Description: Today’s conversation might have you clutching your pearls and purity rings. Jen and Amy sit down with Dr. Celeste Holbrook—sexologist, educator, and author of Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture—for the candid, hilarious, and healing “sex talk” you never had but always deserved. From busting purity culture myths to unpacking women’s complicated relationship with pleasure, Dr. Holbrook shares the four “inner missionaries” that shape our approach to sex, why sexual shame runs so deep, and how to reclaim intimacy as the joyful gift it was always meant to be. Highlights include:  Unpacking women' s complicated relationship with pleasure Dr. Holbrook prescribes the best sexy-time soundtrack Review of the four inner missionaries (the Analyst, the Assassin, the Healer, and the Explorer) – the archetypes that define our individual approach to sex  Celeste reveals a surprising fact that both golf carts and ejaculate have in common How the combination of purity culture, patriarchy and capitalism are the oppression cocktail for sex And the conversation veers off course when the trio discusses an exercise that uses Jason Mamoa to evaluate their sexual ethics Thought-provoking Quotes: “When I say sex education saved my relationship, I am not being bombastic. It really did help me find myself.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “We view sex through a patriarchal lens. Media tells us how to feel about sex and what is sexy. So what is sexy has been historically white, thin, able-bodied, young… And the way that we view ourselves then says, well, what if I'm not all of those things? Am I still sexy? Is my body still OK?” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “The work for us, especially as women, is to anchor into our body to experience sensuality in order to experience sex instead of perform sex.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “We need to be inside the system in order to take down the system.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen Hatmake’s Sex MeCourse: SexEd For the Rest of Us - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101 Pantsuit Politics - https://www.instagram.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex after Purity Culture by Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://amzn.to/46StjOa For the Love of Men by Liz Plank – https://amzn.to/41JtRSS  Say Yes to Pleasure: How to Talk About Sex and Rekindle Intimacy in Midlife with Vanessa Marin – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/say-yes-to-pleasure-how-to-talk-about-sex-and-rekindle-intimacy-in-midlife-with-vanessa-marin/ A Tribe Called Quest – https://atribecalledquest.com/blogs/discography The Pleasure Club - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/https/thepleasureclub Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drcelesteholbrook/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrCelesteHolbrook/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It’s time for another beloved encore presentation and this time we are bringing back this powerful podcast therapy session for your benefit and enjoyment.  Dr. Sara Kuburic, an existential psychotherapist and author behind The @Millennial.Therapist, offers profound insights into taking ownership of our lives. Dr. Kuburic champions the idea that we are free and responsible agents, shaping our own development through our choices. While it's easy to blame external forces for unhappiness, she encourages us to embrace the amazing opportunity to engage in life fully. She poses a crucial question: how much of what we face is inflicted by us, and how much just happens? As a therapist, she equips people with tools to navigate life’s challenges, asking: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” Beyond existential thought, Jen and Dr. Kuburic explore self-loss and how we can unknowingly deceive ourselves into believing we're living the life we desire, even as our bodies signal distress through depression, anxiety, and panic. Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about: The difference between loving the "idea" of who you are versus who you actually are, and how to stop self-deception. The point when avoiding change becomes more painful than embracing it. Acknowledging our physical limits: how our bodies send red flags like anxiety, fear, or panic, even when we feel strong. How an all-consuming dedication to making something work, even if it's not right for us, can lead to our weakest moments if we don't face the truth. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that’s really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” – Dr. Sara Kuburic “Life happens to us but that’s not all that happens. We also happen to life.” – Dr, Sara Kuburic “The most pain I experienced actually came from my own participation, which included avoidance and self-deceit. I am not hard on myself because it came from such a pure place. I can’t be mad at myself. But, I also understand that it’s not something that serves me.” – Dr. Sara Kuburic “The truth is there regardless of whether or not you choose to see it. It will dictate your life until you see it. So are you safe enough in yourself to handle the truth that you are resisting or avoiding? That’s a really delicate question that we need to honor.” – Dr.  Sara Kuburic Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dr. Sara Kuburic’s “For the rest of 2025” Instagram post - https://www.instagram.com/p/C_WjH0mzF9z/ It’s On Me: Accept Hard Truths, Discover Yourself and Change Your Life by Dr. Sara Kuburic - https://amzn.to/3Uf40yf Dr. Sara Kuburic’s USA Today Column - https://www.usatoday.com/staff/7586635002/sara-kuburic/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.sara-kuburic.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/millennial.therapist/?hl=en Twitter - https://x.com/SaraKuburic Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sarakuburic/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:  In Part 2 of this episode, we push even deeper — into the personal, the creative, the brave, and the sometimes scary places we go when we dare to  tell the truth. This time, Tyler Merritt has turned the tables on Jen and he’s asking the questions!  We talk about what it’s like to be seen, judged, misunderstood — and still choose honesty. We talk about Awake and the vulnerability involved with retelling the painful and unvarnished parts of your story. We talk about fear. And we talk about the joy we’ve found in the middle of it all. So let’s jump back in. In this second installment: Jen talks about the last time that she felt truly brave and what it felt like to unearth and expose some of the most tender and personal moments of her life in such an honest and examining way Tyler asks Jen who was her best model of kindness at a young age Jen shares the song that is reflecting her current vibe in the world And Tyler asks Jen what she wishes more people understood about her Thought-provoking Quotes: "Our stories, though they may seem new, are the things that change the world." - Jen Hatmaker “What I asked myself when deciding to include or exclude something was, am I going to be proud of this five years from now? So that's five years further down the road. I'm going to be five years more mature, five years more healed, five more years of distance. Will I be proud of what I say five years from now? And I let that be my guide.” – Jen Hatmaker “It's been weird to be at that center of people's judgment for quite a long time now.  