Recorded live from the 2025 General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Memphis, TN, Loren is joined once again by pastor and podcaster Dennis Sanders for a candid conversation about the state and future of the denomination. They reflect on what’s changed since past gatherings, the unique role and challenges of General Assembly in a time of declining attendance, and the ongoing tension between institutional loyalty and openness to diverse theological voices. From the missed opportunity of a revival resolution to the practical realities of costs, exhibitor layouts, and programming balance, Loren and Dennis bring both deep care and honest critique.  The conversation also moves beyond denominational borders—raising questions relevant to mainline and evangelical contexts alike: How should denominations engage in political advocacy when their cultural influence has waned? What would it take to be truly inclusive of conservative, moderate, and progressive voices? Where might revival come from—and how will we know it when we see it?   Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota.  A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible.  Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats.   Mentioned Resources: 🎧 Last GA Episode with Dennis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-fgenv-1476ff7 📱 Dennis instagram: @adventcelina 📖 Mixed Ecology Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/embracingthemixedecology 🌐 Ben Crosby's Substack: https://substack.com/@bencrosby 🌐 Jeff Gill's Substack: https://substack.com/@knapsack 🎧 Dennis Sanders: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-q2e35-134587d 🎧 Church and Main Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/church-and-main/id1660817140     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What does it take to start a brand-new church in one of the fastest-growing cities in the U.S.? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Drew Crowson, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Dallas planting a church in Celina, Texas—a city where 800 new residents arrive every month and there’s never been an Episcopal congregation. Drew shares his journey from growing up Baptist in East Texas, to ministry roles in Germany, the Middle East, and Alabama, to finding a spiritual home in the Anglican tradition. He explains why he believes the parish model is the future of the church, how a preschool can be a vital ministry and funding source, and the discipline it takes to keep showing up—even when no one else does. Whether you’re in church leadership, thinking about starting something new, or just curious about what it takes to plant a church in today’s cultural climate, this conversation is both honest and inspiring. They discuss: Why liturgy and the Book of Common Prayer resonate with non-liturgical Christians How to plant a church in a mainline denomination with little recent church-planting history Balancing entrepreneurial hustle with slow, patient spiritual formation The importance of pastoral boundaries for family health Building a prayer team and cultivating resilience in ministry   Drew Crowson is a church planter in the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas. Before stepping into church planting, he served in young adult and youth ministry in diverse contexts—from Dallas to Düsseldorf, Germany, an oil compound in the Middle East, and Auburn, Alabama. Deeply shaped by the early 2000s emergent church movement, his journey ultimately led him deeper into Jesus and into the Anglican tradition. Drew is married to an incredible woman, and together they are raising three young children who daily remind them of their ongoing need for grace.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Celina instagram: @adventcelina 🌐 Drew's Substack: https://substack.com/@andrewcrowson 🌐 WashPark UMC: https://www.washparkumc.org   Other Church planting episodes: 🎧 Cameron Trimble: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8siub-10d0a4d 🎧 Paula Stone Williams: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-pgxda-f59f19 🎧 Tim Morey: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-25zwi-1059d6d 🎧 Nick Warnes: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ketw5-1172f9e 🎧 Jonah Overton: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-y28bz-13457f4 🎧 Even More: https://www.podbean.com/ep/pb-wzbs7-173f5fc   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What happens when Christian faith gets filtered through purity rings, YA fiction, and pop-punk soundtracks? In this episode, co-host Martha Tatarnic welcomes writer and journalist Joelle Kidd to discuss her new book, Jesusland. Joelle shares her experiences growing up in a conservative Christian school and how the teachings she received influenced her understanding of faith, identity, and culture. This candid conversation explores the complexities of navigating a religious upbringing marked by purity culture, shame, and the impact of Christian pop culture on personal and political landscapes. Joelle reflects on the positives and negatives of her faith journey, the importance of self-ownership, and the need for a more inclusive and compassionate Christianity. Whether you were steeped in youth group culture or always felt on the outside looking in, this episode invites reflection on the messages that shaped us, and what kind of faith might lead us forward.   