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Follow the Rabbit
Igor Schwarzmann, Johannes Kleske
51 episodes
15 hours ago
Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.
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Society & Culture
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Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.
Show more...
Society & Culture
Episodes (20/51)
Follow the Rabbit
Why Organizations Are Rediscovering Systems Thinking with Helge Tennø

Your organization has three departments that should be collaborating. Instead, they're locked in a silent battle—one's built a fortress, another's planning a hostile takeover, and the third is caught in the middle. The manager overseeing this chaos spends all day in meetings and has no map of what's actually happening. Sound familiar? Welcome to what our guest Helge Tennø calls "the Mexican standoff"—and it's precisely why systems thinking is making a comeback.

In this episode, we're joined by Helge Tennø, a designer-turned-strategist who spent seven years inside a global pharmaceutical company watching organizations fragment into competing silos. When he went back to consulting in 2024 and asked companies what they were buying, the answer was clear: "Not that old stuff." After 15 years of design thinking, customer journeys, and personas, organizations are exhausted. They've wrung out the cloth, and there's no water left. But here's the twist—nobody was asking for systems thinking by name. They just needed something that could help cross-functional teams speak the same language.

Here's what we're noticing: Organizations have spent a decade breaking themselves into smaller and smaller pieces, each with their own data, their own language, their own metrics. What was supposed to increase efficiency has created a coordination nightmare. The customer used to be this unifying force at the top of the org chart, but now they've become a divider—every department owns "their" piece of the customer experience and can't talk to anyone else about it. Meanwhile, managers are responsible for orchestrating these warring factions without any map of how things actually connect.

The conversation takes us through some unexpected territory:

  • Why systems thinking has a "terrible first impression" but solves problems other tools can't touch
  • How a simple causal diagram can help teams externalize their tacit knowledge
  • The difference between complicated (where systems thinking works) and complex (where it might not)
  • Why 95% of AI pilots are failing—and what that has to do with not having a map of your processes
  • The real future of AI in organizations: not replacing coordinators, but giving workers direct access to coordination tools


Chapter Markers:

00:00 - Cold Open: The Corporate Mexican Standoff

01:21 - Introduction & Welcome

04:48 - What Is Systems Thinking? A Simple Definition

10:17 - Why Good Strategy Requires Good Information

14:04 - Why Now? The Comeback of Systems Thinking

19:44 - The Mexican Standoff: When Departments Go to War

23:44 - AI's Role: 95% of Pilots Fail Without a Map

29:21 - Complex vs. Complicated: The Valid Critique

37:46 - The Agency Problem: Maps Without Power to Act

39:47 - The Generalist's Moment

47:03 - Where to Start: Resources & Next Steps

48:46 - Outro


Links:

  • Helge Tennø on LinkedIn
  • John Sterman's Introduction to System Dynamics (MIT)
  • Russell Ackoff on Systems Thinking
  • Russell Ackoff - Systems Thinking (Clip 1)
  • Omidyar Group Systems Practice Workbook PDF
  • Simon Wardley on Wardley Mapping
  • Simon Wardley - Introduction to Wardley Mapping
  • Dave Snowden - Cynefin Framework
  • Dave Snowden explaining Cynefin
  • BJ Fogg's Behavior Model


---------------

You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
3 weeks ago
49 minutes 18 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
The Economics of Little Treats: Introducing Aspiration Cascades

If you've been on TikTok lately, you've definitely seen La Bubus. Those collectible plushies have replaced Dubai chocolate as the instant cultural reference for micro-trends. But here's the thing—La Bubus, $19 strawberries, $20 smoothies, and $300 Le Creuset pots aren't random phenomena. They're symptoms of something much bigger: what Igor calls the Aspiration Cascade.

Remember when the path was clear? Get the job, buy the house, buy the car, and signal your status through big purchases. But when 50% of Gen Z still depends on their parents for monthly support, and homeownership feels like a fantasy, what happens to our aspirations? They don't disappear—they compress.

In this episode, Igor introduces the Aspiration Cascade Framework—a systematic way to understand how blocked macro-aspirations (houses, cars, extended vacations) cascade down into midi-luxuries (fancy travel, designer subscriptions), then micro-luxuries (Aesop soap, fancy danishes), and finally nano-moments (TikTok scrolling, collectible dopamine hits).

The framework reveals why:

  • You'll spend €300 on a French pot but can't imagine buying a house
  • Morning coffee rituals involve €18 beans and precision scales
  • People collect blind box toys and document the unboxing
  • "Little treats culture" isn't frivolous—it's how we preserve aspiration under economic pressure

This isn't about judging consumer choices. It's about understanding the systematic forces—economic barriers, attention fragmentation, social sharing imperatives—that reshape how we dream, spend, and signal who we are.


Chapter Markers:

  • 00:00 Introduction: Little Treats Culture
  • 03:29 Rich in Cash Flow, Poor in Assets
  • 09:00 The Aspiration Cascades Framework
  • 12:12 Why Aspirations Compress
  • 18:31 How Brands Engineer the Cascade
  • 23:54 Dopamine Culture's Role
  • 29:47 The Four Levels Explained
  • 36:53 Closing Thoughts

Links:

  • “A Little Treat”: How Younger Generations are Changing Economic Norms
  • The Rise of Dopamine Culture - by Ted Gioia
  • Desire, Dopamine, and the Internet - by L. M. Sacasas


---------------

You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
1 month ago
38 minutes 32 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Soft Clubbing: How impossible conditions create new culture

