What is the role of solitude in Christian history? Medievalist Hetta Howes comments on the allure of enclosure, how seeking solitude supports community, and what these ancient lives reveal about our modern search for connection. “Even those moments of solitude that she’s carving for herself are surprisingly sociable.” This episode is part 1 of a 5-part series, SOLO, which explores the theological, moral, and psychological dimensions of loneliness, solitude, and being alone. Medieval Anchoresses and Women Mystics sought a life of solitude with and for God—what about their vocation might illuminate our perspectives on loneliness, isolation, and solitude today? In this episode, Hetta Howes joins Macie Bridge to explore the extraordinary lives of medieval women mystics, including Julian of Norwich and Marjorie Kempe. Drawing from her book Poet Mystic Widow Wife: The Extraordinary Lives of Medieval Women, Howes illuminates how these women lived in literal and spiritual solitude—sometimes sealed in stone anchorages, sometimes carving sacred space in the midst of family and community. Together they consider the physical and spiritual demands of enclosure, the sociable windows of anchorages, and the simultaneous human longing for both solitude and companionship. Across the centuries, these women invite us to think anew about loneliness, vocation, and the need for community—even in devotion to God. Helpful Links and Resources * Poet Mystic Widow Wife: The Extraordinary Lives of Medieval Women – Hetta Howes: [https://www.amazon.com/Poet-Mystic-Widow-Wife-Extraordinary/dp/1529419556](https://www.amazon.com/Poet-Mystic-Widow-Wife-Extraordinary/dp/1529419556) * Julian of Norwich, Revelations of Divine Love (Penguin Classics): [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/295509/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich/](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/295509/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich/) * The Book of Margery Kempe (Oxford World’s Classics): [https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-book-of-margery-kempe-9780199538362](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-book-of-margery-kempe-9780199538362) Episode Highlights 1. “An anchorage is a small cell, usually joined to a church… and the idea was that you would never leave that place alive again.” 2. “Sometimes you do come across these things and you’re like, oh, maybe the cultural consciousness was so different that they had a different language for loneliness.” 3. “Marjorie frames herself as a figure who is constantly looking for connection—sometimes finding it, but often being rejected in really painful ways.” 4. “Even those moments of solitude that she’s carving for herself are surprisingly sociable.” 5. “What I’ve learned from them is the importance of community—that even solitary professions absolutely rely on other people.” About Hetta Howes Hetta Howes is a Lecturer in Medieval and Early Modern Literature at City St. George’s, University of London. She specializes in the literature of the Middle Ages, with particular focus on medieval women writers, mysticism, and representations of gender and devotion. Her most recent book is Poet Mystic Widow Wife: The Extraordinary Lives of Medieval Women (2024). Show Notes Solitude and Sanctity * Howes introduces her research on medieval women mystics and writers (Julian of Norwich, Margery Kempe, Christine de Pizan, Marie de France). * Exploration of the anchoritic life—cells built into church walls where women lived sealed from the world. * The paradox of solitude: enclosure for God that still required connection for survival. The Anchorite’s World * Anchorages included small windows—to the church, the street, and for food—balancing isolation with limited engagement. * Guidebooks warned women against gossip and temptation, revealing anxiety about sociability and holiness. * “Why have a window to the world if you’re not ever going to converse with it?” Loneliness and Boredom * Loneliness rarely appears in medieval texts; boredom and idleness were greater concerns. * “Boredom comes up as a concept much more often than loneliness.” * Modern readers project our loneliness onto them; their silence might reveal difference, not absence. Julian and Marjorie * Julian’s quiet solitude contrasts with Marjorie’s noisy, emotional piety. * Marjorie Kempe’s “roarings” and unconventional piety challenged norms; she lived in the world but sought holiness. * “I wish you were enclosed in a house of stone”—a critique of her refusal to conform. Solitude and Community * Even in seclusion, anchorites served others—praying, advising, maintaining windows to the world. * Julian’s writings reveal care for all Christians; her solitude was intercessory, not selfish. * Howes connects medieval community to our modern digital and emotional isolation. Modern Reflections * Howes parallels her own experience of digital overload and motherhood with the medieval longing for quiet focus. * “As amazing as the digital can be, it’s eroding so much.” * She cautions against idolizing solitude but affirms its value for clarity and grounding. Production Notes * This podcast featured Hetta Howes * Interview by Macie Bridge * Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa * Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow, Emily Brookfield, and Hope Chun * A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School [https://faith.yale.edu/about](https://faith.yale.edu/about) * Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: [https://faith.yale.edu/give](https://faith.yale.edu/give)

Is technology the source or salve of social isolation? Given the realities of increasing division, the epidemic of loneliness, and unwanted isolation today, how should we think about the theological, ethical, and spiritual dimensions of the human experience of aloneness? “AI technologies aren’t capable of creating conditions in which grace can happen—it’s endemic to personhood.” This episode is part 3 of a 5-part series, SOLO, which explores the theological, moral, and psychological dimensions of loneliness, solitude, and being alone. In this episode, sociologist Felicia Wu Song joins Macie Bridge to discuss the sociology of solitude, loneliness, and isolation, framed by today’s most pressing technological challenges. Drawing from her work on digital culture and AI, Song distinguishes between isolation, loneliness, and generative solitude—what she calls “positive aloneness.” She explores how technology both connects and disconnects us, what’s lost when care becomes automated, and why the human face-to-face encounter remains vital for grace and dignity. Together they consider the allure of AI companionship, the “better-than-nothing” argument, and the church’s local, embodied role in a digitized age. Song invites listeners to rediscover curiosity, self-reflection, and the spiritual discipline of solitude as essential practices for recovering our humanity amid the noise of the crowd. Helpful Links and Resources * Felicia Wu Song, Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place in the Digital Age — [https://www.ivpress.com/restless-devices](https://www.ivpress.com/restless-devices) * Allison Pugh, The Last Human Job: The Work of Connecting in a Disconnected World — [https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691240817/the-last-human-job](https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691240817/the-last-human-job) * David Whyte, “Solace: The Art of Asking the Beautiful Question” — [https://www.amazon.com/Solace-Art-Asking-Beautiful-Question/dp/1932887377](https://www.amazon.com/Solace-Art-Asking-Beautiful-Question/dp/1932887377) * Sherry Turkle, Alone Together: Why We Expect More from Technology and Less from Each Other — [https://www.sherryturkle.com/alone-together](https://www.sherryturkle.com/alone-together) Episode Highlights 1. “Even though I study technology, I’m really interested in what it means to be human.” 2. “What happens when we have technologies that always bring the crowd? The crowd is always with us all the time.” 3. “Loneliness is the gap between what I think I should have and what I actually have.” 4. “AI technologies aren’t capable of creating conditions in which grace can happen—it’s endemic to personhood.” 5. “We should cut ourselves a lot of slack. Feeling lonely is very human. It doesn’t mean something’s wrong with me.” About Felicia Wu Song Felicia Wu Song is a sociologist, writer, and speaker, and was Professor of Sociology at Westmont College for many years. She is author of Restless Devices: Recovering Personhood, Presence, and Place in the Digital Age. Her research examines digital technology, culture, and Christian formation, exploring how contemporary media ecosystems shape our social and spiritual lives. Learn more about her work at [https://feliciawusong.com/](https://feliciawusong.com/) Show Notes Technology, Humanity, and Solitude * Song describes her sociological work at the intersection of culture, technology, and spirituality. * She reflects on how technology reshapes our sense of identity, community, and human meaning. * “Even though I study technology, I’m really interested in what it means to be human.” * The question of loneliness emerges from the expectation of constant accessibility and permanent connection. The Crowd Is Always With Us * “What happens when we have technologies that always bring the crowd?” * Song critiques how digital connectivity erases silence and solitude, making stillness feel uncomfortable. * Explores the challenge of practicing ancient spiritual disciplines like silence in the digital age. Connection and Disconnection * Song traces the historical celebration of communication technology’s power to transcend time and space. * Notes the danger of normalizing constant connectivity: “If you can do it, you should do it.” * Examines how connection can become a cultural norm that stigmatizes solitude. Defining Loneliness, Isolation, and Solitude * “Social isolation is objective; loneliness is subjective; solitude is generative.” * Distinguishes “positive aloneness” as a space for self-conversation and divine encounter. * References David Whyte and the Desert Fathers and Mothers as guides to solitude. Youth, Boredom, and the Portal of Loneliness * Discusses the value of “episodic loneliness” as a portal to self-discovery and spiritual growth. * Connects solitude to creativity and reflection through the “boredom literature.” AI, Care, and the Better-Than-Nothing Argument * Examines the emergence of AI chatbots and companionship tools. * Engages Allison Pugh’s critique of “the better-than-nothing argument.” * “It sounds altruistic, but it actually leads to deeper and deeper inequality.” * Raises justice and resource questions around replacing human teachers and therapists with chatbots. The Limits of Machine Grace * “AI technologies aren’t capable of creating conditions in which grace can happen—it’s endemic to personhood.” * Explores embodiment, dignity, and the irreplaceable value of human presence. * Critiques the assumption that “being seen” by a machine equates to being known by a person. AI, Divinity, and Projection * Notes human tendency to attribute divine or human qualities to machines. * References Sherry Turkle’s early studies on human-computer relationships. * “We are so relational that we’ll even take a clunky computer program and give it human-like qualities.” Faith, Solitude, and Social Conditions * Song emphasizes the sociological dimension: environments shape human flourishing. * “Let’s not make it so hard for people to experience solitude.” * Advocates for embodied, place-based communities as antidotes to digital disembodiment. Loneliness, Curiosity, and Grace * Encourages gentleness toward oneself in moments of loneliness. * “Feeling lonely is very human. It doesn’t mean something’s wrong with me.” * Promotes curiosity and acceptance as pathways to spiritual and personal growth. Production Notes * This podcast featured Felicia Wu Song * Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa * Hosted by Evan Rosa * Production Assistance by Hope Chun, Alexa Rollow, and Emily Brookfield * A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School — [https://faith.yale.edu/about](https://faith.yale.edu/about) * Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture — [https://faith.yale.edu/give](https://faith.yale.edu/give)