I've evolved a lot in the public eye, which is weird for everybody. It's weird for me. It's weird for people to watch. At all points along the way, I can say sincerely, I have really and truly been trying to do my best. I just wish people knew that.” – Jen Hatmaker “My story is not special and I think that's what makes it important. I hope that the readers will see their own story inside of it somewhere in some way on some level and then decide to take from mine what they need for theirs. So I can't wait to find out.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recorded live from the Oregon coast on the final day of MeCamp, this special two-part conversation between Jen and her partner Tyler Merritt is the perfect blend of hilarity, heart, and honesty. In Part 1, Jen and Tyler share stories from their MeCamp adventures — including a whale-watching excursion that got a little too close for comfort, and a near-death boat ride they’ll never forget. They also reflect on the power of personal storytelling, how vulnerability has shown up in their lives and work, and why telling the truth (even when it’s awkward) can be both healing and hilarious. Discussing the impact of Tyler's viral video "Before You Call the Cops" to Jen's reflections on her upcoming book "Awake," this conversation reveals the transformative potential of embracing vulnerability. Tune in to discover how opening up about our most personal stories can not only heal us but also inspire others to see themselves in our narratives. Tyler talks about the most awkward moment he’s ever had because he opted to be vulnerable and honest instead of protecting his pride He and Jen discuss the hardest truths they’ve ever had to tell themselves And Tyler goes back into the annals to reveal his most embarrassing moment as a performer on stage Thought-provoking Quotes: “The spirit of MeCamp almost got us killed.”– Tyler Merritt “I'm aware that it's not every day that most people see a six foot two black man with dreadlocks crying in real life. I have never regretted a single moment in my life of being transparent about how I feel emotionally with somebody. Vulnerability has never kicked back at me in a negative way.”– Tyler Merritt “I think vulnerability begets vulnerability. Because I was saying who I am and I was allowing myself to be open to the world, the world was willing to take that. What it did within the black community is it allowed a lot of other black people to begin making their own videos going, before you call the cops, I just want you to know this about me. So it opened up a door of vulnerability that really allowed that to kind of echo.”– Tyler Merritt Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Whitaker didn’t come to writing the usual way. His path began with a series of harrowing experiences in young adulthood that left him searching for tools to process trauma and find peace. As a boy, he’d found comfort in libraries, and it was there he discovered a book on writing-as-therapy that encouraged him to fictionalize his pain and set stories in places of joy. Writing became a lifeline—and the foundation for the emotionally rich characters that define his work. Chris’ personal story deeply informs his bestselling novels, including We Begin at the End and our July JHBC selection, All the Colors of the Dark, resonating with readers worldwide through their authenticity and heart. Join us as we explore his remarkable journey—from pain to page—and the healing power of storytelling. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I didn't set out to write such a sprawling, massive book. I had a simple, top line pitch and then I began writing it and it evolved into like this just epic book.” – Chris Whitaker “I thought the book's probably not going to fit neatly into a genre because life never does, you know? There might be a crime in it, but it's the least interesting thing in the book. It's going to probably be a coming of age story, definitely a story of friendship, definitely a look at family and first love and, and pirates and beekeepers as well. Obviously.” – Chris Whitaker “I wanted everything to lead somewhere. Everything that you think is a throwaway in the story, every line that seems like it doesn't quite fit, it leads somewhere. The entire story is a network that is leading you towards the answer.” – Chris Whitaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen’s post about reading All The Colors of the Dark while on a ski trip – http://bit.ly/4kVA5qt We Begin at the End by Chris Whitaker - https://amzn.to/4lrONFL Amy Einhorn, Editor - https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/people/article/93078-amy-einhorn-named-fiction-publisher-at-crown.html  The Last Child: A Novel by John Hart - https://amzn.to/4nyXcsT Nita Prose, author - https://www.nitaprose.com/ Tall Oaks by Chris Whitaker - https://amzn.to/40dYSOc A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel by John Irving - https://amzn.to/4kb8UH9 Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow: A Novel by Gabrielled Zevin Guest’s Links: Website - https://sites.prh.com/chriswhitaker Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/chriswhitakerauthor/ Twitter - https://x.com/whittyauthor Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: What happens when the faith you were raised with no longer fits? Join us as we explore faith deconstruction and what it looks like to hold on to what matters while letting go of harmful narratives. Our guest, Mary Katherine Backstrom, knows this journey well. Once rooted in evangelical certainty, her world began to unravel—her marriage, career, and faith all shaken. In her raw and hilarious memoir, Not That Wheel Jesus, MK shares what it was like to question everything, wrestle with purity culture’s impact, and walk through the grief of lost certainties. As she puts it: “I walked through the rubble, I danced in the fire pits with my friends, and I've emerged into this quiet post-apocalyptic space where I can hear my own voice.” Whether you’re navigating your own faith shift or just curious, this conversation will resonate. And don’t forget—you can leave us your thoughts at jenhatmaker.com/podcast! Thought-provoking Quotes: “Everybody I speak to that's been on a growth journey of any sort—spiritual, emotional, whatever—you get to a point where you realize that confidence comes from not knowing everything and being at peace with what you can't figure out.” – MK Backstrom “It felt like I was looking at my life and feeling  like there's so much loss here, especially my sexuality. My church robbed me of joy. And that's the opposite of what was promised. Once I realized I participated in that behavior, I was able to make amends.” – MK Backstrom  “When I walk into that [church] space, it feels like going into a home where a child experienced abuse. I don't know that that's going to leave my body for a very long time. And it doesn't mean