Dancing at dawn isn't rebellion. It's strategy.Igor just wanted his morning coffee. Instead, he walked into a full-blown rave at 10am, complete with turntables and wood dust, desperately clutching his toddler while navigating through impeccably dressed dancers. Welcome to soft clubbing, a trend we first identified in February that has since become delightfully bizarre.What started as quirky morning dance parties has morphed into something far more intriguing: thermal gatherings in saunas, corporate-sponsored run-and-rave combos, and coffee shops transformed into analog listening lounges with walls of vinyl and monster speakers from Singapore to Brussels.Here's what we're noticing: This isn't just about young people partying wrong. It's a masterclass in navigating impossible conditions. When traditional nightlife becomes unaffordable, when every digital interaction demands a decision, when your phone becomes a cognitive burden—you improvise. You dance at dawn because it works better with your work schedule. You steal music and play it on resurrected iPods because it's the only way to escape algorithmic control. You prioritize immediate action over systemic solutions because, quite frankly, there are limited alternatives.What we're discussing in this episode:- Why soft clubbing is simultaneously shallow Instagram content AND genuine community building- The return of music piracy isn't about broken streaming—it's about reclaiming the choice to just hit play- How vinyl walls and turntables have become the new third space aesthetic from Berlin to Singapore- Why oscillating between digital and analog isn't confusion—it's strategyEvery critique of soft clubbing—"it's just rich kids," "it's not real clubbing," "young people these days"—is exactly why it exists. When every move gets dissected, commodified, and scorned within weeks, the only rational response is to keep moving, keep experimenting, and keep refusing to commit to any single identity. As we discover, Gen Z isn't a demographic; it's a strategy.Chapter markers:00:00 - Introduction & Igor's Coffee Shop Rave 01:54 - What Is Soft Clubbing? From February Prediction to Reality 07:50 - The Many Faces: Thermal Gatherings to Corporate Run-and-Raves 09:53 - Why It Exists: Economic Reality and Lost Nightlife 17:31 - The Analog Revival: Vinyl Walls from Singapore to Brussels 26:21 - Music Piracy Returns: iPods and Escaping Algorithms 34:40 - Cognitive Overload and the Choice to Disconnect 37:03 - Gen Z as Survival Strategy, Not Demographic 39:11 - OutroLinks:- Yusuf Ntahilaja's essay "2025: The Year of 'Soft Clubbing'"


---------------

You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
1 month ago
39 minutes 32 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
From Mass Medicine to TikTok Therapy: The Great Health Unbundling with Cyril Maury

Remember when your doctor knew best? Now TikTok tells you to eat oats instead of buying Ozempic, your Apple Watch judges your sleep, and everyone's either biohacking their way to immortality or drowning in wellness anxiety. Welcome to the great unbundling of medical authority.

In this episode, we're joined by Cyril Maury from Stripe Partners, who's spent 15 years studying how people actually behave around health—not what they say they do, but what they really do. Together, we trace a fascinating pendulum swing: from the 20th century's one-size-fits-all pharmaceutical production (where your 60 kg body gets the same ibuprofen dose as someone weighing 150 kg) to today's hyper-personalized health fragmentation.

Here's what we're noticing: We're living through an explosion of diagnostic capabilities—we can measure everything from heart rate variability to glucose spikes—but we're stuck in what Cyril calls the “diagnostic-therapy gap.” Your sleep tracker tells you you're stressed, but it can't change your job. Your CGM shows blood sugar spikes, but it can't make you stop eating that croissant. It's like having a Ferrari dashboard in a bicycle.

The conversation takes us through some unexpected territory:

  • Why 30% of sleep tracker users actually sleep worse (hello, orthosomnia).
  • Wearables are making a mistake by attempting to replace human senses instead of enhancing them.
  • Cyril holds the view that the future doesn't lie in AI coaches telling you to not exercise today, but rather in conversational tools that inquire about your mood before presenting the data.


And yes, we talk about RFK Jr.'s plan to get every American wearing a wearable within four years. Since recording, the picture's gotten even more interesting—his nominee for surgeon general just happens to be the co-founder of Levels, one of America's biggest CGM companies. So we're watching a classic pattern unfold: create the market through policy, then profit from the solution. It's the perfect grift dressed up as public health—mandate the metrics, monetize the anxiety, and call it prevention while you cut actual healthcare coverage.


Chapter Markers:

00:00 - Introduction & Setup

01:57 - Welcome & Guest Introduction

04:40 - The Unbundling of Medical Authority

06:39 - Trust Collapse in Healthcare Institutions

08:58 - From Mass Medicine to DIY Dosing

12:51 - The Pendulum Swings: Mass Production to Personalization

15:21 - Two Tiers of Health Seekers

21:29 - Enablers and Repellers of Change

23:32 - The Diagnostic-Therapy Gap

28:09 - Wearables and Biological Age

32:31 - The Interoception Problem

33:28 - Why Igor Doesn't Track

37:34 - The Wrong Path: AI Prescriptions

41:40 - Designing for Real Life

44:37 - The Evolution of Health Tech

47:57 - RFK Jr.'s Wearables for All Campaign

52:13 - Performance vs. Reality

55:17 - The Underrated Health Intervention

56:42 - Outro


Links:

  • Stripe Partners: https://stripepartners.com/
  • Cyril Maury on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cyrilmaury/
  • Pew Research Center
  • Trust in Institutions Survey: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/06/24/public-trust-in-government-1958-2024/
  • BJ Fogg's Behavior Model: https://www.behaviormodel.org/
  • John Oliver segment on MAHA and RFK Jr.: https://youtu.be/3lzfH86avIc?si=OR5S_QrbRBdu2VvT


You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠

------

Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
2 months ago
57 minutes 4 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
From bucket hats to AI empires: Deep-Dives on Oasis and OpenAI

What connects a sea of white men in bucket hats at Oasis concerts to Sam Altman's relentless narrative-building around AGI? More than you might think.