Consider human ecological loneliness and our longing for reconnection with all creation. What healing is available in an era defined by environmental loss and exploitation? Can we strengthen the fragile connection between modern society and the space we inhabit? “Loneliness is the symptom that desires its cure.” In this episode Macie Bridge welcomes writer, translator, and poet Laura Marris to reflect on her essay collection The Age of Loneliness, a meditation on solitude, grief, and the ecology of attention. Marris considers what it means to live through an era defined by environmental loss and human disconnection, yet still filled with wonder. She shares stories of tardigrades that endure extreme conditions, how airports reveal our attitudes toward birds, and the personal loss of her father that awakened her to “noticing absence.” Together, they explore how ecological loneliness might transform into longing for reconnection—not only among humans, but with the creatures and landscapes that share our world. Marris suggests that paying attention, naming, and noticing are acts of restoration. “Loneliness,” she writes, “is the symptom that desires its cure.” Episode Highlights 1. “Loneliness is the symptom that desires its cure.” 2. “There are ways, even very simple ones, that individuals can do to make the landscape around them more hospitable.” 3. “I don’t believe that humans are hardwired to exploit. There have been many societies with long traditions of mutual benefit and coexistence.” 4. “It’s really hard to notice an absence sometimes. There’s something curative about noticing absences that have been around but not acknowledged.” 5. “Ecological concerns are not a luxury. It’s actually really important to hold the line on them.” Helpful Links and Resources The Age of Loneliness by Laura Marris — [https://www.graywolfpress.org/books/age-loneliness](https://www.graywolfpress.org/books/age-loneliness) Underland by Robert Macfarlane — [https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393242140](https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393242140) E.O. Wilson on “Beware the Age of Loneliness” — [https://www.economist.com/news/2013/11/18/beware-the-age-of-loneliness](https://www.economist.com/news/2013/11/18/beware-the-age-of-loneliness) About Laura Marris Laura Marris is a writer and translator whose work spans poetry, essays, and literary translation. She is the author of The Age of Loneliness and has translated Albert Camus’s The Plague for Vintage Classics. She teaches creative writing and translation at the University at Buffalo. Show Notes The Ecology of Loneliness and Longing * Laura Marris discusses The Age of Loneliness—“Eremocene”—a term coined by E.O. Wilson to describe a speculative future of environmental isolation. * Fascination with poetic form and environmental prose emerging during the pandemic. * Ecological loneliness arises from biodiversity loss, but also offers the chance to reimagine more hospitable human landscapes. Extreme Tolerance and the Human Condition * Marris describes tardigrades as metaphors for endurance without thriving—organisms that survive extremes by pausing metabolism. * “How extremely tolerant are humans, and what are our ways of trying to be more tolerant to extreme conditions?” * Air conditioning becomes an emblem of “extreme tolerance,” mirroring human adaptation to a destabilized environment. Birds, Airports, and the Language of Blame * Marris explores how modern air travel enforces ecological loneliness by eradicating other species from its space. * She reveals hidden networks of wildlife managers and the Smithsonian’s Feather Identification Lab. * Reflects on the “Miracle on the Hudson,” where language wrongly cast geese as antagonists—“as if the birds wanted to hit the plane.” Loneliness, Solitude, and Longing * “Loneliness is solitude attached to longing that feels painful.” * Marris distinguishes solitude’s generativity from loneliness’s ache, suggesting longing can be a moral compass toward reconnection. * Personal stories of her father’s bird lists intertwine grief and ecological noticing. Ground Truthing and Community Science * Marris introduces “ground truthing”—people verifying ecological data firsthand. * She celebrates local volunteers counting birds, horseshoe crabs, and plants as acts of hope. * “Community care applies to human and more-than-human communities alike.” Toxic Landscapes and Ecological Aftermath * Marris recounts Buffalo’s industrial scars and ongoing restoration along the Niagara River. * “Toxins don’t stop at the edge of the landfill—they keep going.” * She reflects on beauty, resilience, and the return of eagles to post-industrial lands. Attention and Wonder as Advocacy * “A lot of advocacy stems from paying local attention.” * Small, attentive acts—like watching sparrows dust bathe—are forms of resistance against despair. Cure, Absence, and Continuing the Conversation * Marris resists the idea of a final “cure” for loneliness. * “Cure could be something ongoing, a process, a change in your life.” * Her annual bird counts become a continuing dialogue with her late father. Wisdom for the Lonely * “Take the time to notice what it is you’re lonely for.” * She calls for transforming loneliness into longing for a more hospitable, interdependent world. Production Notes * This podcast featured Laura Marris * Interview by Macie Bridge * Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa * Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow, Emily Brookfield, and Hope Chun * A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School [https://faith.yale.edu/about](https://faith.yale.edu/about) * Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: [https://faith.yale.edu/give](https://faith.yale.edu/give)

Theologian Miroslav Volf reflects on solitude, loneliness, and how being alone can reveal our humanity, selfhood, and relationship with God. This episode is part 1 of a 5-part series, SOLO, which explores the theological, moral, and psychological dimensions of loneliness, solitude, and being alone. “Solitude brings one back in touch with who one is—it’s how we stabilize ourselves so we know how to be ourselves with others.” Macie Bridge welcomes Miroslav for a conversation on solitude and being oneself—probing the difference between loneliness and aloneness, and the essential role of solitude in a flourishing Christian life. Reflecting on Genesis, the Incarnation, and the sensory life of faith, Volf considers how we can both embrace solitude and attend to the loneliness of others. He shares personal reflections on his mother’s daily prayer practice and how solitude grounded her in divine presence. Volf describes how solitude restores the self before God and others: “Nobody can be me instead of me.” It is possible, he suggests, that we can we rediscover the presence of God in every relationship—solitary or shared. Helpful Links and Resources * The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better Than Others Makes Us Worse [https://faith.yale.edu/resource-downloads/the-cost-of-ambition](https://faith.yale.edu/resource-downloads/the-cost-of-ambition) * Fyodor Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2554](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2554) * Rainer Maria Rilke, Book of Hours (Buch der Stunden) [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/rainer-maria-rilke](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/rainer-maria-rilke) * Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Creation and Fall [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/creation-and-fall-dietrich-bonhoeffer](https://www.harpercollins.com/products/creation-and-fall-dietrich-bonhoeffer) Episode Highlights 1. “Nobody can be me instead of me. And since I must be me, to be me well, I need times with myself.” 2. “It’s not good, in almost a metaphysical sense, for us to be alone. We aren’t ourselves when we are simply alone.” 3. “Solitude brings one back in touch with who one is—it’s how we stabilize ourselves so we know how to be ourselves with others.” 4. “Our relationship to God is mediated by our relationships to others. To honor another is to honor God.” 5. “When we attend to the loneliness of others, in some ways we tend to our own loneliness.” Show Notes Solitude, Loneliness, and Flourishing * The difference between solitude (constructive aloneness) and loneliness (diminishment of self). * COVID-19 as an amplifier of solitude and loneliness. * Volf’s experience of being alone at Yale—productive solitude without loneliness. * Loneliness as “the absence of an affirming glance.” * Aloneness as essential for self-reflection and renewal before others. Humanity, Creation, and Relationship * Adam’s solitude in Genesis as an incomplete creation—“It is not good for man to be alone.” * Human beings as fundamentally social and political. * A newborn cannot flourish without touch and gaze—relational presence is constitutive of personhood. * Solitude and communion exist in dynamic tension; both must be rightly measured. Jesus’s Solitude and Human Responsibility * Jesus withdrawing to pray as a model of sacred solitude. * Solitude allows one to “return to oneself,” guarding against being lost in the crowd. * The danger of losing selfhood in relationships, “becoming echoes of the crowd.” God, Limits, and Others * Every other person as a God-given limit—“To honor another is to honor God.” * Violating others as transgressing divine boundaries. * True spirituality as respecting the space, limit, and presence of the other. Touch, Senses, and the Church * The sensory dimension of faith—seeing, touching, being seen. * Mary’s anointing of Jesus as embodied gospel. * Rilke’s “ripe seeing”: vision as invitation and affirmation. * The church as a site of embodied presence—touch, seeing, listening as acts of communion. The Fear of Violation and the Gift of Respect * Loneliness often born from fear of being violated rather than from lack of company. * Loving another includes honoring their limit and respecting their freedom. Practical Reflections on Loneliness * Questions Volf asks himself: “Do I dare to be alone? How do I draw strength when I feel lonely?” * The paradox of social connection in a digital age—teenagers side by side, “completely disconnected.” * Love as sheer presence—“By sheer being, having a loving attitude, I relieve another’s loneliness.” The Spiritual Discipline of Solitude * Volf’s mother’s daily hour of morning prayer—learning to hear God’s voice like Samuel. * Solitude as the ground for transformation: narrating oneself before God. * “Nobody can die in my place… nobody can live my life in my place.” * Solitude as preparation for love and life in community. About Miroslav Volf Miroslav Volf is the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and Founding Director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. He is the author of Exclusion and Embrace, Flourishing: Why We Need Religion in a Globalized World, and numerous works on theology, culture, and human flourishing—most recently The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better Than Others Makes Us Worse. Production Notes - This podcast featured Miroslav Volf - Interview by Macie Bridge - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow, Emily Brookfield, and Hope Chun - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

From bipartisan cooperation to prayerful gratitude, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand joins Drew Collins to reflect on joy, wisdom, and love of enemy in a divided nation—offering a vision of public service grounded in the way of Jesus. “Jesus defied expectations—he welcomed the stranger, he fed the hungry, he loved his enemies.” Together they discuss the role of faith in public life amid deep division. Reflecting on Jesus’s call to love our enemies and the Apostle Paul’s exhortation to “rejoice always,” she describes how Scripture, prayer, and gratitude sustain her work in the U.S. Senate. From bipartisan collaboration to the challenges of resisting an authoritarian executive branch, Gillibrand speaks candidly about the challenges of embodying gentleness and compassion in politics, consistently seeking spiritual solidarity with colleagues across the aisle. Drawing on Philippians 4, she testifies to the peace of God that transcends understanding, revealing a vision of political life animated by faith, courage, and joy—all in the spirit of hope, humility, and the enduring call to love in public service. Episode Highlights * “Faith is the greatest gift you could have. It grounds me; it reminds me why I’m here and what my life is supposed to be about.” * “We can disagree about public policy, but we don’t have to be in disagreement as people.” * “Jesus defied expectations—he welcomed the stranger, he fed the hungry, he loved his enemies.” * “Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again, rejoice… let your gentleness be evident to all.” * “I pray for wisdom every day. Scripture tells us if you ask for it, you will receive it—and boy do I need it.” About Kirsten Gillibrand Kirsten Gillibrand is the U.S. Senator from New York, serving since 2009. A graduate of Dartmouth College and UCLA Law School, she has focused her legislative career on ethics reform, national security, and family policy. Grounded in her Christian faith, she seeks to model bipartisan leadership and compassionate public service. For more information, visit [https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/](https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/). Helpful Links and Resources * [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+4%3A4-9&version=NRSVUE](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+4%3A4-9&version=NRSVUE) * [https://www.redeemer.com/](https://www.redeemer.com/) * [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospel-in-life/id352660924](https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gospel-in-life/id352660924) * [https://www.senate.gov/about/officers-staff/chaplain/barry-black.htm](https://www.senate.gov/about/officers-staff/chaplain/barry-black.htm) * [https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/](https://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/) Faith and Division * Gillibrand describes America’s current political and social moment as deeply divided, weakened by retreat into ideological corners. * “We’re stronger when we work together—when people love their neighbors and care as if they were their own family.” * Faith offers grounding amid chaos; social media and tribalism breed extremism and hate. Following Jesus in Public Life * Faith clarifies her purpose and sustains her in political life. * “It makes everything make sense to me.” * Living “out of step with what’s cool, trendy, or powerful” defines Christian vocation in public office. Bipartisanship and Common Ground * Works with Senators Cynthia Lummis (R-WY) on crypto regulation, Ted Cruz (R-TX) on first responder support, and Josh Hawley (R-MO) on stock trading bans. * “If I can restore some healthcare or Meals on Wheels, I’ll go that extra mile to do that good thing.” * Collaboration as moral practice—faith expressed through policy partnership. Loving Enemies and Welcoming Strangers * Draws parallels between Jesus’s ministry and bipartisan cooperation. * “He would sooner convert a Roman soldier than go to war with him.” * “If I went to a Democratic rally and said, ‘love your enemy,’ I don’t know how that would go over.” Testifying to Faith * Weekly Bible study with Senate Chaplain Barry C. Black. * “He told us: Testify to your blessings. Share what God is doing in your life.” * Posts daily blessings on social media, mixing joy and public witness. The Faith of Democrats * Counters perception that Democrats lack faith: “There are more ordained ministers and theology degrees on our side than people realize.” * Mentions Senators Tim Kaine, Chris Coons, Raphael Warnock, Amy Klobuchar, and Lisa Blunt Rochester, all of whom regularly meet and discuss their faith and its impact on public office. Faith and Policy Differences * On reproductive rights and LGBTQ equality: “It’s not the government’s job to discriminate.” * Frames Matthew 25 as central to Democratic faith—feeding, caring, welcoming. * Compares differing theological interpretations of government’s role in justice. Joy and Gratitude * Philippians 4 as daily anchor: “Rejoice in the Lord always… let your gentleness be evident to all.” * Keeps a five-year daily gratitude journal: “You rewire your brain to look for what is praiseworthy.” * Rejoicing doesn’t deny suffering; it transforms it into solidarity. Prayer and Wisdom * Prays constantly for family, colleagues, nation, and reconciliation. * “Wisdom’s usually the one thing I ask for myself.” * Prayer as discernment: deciding “where to put my voice, effort, and relationships.” Production Notes * This podcast featured Senator Kirsten Gillibrand. * Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa. * Hosted by Evan Rosa. * Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow and Emily Brookfield. * A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School [https://faith.yale.edu/about](https://faith.yale.edu/about) * Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: [https://faith.yale.edu/give](https://faith.yale.edu/give)