Topics Covered: What “Christian pop culture” really means and how it shaped Joelle’s youth The collision of capitalism, conservatism, and evangelical media How shame, purity culture, and literalist theology distort identity and faith The rise of Christian influencers, tradwives, and mega-pastor empires What the church can do differently—especially for young people today   Joelle Kidd is a writer, award-winning journalist, and editor who lives in a book-filled basement apartment in Tkaronto/Toronto. Her work has appeared in outlets such as The Walrus, This Magazine, Lit Hub, The Rumpus, and Xtra Magazine. She holds an MFA in creative writing from the University of Guelph. Jesusland is her first book.        Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow https://bsky.app/profile/joellekidd.bsky.social). 🌐 Website: https://joellekidd.com/  🎧 Mike Cosper: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-2m9ra-176f33e      Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What can we learn about the future of the church by looking back at Robert Schuller? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with sociologists Gerardo Marti and Mark Mulder about their new biography, The Church Must Grow or Perish: Robert Schuller and the Business of American Christianity. Together, they explore how Schuller’s entrepreneurial vision, drive-in worship, and architectural grandeur helped shape the megachurch model—and why his story still matters today. This wide-ranging conversation dives into Schuller’s deep pastoral commitment, his embrace of American capitalism, and the unspoken ways his model of church innovation continues to influence today’s pastors. Loren, Gerardo, and Mark also reflect on what it means to lead faithfully in a culture defined by speed, spectacle, and constant change. Topics Covered The rise and fall of Robert Schuller and the Crystal Cathedral Why Schuller’s legacy lives on in today’s church growth models How capitalism and faith became intertwined in modern ministry The unintended consequences of constant innovation Schuller’s surprising theological conservatism and deep pastoral care What “resonance” offers as a response to cultural acceleration Mark T. Mulder is Professor of Sociology at Calvin University and director of the Common Good Collective. He is the author or co-author of five books In addition, Mulder has published numerous peer-reviewed articles in academic journals, including Social Problems, Religion and American Culture, and The Journal of Urban History. He has also published pieces for church audiences and won writing awards from the Evangelical Press Association and the Associated Church Press.  Gerardo Martí is William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology at Davidson College and president of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion. A prolific and award winning author, his research explores religious innovation and the role of religion in shaping patterns of racialization and political engagement in the United States. Bluesky ‪@gerardomarti.bsky.social   Mentioned Resources: 🌐 Faculty Website: https://calvin.edu/people/mark-mulder 🌐 Faculty Website: https://www.davidson.edu/people/gerardo-marti 📖  Previous Book: https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/the-glass-church/9780813589060/ 📖  The Book: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802878557/the-church-must-grow-or-perish/ 🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/walking-into-sorrow-andrew-root-on-evangelism-in-the-age-of-despair/ 🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/ 🎧 Andrew Root: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e       Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What does faith look like in the middle of life? In this special in-person episode of podcast, co-hosts Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on the spiritual realities of middle age. Recorded together in St. Catharines, Ontario, they explore how faith changes through grief, caregiving, shifting theology, and the evolving nature of ministry. This deeply personal and thought-provoking conversation touches on everything from parenting and loss to theological mystery and sustaining joy in pastoral work. Loren and Martha offer hard-earned wisdom, honesty, and encouragement for anyone trying to live faithfully in the messy middle years of life and leadership. Topics Covered The spiritual needs of middle age (and why churches often overlook them) How grief, caregiving, and loss shape our faith What sustains ministry over the long haul Changing theological priorities after seminary Parenting teenagers and modeling faith without coercion Embracing mystery, awe, and the Spirit’s leading   Mentioned Resources: 📖  Martha's Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/whygather 📖  James Cone: https://orbisbooks.com/products/the-cross-and-the-lynching-tree 🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/walking-into-sorrow-andrew-root-on-evangelism-in-the-age-of-despair/ 🎧 Arianna Molloy: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/healthy-calling-ariana-malloy-on-burnout-purpose-and-redefining-work/ 🎧 Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/elizabeth-schrader-polczer-on-rethinking-mary-magdalene-part-1/       Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What if the most faithful act of evangelism isn’t preaching—but sitting with someone in their grief? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with theologian and returning guest Dr. Andrew Root to explore what it means to practice evangelism in an age defined by despair. Drawing from his latest book, Evangelism in the Age of Despair: Hope Beyond the Failed Promise of Happiness, Andy challenges the notion that evangelism is about strategy, persuasion, or growth—and instead reframes it as a practice of consolation. Together, Loren and Andy wrestle with the loneliness, sorrow, and disconnection of modern life. From Facebook Marketplace encounters to late-night hospital chaplaincy calls, this conversation dives deep into the spiritual significance of simply showing up and staying present with people in their suffering. They discuss: Why sorrow is "contagious"—and why that matters The mystical, communal nature of consolation How pastors and chaplains might be better theologians than academics What happens when a society loses its rituals for goodbye Why people turn to the occult when meaning is missing Whether you’re a ministry leader, chaplain, or spiritually curious, this episode will help you rethink what it means to offer hope in a world hungry for presence, not platitudes.   Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations.  His recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline, When Church Stops Working, and The Church After Innovation. Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.   Mentioned Resources: 📖  Book: https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/evangelism-in-an-age-of-despair/423470 🌐 Website: https://www.andrewroot.org 🎧 Previous Episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/ 🎧 Previous Episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e     Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant      

As seminaries face shrinking enrollments, rising costs, and shifting demographics, what models of theological education will carry the church forward? In this episode, Loren talks with Bekah Buchterkirchen, a writer, speaker, and former dean of students with nearly a decade in Christian higher education. Drawing from her experiences in seminary leadership—and as a seminary spouse—Bekah offers a thoughtful look at what’s working, what’s not, and what needs to change for theological education to stay relevant and form faithful leaders. Bekah also shares about her own spiritual rhythms as a mother and ministry partner, what she’d do if she were pope for a day, and why the legacy of Tim Keller continues to shape her hopes for the church. Together they explore: The shift away from traditional seminary students to older, working adults The growing presence of women in seminary—and the challenges they still face Creative cohort-based and hybrid models that foster both learning and community The need for deeper church-seminary partnerships and real-time ministry formation Stackable certificates, lay education, and the future of non-traditional theological training Why poor digital presence is a turnoff—and how seminaries can adapt     Bekah Buchterkirchen is a writer, speaker, and creative collaborator passionate about cultivating joy and faith in every season. With nearly a decade in Christian higher education and ministry alongside her pastor-husband, she seeks to create spaces where curiosity, hospitality, and the love of Jesus meet. She lives in the Pacific Northwest with their two, almost three, young kids and writes to encourage moms in the trenches of motherhood to seek the Lord daily—even when they feel like it's not enough.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow @bekahbuck 🌐 Website: https://www.bekahbuck.com 🎧 Arianna Malloy: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-gb5yr-18a44c5 🎧 John Hawthorne: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-zgqq8-18c307a    🎧 Ulysses Allen: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-iumm4-1502da4   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What if the path to hope isn’t found in overcoming pain, but in naming it? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Dr. May Young, Associate Professor of Biblical Studies at Taylor University and author of Walking with God Through the Valley: Recovering the Purpose of Biblical Lament. Together, they explore why lament—too often overlooked in modern Christianity—is not just a personal cry, but a prophetic act of faith. Dr. Young vulnerably shares from her own experience of heartbreak and disorientation, and how discovering the biblical practice of lament became a turning point in her spiritual life. From the Psalms to the prophets, she explains how lament gives believers a faithful way to grieve, resist injustice, and grow in spiritual resilience—even when nothing changes. Topics explored: Why biblical lament is more than venting—it's rooted in God’s character and promises How lament helps churches stand with the suffering and resist apathy Why modern worship often skips