This month, we're connecting dots between two very different cultural phenomena that both reveal something fascinating about how authenticity gets manufactured—and why that matters for anyone trying to understand how culture actually moves.


The Oasis Effect: When Heritage Brands Create Belonging

Igor dives deep into the cultural archaeology of the Oasis reunion, but this isn't just about nostalgia. We're talking about how a band's deliberate uniform—parkas, trainers, and Stone Island anoraks—became a way to "assert visibility, articulate class identity, and push back against marginalization."

The genius brand activations (Aldi rebranding to "Aldeh" in Manchester and Lidl releasing an anorak with a bottle opener and cooling pocket) weren't just opportunistic marketing. They tapped into something deeper: the hunger for cultural identifiers that create actual belonging, not just identity signaling.

But here's the thing—authenticity requires effort. And in a world where you can get everything without leaving your couch, the act of showing up, physically being there, becomes a form of commitment that creates psychological investment.


The AI Empire: Stories We Tell Ourselves

Johannes breaks down Karen Hao's "Empire of AI," the definitive behind-the-scenes account of OpenAI that Sam Altman didn't want you to read. But beyond the corporate drama, there's a pattern here that connects to everything from effective altruism to the "China threat" narrative.

It's the same playbook: create a story about the future that's so compelling—or terrifying—that it justifies anything you do in the present. Whether it's "we have to get there first" or "we're preventing AI from falling into the wrong hands," these become the fictional expectations that organize entire industries around them.

The problem? As Johannes puts it, "Can you just for once ask, are we the baddies?"


The Connecting Tissue

Here's what these seemingly unrelated phenomena share: they're both about the stories we tell ourselves about authenticity, community, and the future. Oasis created belonging through shared cultural codes that required real effort to participate in. OpenAI creates buy-in through narratives about inevitable futures that suspend disbelief about their business model.

One creates genuine connection through heritage and effort. The other fosters dependency by promoting performative futures and prioritizing convenience. Both work—but they work very differently.


Chapter Marks:

00:00 - Introduction & July Monthly Review Setup

01:30 - The Oasis Phenomenon: Bucket Hats and Cultural Identity

07:28 - Fashion as Cultural Signifier

12:25 - Merchandise Culture & Belonging

23:06 - Empire of AI: Sam Altman's Story Machine

29:08 - The Stories We Tell Ourselves

35:17 - Cultural Impact vs. Critical Analysis

38:40 - Closing & Recommendations


Links mentioned:

  • Karen Hao's "Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman's OpenAI": https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222725518-empire-of-ai
  • Domus article on Oasis and clothing as cultural identity: https://www.domusweb.it/en/design/2025/07/11/oasis-anorak-lidl-ten-c-stoneisland.html


---------------

You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
3 months ago
39 minutes 21 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Cognitive Debt: Are we mortgaging our thinking to AI with John V Willshire

Let's say someone asks you to suggest five global markets for a product launch. You enter it into ChatGPT, receive a response within seconds, and present it during the meeting. Six months later, when it's either a massive success or spectacular failure, someone asks, “Why did we choose these markets?” And you realize... you have no idea.

This is what our guest John Willshire calls “cognitive debt”—the cost of forgoing thinking to get answers quickly, creating a debt of understanding that, like technical debt in software, is meant to be repaid but often isn't.

John Willshire runs Smithery, a strategic design practice in the UK, and has been thinking critically about AI since 2017. In this conversation, we explore his framework for understanding how we accumulate cognitive debt, why organizations are mandating its creation at scale, and what happens when we lose the connections between our questions and our answers.

We delve into the distinctions between AI as a narrow, specific tool and the "world-eating data generalists" marketed as universal solutions. We examine why sycophantic chat interfaces make us trust statistical relationships we can't verify, especially in areas where we're weakest. And we consider what it means for agency and understanding when our thinking processes become increasingly opaque to ourselves.

This isn't just about AI; it's about the risk of prioritizing answers over understanding and its effect on human capacity.

Key Topics:

  • The metaphor of cognitive debt vs. technical debt
  • Why AI sycophancy creates invisible knowledge gaps
  • Organizational mandates for AI adoption and their consequences
  • The difference between assistive and replacement technology
  • Information as light, not liquid — and what that changes
  • Red Dwarf, Westworld, and 30+ years of AI cultural imagination
  • Designing better relationships with thinking tools


Chapters:
00:01 - Introduction & Welcome John Willshire
03:34 - What is Cognitive Debt? The Core Concept
09:50 - AI Types & Why Text Generation is Different
16:58 - AI Sycophancy: When Systems Lie to Please
24:19 - Why Organizations are Mandating Cognitive Debt
34:15 - Cultural Imagination vs. Technological Reality
40:30 - Dependency & Agency: The Real Cost
45:01 - Designing Better AI: The Path Forward

Links:

  • Smithery – Strategic design practice: https://smithery.com/
  • Cognitive Debt essay – The original article that sparked this conversation: https://smithery.com/2025/05/05/cognitive-debt/
  • John's Miro board: https://miro.com/app/board/uXjVIixZ2Bc=/?share_link_id=286253285213
Show more...
4 months ago
47 minutes 57 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
The New Campfires: From Generation Alpha to Cultural Acupuncture

When 14-year-olds design autonomous hearses, barber shops launch radio stations, and Formula 1 calls its drivers "the cast," you're witnessing the emergence of new cultural gathering points in a fragmented world.

In this June monthly review, we explore three seemingly unrelated phenomena that reveal the same underlying pattern: the post-pandemic hunger for synchronized cultural experiences is creating new forms of community in unexpected places. From a science camp in Karlsruhe to laundromats in Hong Kong to Netflix's Drive to Survive, we're seeing the emergence of what we call "new campfires"—shared cultural experiences that replace the old mass media model.