“The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” Theologian R. Kendall Soulen joins Drew Collins to discuss supersessionism, the name of God (tetragrammaton), the irrevocable covenant between God and the Jews, and the enduring significance of Judaism for Christian theology. Together they explore religious and ethnic heritage, cultural identity, community, covenant, interfaith dialogue, and the ongoing implications for Christian theology and practice. They also reflect on how the Holocaust forced Christians to confront theological assumptions, how Vatican II and subsequent church statements reshaped doctrine, and why the gifts and calling of God remain irrevocable. Soulen challenges traditional readings of Scripture that erase Israel, insisting instead on a post-supersessionist framework where Jews and Gentiles bear distinct but inseparable witness to God’s faithfulness. Image Credit Marc Chagall, ”Moses with the Burning Bush”, 1966 Episode Highlights * “The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.” * “Supersessionism is the Christian belief that the Jews are no longer God’s people.” * “The Lord is God—those words preserve God’s identity and resist erasure.” * “Israel sinned. They are still Israel. That identity is irrevocable.” * “The gospel doesn’t erase the distinction between Jews and Gentiles; it reconfigures it.” About R. Kendall Soulen R. Kendall Soulen is Professor of Systematic Theology at Candler School of Theology, Emory University. A leading voice in post-supersessionist Christian theology, he has written extensively on the relationship between Christianity and Judaism, including The God of Israel and Christian Theology and Irrevocable: The Name of God and the Christian Bible. Helpful Links and Resources * R. Kendall Soulen, Irrevocable: The Name of God and the Christian Bible — [https://www.amazon.com/Irrevocable-Name-Unity-Christian-Bible/dp/B0DNWGYYK5](https://www.amazon.com/Irrevocable-Name-Unity-Christian-Bible/dp/B0DNWGYYK5) * R. Kendall Soulen, The God of Israel and Christian Theology — [https://www.amazon.com/God-Israel-Christian-Theology/dp/0800628837](https://www.amazon.com/God-Israel-Christian-Theology/dp/0800628837) * Vatican II, Nostra Aetate — [https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html](https://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html) * Michael Wyschogrod, The Body of Faith: God in the People Israel — [https://www.amazon.com/Body-Faith-God-People-Israel/dp/1568219105](https://www.amazon.com/Body-Faith-God-People-Israel/dp/1568219105) * Drew Collins, The Unique and Universal Christ — [https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481315494/the-unique-and-universal-christ/](https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481315494/the-unique-and-universal-christ/) Show Notes * R. Kendall Soulen’s formative encounters with Judaism at Yale and influence of Hans Frei and Michael Wyschogrod * Romans 9–11 as central to understanding Christianity’s relationship with Judaism * Supersessionism defined as denying Israel’s ongoing covenant with God * Impact of the Holocaust and World War II on Christian theology * Vatican II’s Nostra Aetate affirming God’s covenant with Israel remains intact * Over a billion Christians now belong to churches rejecting supersessionism * Soulen’s early work The God of Israel and Christian Theology diagnosing supersessionism in canonical narrative * Discovery of the divine name’s centrality in Scripture and its neglect in Christian interpretation * Jesus’s reverence for God’s name shaping Christian prayer and theology * Proper names as resistance to instrumentalization and fungibility * Jewish and Gentile identities as distinct yet united in Christ * Dialogue with Judaism as essential for Christian self-understanding * Post-supersessionist theology reshaping interfaith relations and Christian identity * Implications for law observance, Christian Seders, and Jewish-Gentile church life * Abrahamic faiths and typology: getting Christianity and Judaism right as foundation for interreligious dialogue Production Notes * This episode was made possible by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation * This podcast featured R. Kendall Soulen * Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa * Hosted by Evan Rosa * Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow and Emily Brookfield * A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School [https://faith.yale.edu/about](https://faith.yale.edu/about) * Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: [https://faith.yale.edu/give](https://faith.yale.edu/give)

Clinical psychologist Alexis Abernethy explores burnout, Sabbath rest, and resilience—reframing rest as spiritual practice for individuals and communities. “For me, it’s knowing that the Lord has made me as much to work as much to be and to be still and know that he is God.” On this episode, clinical psychologist Alexis Abernethy (Fuller Seminary) joins Macie Bridge to discuss burnout, Sabbath, worship, mental health, and resilience in the life of the church. Defining burnout through its dimensions of emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, and reduced sense of accomplishment, Abernethy reflects on how church life can intensify these dynamics even as it seeks to heal them. Drawing from scripture, theology, psychology, and her own experience in the Black church and academic worlds, she reorients us to Sabbath as more than self-care: a sacred practice of being still before God. Sabbath, she argues, is not a quick fix but a preventive rhythm that sustains resilience in leaders and congregations alike. Along the way, she points to the necessity of modeling rest, the impact of daily and weekly spiritual rhythms, and the communal posture that makes Sabbath transformative. Episode Highlights 1. “For me, it’s knowing that the Lord has made me as much to work as much to be and to be still and know that he is God.” 2. “Often people have overextended themselves in face of crises, other circumstances over a period of time, and it’s just not really sustainable, frankly, for anyone.” 3. “We act as if working hard and excessively is dutiful and really what the Lord wants—but that’s not what He wants.” 4. “When you are still with the Lord, you look different when you’re active.” 5. “Sabbath rest allows you to literally catch your own breath, but also then be able to see what the congregation needs.” Helpful Links and Resources That Their Work Will Be a Joy, Kurt Frederickson & Cameron Lee [https://www.amazon.com/That-Their-Work-Will-Joy/dp/080103874X](https://www.amazon.com/That-Their-Work-Will-Joy/dp/080103874X) Howard Thurman, Meditations of the Heart [https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Heart-Howard-Thurman/dp/0807010294](https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Heart-Howard-Thurman/dp/0807010294) Emily Dickinson, “Some Keep the Sabbath” (Poetry Foundation) [https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/52138/some-keep-the-sabbath-going-to-church-236](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/52138/some-keep-the-sabbath-going-to-church-236) About Alexis Abernethy Alexis Abernethy is a clinical psychologist and professor in the School of Psychology & Marriage and Family Therapy at Fuller Seminary. Her research explores the intersection of spirituality and health, with particular focus on Christian spirituality, church leadership, and group therapy models. Topics and Themes Burnout in Church Leadership and Congregational Life Defining Burnout: Emotional Exhaustion, Depersonalization, and Reduced Accomplishment Spiritual Misconceptions of Work and Duty Sabbath as Sacred Rest, Not Just Self-Care Silence, Stillness, and the Presence of God Scriptural Foundations for Sabbath: Psalm 23, Psalm 46, John 15 The Role of Pastors in Modeling Rest Pandemic Lessons for Church Rhythms and Participation Emily Dickinson and Creative Visions of Sabbath Resilience Through Sabbath: Lessons from New Orleans Pastors Practical Practices for Sabbath in Everyday Life Show Notes Exodus 20:8-11: 8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work. 10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it. Opening framing on burnout, Sabbath, and confusion about self-care Introduction of Alexis Abernethy, her background as psychologist and professor Childhood in a lineage of Methodist pastors and formative worship experiences Early academic path: Howard University, UC Berkeley, affirmation from her father Defining burnout: emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, reduced accomplishment “I’m just stuck. I used to enjoy my job.” The church as both source of fulfillment and site of burnout Misconceptions of spirituality equating overwork with duty Reference: That Their Work Will Be a Joy (Frederickson & Lee) Scriptural reflections: Psalm 23, Psalm 46, John 15 Stillness, quiet, and Howard Thurman on solitude “When you are still with the Lord, you look different when you’re active.” Sabbath as sacred rest, not a quick fix or pill Pastors modeling Sabbath for congregations, including personal family time COVID reshaping church rhythms and recalculating commitment costs Emily Dickinson’s poem “Some Keep the Sabbath” Lessons from New Orleans pastors after Hurricane Katrina Sabbath as resilience for leaders and congregations Practical steps: scripture meditation, playlists, Lectio Divina, cultivating quiet Closing invitation: Sabbath as both individual discipline and community posture Production Notes This podcast featured Alexis Abernethy Interview by Macie Bridge Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Alexa Rollow and Emily Brookfield A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School [https://faith.yale.edu/about](https://faith.yale.edu/about) Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: [https://faith.yale.edu/give](https://faith.yale.edu/give)