that I'm never gonna go back, but I also listen to myself better now and I'm not going to go somewhere where my body feels like it's on fire.” – MK Backstrom “My body is still responding to everything it's experienced for 40 years in the church. And I'm finally getting to the place where I'm starting to understand what my baseline feels like.” – MK Backstrom “If there is a God worth worshiping and there's a life worth living, those things can stand up to your big questions. No God is so fragile that your human curiosity is going to break this to pieces. No problem is so big in your life that you're not gonna get up and keep moving. There's a lot of freedom after the fear. Trust the process, ask questions.” – MK Backstrom Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Holy Hot Mess: Finding God in the Details of this Weird and Wonderful Life by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/3ZV5GAi Not That Wheel, Jesus!: Stories From a Faith That Went Off-Road in the Best (and Worst) Possible Ways by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/45KbY9v Rachel Held Evans - https://rachelheldevans.com/ Searching for Sunday: Loving, Leaving, and Finding the Church by Rachel Held Evans - https://amzn.to/4lxKkRY Dallas Willard - https://dwillard.org/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Sex MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101 Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.mkbackstrom.com/ Twitter - https://x.com/mkbackstrom Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MKBackstrom TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@marykatherinebackstrom Substack - https://marykatherinebackstrom.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: We’ve got an absolute legend in the house. She's a country music powerhouse, a Grammy winner, a TV star, a best-selling cookbook author, and honestly, probably the only person who could out-sing you and out-cook you on the same day — we’re talking about the one and only Trisha Yearwood. You know this queen’s voice from classics like 'She's in Love with the Boy' and 'How Do I Live' — songs that have made us cry, and belt in our cars, and maybe text someone we shouldn’t. And now, she’s back with a brand new album called The Mirror — and let us tell you, it’s not just a comeback, it’s a reflection, literally. It’s raw, it’s real, and it’s perhaps her most vulnerable project yet. The Mirror is Trisha’s first album where she’s co-written every song, stepping into new creative territory as both a singer and songwriter. It’s a window into Trisha’s life at this moment—a culmination of decades in the spotlight, but told on her own terms. It’s not just an album—it’s a statement of identity, and an invitation to look at yourself with courage and compassion. We’re talking about life, love, growth, and how Trisha continues to reinvent herself while staying grounded in what matters. So grab a coffee, or something stronger, and get comfy — because Trisha and Jen are inviting us into their conversation on how we let go of the things that no longer fit who we are so we can embrace the things putting fresh wind at our backs. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There’s something in me that really believes in me. It has to be or I wouldn't be sitting here doing these things.”– Trisha Yearwood “I've never been a person who could answer the question, ‘where do you see yourself in the next five years?’ I just know that I'm open to the opportunities.”– Trisha Yearwood “For a long time. I let the approval part of me drive the car. I drove that car to plenty of places I was out of alignment with. I don't think I'll ever be completely rid of that voice, but she's in the backseat now. She's not driving the car anymore.”– Trisha Yearwood “Songwriting makes you instantly intimate because you're having to be really vulnerable.”– Trisha Yearwood “From a young age, a lot of women are taught that we don't get to write our own story and we don't get to take control. But you get to decide what the truth about you is and how you want your life to be.”– Trisha Yearwood Resources Mentioned in This Episode: The Mirror Album by Trisha Yearwood - https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Trisha’s Southern Kitchen on Food Network - https://www.foodnetwork.com/shows/trishas-southern-kitchen Dry Needling - https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/16542-dry-needling Frozen Shoulder in Menopause - https://bit.ly/44NNOJi Awake: a Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40Og791 Walkaway Joe - https://open.spotify.com/track/5pzoq7ggrA0GN3SMjy0NT8 She’s in Love with a Boy - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF The Song Remembers When - https://open.spotify.com/track/4dS7TYCTGKyhs9ZDt8iPcT The Bluebird Cafe - https://bluebirdcafe.com/ TalkShopLive - https://talkshop.live/channels/trishayearwood Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.trishayearwood.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/TrishaYearwood Twitter - https://x.com/TrishaYearwood Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TrishaYearwood Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw0Nn2LTsXGB0rP53Z0ACWQ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@itstrishayearwood Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Priyanka Chopra is an award-winning actor, producer, and humanitarian—and one of the most recognizable faces in the world. In this 2021 conversation, she reflects on her memoir Unfinished, sharing her journey from India to the U.S. and the lessons she’s learned about identity, ambition, and reinvention. Priyanka talks about the power of perseverance, trusting your instincts, and embracing failure as part of success. She reminds us that it's never too late to start again—and you’re always allowed to say yes to your dreams. Thought-provoking Quotes: “There is something profoundly wonderful about blooming a little later in your story. It's never too late. Everything you've done is a foundation for what you'll do next. It might not come up for a couple of years, but you will find out eventually, that made my life richer. This made my skillset better. Like nothing is ever wasted if you're doing something you're passionate about.” – Jen Hatmaker “I am at a much more confident place that the insecurities of my past don’t affect me anymore.” – Priyanka Chopra  “Anything is a possibility. You can make a career out of anything. When I was growing up, there were like five career options – you could become a doctor, or an engineer, or a lawyer, or an accountant… But now, it’s endless. It’s such a great time for all of us with ambition and desire, no matter where you are, or what your circumstances are, to invest in your dreams.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas “My feminism is equal-opportunity, the freedom to make the choices I want to make for my individual  life, just the way men have enjoyed for such a long time. That’s why its so important for us as women to talk about and normalize ambition for girls.