The episode begins with Johannes reflecting on four days facilitating a futures camp with Generation Alpha (13-15 year olds) at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology. Far from the stereotypes about teenage attention spans, these digital natives revealed sophisticated thinking about sustainability, seamless integration of AI into their creative process, and remarkable innovation when given permission to think big. The standout project? Two girls who reimagined autonomous vehicles as customizable hearses, complete with assistant robots and personalized final journeys.

Igor introduces the concept of "cultural acupuncture"—small interventions that reconnect us to social patterns we didn't realize we'd lost. Through the lens of "The Revenge of the Radio Station," he explores how barbershops, laundromats, and hotels worldwide are launching micro-radio stations that create synchronized cultural experiences and function as "social objects" with shared focus, conversation catalysts, and temporal dimensions that bind communities together.

The conversation concludes with an analysis of F1's transformation from sport to content empire. Liberty Media's strategy of treating Formula 1 as "not a sport but a content producer" (with drivers as "the cast") demonstrates how behind-the-scenes storytelling can revitalize entire industries. Netflix's Drive to Survive has generated $290 million for the platform and fundamentally changed how fans engage with racing—they're more interested in what drivers eat for breakfast than braking stability.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction & Generation Alpha Experience
02:46 - Science Camp: Futures Thinking with 13-15 Year Olds
16:50 - The Revenge of the Radio Station & Cultural Acupuncture
30:00 - F1's Content Transformation: "Not a Sport but a Content Producer"
44:08 - New Campfires: The Thread That Connects Everything

Links:

  • Igor's source on micro-radio stations in unexpected places: https://www.thechow.net/p/the-revenge-of-the-radio-station
  • The Economist article on F1 The Movie and Liberty Media's content strategy: http://archive.today/E6sob
  • Science Camps (KIT): https://www.zml.kit.edu/science-camps.php
  • Social Objects concept by Jyri Engeström: https://www.zengestrom.com/blog/2005/06/speaking-on-object-centered-sociality-at-reboot-updated-with-slides.html


---------------

You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
4 months ago
46 minutes 32 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
How William Gibson's Pattern Recognition Shaped Our Approach to Cultural Research

The book that taught us “cool hunting” could be a career—and why that still matters in 2025

In this special episode of Follow the Rabbit, we sit down together in the same room (a rare occurrence!) to discuss the book that fundamentally shaped our approach to cultural research: William Gibson's Pattern Recognition. Published in 2003, this post-9/11 novel introduced us to the concept of professional trend-spotting through the character of Cayce Pollard, a “cool hunter” who gets paid to sense what's emerging before it hits the mainstream.

Our conversation reveals how Gibson's vision of pattern recognition as cultural work became our north star long before we knew how to monetize it. From Cayce's sensitivity to cultural signals to her ethical dilemmas about "exploiting cool," the book provided both aspiration and instruction for navigating the ambiguous territory between discovery and commercialization.

Key themes explored:

  • How Gibson captured the essence of cultural research through aesthetics rather than technology
  • Why Cayce Pollard remains the perfect model for cultural sensitivity in an age of data overwhelm
  • The enduring relevance of pre-smartphone digital culture to our current moment of “digital detox”
  • The ethics of revealing cultural signals to brands and the tension between discovery and exploitation
  • Why feeling your way forward beats waiting for the data—and how we learned to trust our trained instincts
  • The book's prescient understanding of online communities, fan culture, and viral content


We explain why Pattern Recognition feels more relevant in 2025 than it did five years ago, as people seek authentic connections and alternatives to algorithm-driven culture. We also share how the book's central premise—“it's about pattern recognition”—became the tagline for our first website and remains the clearest definition of our work today.

Whether you're interested in cultural research, the evolution of digital communities, or simply want to understand the philosophical foundation behind Follow the Rabbit, this episode offers insight into the mindset and methodology that drive meaningful cultural observation.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction: A Special In-Person Episode
01:04 - Discovering Pattern Recognition & William Gibson
04:12 - Cayce Pollard: The Original Cool Hunter
05:52 - “Wait, this is a job?” – Career Inspiration
07:09 - The Aspirational Goal: Just Say Yes or No
08:14 - The Plot: Internet Forums & Viral Footage
10:53 - Post-National Lifestyle & Working Between the Cracks
11:38 - “How Do You Explain to Your Parents What You Do?”
12:02 - The Ethics of Cool: Why Big End Is the Villain
15:40 - Gibson's Instinct for Zeitgeist & Cultural Sensitivity
18:26 - Why 2025 Feels Perfect for Rereading
21:08 - Closing Thoughts & Future Book Discussions


Links:

  • Pattern Recognition by William Gibson (2003): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_Recognition_(novel)
  • Note about Pattern Recognition from Johannes' Digital Garden: https://garden.johanneskleske.com/pattern-recognition


If you enjoyed this format and would like us to discuss other formative books, let us know. Sometimes the most important insights come from understanding the sources that shaped how we see the world.


You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
4 months ago
23 minutes 19 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Product-First Brands and the Art of Cultural Relevance with Mike Evans

In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, Igor and Johannes welcome Mike Evans, a strategist who spent years at Red Bull Music figuring out which artists the brand should work with and how to stay connected to culture while scaling globally. Now he consults brands trying to navigate that same challenge—and he's been watching one particular phenomenon closely.

We're talking about On running shoes, the Swiss brand that somehow managed to go from zero to genuinely threatening Nike's cultural dominance by doing something radical: actually focusing on the fundamentals. The result is a fantastic product, smart distribution, and an authentic connection to their core community. It sounds simple, but as Mike reveals, it's incredibly difficult to execute—especially when you start growing and the pressure mounts to optimize everything through data rather than intuition.