The Gospel of John is a gospel of superabundance. The cosmic Christ made incarnate would of course yield an absolute superabundance of grace, love, and unity. What makes John’s Gospel so distinct from the Synoptics? Why does it continue to draw readers into inexhaustible depths of meaning? In this conversation, theologian David Ford reflects on his two-decade journey writing a commentary on John. Together with Drew Collins, he explores John’s unique blend of theology, history, and literary artistry, describing it as a “gospel of superabundance” that continually invites readers to trust, to reread, and to enter into deeper life with Christ. Together they explore themes of individuality and community; friendship and love; truth, reconciliation, and unity; the tandem vision of Jesus as both cosmic and intimate; Jesus’s climactic prayer for unity in chapter 17. And ultimately the astonishing superabundance available in the person of Christ. Along the way, Ford reflects on his interfaith reading practices, his theological friendships, and the vital role of truth and love for Christian witness today. “There’s always more in John’s gospel … these big images of light and life in all its abundance.” Episode Highlights “It is a gospel for beginners. But also it’s endlessly rich, endlessly deep.” “There’s always more in John’s gospel and he has these big images of light and, life in all its abundance.” “It all culminates in love. Father, I desire that those also you, whom you have given me, may be with me.” “On the cross, evil, suffering, sin, death happened to Jesus. But Jesus happens to evil, suffering, sin, death.” “We have to go deeper into God and Jesus, deeper into community, and deeper into the world.” Show Notes David Ford on writing a commentary on John over two decades John’s Gospel compared to the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) John as theological history writing (Rudolf Schnackenburg) John’s purpose statement in chapter 20: written so that you may trust “A gospel for beginners” with simple language and cosmic depth John as a gospel of superabundance: light, life, Spirit without measure John’s focus on individuals: Nicodemus, Samaritan woman, man born blind, Martha, Mary, Lazarus The Beloved Disciple and John’s communal authorship Friendship, love, and unity in the Farewell Discourses (John 13–17) John 17 as the most profound chapter in Scripture The crisis of rewriting: scrapping 15 years of writing to begin anew Scriptural reasoning with Jews, Muslims, and Christians on John’s Gospel Wrestling with John 8 and the polemics against “the Jews” Reconciliation across divisions John’s vision of discipleship: learning, loving, praying, and living truth Helpful Links and Resources David Ford, The Gospel of John: A Theological Commentary Rudolf Schnackenburg, The Gospel According to St. John About David Ford David F. Ford is Regius Professor of Divinity Emeritus at the University of Cambridge. He has written extensively on Christian theology, interfaith engagement, and scriptural reasoning. His most recent work is The Gospel of John: A Theological Commentary (Baker Academic, 2021). Ford is co-founder of the Cambridge Interfaith Programme and the Rose Castle Foundation. Production Notes This podcast featured David Ford Interview by Drew Collins Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, and Emily Brookfield A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School [https://faith.yale.edu/about](https://faith.yale.edu/about) Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: [https://faith.yale.edu/give](https://faith.yale.edu/give) This episode was made possible in part by the generous support of the Tyndale House Foundation. For more information visit Tyndale.foundation.

Miroslav Volf critiques ambition, love of status, and superiority, offering a Christ-shaped vision of agapic love and humble glory. “’And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?’ If you received everything you have as a gift and if your existence as the recipient is also a gift, all ground for boasting is gone. Correspondingly, striving for superiority over others, seeking to make oneself better than others and glorying in that achievement, is possible only as an existential lie. It is not just a lie that all strivers and boasters tell themselves. More troublingly, that lie is part of the ideology that is the wisdom of a certain twisted and world-negating form of the world.” In Lecture 5, the final of his Gifford Lectures, Miroslav Volf offers a theological and moral vision that critiques the dominant culture of ambition, superiority, and status. Tracing the destructive consequences of Epithumic desire and the relentless “race of honors,” Volf contrasts them with agapic love—God’s self-giving, unconditional love. Drawing from Paul’s Christ hymn in Philippians 2 and philosophical insights from Rousseau, Nietzsche, and Max Scheler, Volf reveals the radical claim that striving for superiority is not merely harmful but fundamentally false. Through Christ’s self-emptying, even to the point of death, we glimpse a redefinition of glory that subverts all worldly hierarchies. The love that saves is the love that descends. In a world ravaged by competition, inequality, and devastation, Volf calls for fierce, humble, and world-affirming love—a love that mends what can be mended, and makes the world home again. **Episode Highlights** 1. “Striving for superiority over others… is possible only as an existential lie.” 2. “Jesus Christ was no less God and no less glorious at his lowest point.” 3. “To the extent that I’m striving for superiority, I cannot love myself unless I am the GOAT.” 4. “God cancels the standards of the kind of aspiration whose goal is superiority.” 5. “This is neither self-denial nor denial of the world. This is love for the world at work.” **Show Notes** - Agapic love vs. Epithemic desire and self-centered striving - “Striving for superiority… is possible only as an existential lie.” - Paul’s hymn in Philippians 2 and the “race of shame” - Rousseau: striving for superiority gives us “a multitude of bad things” - Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity and pursuit of power - Max Scheler: downward love, not upward striving - “Jesus Christ was no less God and no less glorious at his lowest point.” - Self-love as agapic: “I am entirely a gift to myself.” - Raphael’s *Transfiguration* and the chaos below - Demon possession as symbolic of systemic and spiritual powerlessness - “To the extent that I’m striving for superiority, I cannot love myself unless I am the GOAT.” - “The world is the home of God and humans together.” - God’s love affirms the dignity of even the most unlovable creature - Love as spontaneous overflow, not moral condescension - “Mending what can be mended… mourning with those who mourn and dancing with those who rejoice.” **Production Notes** - This podcast featured Miroslav Volf - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Taylor Craig and Macie Bridge - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give - Special thanks to Dr. Paul Nimmo, Paula Duncan, and the media team at the University of Aberdeen. Thanks also to the Templeton Religion Trust for their support of the University of Aberdeen’s 2025 Gifford Lectures and to the McDonald Agape Foundation for supporting Miroslav’s research towards the lectureship.

Miroslav Volf explores agapic love, creation’s goodness, and God’s grief—an alternative to despair, power, and world rejection. “When a wanted child is born, the immense joy of many parents often renders them mute, but their radiant faces speak of surprised delight: ‘Just look at you! It is so very good that you are here!’ This delight precedes any judgment about the beauty, functionality, or moral rectitude of the child. The child’s sheer existence, the mere fact of it, is ‘very good.’ That’s what I propose God, too, exclaimed, looking at the new-born world. And that unconditional love grounds creation’s existence.” In this fourth Gifford Lecture, Miroslav Volf contrasts the selective and self-centered love of Ivan Karamazov with the radically inclusive, unconditional love of Father Zosima. Drawing deeply from Dostoevsky’s *The Brothers Karamazov*, Genesis’s creation and flood narratives, and Hannah Arendt’s concept of *amor mundi*, Volf explores a theology of agapic love: unearned, universal, and enduring. This is the love by which God sees creation as “very good”—not because it is perfect, but because it exists. It’s the love that grieves corruption without destroying it, that sees responsibility as mutual, and that offers the only hope for life in a deeply flawed world. With references to Luther, Nietzsche, and modern visions of power and desire, Volf challenges us to ask what kind of love makes a world, sustains it, and might one day save it. “Love the world,” he insists, “or lose your soul.” **Episode Highlights** 1. “The world will either be loved with unconditional love, or it'll not be loved at all.” 2. “Unconditional love abides. If the object of love is in a state that can be celebrated, love rejoices. If it is not, love mourns and takes time to help bring it back to itself.” 3. “Each is responsible for all. Each is guilty for all. Each needs forgiveness from all. Each must forgive all.” 4. “Creation is not primarily sacramental or iconic. It is an object of delight both for humans and for God.” 5. “Agapic love demands nothing from the beloved, though it cares and hopes much for them and for the shared world with them.” **Show Notes** - Schopenhauer and Nietzsche’s visions of happiness: pleasure and power as substitutes for love - “Love as hunger”: the devouring nature of epithemic desire - Ivan Karamazov’s tragic love for life—selective, gut-level, and self-focused - “There is still… this wild and perhaps indecent thirst for life in me” - Father Zosima’s universal love for “every leaf and every ray of God’s light” - “Love man also in his sin… Love all God’s creation” - Sonya and Raskolnikov in *Crime and Punishment*: love as restoration - “She loved him and stayed with him—not although he murdered, but because he murdered” - God’s declaration in Genesis: “And look—it was very good” - Hannah Arendt’s *amor mundi*—“I want you to be” as pure affirmation - Creation as gift: “Each is itself by being more than itself” - Martin Luther on marriage, sex, and delight as godly pleasures - The flood as hypothetical: divine grief replaces divine destruction - “It grieved God to his heart”—grief as a form of agapic love - “Each is responsible for all. Each is guilty for all.” - Agape over erotic love: not reward and punishment, but faithful presence and care - “Agapic love demands nothing… It is free, sovereign to love, humble.” - Closing invitation: to live the life of love, under whatever circumstances Production Notes This podcast featured Miroslav Volf Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa Hosted by Evan Rosa Production Assistance by Taylor Craig and Macie Bridge A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give Special thanks to Dr. Paul Nimmo, Paula Duncan, and the media team at the University of Aberdeen. Thanks also to the Templeton Religion Trust for their support of the University of Aberdeen’s 2025 Gifford Lectures and to the McDonald Agape Foundation for supporting Miroslav’s research towards the lectureship.

Miroslav Volf critiques Nietzsche’s vision of power, love, and suffering—and offers Jesus’s unconditional love as a more excellent way. The idea that competitive and goalless striving to increase one's power is the final Good, does very important work in Nietzsche’s philosophy. For Nietzsche, striving is good. Happiness does not rest in feeling that one's power is growing. In the modern world, individuals are, as Nietzsche puts it, ‘crossed everywhere with infinity.’ … And therefore condemn to ceaseless striving … The will to power aims at surpassing the level reached at any given time. And that goal can never be reached. You're always equally behind. Striving for superiority so as to enhance power does not just elevate some, the stronger ones. If the difference in power between parties increases, the weak become weaker in socially significant sense, even if their power has objectively increased. Successful striving for superiority inferiorizes.” In this third installment of his Gifford Lectures, Miroslav Volf offers a trenchant critique of Friedrich Nietzsche’s moral philosophy—especially his exaltation of the will to power, his affirmation of eternal suffering, and his agonistic conception of love. Nietzsche, Volf argues, fails to cultivate a love that can endure possession, withstand unworthiness, or affirm the sheer existence of the other. Instead, Nietzsche’s love quickly dissolves into contempt. Drawing from Christian theology, and particularly Jesus’s teaching that God causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good alike, Volf explores a different kind of love—agapic, unconditional, and presuppositionless. He offers a vision of divine love that is not driven by need or achievement but that affirms existence itself, regardless of success, strength, or status. In the face of suffering, Nietzsche's *amor fati* falters—but Jesus’s embrace endures. ### Episode Highlights 1. "The sun, in fact, has no need to bestow its gift of light and warmth. It gains nothing from imparting its gifts." 2. "Love that is neither motivated by need nor based on worthiness—that is the kind of love Nietzsche thought prevented Jesus from loving humanity and earth." 3. "Nietzsche aspires to transfiguration of all things through value-bestowing life, but he cannot overcome nausea over humans." 4. "God’s love for creatures is unconditional. It is agapic love for the states in which they find themselves." 5. "Love can only flicker. It moves from place to place because it can live only between places. If it took an abode, it would die." **Show Notes** - Miroslav Volf’s engagement with Nietzsche’s work - Friedrich Nietzsche’s critique of Christianity as life-denying and his vision of the will to power - Schopenhauer’s hedonism vs. Nietzsche’s anti-hedonism: “What is good? Everything that heightens the feeling of power.” - The will to power as Nietzsche’s supreme value and “hyper-good” - “The will to power is not a philosophy of life—it’s a philosophy of vitality.” - Nietzsche’s agonism: the noble contest for superiority among equally powerful opponents - “Every GOAT is a GOAT only for a time.” - Amor fati: Nietzsche’s love of fate and affirmation of all existence - Nietzsche’s ideal of desire without satisfaction: “desiring to desire” - Dangers of epithumic (need-based, consuming) love - “Love cannot abide. Its shelf life is shorter than a two-year-old’s toy... If it took an abode, it would die.” - Nietzsche’s nausea at the weakness and smallness of humanity: “Nausea, nausea... alas, man recurs eternally.” - Zarathustra’s conditional love: based on worthiness, wisdom, and power - “Joy in tearing down has fully supplanted love’s delight in what is.” - Nietzsche’s failure to love the unworthy: “His love fails to encompass the great majority of actually living human beings.” - Volf’s theological critique of striving, superiority, and contempt - “Nietzsche affirms vitality at the expense of concrete human beings.” - The biblical God’s love: “He makes his sun rise on the evil and the good.” - “Even the poorest fisherman rows with golden oars.” - Jesus’s unconditional love versus Nietzsche’s agonistic, conditional love - Kierkegaard and Luther on the distinction between person and work - Hannah Arendt’s political anthropology and enduring love in the face of unworthiness - Volf’s proposal for a theology of loving the present world in its broken form - “We can actually long also for what we have.” - “Love that cannot take an abode will die.” - A vision of divine, presuppositionless love that neither requires need nor merit