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas “I truly believe that today is my investment for tomorrow. I hope with all of the decisions that I’m taking now, and will take in the next ten years, the girl I am at that time will be happy. That’s really my quest in my life, is the pursuit of happiness. I feel joy in my job, I feel joy in home, I feel joy in my family. I feel joy in being able to create. And I just look at it as, if you’re not happy, don’t do it. Step away from it.” – Priyanka Chopra Jonas Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Ambition is a Girl’s Best Friend: Priyanka Chopra on Reconnecting with Our Dreams - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-32/ambition-is-a-girls-best-friend-priyanka-chopra-jonas-on-reconnecting-with-our-dreams/ Unfinished by Priyanka Chopra Jonas - https://amzn.to/2Zf5ps8 73 Questions with Priyanka Chopra, Vogue - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOUV2rwMr1g Priyanka Chopra on the For the Love podcast (Youtube) - https://youtu.be/G1k83Tx6U34 It’s Okay To Be a Late Bloomer: Forbes Magazine’s Rich Karlgaard - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-17/its-okay-to-be-a-late-bloomer-forbes-magazines-rich-karlgaard/ Late Bloomers: The Power of Patience in a World Obsessed with Early Achievement by Rich Karlgaard - https://amzn.to/4kvW1IC Miss World 2000 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_World_2000 Guest’s Links: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/priyankachopra/ Twitter - https://x.com/priyankachopra Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/priyankachopra Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/PriyankaChopraLive TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@priyankachopra.fp Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention. Key highlights from this conversation include:  How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance Why are many people living  radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don't truly care about How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life How anger and joy are companion emotions The sacredness of everyday practices Thought-provoking Quotes: “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate “It's just very hard not to be cynical about everything and what I found was that I was cynical because I really, really cared. And, because I really, really cared, everything was just so overwhelming, and the easiest way to deal with that was to shut down and be cynical and be snarky. But, I realized that I had to press through and embrace what was behind that cynicism. so I had to really embrace my own earnestness and my own care in the world and concentrate on what I wanted to build rather than what I wanted to tear down.” – David Gate “It’s a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/ Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennie Garth is best known to Gen-Xers for her iconic role playing Kelly Taylor on the megahit television series Beverly Hills 90210.  Fans of the show may remember Kelly’s pivotal “I Choose Me” episode (airing thirty years ago this past May) when she stood between dreamboats Brandon and Dylan and declared that she was choosing herself.  Jennie shaped an entire era of pop culture, and now, at fifty-two, she is embracing an incredible new chapter of life—one filled with bold conversations about aging, empowerment, self-love, and the beautiful messiness of midlife. Through her thought-provoking “I Choose Me” podcast and a forthcoming memoir of the same name, Jennie is using her platform to champion other women over fifty by challenging outdated narratives around aging and sparking empowering conversations. Today, Jennie, Jen and Amy talk about what choosing yourself looks like on a normal day, and what it means to be graduate beyond our growing family years into a more independent space where a new age of self-discovery is possible because, as Jennie reminds us, choosing “you” isn’t selfish—it’s the most powerful act of self-respect. Thought-provoking Quotes: “It was through my conversations with fans, whether it was on social media. or at autograph events that I kept hearing, ‘I didn't know I could choose me until Kelly Taylor told me it was an option.’” – Jennie Garth “If I had gone to college and lived a normal life, then I would have learned things that I didn't actually end up learning until I was in my forties and fifties. So now I'm just searching like, ‘What did I miss and how can I be better? How can I learn more about myself?’” – Jennie Garth “You look around on social media and you see other people's lives and think, ‘My God, they have it all figured out.’ And I just never felt like that personally.” – Jennie Garth “Loving yourself is a journey and it’s imperative to your wellbeing.” – Jennie Garth “I don’t want to please people by being what they want me to be or fitting into this character's shoes. I love acting and I'll never not love acting. But I had to take the bull by the horns and take control of my life.” – Jennie Garth “Competition amongst women was real. It was just part of the  world I grew up in. I had to be better than the next girl. What a waste of so much precious time and energy. I used to be intimidated by other women's success or knowledge or position. I kick myself for all the years of lost opportunity of that kind of camaraderie and connection with other women. I feel it so strongly now. It's something that can never be quieted again,” – Jennie Garth Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Beverly Hills, 90210 (1990-2000) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098749/ Tori Spelling - https://www.instagram.com/p/DKAANczu145/?hl=en I Choose Me Women’s Summit 2025 - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-movement I Choose Me: Chasing Joy, Finding Purpose & Embracing Reinvention by Jennie Garth - https://amzn.to/44d8eMM Me by Jennie Garth QVC Collection - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/me-by-jennie-garth Feeding America - https://www.feedingamerica.org/partners/entertainment-council/jennie-garth American Heart Association - https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/at-the-heart-of-it-with-nancy-brown/the-power-of-positivity-with-jennie-garth Guest’s Links: Website - https://jenniegarth.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenniegarth/ Twitter - https://x.com/jenniegarth Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jenniegarth TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@officialjenniegarth Podcast - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: As a former TV producer turned novelist, Sophie Cousens’ books have been published in over 20 languages. Her previous novels—including This Time Next Year and Before I Do—have delighted readers around the world with their warmth, humor, and honest portrayal of love in all its messy, beautiful forms. Today, we sit down with Sophie to discuss her decade of experience producing some of our favorite TV shows like The Graham Norton Show and Big Brother and how that valuable experience behind the scenes in television shaped the way she now tells stories as a novelist, allowing her to thread the needle between heartfelt and funny, heartwarming and satirical. We talk about her approach to writing—does she prefer to start with a character or a plot?