What We Explore
We explore how some challenger brands are achieving success by reverting to the fundamentals instead of reinventing the playbook. Through the lens of On's rise, we examine

  • The product-culture connection: How technical innovation becomes cultural storytelling when the story lives in the product itself
  • Distribution as strategy: Why On's focus on specialist running stores created credibility that rippled outward
  • The flattening effect: How social media allows running shoe technology to jump from ultra-marathoners to city sidewalks
  • Cultural relevance at scale: The delicate balance between serving your core community and appealing to the masses
  • The Red Bull model: Mike's insights from inside one of the most culturally connected brands and what happened when they shifted focus


We dive into the cycles that seem to govern brand culture—from bundling to unbundling, from product-first to marketing-first and back again. Through examples ranging from Nike's cultural positioning to UVU's brand-first approach, we explore what happens when your 64-year-old mom starts wearing the same shoes as the coolest kids at your local run club.

The Bigger Picture
This conversation reveals something important about our current cultural moment. As Igor notes, we're witnessing the death of monoculture and the rise of what he calls “permanent niche as mainstream.” The brands winning today aren't trying to be everything to everyone—they're becoming everything to someone, then letting that authentic investment ripple outward.

Mike's perspective from Red Bull Music provides a fascinating case study. He describes how the brand's credibility came from genuinely investing in underground culture through initiatives like the Red Bull Music Academy—investments that didn't always make sense on spreadsheets but created the cultural foundation that made everything else possible. It serves as a reminder that in our data-driven world, we cannot measure some of the most important brand assets.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction & The Gibson Quote
03:16 - Meet Mike Evans: From Red Bull to Brand Strategy
05:17 - The On Phenomenon: Product-First Success
11:31 - Brand Agnosticism and Technical Pursuits
14:47 - The Story Lives in the Product
19:21 - Cultural Flattening and Authentic Connections
25:38 - Collaborations That Calibrate
28:58 - Scaling Cultural Relevance: The Core Audience Question
34:07 - Community-First vs. Brand-First Approaches
36:24 - Cycles of Culture: From Products to Marketing and Back
40:28 - Practical Advice: Data, Community, and Authentic Investment
47:20 - Closing Thoughts

Links:

  • Mike Evans on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwcevans/
  • Mike's text about product-first brands: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/mwcevans_its-not-surprising-to-see-both-on-and-birkenstock-activity-7330879497514233857-x6pf


---------------

You can also watch this episode on Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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4 months ago
48 minutes 3 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Niche is the New Scale: Understanding Modern Challenger Brands with Jan Thede

The sale of a hand sanitizer company for $880 million, despite only capturing 5% of the market, exemplifies how modern challengers achieve success by redefining the rules instead of adhering to them.

In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, we're joined by Jan Thede, Senior Director of Strategy at Berlin-based design agency A Color Bright, to explore their newly released challenger brand framework. Moving beyond the tired question of how to compete with market leaders, Jan reveals how successful challengers don't just fight for position—they redefine what the fight is about.

Through A Color Bright's work with brands from cycling to running to fragrances, Jan has identified a pattern: challenger brands succeed by being unique, relevant, and true. But the breakthrough insight comes from their compass framework, which maps four distinct approaches challengers use to stand out in crowded markets.

The conversation weaves through fascinating case studies that reveal these strategies in action:

  • How On running shoes didn't just improve performance technology—they made it visually obvious you were wearing something different.
  • Why Liquid Death succeeded by doing the opposite of what every water brand considered “good.”
  • How Apple in the 1990s changed personal computer competition from specs to style with ads like “Sorry, No Beige”
  • What TouchLand's $880 million exit teaches us about capturing intense loyalty in tiny market segments

But the real revelation comes through what Jan calls “the tote bag test”—a simple way to identify whether a brand has become an identity marker. Would you pay money for a logo tote bag from this brand? The question cuts through marketing speak to reveal which companies have transcended mere products to become part of how people express who they are.

From Angela Merkel spotted wearing On shoes to the cultural phenomenon of the “MUBI person,” the episode explores how challenger brands navigate the tension between niche authenticity and mainstream appeal. The discussion reveals why being everything to someone beats being something to everyone—and how the most successful challengers create new categories rather than just competing in existing ones.

Whether you're building a brand, making strategic decisions, or simply curious about how outsiders reshape markets, this conversation offers practical frameworks for understanding how challengers turn disadvantages into advantages.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction: Niches Becoming Mainstream

01:48 - Welcome Jan Thede: A Color Bright's Challenger Brand Work

03:14 - What Makes a Challenger Brand?

05:36 - The Framework: Unique, Relevant, and True

08:11 - The Compass: Four Directions for Standing Out

13:49 - On Running: Innovation vs. Market Disruption

15:54 - The Angela Merkel Moment: When Challengers Go Mainstream

20:28 - TouchLand: $880M Exit from 5% Market Share

27:41 - The Tote Bag Test: Measuring Identity Markers

31:30 - Print Publications and Physical Brand Artifacts

34:08 - From Tech Companies to Tesla: The Evolution of Merch

37:22 - Mubi vs. Netflix: Different Games, Different Categories

44:39 - Sustainability vs. Differentiation: The Trade-offs

47:27 - Closing Thoughts: Understanding Your Own Brand Choices

48:13 - Outro


Links:

  • A Color Bright
  • A Color Bright's Challenger Brand Compass framework
  • TouchLand acquisition coverage
  • The “Mubi person” Reel


---------------

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Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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5 months ago
48 minutes 34 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Everything to Someone: How Niches Are Becoming the New Mainstream

When a billion-dollar bet on arthouse cinema meets teenagers selling newspapers in the Hamptons, it reveals how radical proximity to your audience might be the only strategy left that works.