lament, and why that’s a problem How unprocessed pain from the COVID era may still be shaping us The difference between stoic acceptance and faithful sorrow What it means to trust God when healing or justice may not come on our timeline May Young (PhD, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is associate professor of biblical studies and chairs the Department of Biblical Studies, Christian Ministries, Intercultural Studies, and Philosophy at Taylor University. She has contributed to several volumes focused on lament, including Reading the Psalms Theologically (Lexham) and World Christianity and COVID-19: Discourses and Perspective (Routledge). She is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and the Society of Biblical Literature and serves on the board of directors of the Institute of Biblical Research, as well as the editorial board for Sacred Roots.   Mentioned Resources: 📖  May Young's book: https://www.ivpress.com/walking-with-god-through-the-valley 🌐  Website   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What happens when a group of women dare to follow their calling—despite being told they can’t?In this compelling episode, Martha Tatarnic speaks with documentary filmmaker Margo Guernsey about her powerful film The Philadelphia Eleven, which tells the story of the first women ordained as Episcopal priests in 1974. Margo reflects on her own evolving faith journey, the deep spiritual nature of storytelling, and how this film reignited her connection with church and community. They discuss the courage and solidarity required to challenge institutional injustice, the cost of following one's calling, and why this story of ecclesiastical disobedience remains incredibly timely today. Whether you’re in ministry or simply seeking inspiration to live more truthfully, this conversation reminds us why history matters—and how faith and justice must always walk hand in hand. Topics Covered: Margo’s journey from UCC upbringing to filmmaking as spiritual practice The groundbreaking ordination of the Philadelphia Eleven Why solidarity, trust, and long-term relationship-building matter The cost of truth-telling and challenging church hierarchy Representation, visibility, and the power of embodied leadership The importance of storytelling in shaping faith and future How churches can resist silence and engage with courage Hosting a screening and engaging your community with the film   Margo Guernsey (she/her) is a documentary Director/Producer, impact strategist, and founder of Time Travel Productions LLC. Her films include Councilwoman (America ReFramed 2019), No Time To Fail (America Reframed 2023), The Philadelphia Eleven (impact distribution 2023 - 2024 topping 500 screenings, American Public Television 2025), and THE OFFICIALS (TIME Studios, 2024). Prior to film, Margo worked as a union organizer, non-profit development director, and Spanish/English translator. Margo’s work has received support from Chicken & Egg Pictures, ITVS, Catapult Film Fund, GoodPitch, Perspective Fund, Ford Foundation, Surdna Foundation, and LEF Moving Image Fund among others; and she was a Film Independent Fast Track Fellow. She speaks both Spanish and English and holds an MFA in Film (University of Miami), an MA in History (UMass Amherst), and a BA in History (Brown University). Margo teaches producing as affiliated faculty at Emerson College and is a member of the Documentary Producers Alliance and Global Impact Producers Alliance.   Mentioned Resources: 📖  Book recommendation: Song in a Weary Throat by Rev. Dr. Pauli Murray 🌐  No Time to Fail and The Officials (Margo's films on election workers) 🌐  The Philadelphia Eleven film website 🌐  Time Travel Productions   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Raymond Chang—pastor, writer, and Executive Director of the TENx10 Collaboration at Fuller Seminary. As co-author of Future Focused Church, Raymond shares a hopeful, grounded vision for how churches can embrace change, cultivate culture, and lead the next generation with clarity and purpose. Drawing from his experience in campus ministry, global missions, and as the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, Raymond offers practical wisdom on how to engage young people, make faithful decisions, and ground all change efforts in deep discipleship. The conversation touches on everything from listening well to those who resist, to why the worship service is often the worst place to initiate change. Key Themes: Why the future of the church is still bright Spiritual postures vs. spiritual practices The long, faithful work of building congregational imagination Creating culture change, not just cosmetic change Empowering transformation teams Leading with listening and honoring those who resist Why everything should be grounded in discipleship How to manage hard decisions with grace The danger of political syncretism in the church   Raymond Chang is the executive director of the TENx10 Collaboration (part of Fuller Seminary), which is a collaborative movement that is geared toward reaching ten million young people over ten years with the gospel. He is also the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, a pastor, and a writer. Prior to his role at Fuller, Raymond served as the associate chaplain for discipleship at Wheaton College. He has worked in the for-profit and nonprofit sectors and served in the Peace Corps in Panama. He and his wife, Jessica Min Chang, are proud parents of Sophia, and they reside in Chicago.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow @raychang502  📖 Book: FutureFocusedChurch.com 🌐 TENx10.org: https://www.tenx10.org/ 🌐 Asian American Christian Collaboration: https://asianamericanchristiancollaborative.com/ 🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189       Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