--as well as how she brilliantly employs a variety of  familiar rom-com setups (friends-to-lovers, missed connections, etc.) yet, they never feel overt or cliché. If you’ve ever tried to date post-divorce, juggled motherhood with figuring out who the heck you even are anymore, or questioned whether love in your 40s is even worth it—you’re going to enjoy today’s conversation about our June JHBC selection, Is She Really Going Out With Him?  With nods to fairy tales, dating apps, and the iconic Joe Jackson song that inspired the title, the book asks: how do you start over when you’re not 22 anymore—and how do you know when it’s real? Thought-provoking Quotes: “I’ve been a producer on shows that were much more produced—you've got a script, you've got a plan, you know exactly what you're getting; whereas with [Big Brother] we were just dealing with real people and real people's emotions and the experience of being in this slight madhouse.” – Sophie Cousens “Tropes are enduring because they are beloved. Sometimes, that word has a negative connotation but, in this case, it’s not true. These are story tropes that readers love. I love how you talk about them and go, no, I’m not going to steer away from them or try to reinvent them or try to avoid them. I’m going to go full-in.” – Jen Hatmaker “I absolutely love films of that 90s and 2000s era. That’s very much the tone in which I write. I think there’s something pure and simple about that era of films, which is why so many of them are enduring.” – Sophie Cousens Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Russel Howard’s Good News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00phwkz The Graham Norton Show - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006xnzc Big Brother - https://www.cbs.com/shows/big_brother/ Notting Hill (1999) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0125439/ Bridget Jones’s Diary by Helen Fielding - https://amzn.to/4dJsJ6y Just Haven’t Met You Yet by Sophie Cousens - https://amzn.to/45IC4tt And Then There Was You by Sophie Cousens COMING NOVEMBER 2025 - https://amzn.to/3Fq5SR4 Romy and Michelle’s High School Reunion (1997)  - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120032/ Claudia Jessie (Eloise Bridgerton) - https://www.instagram.com/claudiajessies/?hl=en Atmosphere: A Love Story by Taylor Jenkins Reid - https://amzn.to/4mYRzUk Great, Big, Beautiful Life by Emily Henry - https://amzn.to/43IRYTp Julia Whelan, audio narrator - https://jmwhelan.com/narrator/ The Husbands: A Novel by Holly Gramazio - https://amzn.to/4dQnNx5 Holly Bourne, author - https://hollybourne.co.uk/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.sophiecousens.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sophie_cousens/ Twitter - https://x.com/sophiecous Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sophiecousensauthor Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is a leading voice in modern faith leadership and the first woman elected to serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, a role she’s held since 2011. While the job isn’t always glamorous, she says, the sacred moments in the public eye matter deeply—and she treats them with care. Bishop Budde gained national attention for boldly speaking out against the Trump administration, including condemning the 2020 photo-op at St. John’s Episcopal Church and, more recently, offering a prayer for LGBTQ+ justice with President Trump and Vice President Vance seated before her. Her calm, courageous leadership has made her one of the most trusted voices in public faith today. In this conversation with Jen, Bishop Budde shares her journey from a small Minnesota congregation to the national stage—and how she finds the courage to speak truth to power and stand with the marginalized, even when the cost is high. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I think, in some ways, vocations choose you as much as you choose them.” – Mariann Edgar Budde “It's not as if the world stopped on January 21st. So much is happening every single day and there are consequences to the decisions being made.” – Mariann Edgar Budde “I wouldn't have chosen the way they're going, but a lot is being dismantled right now and we've got to be there to help rebuild.”  – Mariann Edgar Budde Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Raygun: Bishop Budde Fan Club T-Shirt - https://www.raygunsite.com/products/bishop-budde-fan-club Receiving Jesus: The Way of Love by Mariann Edgar Budde - https://amzn.to/45GO5jh How We Learn to Be Brave: Decisive Moments in Life and Faith by Mariann Edgar Budde - https://amzn.to/4kbZtan Sermon by The Right Rev. Mariann Edgar Budde | Washington National Cathedral, 1.21.25 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwaEuDeqM8 Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ Goodness Triumphs Through Good People: A Year-End Benediction from Bishop Michael Curry – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-39/goodness-triumphs-through-good-people-a-year-end-benediction-from-bishop-michael-curry/ Austin Channing Brown - https://austinchanning.com/ Tim Shriver - https://www.timothyshriver.com/ The Dignity Index - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/the-dignity-index Jen Hatmaker Traded Religious Rules for Spiritual Practices - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jen-hatmaker-traded-religious-rules-for-spiritual-practices/id1765227660?i=1000691362907 Building Bridges, Not Walls: Tim Shriver on Dignity that Transcends Disagreements - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/building-bridges-not-walls-tim-shriver-on-dignity-that-transcends-disagreements/ Bryan Stevenson - https://eji.org/bryan-stevenson/ I Believe in the Sun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplEEQn5znA&t=112s Guest’s Links: Website - https://edow.org/about/bishop-mariann/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mariannbudde Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/bishopmariannbudde TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mariann_edgar_budde_ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Katie Sturino is one of those people who makes you feel instantly braver just by being in the room. With her bold fashion choices, unfiltered honesty, and joyful presence online, the powerhouse founder of Megababe, style influencer, and unapologetic voice for body confidence has inspired so many of us to rethink how we see our bodies and ourselves. Her first book Body Talk, part memoir, part manifesto, focused on the all too important topic of learning to love the skin you’re in. Now, she’s back—and this time, she’s putting her hand to fiction! Of course, we wanted to talk to this multi-hyphenate about what it’s like flexing yet another new muscle. Katie and Jen talk about the inspiration behind Sunny Side Up, a book Jennifer Weiner has called a modern-day Bridget Jones’ Diary (without the toxic self-loathing) and Katie shares what the writing process was like, an experience Katie  equated to being put through a pasta machine. She and Jen also reminisce about when they first met almost a year ago—backstage at an Oprah special and the grueling decisions they grabbed with (as so many women do for such an event)—what to wear.  