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Follow the Rabbit
Igor Schwarzmann, Johannes Kleske
51 episodes
3 days ago
Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.
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Society & Culture
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All content for Follow the Rabbit is the property of Igor Schwarzmann, Johannes Kleske and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.
Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.
Show more...
Society & Culture
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Niche is the New Scale: Understanding Modern Challenger Brands with Jan Thede
Follow the Rabbit
48 minutes 34 seconds
5 months ago
Niche is the New Scale: Understanding Modern Challenger Brands with Jan Thede

The sale of a hand sanitizer company for $880 million, despite only capturing 5% of the market, exemplifies how modern challengers achieve success by redefining the rules instead of adhering to them.

In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, we're joined by Jan Thede, Senior Director of Strategy at Berlin-based design agency A Color Bright, to explore their newly released challenger brand framework. Moving beyond the tired question of how to compete with market leaders, Jan reveals how successful challengers don't just fight for position—they redefine what the fight is about.

Through A Color Bright's work with brands from cycling to running to fragrances, Jan has identified a pattern: challenger brands succeed by being unique, relevant, and true. But the breakthrough insight comes from their compass framework, which maps four distinct approaches challengers use to stand out in crowded markets.

The conversation weaves through fascinating case studies that reveal these strategies in action:

  • How On running shoes didn't just improve performance technology—they made it visually obvious you were wearing something different.
  • Why Liquid Death succeeded by doing the opposite of what every water brand considered “good.”
  • How Apple in the 1990s changed personal computer competition from specs to style with ads like “Sorry, No Beige”
  • What TouchLand's $880 million exit teaches us about capturing intense loyalty in tiny market segments

But the real revelation comes through what Jan calls “the tote bag test”—a simple way to identify whether a brand has become an identity marker. Would you pay money for a logo tote bag from this brand? The question cuts through marketing speak to reveal which companies have transcended mere products to become part of how people express who they are.

From Angela Merkel spotted wearing On shoes to the cultural phenomenon of the “MUBI person,” the episode explores how challenger brands navigate the tension between niche authenticity and mainstream appeal. The discussion reveals why being everything to someone beats being something to everyone—and how the most successful challengers create new categories rather than just competing in existing ones.

Whether you're building a brand, making strategic decisions, or simply curious about how outsiders reshape markets, this conversation offers practical frameworks for understanding how challengers turn disadvantages into advantages.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction: Niches Becoming Mainstream

01:48 - Welcome Jan Thede: A Color Bright's Challenger Brand Work

03:14 - What Makes a Challenger Brand?

05:36 - The Framework: Unique, Relevant, and True

08:11 - The Compass: Four Directions for Standing Out

13:49 - On Running: Innovation vs. Market Disruption

15:54 - The Angela Merkel Moment: When Challengers Go Mainstream

20:28 - TouchLand: $880M Exit from 5% Market Share

27:41 - The Tote Bag Test: Measuring Identity Markers

31:30 - Print Publications and Physical Brand Artifacts

34:08 - From Tech Companies to Tesla: The Evolution of Merch

37:22 - Mubi vs. Netflix: Different Games, Different Categories

44:39 - Sustainability vs. Differentiation: The Trade-offs

47:27 - Closing Thoughts: Understanding Your Own Brand Choices

48:13 - Outro


Links:

  • A Color Bright
  • A Color Bright's Challenger Brand Compass framework
  • TouchLand acquisition coverage
  • The “Mubi person” Reel


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Follow the Rabbit
Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.