How can the church learn from the newsroom? In this episode, Loren welcomes veteran journalist and media executive Suzanne Nadell to explore what faith leaders can gain from the world of communications. Drawing from her decades of experience in newsrooms across the country, Suzanne reflects on her own faith journey as a preacher’s kid, the challenge of navigating polarization, and how churches can better engage their communities by leading with grace, truth, and thoughtful storytelling. Suzanne shares lessons from her book Wired to Lead, discusses the importance of creating inclusive tables in church spaces, and reveals how spiritual practices like Sabbath and attentiveness to the Holy Spirit have shaped her in both professional and personal life. Whether you're a pastor, lay leader, or simply curious about the overlap between faith and media, this episode offers rich insights on leading well in divided times. Topics Covered: Suzanne’s faith story as a preacher’s kid who found her own faith in adulthood Lessons from the newsroom that church leaders should embrace Why churches must get out of their cultural bubbles Communicating hard truths with kindness How Sabbath is an act of trust in God Building healthier boundaries in a 24/7 world Tips for better communication and storytelling in church Why Suzanne finds inspiration in Priscilla and other overlooked women in scripture Her hope for a less politically divided and more community-rooted church Mentioned Resources: 📖 Her book: Wired to Lead 🌐 Suzanne's Website: https://suzannenadell.com/ 🌐 She Leads Church: https://www.sheleadschurch.com/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if Christian colleges—and churches—stopped being driven by fear? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren sits down (literally, in person) with sociologist and Substack writer John Hawthorne to talk about his new book The Fearless Christian University. Drawing on nearly four decades in Christian higher education, John outlines why so many institutions have slipped into what Andy Crouch calls "zombie mode"—defined more by inertia than imagination. This conversation moves fluidly between Christian universities and local churches, asking critical questions about sustainability, fear-based culture wars, institutional loyalty, and what it looks like to center the real questions of a rising generation. Together, John and Loren explore: Why Christian institutions often default to fear and control What it means to be a “zombie institution”—and how to wake up How schools and churches can move from protecting tradition to cultivating belonging The importance of legitimizing doubt and centering student (or congregant) questions Whether it's possible to hold onto theological identity without gatekeeping How online church and online education can erode or support community Why belonging may need to come before belief John Hawthorne is a sociologist who spent nearly four decades in Christian higher education. He served as faculty member and academic administrator over the course of his career, spending time in five different Christian universities. He writes a Substack that often deals with issues in Christian higher education and has been regularly interviewed for Christianity Today, Religion News Service, Sojourners, Inside Higher Ed, and the Associated Press. His publications include A First Step into a Much Larger World: The Christian University and Beyond.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow https://bsky.app/profile/jwhawthorne.bsky.social 📖 Book: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884565/the-fearless-christian-university/ 🌐 John's Substack: https://substack.com/@johnhawthorne 🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189       Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

Can your church pay the bills and follow God’s call with integrity? In this episode, Loren talks with stewardship educator and sustainability strategist Grace Duddy Pomroy about how churches can embrace bold, faithful financial models without compromising their mission. Grace offers insights drawn from her national research and latest book on reimagining how churches fund ministry—from sliding-scale rentals to community-rooted partnerships. Topics Explored: Why your mission must come before your money The spiritual practices that sustain long-term financial change How to rethink rent, real costs, and what generosity really looks like Why churches need to grieve the past to make room for the future A six-part “rocket ship” model for launching sustainable ideas The myth of quick fixes—and the value of faithful experimentation   Grace Duddy Pomroy is the Director of the Stewardship Leaders Program at Luther Seminary. She’s a lay, millennial stewardship leader, speaker, and financial educator based in Allyn, WA. She is the co-author of the stewardship book, Embracing Stewardship: How to Put Stewardship at the Heart of Your Congregation’s Life, as well as author of the free 2013 ELCA stewardship resource, “Stewards of God’s Love.” Her latest book, Funding Forward: A Pathway to More Sustainable Models for Ministry, was just released September 2024. Grace is also a consultant with Relèven, a charitable organization that lovingly preserves, restores, and repurposes under-utilized churches into community hubs and affordable housing.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow https://www.instagram.com/gracepomroy/ on Instagram 📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506493336/Funding-Forward  🌐 Funding Forward: https://faithlead.org/funding-forward  🌐 Releven: https://releven.org/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/ 🎧 Jessica Dominguez: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jessica-dominguez-on-mobilizing-churches-for-affordable-housing/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant    

What if your church property wasn’t a burden—but a blessing to your neighbors? In this episode, Loren talks with John Cleghorn about the growing movement of churches reimagining their buildings and land to address the affordable housing crisis. Drawing from firsthand experience and national trends, John explores how faith communities can embrace a new missional identity rooted in service, hospitality, and justice. Whether you’re a pastor, denominational leader, or simply wondering what’s next for the American church, this conversation offers both challenge and hope. This episode includes: How churches are transforming unused space into affordable housing The pastoral challenge of helping congregations grieve old models while embracing new vision Why engaging neighbors is essential before development The tension between mission and monetization What it means to be a church after Christendom—and why that might be good news   John Cleghorn became pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian in 2008 after 25 years in banking and journalism. He has served Caldwell as it rebounded from almost closing to become a vibrant, diverse, mission-driven congregation centered on the love and justice of Jesus Christ. His latest book, Building Belonging: The Church’s Call to Create Community and House Our Neighbors, springs from his congregation’s experience and his national research into the emerging movement of faith-based organizations building affordable housing on their property. Building Belonging blends theology and Bible study with case studies and lessons learned From the movement.  A native of Atlanta, he has lived in Charlotte since 1986 and has served on a wide array of non-profit agency boards in the religious and human services fields at the local and national levels. He is currently a board member of WFAE.  He is married to Kelly, a kindergarten teacher, and has two adult children. He holds a Doctorate in Ministry from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, a Master of Divinity from Union Presbyterian Seminary and a Bachelor of Arts from Washington and Lee University. His first book, Resurrecting Church: Where Justice and Diversity Meet Radical Welcome and Healing Hope (Fortress Press), came out in 2020.    Mentioned Resources: 📖 Book: https://www.wjkbooks.com/Products/0664268501/building-belonging.aspx 🌐 Caldwell Presbyterian: https://www.caldwellpresby.org/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/ 🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

What if burnout isn’t the end of your calling—but an invitation to reimagine it? In this episode, Loren talks with Dr. Arianna Molloy, author of Healthy Calling: From Toxic Burnout to Sustainable Work, about how our deepest exhaustion can reveal what matters most. Drawing from her own journey and years of research, Arianna offers insight for leaders, pastors, and anyone navigating seasons of vocational confusion, overwork, or transition. together, they explore how calling can be both sacred and slippery, why shame is often tied to burnout, and how to reclaim your purpose without clinging to a title.    This episode includes: The difference between a healthy calling and toxic burnout Why our job titles aren’t our true identity What to do when you feel vocationally lost How rest and reflection help realign our sense of purpose Tools for reframing shame and rediscovering joy in your work   Arianna Molloy (PhD, University of Denver) is associate professor of organizational communication at Biola University. Her research focuses on meaningful work, work as a calling, and the connection between humility and burnout in the workplace. She is an award-winning scholar and educator who has published in the International Journal of Business Communication, Communication Studies, and Christianity Today. Arianna is also a consultant for organizations, business professionals, and ministries. Arianna and her husband, Allen, have one son and enjoy running half marathons, traveling the world, and drinking good coffee.   