Miroslav Volf confronts Schopenhauer’s pessimism and unquenchable thirst with a vision of love that affirms the world. “Unquenchable thirst makes for ceaseless pain. This befits our nature as objectification of the ceaseless and aimless will at the heart of reality. ... For Schopenhauer, the pleasure of satisfaction are the lights of fireflies in the night of life’s suffering. These four claims taken together make pain the primordial, universal, and unalterable state of human lives.” In the second installment of his 2025 Gifford Lectures, Miroslav Volf examines the 19th-century philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer’s radical rejection of the world. Through Schopenhauer’s metaphysics of blind will and insatiable desire, Volf draws out the philosopher’s haunting pessimism and hatred for existence itself. But Schopenhauer’s rejection of the world—rooted in disappointed love—is not just a historical curiosity; Volf shows how our modern consumerist cravings mirror Schopenhauer’s vision of unquenchable thirst and fleeting satisfaction. In response, Volf offers a theological and philosophical critique grounded in three kinds of love—epithumic (appetitive), erotic (appreciative), and agapic (self-giving)—arguing that agape love must be central in our relationship to the world. “Everything is a means, but nothing satisfies,” Volf warns, unless we reorder our loves. This second lecture challenges listeners to reconsider what it means to live in and love a world full of suffering—without abandoning its goodness. ### Episode Highlights 1. “Unquenchable thirst makes for ceaseless pain. This befits our nature as objectification of the ceaseless and aimless will at the heart of reality.” 2. “Whether we love ice cream or sex or God, we are often merely seeking to slake our thirst.” 3. “If we long for what we have, what we have never ceases to satisfy.” 4. “A better version is available—for whatever reason, it is not good enough. And we discard it. This is micro-rejection of the world.” 5. “Those who love agape refuse to act as if they were the midpoint of their world.” ### Helpful Links and Resources - [*The World as Will and Representation* by Arthur Schopenhauer](https://store.doverpublications.com/products/9780486217611?srsltid=AfmBOoqJu-G3QvY1SZqM-dlBf-gIh1RyqKQlVBSv8q_eS8yRs4eCGouX) - [*Paradiso* by Dante Alighieri](https://digitaldante.columbia.edu/dante/divine-comedy/paradiso/paradiso-1/) - [Victor Hugo’s *Les Misérables*](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/135) - [*A Brief for the Defense* by Jack Gilbert](https://poetrysociety.org/poems/a-brief-for-the-defense) ### Show Notes - Schopenhauer’s pessimism as rooted in disappointed love of the world - God’s declaration in Genesis—“very good”—contrasted with Schopenhauer’s “nothing is good” - Job’s suffering as a theological counterpoint to Schopenhauer’s metaphysical despair - Human desire framed as unquenchable thirst: pain, boredom, and fleeting satisfaction - Schopenhauer’s diagnosis: we swing endlessly between pain and boredom - Three kinds of love introduced: epithumic (appetite), erotic (appreciation), agapic (affirmation) - Schopenhauer’s exclusive emphasis on appetite—no place for appreciation or unconditional love - Modern consumer culture mirrors Schopenhauer’s account: desiring to desire, never satisfied - Fast fashion, disposability, and market-induced obsolescence as symptoms of world-negation - “We long for what we have” vs. “we discard the world” - Luther’s critique: “suck God’s blood”—epithumic relation to God - Agape love: affirming the other, even when undeserving or diminished - Erotic love: savoring the intrinsic worth of things, not just their utility - The fleetingness of joy and comparison’s corrosion of value - Modern desire as invasive, subliminally shaped by market competition - Denigration of what is in favor of what could be—a pathology of dissatisfaction - Consumerism as massive “micro-rejection” of the world - Volf’s call to reorder our loves toward appreciation and unconditional affirmation - Theology and metaphysics reframe suffering not as a reason to curse the world, but to love it better - Preview of next lecture: Nietzsche, joy, and the affirmation of all existence **Production Notes** - This podcast featured Miroslav Volf - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Taylor Craig and Macie Bridge - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Miroslav Volf on how to rightly love a radically ambivalent world. “The world, our planetary home, certainly needs to be changed, improved. But what it needs even more is to be rightly loved.” Miroslav Volf begins his 2025 Gifford Lectures at the University of Aberdeen with a provocative theological inquiry: What difference does belief in God make for our relationship to the world? Drawing deeply from Nietzsche’s “death of God,” Schopenhauer’s despair, and Hannah Arendt’s vision of *amor mundi*, Volf explores the ambivalence of modern life—its beauty and horror, its resonance and alienation. Can we truly love the world, even amidst its chaos and collapse? Can a belief in the God of Jesus Christ provide motivation to love—not as appetite or utility, but as radical, unconditional affirmation? Volf suggests that faith offers not a retreat from reality, but an anchor amid its disorder—a trust that enables us to hope, even when the world’s goodness seems impossible. This first lecture challenges us to consider the character of our relationship to the world, between atheism and theism, critique and love. **Episode Highlights** 1. “The world, our planetary home, certainly needs to be changed, improved. But what it needs even more is to be rightly loved.” 2. “Resonance seems both indispensable and insufficient. But what should supplement it? What should underpin it?” 3. “Our love for that lived world is what these lectures are about.” 4. “We can reject and hate one form of the world because we love the world as such.” 5. “Though God is fully alive… we often find the same God asleep when our boats are about to capsize.” **Helpful Links and References** - [Resonance by Hartmut Rosa](https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Resonance%3A+A+Sociology+of+Our+Relationship+to+the+World-p-9781509519927) - [The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt](https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/H/bo29137972.html) - [This Life by Martin Hägglund](https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/248368/this-life-by-martin-hagglund/) - [The Home of God by Miroslav Volf and Ryan McAnnally-Linz](https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-home-of-god/404972) - [The City of God by Augustine](https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1201.htm) - [Divine Comedy by Dante](https://digitaldante.columbia.edu/dante/divine-comedy/) **Show Notes** - Paul Nimmo introduces the Gifford Lectures and Miroslav Volf’s theme - Volf begins with gratitude and scope: belief in God and our world - Introduces Nietzsche's “death of God” as cultural metaphor - Frames plausibility vs. desirability of God's existence - Introduces Hartmut Rosa’s theory of resonance - Problem: resonance is not enough; what underpins motivation to care? - Introduces *amor mundi* as thematic direction of the lectures - Contrasts Marx’s atheism and human liberation with Nietzsche’s nihilism - Analyzes Dante and Beatrice in Hägglund’s *This Life* - Distinguishes between “world” and “form of the world” - Uses cruise ship metaphor to critique modern life’s ambivalence - Discusses Augustine, Hannah Arendt, and *The Home of God* - Reflections on divine providence and theodicy - Biblical images: flood, exile, and the sleeping God - Ends with preview of next lectures on Schopenhauer and Nietzsche - Let me know if you'd like episode-specific artwork prompts, promotional copy for social media, or a transcript excerpt formatted for publication. **Production Notes** - This podcast featured Miroslav Volf - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Taylor Craig and Macie Bridge - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give - Special thanks to Dr. Paul Nimmo, Paula Duncan, and the media team at the University of Aberdeen. Thanks also to the Templeton Religion Trust for their support of the University of Aberdeen’s 2025 Gifford Lectures and to the McDonald Agape Foundation for supporting Miroslav’s research towards the lectureship.