Thought-provoking Quotes: “I lead with solution. That is the thing that's consistent for me because I love business. I love talking to people about the businesses they wanna start, the businesses that they're running. I like solving problems.” – Katie Sturino “We love turning on a woman online. We love it—everything from Meghan Markle dancing in birthing room and Blake Lively. We just love turning on women. It’s like sport.” Katie Sturino “I don't have the MBA. I feel like most businesses that are dreamed up are done in a Harvard think tank, and I don't have that. So that's another thing that I feel insecure about, because whenever I'm up on panels or in a room full of similar founders, their stories have a really specific ladder and I'm like in my parents’ garage, you know, it's different.” – Katie Sturino “Writing this book was the hardest thing I have ever done. This was awful. I'm gonna say that out loud so that if anyone out there is like, I'm gonna write a book one day—pop that bubble! Pop that bubble! It's not you in a cozy room with a typewriter and a mug. It's like open eyeball surgery while you're awake. It's really hard.” – Katie Sturino Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Making the Shift: A new way to think about weight - https://www.weightwatchers.com/makingtheshift/ Megababe - https://megababebeauty.com/ The Deodorant Jen swears by - https://megababebeauty.com/collections/pits Sunny Side Up: A Novel by Katie Sturino - https://amzn.to/3SLK1qd Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://tressiemc.com/ Using Storytelling to Address Complex Social Issues: Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/using-storytelling-to-address-complex-social-issues-dr-tressie-mcmillan-cottom/ #SupersizeTheLook - https://www.instagram.com/explore/search/keyword/?q=%23supersizethelook Kitty & Vibe: Katie Sturino Swimsuit Collection - https://www.kittyandvibe.com/collections/sunny-side-up Guest’s Links: Website - https://megababebeauty.com/pages/about Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katiesturino/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmlgRDiOCywtaamAc5q-7VQ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@katiesturino Substack - https://katiesturino.substack.com/p/katie-sturino-writer Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/boob-sweat-with-katie-sturino/id1483683205 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, we’re revisiting a pivotal conversation that changed the course of Jen’s life and career. In 2016, during what was expected to be a routine interview with journalist Jonathan Merritt, Jen found herself speaking publicly for the first time about her views on abortion, politics, and LGBTQ+ issues—beliefs she had been wrestling with privately for over a year. While she was confident in her answers, she was unprepared for the backlash that followed. In this encore episode, Jen and Jonathan reflect on that moment and its ripple effects. Jonathan shares his own parallel journey—growing up as the son of a megachurch pastor, internalizing the “love the sinner, hate the sin” message, and later confronting his own identity as a gay man. His story, like Jen’s, became public in ways he never expected, leading him on a path of deeper truth, faith, and purpose. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You told the truth. You were ready for this interview. You had actually been doing the work for a decade to be ready to answer those questions honestly. But, your PR wasn't ready.” – Amy Hardin “The best way to live is true. No matter what you think it will cost or what it does cost you, the cost is worth the reward.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Religion News Service - https://religionnews.com/about-rns/ Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, gay marriage and more by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/jen-hatmaker-trump-black-lives-matter-gay-marriage Growing Up Evangelical and Gay with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-63/growing-up-evangelical-and-gay-with-jonathan-merritt/ My Saddest Good Friday in Memory: When Treasured Things are Dead - https://jenhatmaker.com/my-saddest-good-friday-in-memory-when-treasured-things-are-dead/ Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/how-to-create-a-politics-of-love-lisa-sharon-harper/ Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/christian-rock-star-admits-hes-gay-writes-letter-to-fans?rq=trey%20pearson Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/eugene-peterson-changing-mind-sex-issues-marriage?rq=eugene Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/leading-evangelical-ethicist-now-pro-lgbt?rq=david A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars – Jonathan Merritt -  Dr. Michael Lindsay,  Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin, Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt Twitter - https://x.com/JonathanMerritt Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JonathanMerrittWriter Substack - https://jonathanmerritt.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: With over two decades of experience in the field, Vanessa Marin is on a mission to help people break down shame, talk openly about sex, and create truly intimate relationships. As a a licensed psychotherapist, sex educator, and bestselling author of Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, which she co-wrote with her husband, Xander, Vanessa brings a candid, humorous, and deeply compassionate voice to a topic that too often stays in the dark Whether your relationship is in a rut, your spark feels a little… dim, or you just want to feel more connected—to your partner and yourself—this one’s for you. Vanessa is going to help us say yes to communication, to connection, and maybe most of all, to pleasure. Some topics we dig into: Why we have knee-jerk reactions to sex rooted in shame Why Vanessa says you should start having sex like a man The myth about the female orgasm The best things for your sex life that have nothing to do with taking off your clothes The difference between spontaneous desire versus responsive desire Thought-provoking Quotes: “Despite not getting a great introduction to sex or intimacy or relationships, I had this intuitive sense that there should be joy with this act. There should be connection and intimacy, and it should be something I should feel excited to explore when the time is right.” – Vanessa Marin “This is literally what I am here on this earth for, is to help people get more comfortable talking about sex, connection, and intimacy.” – Vanessa Marin “A lot of people hear, she's a sex therapist. They must have this incredible sex life. the reality is, we've been through ups and downs, too. ” – Vanessa Marin “We get very little, if no, actual sex education. Most of us are left with movies, and TV, and porn as our only sex education. So it's totally understandable that most of us see these scenes and think, that's what I'm looking for. That's the kind of connection I'm supposed to have with my partner. But, the reality is the way that sex looks on TV and in the movies, that's designed for entertainment. It's designed to look good and be pretty. It's not what sex really