Mentioned Resources: 📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianna-molloy-ph-d-168969246/ 🌐 Arianna's website: ariannamolloy.com. 🎧 Past episode: Pastoral Health Roundtable Episode   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.    Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What happens when your most meaningful ministry happens through a smartphone screen?  In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Bethany Peerbolte—a self-described “TikTok Pastor” and the founding leader of Our Tapestry, a fully digital church community. With over 280,000 followers online, Bethany creates content that helps people declutter harmful theology, reimagine faith, and reconnect with a God of radical love—especially in places she calls “theological deserts.” She shares how a few youth group questions during the pandemic launched her into full-time digital ministry, why she prefers “decluttering” over “deconstruction,” and how online spaces can offer real spiritual care and community. From spiritual practices to algorithms, from internet trolls to worship on Discord, Bethany reveals the joys and challenges of doing church in a platform-driven world.   Topics Covered: How TikTok launched a movement of digital pastoral care What “decluttering faith” looks like in practice The role of dreams, labyrinths, and curiosity in spiritual growth Navigating social media algorithms and resisting rage-bait The promise and peril of building sacred spaces online Why progressive Christians need to speak louder online Rev. Bethany Peerbolte is the founding pastor of Our Tapestry. This community meets entirely in digital spaces and gathers to declutter faith from abusive theology. She also creates Christian content on TikTok seeking to meet younger generations where they scroll. The stories Rev. Bethany hears from her 286,000+ followers about how churches have treated them inspires her ministry. “The zip code someone lives in should not decide what kind of God they know. Everyone deserves access to the radical love of God.” You can follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube and learn more at OurTapestry.Online.    Mentioned Resources: 📱 Follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube 🌐 Learn more or join the community at rev-bethany.com 🎧 Past episode: Ted Smith: 🎧 Past episode: Elesha Coffman:   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant      

Is progressive Christianity losing its soul by abandoning church, worship, and leadership? In this episode, Loren talks with Pastor Clint Schneckloth to explore why faith communities, worship, and theological grounding still matter in progressive spaces. Clint pushes back against the tendency to dismiss church as irrelevant or harmful, offering a vision for how ethical leadership, communal worship, and rooted faith can empower justice work rather than distract from it. He also introduces place-sharing as a model for mission and evangelism, showing how churches can engage their neighbors without compromising progressive values—or their faith commitments. In this episode, you'll hear: Why Clint wrote about Progressive Church instead of Progressive Christianity How worship fuels justice, rather than distracting from it The danger of abandoning theological foundations for the sake of inclusivity Reclaiming leadership: Ethical authority in progressive communities Place-sharing: A relational approach to mission and evangelism   Clint Schnekloth is pastor of Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas, a progressive church in the South. He is the founder of Canopy NWA (a refugee resettlement agency) and Queer Camp, and is the author of A Guidebook to Progressive Church. He blogs as Lutheran Confessions at Substack.   Mentioned Resources: 📚 A Guidebook to Progressive Church by Clint Schneckloth ✍️ Follow on Substack: Lutheran Confessions https://clintschnekloth.substack.com/🌐 Good Shepherd Lutheran Church: https://www.goodshepherdnwa.org/staff/🏳️‍🌈 Canopy NWA & Queer Camp: http://www.canopynwa.org/welcome🍲 Mutual Aid Partner: Food Not Bombs https://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant  

In this episode of the Future Christian podcast, hosts Martha and Loren engage in a personal check-in, discussing Loren's vocational transitions and the challenges of navigating ministry outside traditional roles. They then delve into the current state of Canada-US relations, exploring the emotional and economic implications of a perceived trade war. The conversation highlights the cultural identity of Canadians and the growing sense of national pride amidst external pressures, emphasizing the importance of recognizing diverse forms of ministry and leadership in a changing landscape. In this conversation, Martha and Loren explore the role of progressive Christianity in addressing contemporary political issues, the importance of empathy and mercy in sermons, and the challenges of navigating political sensitivities within congregations. They discuss the significance of music in fostering community and healing, the need for courage in leadership, and the importance of finding common ground across political divides. The conversation concludes with personal reflections on coping strategies and a shared prayer for unity and guidance.