In this monthly review, Igor and Johannes uncover a pattern hiding in plain sight: while mainstream culture flattens into algorithmic predictability, billion-dollar businesses are being built by doing the exact opposite. From Mubi's quiet 18-year journey to unicorn status to fashion designers abandoning boardrooms for London's car boot sales to Gen Z rediscovering the radical act of local journalism—each story reveals the same truth: being everything to someone beats being something to everyone.

The conversation weaves through venture capital's surprising bet on arthouse cinema, the data goldmine of watching customers touch fabric, and why teenagers who need their parents to drive them to interviews might understand community better than any algorithm. Johannes connects it all to the post-pandemic realization of what we've been missing, while Igor warns about the pressure that comes with billion-dollar valuations.

From the Spotify Paradox (how did that artist get 500 million plays without you knowing?) to why KFC tested 400 marketing claims and still got it wrong, this episode dissects what happens when you choose authentic connection over optimized reach. Whether you're building a business, creating content, or just trying to understand why everything feels so disconnected, this conversation offers both diagnosis and cure.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction: Niches Becoming Mainstream02:14 - Monthly Review Format & Welcome02:40 - MUBI: The Billion-Dollar Art House Success11:45 - Cultural Flattening and the Marvel Effect16:00 - Fashion Designers Hit the Markets26:01 - Teenagers Create Hamptons Newspaper33:09 - The Decline of Copywriting Quality39:56 - Getting Close to Your Audience41:15 - Closing & Call to Action

Links:

  • The MUBI Moment – Why Sequoia just bet $100 Million on the Death of Mainstream
  • Dazed article on fashion designers at markets
  • New York Times story on Hampton teenage journalists
  • The Independent: Advertising is getting worse – and it might be deliberate


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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5 months ago
41 minutes 37 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Unlearning Productivity: The Radical Act of Doing Something Pointless with Christie George

When a pandemic book report becomes a four-year creative practice, it reveals how making something "pointless" by hand might be the most radical act of resistance in our optimized world.

Christie George never meant to become an artist. But when she started scribbling quotes from Jenny Odell's "How to Do Nothing" during lockdown, something unexpected happened: a simple reading practice transformed into 200 handmade pages, an exhibition, and a movement helping others memorialize their pandemic experiences.

In this conversation, Christie reveals why she ships her books one by one to people she knows, refuses to optimize for scale, and receives weekly Google Docs from strangers sharing their own creative journeys. Igor and Johannes explore how her deliberately inefficient approach challenges everything we think we know about creativity, success, and authentic connection in the digital age.

From the politics of pandemic memory to why "practice" deserves to lose its pretentious air quotes, this episode unpacks how individual acts of creative resistance can model new ways of being human. Christie's comparison of her art practice to a golf hobby brilliantly reframes what it means to spend time on something with "no point"—and why that might be exactly the point.

Whether you're seeking permission to start your own creative practice, wondering how to maintain authenticity in an algorithmic world, or simply curious about alternative models for sharing work, this conversation offers both inspiration and practical insights. Sometimes the most powerful response to a world demanding optimization is to handwrite 500 addresses.

Chapters:

00:01 - Introduction & The Power of Long Emails

02:19 - Who Is Christie George?

03:28 - From Quotes to 200 Pages: The Illustrated Book Report

08:56 - Reclaiming “Practice” Without Pretension

11:04 - What Does the Practice Actually Look Like?

15:08 - The Politics of Pandemic Memory

18:22 - Book Reports as Cultural Exchange

21:34 - Everyone's Experience Deserves Memorialization

25:02 - Beyond Reviewing: The Rashomon Effect

29:13 - Curating Your Own Taste vs. The Anointed Books

30:50 - The Great Unlearning Project

34:59 - Why It's Not Just a Hobby (Or Why That's OK)

39:36 - Suspended Disbelief and Continual Wondering

41:07 - Circumstances, Privilege, and Pandemic Timing

42:42 - How to Love Something New

45:34 - Authenticity in the Age of Performance

49:29 - Resisting the Fetishization of Scale

51:22 - The Art of Resistance to Commercialization

54:33 - The T-Shirt Question and Staying True

56:32 - Closing Thoughts & Future Conversations


Links:

  • Christie George's website/project
  • Jenny Odell's "How to Do Nothing" book
  • Christie's Practice Practice newsletter
  • James P. Carse's "Finite and Infinite Games"


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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5 months ago
56 minutes 56 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
The Rashomon Effect: When Multiple Realities Are All True

In a world of polarized perspectives, the path forward isn't choosing one truth but developing empathy for contradictory realities that exist simultaneously.

Igor and Johannes explore how we navigate a world where multiple versions of reality exist at once. Through the lens of Igor's recent trip to the United States, they unpack how media narratives, firsthand experiences, and personal encounters can tell completely different—yet equally valid—stories about the same place.

Using Akira Kurosawa's film "Rashomon" as a framework, they reveal why empathy—not just data or information—is crucial for bridging divides. Whether you're a strategist trying to understand customers, a citizen making sense of political divides, or simply someone navigating our increasingly complex world, this episode offers insights on seeing beyond single perspectives.

Johannes introduces the concept of the “comfort class”—privileged individuals whose disconnection from everyday struggles helps explain everything from political polarization to failed corporate strategies. The episode concludes with a look at how the Global South views technology and AI with optimism, challenging dominant Western narratives.