looks like in real life.” – Vanessa Marin Research has shown that in male-female relationships, women are carrying the vast majority of the mental load. There is so much that is going through our heads on a daily basis—all this tracking, and preparing, and anticipating, and evaluating, our heads are just constantly going. And when you have so much in your brain, it makes it really hard to make the space for intimacy and desire too.” – Vanessa Marin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life by Vanessa Marin and Xander Marin - https://amzn.to/43VSwnS The Sex Talks Card Deck and Guidebook: 90 Prompts to Deepen Connection and Spark Intimacy - https://amzn.to/3Hys1xa Vanessa and Xander’s Deeper Monthly Membership - https://buy.vmtherapy.com/deeper Guest’s Links: Website - https://vmtherapy.com/about Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/vanessaandxander/ Twitter - https://x.com/VMTherapy Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/vanessaandxander/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/vanessamarin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@vanessaandxander Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/vanessaandxander/_created/ Podcast - https://vmtherapy.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: KC Davis is a licensed professional counselor, an author, a speaker, and, frankly, one of the most compassionate, funny, down-to-earth voices out there. During the pandemic, she created an amazing platform called Struggle Care where she has been teaching us how to care for ourselves (and our homes) without stigma or shame. Like—if the laundry’s piled up or the dishes aren’t done, it doesn’t mean you’re lazy or broken. It just means you’re living life. It’s a gracious approach to self-care that we wildly embrace.  KC’s first book, How to Keep House While Drowning, was a total game-changer for so many women  who’ve felt overwhelmed by the everyday—and now she’s back with a brand new book called Who Deserves Your Love, helping us figure out which relationships we want to invest in, which ones need boundaries, and maybe even which ones we need to step away from.  This conversation goes to some deep places. We talk about: What mistreatment looks like in relationships, as opposed to abuse The stories that we tell ourselves about another person’s behavior when we get caught up in the vulnerability cycle What it means to be morally neutral How to use a relationship decision tree to evaluate and make decisions about a relationship And the sticky secret to enforcing boundaries With accessibility, humorous relatability, and vulnerability,  KC is here to help us navigate the messy, complicated work of loving people and loving ourselves. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Sometimes my publishers will give me some advice like, ‘Let’s project that you’re a credible expert’, meanwhile I’m shooting TikToks from the toilet.” – KC Davis “Despite being a therapist, I did not realize that I had severe postpartum depression because I didn't feel sad.” KC Davis “Messiness is not a moral failing. Either your messiness is just a part of your personality and it's pretty functional for you and you don't need to change anything and accept yourself or maybe it's because you're having a hard time.” – KC Davis “No one has ever shamed themselves into better mental health.” – KC Davis “Self-care is not the thing you do to make yourself not struggle. It is learning how to take care of yourself while you struggle.” – KC Davis Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Who Deserves Your Love: How to Create Boundaries to Start, Strengthen, or End Any Relationship by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/3GVFdfh How to Keep House While Drowning: A Gentle Approach to Cleaning and Organizing by KC Davis - https://amzn.to/43dAn4n KC Davis Resources - https://www.strugglecare.com/resources KC Davis TED Talk - How To Do Laundry When You’re Depressed - https://www.ted.com/talks/kc_davis_how_to_do_laundry_when_you_re_depressed_apr_2022 Thomas–Kilmann Conflict Styles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas%E2%80%93Kilmann_Conflict_Mode_Instrument Struggle Care - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.strugglecare.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/strugglecare Twitter - https://x.com/KCDavisSays Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/StruggleCare/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@domesticblisters Podcast - https://www.strugglecare.com/struggle-care Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:Beloved author Wade Rouse—who writes under the pen name Viola Shipman—joins Jen for a heartfelt, hilarious, and deeply insightful conversation about writing, identity, and honoring the women who shape us. Known for his evocative novels rooted in love, memory, and family, Wade shares the origin of his pen name (a tribute to his grandmother), the transition from memoir to fiction, and how Michigan became the emotional landscape for so many of his stories.In this touching episode, Jen and Wade dive into: The joy (and exhaustion) of book tours The beauty of writing from grief The fight against genre-shaming in publishing Why women’s voices in literature matter more than ever His latest novel The Page Turner, and what inspired it His upcoming project that’s giving Golden Girls a queer twist Whether you’re a book lover, an aspiring writer, or someone who believes in the power of personal stories, this episode is packed with inspiration, connection, and literary magic.Thought-Provoking Quotes:★ “My grandmother never finished high school, but she taught me to love myself unconditionally. My novels are a thank-you to her.” – Wade Rouse★ “The most fearful place in your life can also be the place you take off from.” – Wade Rouse★ “I’m not having it—genre shaming diminishes stories that speak to real people in real life.” – Wade Rouse★ “Writing is how I make sense of the world. It’s what keeps me alive.” – Wade Rouse★ “Real readers read your books.” – Jen HatmakerResources Mentioned in This Episode:➢ The Page Turner by Viola Shipman - https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-page-turner-viola-shipman/c2LjF3Fyg5p6hhsJ➢ Thank You for Being a Friend (Coming Spring 2026 from Wade Rouse) - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/thank-you-for-being-a-friend-wade-rouse?variant=43837257121826➢ On Being Jewish Now, edited by Zibby Owens – https://zibbymedia.com/products/on-being-jewish-now?srsltid=AfmBOopN4cohtpA6k7EbIWC3F0Pq7dYqivWB5s97E-e9iEtFrw4sugUH➢ Erma Bombeck –https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL➢ BookPeople in Austin, TX – https://www.bookpeople.com➢ Visit Saugatuck, MI – https://www.saugatuck.comGuest’s Links:Website – https://www.violashipman.comInstagram – https://www.instagram.com/violashipmanFacebook – https://www.facebook.com/ViolaShipmanBooksConnect with Jen!Website – https://jenhatmaker.comInstagram – https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerFacebook – https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerYouTube – https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmakerThe For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, we’re