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What does it mean to be the church in anxious, divided times? Recorded in connection with the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference at Phillips Seminary, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Rev. Dr. Susan Diamond to explore how local congregations can become spaces of healing, clarity, and radical welcome. Drawing from her work with moral injury, healing circles, and the Soul Repair After Moral Injury podcast (co-hosted with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock), Susan shares how churches can recover the spiritual practices that root us in love, courage, and compassion. From forming faith through daily practices to fostering political and theological diversity under a shared mission, she offers a powerful testimony of what it means to be the church for this moment. In this episode, you'll hear: What moral injury is and how it shows up in church, healthcare, and society How healing circles are transforming congregations from the inside out Why forming faith is essential before welcoming or serving others How to foster unity across political differences through mission clarity The role of spiritual direction and communal lament in healing A hopeful vision for the future of Christianity and leadership Rev. Dr. Susan Ward Diamond is the Lead Pastor of Florence Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Florence, Kentucky, where she has served since 2015.  Susan received her Bachelor of Arts degree from Texas Christian University, a Master of Divinity degree from Brite Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio. Dr. Diamond has invested herself in ministry and mission through local, regional and general expressions of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada, throughout her 33 years of ordained ministry.  She has served on the regional boards of the Florida and Alabama-Northwest Florida regions, directed numerous youth camps and conferences, and served as a keynote speaker of retreats and assemblies around the country.  She has served her denomination as First Vice Moderator for the 2011-2013 biennium of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. During her sabbatical in 2021, Dr. Diamond and Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock collaborated on a pastoral study grant funded by the Louisville Institute entitled Moral Injury: A Catalyst for Reform.  Following the study period, they have continued their work together to offer strategies to faith communities for providing support and healing for those suffering from moral distress and moral injury.  They have recently launched the podcast Soul Repair: After Moral Injury.  Susan and Rita are currently writing a book which they hope to publish soon. Mentioned Resources: 🎙️ Rita Nakashima Brock's episode on Future Christian: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-vjamb-1871d36🎙️ Soul Repair After Moral Injury Podcast (on all major platforms)🌐 Florence Christian Church: florencechristian.org📚 Coming Soon: A book on moral injury in the church (by Susan Diamond & Rita Nakashima Brock)   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant

What if the church was never meant to be a waiting room for heaven—but a community that builds paradise now? Recorded live at Phillips Seminary during the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock to reflect on the decline of religious institutions, the collapse of reliable media, and how early Christian communities cultivated paradise on earth—not just in theory, but through shared meals, practices, and mutual care. Drawing on her groundbreaking book Saving Paradise, Brock calls for a return to rituals that ground us in community, memory, and moral accountability. In this episode, you'll hear about: The origins and impact of moral injury in war and church settings Why wisdom cannot grow in isolation—and how loneliness undermines it The role of ritual in forming resilient, embodied communities of faith Early Christianity’s focus on paradise in the here and now What Protestantism lost when it rejected communal, repetitive ritual A powerful critique of institutional silence, spiritual abuse, and the theology of “waiting for heaven” How the Eucharist once fed thousands—and why we need that vision again   Rita Nakashima Brock, Ph.D., has been Senior Vice President for Moral Injury Recovery Programs at Volunteers of America since 2017. An award-winning author, she is co-author of Saving Paradise: How Christianity Traded Love of This World for Crucifixion and Empire (2008). She held the Endowed Chair in the Humanities at Hamline University 1990-1997, then became Director of the Fellowship Program at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University. From 2001-2002 she was a fellow at the Center for Values in Public Life at Harvard Divinity School. She co-founded the Soul Repair Center at Brite Divinity School in 2012 and directed it until 2017.   Presenting Sponsor: Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.  Supporting Sponsors: Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you! Kokoro  Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.   Future Christian Team: Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer Dennis Sanders – Producer Alexander Lang - Production Assistant