If you've ever wondered why people seem to be living in completely different realities, this episode offers a practical approach to making sense of it all.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction & Episode Overview

01:41 - Welcome Back & Travel Context

02:09 - Igor's US Travel Experience & Preparations

09:49 - The Rashomon Framework: Multiple Truths Existing Simultaneously

14:03 - Three Witnesses: Media, Geographic & Integrated Perspectives

18:18 - Research, Facts & Multiple Realities

20:22 - Designing for Empathy: Gen Z Research Example

24:38 - The Comfort Class Article & Status Anxiety

28:34 - Political Implications: Disconnection from Everyday Struggles

31:02 - Navigating Multiple Realities in Strategy Work

34:04 - Global South Perspectives on Technology & AI

37:09 - Concluding Thoughts: There Is No Big Picture

39:49 - Outro & Thanks


Links:

  • Rashomon (1950)
  • We’re Experts in Fascism. We’re Leaving the U.S. | NYT Opinion]
  • The Comfort Class Doesn't Get It
  • Johannes' Future Days Conference Reels
  • Payal Arora: From Pessimism to Promise
  • Sari Azout's talk


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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5 months ago
40 minutes 13 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Out of Love and Necessity: How Patta Uses Print to Create Cultural Depth

Why a leading brand chooses to tell its story through limited-circulation magazines in the digital age

In this follow-up to our indie magazine exploration, we welcome Guillaume "Gee" Schmidt, co-founder of Patta, to discuss how print magazines function within contemporary brand ecosystems. What began as a sneaker boutique in Amsterdam has evolved into a multifaceted cultural force spanning clothing, music, sports, and social initiatives, with their biannual print magazine serving as a connective tissue between these elements.


The conversation explores how magazines shaped Guillaume's worldview from an early age, from The Source to Fantastic Man, before examining why Patta launched their own publication during the pandemic. “Magazines slow down time,” Guillaume explains, contrasting the deliberate experience of page-turning with the rapid pace of digital scrolling. This deceleration creates space for deeper storytelling and unexpected cultural connections that reflect Patta's philosophy of operating between established categories.


Most revealing is Guillaume's articulation of the magazine's purpose: not as a revenue generator, but as a cultural artifact that embodies Patta's ethos of “out of love and necessity rather than profit and novelty.” Through editorial choices that deliberately juxtapose diverse influences—from grime artists to political philosophers—the magazine materializes Patta's commitment to representing Blackness while refusing to be pigeonholed. The conversation highlights how physical media creates different relationships with audiences than digital content, revealing the continued relevance of tactile experiences in building authentic community connections.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction & Patta's Evolution

03:42 - Patta's Origin Story

08:32 - Magazines as Cultural Touchpoints

12:05 - Why Create a Print Magazine Today

17:03 - Beyond Monetization: Magazines as Brand Expression

24:46 - Content and Cultural Connections

30:33 - Blackness as Starting Point

35:01 - Magazine Distribution and Community Building

39:14 - Digital vs. Physical Media Ecosystem

42:35 - Future Directions for Patta and Print


Links:

  • Patta: https://www.patta.nl/
  • Patta Magazine (available only in Patta stores)
  • Follow the Rabbit s04e11 - Indie Magazines: https://creators.spotify.com/pod/show/follow-the-rabbit/episodes/From-Davos-to-your-Inbox-Narratives--Newsletters--and-Nuances-with-Adrian-Monck-e31ad2o 


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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6 months ago
43 minutes 13 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Indie Magazines: From productive nostalgia to cultural anchors

In a world obsessed with digital content, why are luxury print magazines not just surviving but thriving?

In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, we explore the persistent appeal of print magazines in our hyper-digital world. Sparked by a New York Times article about “the revenge of the niche fashion magazine,” we examine how these physical artifacts create communities, serve as premium spaces for advertisers, and offer respite from algorithm-driven experiences.

Drawing from Johannes' long-standing connection to Monocle magazine and broader industry observations, we look at how print publications are finding new relevance not despite our digital immersion but because of it. The discussion moves beyond nostalgia to explore how tactile media creates deeper engagement, how luxury brands seek “safe spaces” away from controversial online environments, and why younger demographics increasingly turn to print as an alternative to screen-based content.

From indie magazine shops in Berlin to brand-created publications like Patta's community-focused magazine, the episode offers insight into how print media is evolving from a mere information vehicle to a cultural touchpoint that brings people together in physical spaces.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction & Context

02:35 - The "Print is Back" Cycle

04:10 - Johannes' Personal Connection to Print Magazines

05:07 - How Magazines Survived the iPad Era

07:15 - Niche Markets and the Myth of "Winner Takes All"

10:13 - The Cultural Influence of Indie Magazines

13:02 - Community Building Through Physical Media

18:45 - The Role of Collectibility and Advertising

21:37 - The Siemens Example: Digital Products in Print

25:29 - Nostalgia as Alternative History

28:52 - Digital Fatigue and Young Readers' Preferences

35:40 - Bringing People Together: The Monocle Patron Circle

39:17 - Print as a Counterpoint to AI-Generated Content


Links:

  • NY Times – ‘The Revenge of the Niche Fashion Magazine’: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/07/style/fashion-magazines.html
  • do you read me?! Shop: https://doyoureadme.de/en
  • Monocle: https://monocle.com
  • Patta (Shop & Magazine): https://www.patta.nl/
  • Digital Dualism as critizised by Nathan Jurgenson: https://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2011/02/24/digital-dualism-versus-augmented-reality/
  • Sources for the statistics:
    • 2021 MPA Factbook: https://www.newsmediaalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2021-MPA-Factbook_REVISED-NOV-2021.pdf
    • Bold Entity: https://boldentity.com/print-marketing-a-millennials-perspective/
    • Electro IQ: https://electroiq.com/stats/print-marketing-statistics/


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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7 months ago
40 minutes 25 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
From Davos to your Inbox: Narratives, Newsletters, and Nuances with Adrian Monck

How the former Davos communications chief navigates the tension between algorithmic demands and journalistic integrity in his quest to make sense of a world that resists coherence

In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, we explore the changing landscape of cultural impact with Adrian Monck, whose newsletter "Seven Things" has become an intriguing case study in post-institutional thought leadership. After working in television journalism, academia, and finally as the World Economic Forum's communications architect for 13 years, Monck now creates a weekly geopolitical digest that reaches over 160,000 readers—all while earning "nothing" and negotiating holidays with himself.