playing a few of our favorite messages and responding to what you, our listeners, have shared. Whether it’s midlife realizations, hard-won wisdom, or letting go of stuff that just isn’t serving you anymore—this is about all of us learning from each other. Thank you to Alice, Ann, Sarah, Ashley, #1 Becky and  “Badass Becky”   Also, Sydney Hatmaker said some hurtful things to us about us broadcasting our bare old lady feet on the podcast and we had to take a minute to discuss a new dress code policy. Thought-provoking Quotes: 18:00 Sometimes the tool is just language – Amy Hardin 21:00 Tools all in use but still suffering – Jen 27:00 I want to shake people and pull things over. I’m not sure that’s the appropriate response. – Jen 29:30 If we don’t counter messages, others will take over. – Jen 47:00 Make a list of your accomplishments to use for momentum – Amy 48:00 I think we are at our best in the second half of life – Jen 58:00 I want out of the rat race – Jen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Reclaiming Your Power: Moms Demand Action’s Shannon Watts on Living a Life of Passion and Purpose - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/reclaiming-your-power-moms-demand-actions-shannon-watts-on-living-a-life-of-passion-and-purpose/ Camino de Santiago - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Midlife Isn’t a Crisis, It’s a Comeback: Maddie Corman on Being Accidentally Brave - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/midlife-isnt-a-crisis-its-a-comeback-maddie-corman-on-being-accidentally-brave/ Betrayal Trauma - https://www.verywellmind.com/betrayal-trauma-causes-symptoms-impact-and-coping-5270361 Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Books by Brené Brown - https://amzn.to/3FgwnIt The Tears of Things: Living Prophetically in an Age of Outrage with Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/the-tears-of-things-living-prophetically-in-an-age-of-outrage-with-richard-rohr/ Trump administration says it’s cutting 90% of USAID foreign aid contracts - https://apnews.com/article/trump-usaid-foreign-aid-cuts-6292f48f8d4025bed0bf5c3e9d623c16 Kendra Adachi - https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/ Escaping the Productivity Trap: Kendra Adachi’s Lazy Genius Perspective - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/escaping-the-productivity-trap-kendra-adachis-lazy-genius-perspective/ Frances Mayes - https://www.francesemayes.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential observers of happiness and human nature. In addition to hosting the award-winning podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where she shares practical strategies for building a happier, healthier, more creative life, Gretchen is also the bestselling author of The Happiness Project, The Four Tendencies, Better Than Before, Life in Five Senses, and now Secrets of Adulthood, a delightful collection of her signature aphorisms—concise, thought-provoking truths gathered from her own experiences and reflections on human nature. Today, Gretchen shares a wealth of bite-sized, digestible truths with Jen and Amy that acknowledge problems everyone faces.  “What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while.” “Outer order contributes to inner calm.” “A strong voice repels as well as attracts.” “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.” And our personal favorite, “Choose the bigger life.” Gretchen also delves into the Four Tendencies and helps Jen and Amy unpack their profiles to better understand whether they are an Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel.  Anyone want to take bets? Thought-provoking Quotes: “Happier people are  more interested in the problems of the world. And they're more interested in the problems of the people around them. They're more likely to volunteer. They're more likely to vote. They're more likely to donate their time or their money. They're more likely to help out if someone needs a hand. When we're happier, we're able to turn outward and to think about the problems of the world.” – Gretchen Rubin “Action is the antidote to anxiety.” – Gretchen Rubin “There’s really no more eloquent way to put this: one of the best ways to make friends is to make friends with the friends of your friends.” – Gretchen Rubin “When we're doing something hard, it feels like the times are hard." – Gretchen Rubin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Secrets of Adulthood: Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/4kq8TzF The Happier App - https://thehappierapp.com/ David Sedaris The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/3S9OXox The Four Tendencies Quiz - https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-four-tendencies-quiz/  The English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43iUOgg The Last Samurai by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43tjDaF 5 Things Making Me Happy Newsletter - https://gretchenrubin.com/newsletter/5-things-making-me-happy-september-16-2022/ Sandwich: A Novel by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4m9KGiy Guest’s Links: Website - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/GretchenRubin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gretchenrubin Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: … We need art and beauty now more than ever We need creators to create And Jen admits to being a metaphor whore Thought-provoking Quotes: “The thing that really kept me going was writing. Writing was the way that I came home to myself.” – Maggie Smith  8:00 Nobody wants my cookbook. The next step will be call Doordash – Maggie Smith 9:00 Every decision you make is a creative decision.  10:15 I always want to grab people by the shoulders…. 13:45 Even if you’re not a writer, if you have a good therapist, they’ll probably tell you to write. 27:15 The quality of your attention in the world is your gift. 31:00 I am so grateful that people make things 35:00 I may look like I’m alone when I’m writing 35:30 I think it’s important to debunk the myth of the solo creator (similar to the tortured artist) 42:00 I would hate for people to think that fully formed poems come out. Just get it down. Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/42EPzrc Sturgill Simpson - https://sturgillsimpson.com/ Good Bones poem by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Gal2Kd Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-36/moving-forward-after-pain-rips-your-script-maggie-smith/ The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-54/the-friendships-that-save-us-maggie-smith/ The Dear Writer Book Tour - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/dear-writer-book-tour/ You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Ep8sWK Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/42yKoJi Joan Didion – https://www.joandidion.org/ My Life by Lynn Hejinian - https://amzn.to/3Eo6J40 Sayeed Jones - https://www.readsaeedjones.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maggiesmithpoet/ Twitter - https://x.com/maggiesmithpoet Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/maggiesmithpoet Substack - https://maggiesmith.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices