For those who might harbor reservations about female ordination, the message was clear: "harden not your hearts" and "allow the spirit to speak.” It was also highlighted that "the voice of God is not a spirit of contention" and that "God won't divide us.”
A Legacy of Firsts
Stassi Cramm's ordination as prophet-president on June 1st, 2025, is a significant milestone, making her the first woman to hold this top leadership position in the Community of Christ. This historic occasion was eagerly awaited, with many anticipating it would be a "history making day.” As one witness to the event noted, it was "awesome" to be there for this moment. Stassi went on to reorganize the Council of 12 Apostles. With some retiring and reassigning others, 6 new apostles were called; Mareva Tchong was reassigned from President of the Apostles to become the new Presiding Evangelist (what LDS would call the Presiding Patriarch.)

It was awesome to attend World Conference and witness the 1st female prophet be ordained in the Community of Christ. I'm hoping to get Stassi Cramm on an interview in September. I hope it happens!

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Gospel Tangents Podcast
Gospel Tangents explores Mormon History, Science, Theology, and is a resource to learn more about real Mormon History by interviewing historians, scientists, experts, and authors. These podcasts will help generate future documentaries.