What if our relentless drive to be better than others is quietly breaking us? Miroslav Volf unpacks the core themes of his 2025 book, The Cost of Ambition: How Striving to Be Better Than Others Makes Us Worse. In this book, Volf offers a penetrating critique of comparison culture, diagnosing the hidden moral and spiritual wounds caused by competition and superiority. Drawing on Scripture, theology, philosophy, literature, and our culture’s obsession with competition and superiority, Volf challenges our assumptions about ambition and identity—and presents a deeply humanizing vision of life rooted not in being “the best,” but in receiving ourselves as creatures made and loved by God. From Milton’s depiction of Satan to Jesus’s descent in Philippians 2, from the architectural rivalry of ancient Byzantium to modern Olympic anxieties, Volf invites us to imagine a new foundation for personal and social flourishing: a life free from striving, rooted in love and grace. Highlights 1. “The key here is for us to come to appreciate, affirm, and—importantly—love ourselves. Love ourselves unconditionally.” 2. “Striving for superiority devalues everything we have, if it doesn’t contribute to us being better than someone else.” 3. “The inverse of striving for superiority is internal plague by inferiority.” 4. “In Jesus, we see that God’s glory is not to dominate but to lift up what is low.” 5. “We constantly compare to feel good about ourselves, and end up unsure of who we are.” 6. “We have been given to ourselves by God—our very existence is a gift, not a merit.” **Helpful Links and Resources** - Visit [faith.yale.edu/ambition](http://faith.yale.edu/ambition) to get a 40-page PDF Discussion Guide and Full Access to 7 videos - [*The Cost of Ambition* by Miroslav Volf (Baker Academic, May 2025)](https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-cost-of-ambition/405130) - [Philippians 2:5–11 (NIV) – Christ’s Humility and Exaltation – BibleGateway](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians+2%3A5-11&version=NIV) - [Romans 12:10 – “Outdo one another in showing honor” – BibleHub](https://biblehub.com/romans/12-10.htm) - [*Paradise Lost* by John Milton – Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/20) - [*Paradise Regained* by John Milton – Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/58) **Show Notes** ### Opening Reflections on Competition - The conversation begins with Volf recalling a talk he gave at the Global Congress on Christianity & Sports. - He uses athletic competition—highlighting Lionel Messi—as a lens for questioning the moral value of striving to be better than others. - “Sure, competition pulls people up—but it also familiarizes us with inferiority.” - “We compare ourselves to feel good… but end up feeling worse.” - Introduces the story of Justinian and Hagia Sophia: “Oh Solomon, I have outdone you.” ### Rivalry, Power, and Insecurity - Shares the backstory of Juliana’s competing church and the gold-ceiling arms race with Justinian. - “Religious architecture became a battlefield of status.” - Draws insight from these historic rivalries as examples of how ambition pervades religious life—not just secular. ### Modern Parallels: Yale Students’s & the Rat Race - Volf notes how even Yale undergrads—once top of their class—feel insecure in comparison to peers. - “They arrive and suddenly their worth plummets. That’s insane.” - The performance-driven culture makes stable identity nearly impossible. ### Biblical Illustration: Kierkegaard’s Lily - Volf recounts Kierkegaard’s retelling of Jesus’s lily parable. - A bird whispers to the little lily that it’s not beautiful enough, prompting the lily to uproot itself—and wither. - “The lesson: we are destined to lose ourselves when our value depends on comparison.” ### Intrinsic Value and the Image of God - “We need to discover the intrinsic value of who we are as creatures made in the image of God.” - Kierkegaard and Jesus both show us the beauty of ‘mere humanity.’ - “You are more glorious in your humanity than Solomon in his robes.” ### Theological Anthropology and Grace - “We have been given to ourselves by God—our lives are a gift.” - “We owe so much to luck, to others, to God. So how can we boast?” - Paul’s challenge in 1 Corinthians: “What do you have that you have not received?” ### Milton and Satan’s Ambition - Shifts to *Paradise Lost*: Satan rebels because he can’t bear not being top. - “Even what is beautiful becomes devalued if it doesn’t prove superiority.” - In *Paradise Regained*, Satan tempts Jesus to be the greatest—but Jesus refuses. ### Christ’s Humility and Downward Glory - Highlights Philippians 2: Jesus “emptied himself… took the form of a servant.” - “God’s glory is not domination—it’s lifting up the lowly.” - “Salvation comes not through seizing status, but through relinquishing it.” ### Paul’s Vision of Communal Honor - Romans 12:10: “Outdo one another in showing honor.” - “True honor comes not from climbing over others, but from lifting them up.” - Connects this ethic to Paul’s vision of church as an egalitarian body. ### God’s Care for Creation and Humanity - Luther’s observation: God calls Earth good but not Heaven—“God cares more for our home than his own.” - “We are called to emulate God’s loving attention to the least.” ### Striving vs. Acceptance - Volf contrasts ambition with love: “The inverse of striving for superiority is the plague of inferiority.” - Encourages unconditional self-love as a reflection of God’s love. - Uses image of a parent greeting a newborn: “You’ve arrived.” ### A Vision for Healed Culture - “We wreck others in our pursuit of superiority—and we leave them wounded in our wake.” - The gospel reveals a better way: not performance, but grace. - “Our salvation and our culture’s healing lie in the humility of Jesus.” - “We must rediscover the beauty of our mere humanity.” **About Miroslav Volf** Miroslav Volf is the founding director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture and the Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School. One of the leading public theologians of our time, he is the author of numerous books including *Exclusion and Embrace*, *Flourishing*, *A Public Faith*, *Life Worth Living*, and most recently, *The Cost of Ambition*. His work explores themes of identity, reconciliation, human dignity, and the role of faith in a pluralistic society. He is a frequent speaker around the world and has advised both religious and civic leaders on matters of peace and justice. **Production Notes** - This podcast featured Miroslav Volf - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Macie Bridge and Taylor Craig - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Silas Farley, former New York City Ballet dancer and current Dean of the Colburn School's Trudl Zipper Dance Institute, explores the profound connections between classical ballet, Christian worship, and embodied spirituality. From his early exposure to liturgical dance in a charismatic Lutheran church to his career as a professional dancer and choreographer, Farley illuminates how the physicality of ballet can express deep spiritual truths and serve as an act of worship. ## **Episode Highlights from Silas Farley** “The physicality of ballet is cruciform. The dancer stands in a turned-out position... the body becomes the intersection of the vertical and the horizontal plane.” “Sin makes the soul curve in on itself, whereas holiness or wholeness in God opens us up.” “We are Christian humanists. We don't need to be intimidated by beauty.” “There's knowledge and insight in all the different parts of our bodies, not just in our brain.” “The mystery of the incarnation is that when the creator of all things wanted to make himself known to his creation, he didn't come as a vapor or as a mountain or as a bird. But he came as a man.” ## **Resources for Ballet Engagement** - Local community ballet companies/schools - “B is for Ballet” (ABT children’s book) - “My Daddy Can Fly” (ABT) - *Celestial Bodies,* by Laura Jacobs - *Apollo’s Angels,* by Jennifer Homans - Silas Farley’s Podcast: *Hear the Dance* (NYC Ballet) - *The Nutcracker* (NYC Ballet/Balanchine) - *Jewels* (1967, Balanchine) - *Agon* (Balanchine/Stravinsky) ## About Silas Farley Silas Farley is a professional ballet dancer and choreographer. Dean of the Trudl Zipper Dance Institute at the Colburn School in Los Angeles, Silas is a former New York City Ballet dancer, choreographer, and educator. He also currently serves as Armstrong Artist in Residence in Ballet in the Meadows School of the Arts at Southern Methodist University. His work includes choreography for the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Houston Ballet, and the New York City Ballet. He hosts the [*Hear the Dance*](https://podcast.nycballet.com/category/Hear+the+Dance) podcast and creates works that integrate classical ballet with spiritual themes. Silas also serves on the board of The George Balanchine Foundation. --- Show Notes ## **Silas Farley’s Early Dance Background & Formation** - Silas Farley: Originally from Charlotte, North Carolina; youngest of 7 children (4 brothers, 2 sisters); multiracial family (white father, Black mother) - First exposure through charismatic Lutheran church’s liturgical dance ministry - Saw formal ballet at age 6 when Christian ballet company Ballet Magnifica performed - Dance initially experienced as form of worship before performance ## **Liturgical vs Classical Ballet** - Liturgical dance: - Amplifies worship - Functions as embodied prayer - Not primarily performative - Historical examples: David with Ark of Covenant, Miriam after Red Sea crossing - Classical ballet: - Performed on proscenium stage - Requires specific training - Focuses on virtuosic movements - Explicitly performative - Both forms serve as offerings/vessels for transmitting energy to audience ## **Technical Elements of Ballet: Turnout, Spiritual Turnout, and Opening Up** - Foundational concept of “turnout”—rotation of feet/hips outward - “That idea of turnout makes the body more expressive in a way. Because if our toes are straightforward, like the way we're designed, you only see a certain amount of the leg. Whereas if the body stands turned out, you see the whole inside of the musculature of the leg. It's a more complete revelation of the body.” - Creates more complete revelation of body’s musculature - Physicality conveys “spiritual turnout” - openness/receptiveness - “Spiritual turnout: that you are open   and receptive and generous. And that's embodied in the physicality of ballet.” - “So much of what developed as ballet as we know, it happened at the court of Louis the XIV in the  1660-1670s.” - “It's not artificial, it's actually supernatural.” ## **Physical & Spiritual Connections in Ballet** - “Our walk  with God is that he's  defining us so that we are becoming open. We're open to him. We're open to receive his love. We're open to be vessels of his love. We're open to receiving and exchanging love with  other people.” - Freedom within the constraints movements and positions - Swan Lake: “They're so free. They're almost like birds. But that's come through a lifestyle of discipline.” - “You get a hyper awareness of your own body.” - Develops hyper-awareness of body - Links to incarnational theology—Christ as God-man - Freedom through discipline and submission - Movement vocabulary builds from simple elements (plié, tendu) - Plie: Mama and Dada - “As a dancer grows up in ballet, the dancer then develops  this enormous vocabulary of movement  that are all reducible back to the microcosm of the plié and the tendu.” - Creates infinite lines suggesting eternity - Combines circular power with eternal lines - Theological Dimensions of Ballet - Silas’s choreographed interpretation of C.S. Lewis’s *The Four Loves,* as a ballet ## Ballet and the Art of Choreography - “The music and choreography were like brothers.” - “Songs from the Spirit” - “The music becomes my map.” - Choreographing in silence ## The Role of the Audience and Their Experience - Ideas to dialogue with - A set of ideas to gather together and embody - Arvo Part, The Genealogy of Jesus in Luke 3 - Uniting my heart with Jesus - I’m never didactic about it. - An embodied musical experience - “If I  say ‘family, friendship, romance, divine love,’ you all instantly have associations, beauty, pain, trauma, consolation that are associated with those four loves.” - “ I'm not writing a sermon about any of these ideas. I'm choreographing a ballet. I'm assembling these classical steps with this music to create a visceral, embodied musical experience.” - The audience: “They come to it with their experiences, their own eyes and ears and their own bodies. And that's enough.” - Arvo Part: “Music is white light, and the prism is the soul of the listener.” - “The musical ideas are refracted through the hearer.” - “The audience is always in my heart and mind.” - “I always think of the artwork as an act of hospitality.  … I’m just setting the table.” ## What’s Unique about Ballet as a Physical Artform - Beautiful interconnectedness - Asking the body to reach to its limits - “The Infinite Line” in Ballet - Radiating out into multiple eternal lines at the same time - Constant reaching in many directions at once - Cruciform positioning: intersection of vertical and horizontal planes - “The body becomes radiant” - Use of “épaulement”—spiraling of body around spine’s axis - Reveals pulse points (neck, wrists) creating vulnerable energy exchange with audience - Opening up the life force of the dancer - No separation between dancer and instrument (“I am the work of art”) - Cruciform physicality ## **Contemporary Cultural Context** - Modern culture increasingly disembodied due to screens/digital media - “We live in an increasingly disembodied culture, we are absorbed with screens two dimensional, uh, highly edited and curated,  mediated self presentation   as opposed to like visceral nitty gritty blood, sweat, tears, good, bad, and ugly of life itself. So we get insulated from the step that makes life what it is.” - Education often treats people as “brains on sticks” - “The Christian life is a lifestyle of in embodied discipleship to the God man, Jesus  Christ. And he's not a brain on a stick. He's the God man. He has a jawbone and he went through puberty and he has wounds like the beautiful hymn. It says, rich wounds, yet visible and beauty glorified. The mystery of the incarnation is that when the creator of all things wanted to make  himself known to his creation, he didn't come as a  vapor or as a mountain or as a bird, but he came as a man. And so he sublimates and affirms the glory of his creation, the materiality of his creation and the body as the crown of his creation by coming as a man.” - Church needs more embodied practices - Ballet offers counterpoint to disembodied tendencies - Importance of physical discipline in spiritual formation - Romans 12:1 and making our bodies as living sacrifices ## How to Experience Ballet “There's nothing you need to know before going to experience ballet.  You have a body, you have eyes, you have ears. That's all you need. Just let it wash over you. Let it work on you in its own kind of visceral way, and let that be an entry point  to not be intimidated by the, the music,  or the wordlessness or the tutu's or the point shoes or whatever. There's so many different stylistic manifestations of ballet. But just go experience it. And if you can, I would really encourage people almost as much or more than  watching it go see if like your local YMCA or  something has an adult ballet class, or if you're a kid, maybe ask your parents to sign you up to go try a class and just feel what that turned-out physicality feels like in your own body. It's so beautiful. It's very empowering.” **Production Notes** - This podcast featured Silas Farley and Macie Bridge - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily Brookfield - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Pope Francis died on Monday April 21, 2025. And to remember and celebrate his life, we’re bringing out an episode from our archives featuring social ethicist and Associate Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Virginia, Nichole M. Flores. Ryan McAnnally-Linz interviewed her in early 2021 about Fratelli Tutti, an encyclical teaching he published 6 months into the COVID-19 pandemic. From that encyclical he writes: *“Here we have a splendid secret that shows us how to dream and to turn our life into a wonderful adventure. No one can face life in isolation… We need a community that supports and helps us, in which we can help one another to keep looking ahead. How important it is to dream together… By ourselves, we risk seeing mirages, things that are not there. Dreams, on the other hand, are built together. Let us dream, then, as a single human family, as fellow travelers sharing the same flesh, as children of the same earth which is our common home, each of us bringing the richness of his or her beliefs and convictions, each of us with his or her own voice, brothers and sisters all."* (Pope Francis, Fratelli Tutti) Last year, in the midst of a global nightmare, Pope Francis invited the world to dream together of something different. He released *Fratelli Tutti* in October 2020—a message of friendship, dignity, and solidarity not just to Catholics, but "to all people of good will"—for the whole human community. In this episode, social ethicist Nichole Flores (University of Virginia) explains papal encyclicals and works through the moral vision of *Fratelli Tutti*, highlighting especially Pope Francis’s views on faith as seeing with the eyes of Christ, the implications of human dignity for discourse, justice and solidarity, and finally the language of dreaming together of a different world. **Support For the Life of the World: [Give to  the Yale Center for Faith & Culture](https://faith.yale.edu/give)** **Show Notes** - Read the entire text of Fratelli Tutti online [**here**](http://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/encyclicals/documents/papa-francesco_20201003_enciclica-fratelli-tutti.html) - What is a papal encyclical? For “All people of good will”—not just Catholics - Examining the signs of the times, e.g., Fratelli Tutti will always be connected to its global context during a pandemic. - What is Fratelli Tutti? What does its title mean? - Brothers and Sisters All: Using Italian, a particular language, as a pathway to the universal, rather than traditional Latin title - Pope Francis’ roots in Latin America: How his particularity as Latin American gives him a universal message; local and communal belonging; neighborhoods contributing to the common good - Seeing/Gazing: Faith as seeing with the eyes of Christ (*Lumen Fidei*) - Undermining human dignity in social media discourse; the failure of grandstanding rather than encounter - Solidarity as a dirty word: conflicts within Catholicism about how to understand and apply justice and solidarity in real life - Solidarity requires encounter with the other - Social friendship and fraternity - Human dignity in the tradition of Catholic social ethics - Dreaming together: fighting against the temptation to dream alone, inviting us to imagine; cultivating a conversation that forms collective imagination and aesthetic reality. **About Nichole Flores** Nichole Flores is a social ethicist who is Assistant Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Virginia. She studies the constructive contributions of Catholic and Latinx theologies to notions of justice and aesthetics to the life of democracy. Her research in practical ethics addresses issues of democracy, migration, family, gender, economics (labor and consumption), race and ethnicity, and ecology. Visit [**NicholeMFlores.com**](https://nicholemflores.com/) for more information.

“Art is a form of prayer … a way to enter into relationship.” Artist and theologian Bruce Herman reflects on the sacred vocation of making, resisting consumerism, and the divine invitation to become co-creators. From Mark Rothko to Rainer Maria Rilke, to Andres Serrano’s “Piss Christ” and T.S. Eliot’s *Four Quartets*, he comments on the holy risk of artmaking and the sacred fire of creative origination. Together with Evan Rosa, Bruce Herman explores the divine vocation of art making as resistance to consumer culture and passive living. In this deeply poetic and wide-ranging conversation—and drawing from his book *Makers by Nature—*he invites us into a vision of art not as individual genius or commodity, but as service, dialogue, and co-creation rooted in love, not fear. They touch on ancient questions of human identity and desire, the creative implications of being made in the image of God, Buber’s *I and Thou*, the scandal of the cross, Eliot’s divine fire, Rothko’s melancholy ecstasy, and how even making a loaf of bread can be a form of holy protest. A profound reflection on what it means to be human, and how we might change our lives—through beauty, vulnerability, and relational making. **Episode Highlights** “We are made by a Maker to be makers.” “ I think hope is being stolen from us Surreptitiously moment by moment hour by hour day by day.” “There is no them. There is only us.” “The work itself has a life of its own.” “Art that serves a community.” “You must change your life.” —Rilke, recited by Bruce Herman in reflection on the transformative power of art. “When we're not making something, we're not whole. We're not healthy.” “Making art is a form of prayer. It's a form of entering into relationship.” “Art is not for the artist—any more than it's for anyone else. The work stands apart. It has its own voice.” “We're not merely consumers—we're made by a Maker to be makers.” “The ultimate act of art is hospitality.” **Topics and Themes** - Human beings are born to create and make meaning - Art as theological dialogue and spiritual resistance - Creative practice as a form of love and worship - Christian art and culture in dialogue with contemporary issues - Passive consumption vs. active creation - How to engage with provocative art faithfully - The role of beauty, mystery, and risk in the creative process - Art that changes you spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually - The sacred vocation of the artist in a consumerist world - How poetry and painting open up divine encounter, particularly in Rainer Maria Rilke’s “Archaic Torso of Apollo” - *Four Quartets* and spiritual longing in modern poetry - Hospitality, submission, and service as aesthetic postures - Modern culture's sickness and art as medicine - Encountering the cross through contemporary artistic imagination ***“Archaic Torso of Apollo”*** **Rainer Maria Rilke 1875 –1926** We cannot know his legendary head with eyes like ripening fruit. And yet his torso is still suffused with brilliance from inside, like a lamp, in which his gaze, now turned to low, gleams in all its power. Otherwise the curved breast could not dazzle you so, nor could a smile run through the placid hips and thighs to that dark center where procreation flared. Otherwise this stone would seem defaced beneath the translucent cascade of the shoulders and would not glisten like a wild beast’s fur: would not, from all the borders of itself, burst like a star: for here there is no place that does not see you. You must change your life. **About Bruce Herman** Bruce Herman is a painter, writer, educator, and speaker. His art has been shown in more than 150 exhibitions—nationally in many US cities, including New York, Boston, Washington, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Houston—and internationally in England, Japan, Hong Kong, Italy, Canada, and Israel. His artwork is featured in many public and private art collections including the Vatican Museum of Modern Religious Art in Rome; The Cincinnati Museum of Fine Arts print collection; The Grunewald Print Collection of the Hammer Museum, Los Angeles; DeCordova Museum in Boston; the Cape Ann Museum; and in many colleges and universities throughout the United States and Canada. Herman taught at Gordon College for nearly four decades, and is the founding chair of the Art Department there. He held the Lothlórien Distinguished Chair in Fine Arts for more than fifteen years, and continues to curate exhibitions and manage the College art collection there. Herman completed both BFA and MFA degrees at Boston University College of Fine Arts under American artists Philip Guston, James Weeks, David Aronson, Reed Kay, and Arthur Polonsky. He was named Boston University College of Fine Arts Distinguished Alumnus of the Year 2006. Herman’s art may be found in dozens of journals, popular magazines, newspapers, and online art features. He and co-author Walter Hansen wrote the book [*Through Your Eyes*](https://www.amazon.com/Through-Your-Eyes-Dialogues-Paintings/dp/0802871178), 2013, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, a thirty-year retrospective of Herman’s art as seen through the eyes of his most dedicated collector. To learn more, explore [A Video Portrait of the Artist](https://www.bruceherman.com/bruce-herman-a-video-portrait) and [My Process – An Essay by Bruce Herman](https://www.bruceherman.com/process). **Books by Bruce Herman** [*Makers by Nature: Letters from a Master Painter on Faith, Hope, and Art](https://www.ivpress.com/makers-by-nature)* (2025) [*Ordinary Saints](https://ordinary-saints.com/the-program/) (*2018) [*Through Your Eyes: The Art of Bruce Herman](https://www.amazon.com/Through-Your-Eyes-Dialogues-Paintings/dp/0802871178) (*2013) [*QU4RTETS](https://iamculturecare.com/projects/qu4rtets)* with Makoto Fujimura, Bruce Herman, Christopher Theofanidis, Jeremy Begbie (2012) [*A Broken Beauty*](https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Beauty-Theodore-L-Prescott/dp/0802828183) (2006) **Show Notes** - **Bruce Herman on Human Identity as Makers** - We are created in the image of God—the ultimate “I Am”—and thus made to create. - “We are made by a Maker to be makers.” - To deny our creative impulse is to risk a deep form of spiritual unhealth. - Making is not just for the “artist”—everyone is born with the capacity to make. - **Theological Themes and Philosophical Frameworks** - Influences include Martin Buber’s “I and Thou,” René Girard’s scapegoating theory, and the image of God in Genesis. - “We don't really exist for ourselves. We exist in the space between us.” - The divine invitation is relational, not autonomous. - Desire, imitation, and submission form the core of our relational anthropology. - **Art as Resistance to Consumerism** - “We begin to enter into illness when we become mere consumers.” - Art Versus Propaganda - Culture is sickened by passive consumption, entertainment addiction, and aesthetic commodification. - Making a loaf of bread, carving wood, or crafting a cocktail are acts of cultural resistance. - Desire - “Anything is resistance… Anything is a protest against passive consumption.” - **Art as Dialogue and Submission** - “Making art is a form of prayer. It’s a form of entering into relationship.” - Submission—though culturally maligned—is a necessary posture in love and art. - Engaging with art requires openness to transformation. - “If you want to really receive what a poem is communicating, you have to submit to it.” - **The Transformative Power of Encountering Art** - Quoting Rilke’s *Archaic Torso of Apollo*: “You must change your life.” - True art sees the viewer and invites them to become something more. - Herman’s own transformative moment came unexpectedly in front of a Rothko painting. - “The best part of my work is outside of my control.” - **Scandal, Offense, and the Cross in Art** - Analyzing Andres Serrano’s *Piss Christ* as a sincere meditation on the commercialization of the cross. - “Does the crucifixion still carry sacred weight—or has it been reduced to jewelry?” - Art should provoke—but out of love, not self-aggrandizement or malice. - “The cross is an offense. Paul says so. But it’s the power of God for those being saved.” - **Beauty, Suffering, and Holy Risk** - Encounter with art can arise from personal or collective suffering. - Bruce references Christian Wiman and Walker Percy as artists opened by pain. - “Sometimes it takes catastrophe to open us up again.” - Great art offers not escape, but transformation through vulnerability. - **The Fire and the Rose: T. S. Eliot’s Influence** - Four Quartets shaped Herman’s artistic and theological imagination. - Eliot’s poetry is contemplative, musical, liturgical, and steeped in paradox. - “To be redeemed from fire by fire… when the fire and the rose are one.” - The collaborative *Quartets* project with Makoto Fujimura and Chris Theofanidis honors Eliot’s poetic vision. - **Living and Creating from Love, Not Fear** - “Make from love, not fear.” - Fear-driven art (or politics) leads to manipulation and despair. - Acts of love include cooking, serving, sharing, and creating for others. - “The ultimate act of art is hospitality.” --- --- ## Media & Intellectual References - [*Makers by Nature* by Bruce Herman](https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802883371/makers-by-nature/) - [*Four Quartets* by T. S. Eliot](http://www.davidgorman.com/4quartets/) - [*The Archaic Torso of Apollo* by Rainer Maria Rilke](https://poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/German/RilkeTorso.php) - [Wassily Kandinsky, “On the Spiritual in Art”](https://www.csus.edu/indiv/o/obriene/art206/onspiritualinart00kand.pdf) - [*Amusing Ourselves to Death* by Neil Postman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death) - [*Things Hidden Since the Foundation of the World* by René Girard](https://www.amazon.com/Things-Hidden-Since-Foundation-World/dp/0804722153) - [*The Art of the Commonplace* by Wendell Berry](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51777.The_Art_of_the_Commonplace) - [Andres Serrano’s *Piss Christ*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ) - [Makoto Fujimura’s Art and Collaboration](https://makotofujimura.com/)

"Do not be afraid of your fears, but cope with them—learn how to deal with them—because unless you do, you cannot live your life abundantly and fully." (Fyodor Raychynets) Evoking courage, resilience, and faith in the face of overwhelming uncertainty, Ukrainian pastor and theologian Fyodor Raychynets returns to *For the Life of the World* three years after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. In conversation with Evan Rosa, Fyodor shares his reflections on fear, freedom, and the emotional and spiritual challenges of living fully in a time of war. He discusses his response to recent global political developments, the struggle of holding onto hope, and the importance of confronting fear rather than suppressing it. Drawing from the Gospel of Mark’s iteration of Jesus walking on water, his own personal grief and therapy, and the lived experience of war, Fyodor sees fear not as something to be avoided or gotten rid of, but as something to understand and face with courage. "We are in a situation where we are scared to hope." "Do not be afraid of your fears, but cope with them—learn how to deal with them—because unless you do, you cannot live your life abundantly and fully." "If I want to say to someone, ‘I love you,’ I say it. If I want to forgive, I forgive. If I want to do something meaningful, I do it now—because tomorrow is never guaranteed." "The enemy wants us to live in fear, to be paralyzed by it. But to live fully is to resist." "When Jesus scared his disciples on the water, he was bringing their fears to the surface—so that they could face them and find true freedom." **Show Notes** Image: “Walking on Water”, by Ivan Aivazovsky, Russia, 1888 Episode Summary - Ukrainian pastor and theologian Fyodor Raychynets reflects on faith, fear, and hope after three years of war. - The role of fear in spiritual and personal transformation. - A biblical perspective on confronting fear, drawn from the Gospel of Mark. - Political and emotional reactions to recent global events impacting Ukraine. - Living fully in the present as an act of resistance against fear and oppression. Faith, Fear, and Freedom - Fyodor Raychynets returns to discuss Ukraine’s ongoing struggle and his evolving faith. - "Fear to hope"—the challenge of holding onto hope when the world is falling apart. - Why fear should be faced rather than suppressed. - The spiritual wisdom of encountering fear: “When Jesus scared his disciples, it was for their good.” - The difference between being reckless, cowardly, or courageous—all of which share the common state of fear. The Ukrainian Perspective on Global Politics - How Ukraine perceives the shifting stance of U.S. foreign policy. - The impact of Zelenskyy’s visit to the Oval Office and international reactions. - The challenge of fighting for democracy when global powers redefine the terms of war. - The fear that democratic values are no longer upheld by those who once championed them. Biblical and Psychological Perspectives on Fear - Mark’s Gospel and the fear of encountering God in unexpected ways. - Fyodor quotes Carl Jung: "Where our fears lie, that is where change is most needed." - Facing fear as a practice of faith and emotional resilience. - The importance of naming fears, localizing them, and even “inviting them in for tea.” - How unprocessed fear can lead to paralysis or aggression. Living in the Present: The Antidote to Fear - Why Fyodor refuses to postpone life until after the war. - "We don’t know what tomorrow brings. So I live today, fully." - A powerful response to fear: doing good, loving openly, and forgiving freely. - The lesson of war: never get used to abnormal things. - Holding onto humanity in the face of devastation. Linked Media References - Mark 6L: 45-52 [Jesus Walks on Water](https://bible.oremus.org/?ql=608897584) - Episode 110 of For the Life of the World [A Voice from Kyiv](https://faith.yale.edu/media/a-voice-from-kyiv-fyodor-raychynets) - Episode 138 of For the Life of the World / [Ukrainian Pastor Speaks Out: Resist Evil, Be Present, and Remember How Little You Control](https://faith.yale.edu/media/ukrainian-pastor-speaks-out) - [Ukraine War Updates - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682) About Fyodor Raychynets Fyodor Raychynets is a theologian and pastor in Kyiv, Ukraine. He is Head of the Department of Theology at Ukrainian Evangelical Theological Seminary, where he teaches courses in Leadership and Biblical Studies, particularly the Gospel of Matthew. He studied with Miroslav Volf at Evangelical Theological Seminary in Osijek, Croatia. Follow him on Facebook [**here**](https://www.facebook.com/fyodor.raychynets). Production Notes - This podcast featured Fyodor Raychinets - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily Brookfield - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

Mystics and prophets have reported receiving visions from the Divine for centuries—”Thus saith the Lord…”—Hildegard of Bingen, Teresa of Avila, Ignatius of Loyola, Catherine of Siena, or Julian of Norwich. The list goes on. But what would you think if you met a seer of visions in the present day? Maybe you have. What about a prophet whose visions came like a movie screen unfurled before him, the images grotesque and vivid, all in the unsuspecting backwoods setting of Lookout Mountain, deep in the south of Tennessee. Would you believe it? Would you believe him? The beauty of fiction allows the reader to join the author in asking: What if? That’s exactly what Jamie Quatro has allowed us to do in her newest work of literary fiction, *Two-Step Devil.* What if an earnest and wildly misunderstood Christian is left alone on Lookout Mountain? What if the receiver of visions makes art that reaches a girl who’s stuck in the darkest grip of a fraught world? What if the Devil really did sit in the corner of the kitchen, wearing a cowboy hat, and what if he got to tell his own side of the Biblical story? On today’s episode novelist Jamie Quatro joins Macie Bridge to share about her relationship to the theological exploration within her latest novel, *Two-Step Devil;* her experience of being a Christian and a writer, but not a “Christian Writer”; and how the trinity of main characters in the novel speak to and open up her own deepest concerns about the state of our country and the world we inhabit. Jamie Quatro is the [*New York Times Notable*](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/books/review/i-want-to-show-you-more-by-jamie-quatro.html) author of [*I Want to Show You More*](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/03/11/broken-vows), and [*Fire Sermon*](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/books/review/fire-sermon-jamie-quatro.html). [*Two-Step Devil](https://groveatlantic.com/book/two-step-devil/)* is her latest work and is the winner of the 2024 Willie Morris Award for Southern Writing, and it’s also been named a *New York Times* Editor's Choice, among other accolades. Jamie teaches in the Sewanee School of Letters MFA program. SPOILER ALERT! This episode contains substantial spoilers to the novel’s plot, so if you’d like to read it for yourself, first grab a copy from your local bookstore, then two-step on back over here to listen to this conversation! **About Jamie Quatro** Jamie Quatro is the [*New York Times Notable*](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/books/review/i-want-to-show-you-more-by-jamie-quatro.html) author of [*I Want to Show You More*](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/03/11/broken-vows), and [*Fire Sermon*](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/06/books/review/fire-sermon-jamie-quatro.html). [*Two-Step Devil](https://groveatlantic.com/book/two-step-devil/)* is her latest work and is the winner of the 2024 Willie Morris Award for Southern Writing, and it’s also been named a *New York Times* Editor's Choice, among other accolades. Jamie teaches in the Sewanee School of Letters MFA program. **Show Notes** - Get your copy of [*Two-Step Devil* by Jamie Quatro](https://groveatlantic.com/book/two-step-devil/) - [Click here to view the art that inspired Jamie Quatro’s *Two-Step Devil*](https://www.notion.so/FAITH-YALE-EDU-Management-be71c0f3a4ae415b8f5afa32f8cb657c?pvs=21) **Production Notes** - This podcast featured Jamie Quatro with Macie Bridge - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett & Emily Brookfield - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give

It’s easy to forget how utterly scandalous the concepts of grace and forgiveness are. Grace is an absolutely unmerited, undeserved benevolence. Forgiveness is an intentional miscarriage of retributive justice, ignoring of the wrong by a wrongdoer. In Miroslav Volf’s understanding, forgiveness “decouples the deed from the doer.” Today’s episode features some highlights from Miroslav’s personal reflections about each chapter of his book *Free of Charge: Giving and Forgiving in a Culture Stripped of Grace*, including his thoughts about one of the most painful moments in his family’s history, the death of his 5-year-old brother Daniel when Miroslav was just a small boy. *Free of Charge* was published in 2006, and we just released a 10-video curriculum series through [faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge](http://faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge). It also includes a 48-page discussion guide with new material to help facilitate not just deeper reflection about giving and forgiving, but a viable, livable path toward these core Christian practices. This series is free for Yale Center for Faith & Culture email subscribers. So head over to [faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge](http://faith.yale.edu/free-of-charge) to sign up today. **Production Notes** - This podcast featured Miroslav Volf - Edited and Produced by Evan Rosa - Hosted by Evan Rosa - Production Assistance by Macie Bridge, Alexa Rollow, Zoë Halaban, Kacie Barrett, and Emily Brookfield - A Production of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture at Yale Divinity School https://faith.yale.edu/about - Support For the Life of the World podcast by giving to the Yale Center for Faith & Culture: https://faith.yale.edu/give