Our discussion delves into the tensions that define today's media ecosystem: the algorithmic punishment for including links (which doubled Monck's engagement when removed), the paradoxical freedom of writing without institutional constraints, and the challenge of maintaining critical perspective in a world that resists coherent narratives. As Monck puts it with remarkable candor, the underlying message of his 40 years in journalism is "incoherence"—the world simply does not make sense in the tidy ways we often assume.

What emerges is a sophisticated investigation into how media consumption and creation are fundamentally altering. We are watching the alteration of authority and trust, similar to how we have seen the emergence of third places and the re-contextualization of health as a luxury in earlier seasons. Monck is a unique hybrid: someone whose insider knowledge lends credibility, but whose independence allows for refreshing candor about anything from tech millionaires' "craven" emails to the shifting economics of written media (which he claims is "going the way of poetry").

Monck's experience demonstrates how we are all negotiating the tension between algorithmic pressures and human judgment. His weekly newsletter, which is a deliberate blend of geopolitics, economics, technology, and cultural observations, symbolizes a type of resistance to attention fragmentation by providing seven carefully picked insights rather than an unending scroll.


Chapters:

00:01 - Introduction to Adrian Monck and his background 

03:10 - Starting a "publishing empire" with Seven Things newsletter 

05:52 - Adrian's writing process and weekly discipline 

07:35 - Finding unique angles that big media organizations miss 

11:15 - The unpredictability of audience engagement 

12:43 - Platform challenges and LinkedIn's algorithm 

14:22 - Experimenting with different platforms (Substack, Threads, Bluesky) 

17:26 - The shift toward video content and its dangers 

20:17 - Maintaining editorial restraint in the attention economy 

24:56 - Approaching criticism with nuance and experience 

27:49 - The incoherence of the world from 40 years in journalism 

30:50 - Media framing and selective focus in conflict reporting 

34:13 - The future of newsletters as "modern poetry" 

38:04 - How Adrian decides what to read and curates information 

41:43 - Three newsletters Adrian recommends


Links:

  • Seven Things Newsletter by Adrian Monck
    • On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/7-things-6598191513426030592/
    • On Substack: https://7thin.gs/
  • Adrian Monck’s Recommendations
    • Sinica by Kaiser Y Kuo: https://www.sinicapodcast.com/
    • Pekingnology by Zichen Wang: https://www.pekingnology.com/
    • Chartbook by Adam Tooze: https://adamtooze.substack.com/


---------------

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Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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7 months ago
43 minutes 18 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Monthly Rewind: Luxury Markets, ADHD Soundscapes, and Conversations as Culture

In this monthly recap episode, Igor and Johannes reflect on cultural phenomena that caught their attention during March 2025, exploring luxury consumption, wellness trends, and the evolving nature of media consumption.

From the luxury supermarket Erewhon and its influence on brand perception to the complex social implications of GLP-1 drugs and the fascinating personalization of sound through the Endel app. The hosts conclude with insights on how long-form conversations are reshaping our relationship with media consumption and knowledge formation.


Key themes:

  • How luxury food retailers like Erewhon transform shopping into status signaling
  • The emerging social dynamics around weight loss medications
  • Personal soundscapes as a form of positive algorithmic personalization
  • The shift toward conversations as units of culture and knowledge production
  • How consumer products reflect our collective search for belonging


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction & Monthly Format02:55 - Erewhon: The Business of Aspirational Groceries12:25 - Status Signaling & The Loneliness Connection17:45 - GLP-1 on Campus: Elle's New Column on Student Usage24:52 - Andal: Personalized Soundscapes for ADHD Focus35:24 - Conversations as Culture: The New Unit of Knowledge Formation41:05 - Video vs. Audio: Different Ways to Experience Dialogue47:51 - Long-form Conversations & Human Connection52:27 - Closing Thoughts


Suggested Links:

  1. Erewhon-related content:
    • Vogue Business article about Erewhon: https://www.voguebusiness.com/story/consumers/the-business-of-erewhon uID=16d13b220ccb049d0b0aeccdeb34f14634765ffc5ec3b5735cbf184ebf8c07f2
  2. Touchland:
    • Article/coverage about their growth from 16M to 100M revenue: https://www.nbcnews.com/select/shopping/touchland-hand-sanitizer-rcna197416
  3. GLP-1/Ozempic coverage:
    • Elle magazine's new column on GLP-1 drugs: https://www.elle.com/ozempic/
    • The specific article about "GLP-1 drugs on campus“: https://www.elle.com/beauty/health-fitness/a63787623/ozempic-secret-college-campuses-trend-explained/
  4. Endel app:
    • Endel's official website: https://endel.io/
  5. Conversations as culture:
    • Kayle Chayka's newsletter post about "conversations as the new unit of culture“: https://onethingnewsletter.substack.com/p/conversations-are-the-new-unit-of
    • Jeff Staple's dinner conversation video/series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSpLRsQ1vsw&t=695s
  6. Other references:
  • Information about Jellycats and blind box collectibles: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4g34x51en8o


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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7 months ago
52 minutes 30 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Adventures in Cultural Strategy with Amy Daroukakis

What happens when 90% of our cultural insights come from just 10 cities? 

In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, Igor and Johannes welcome cultural strategist Amy Daroukakis, who shares her provocative thesis that 90% of trend reports come from just 10 cities in the world—creating a homogenized view of culture that fails to capture global diversity. With 20 years of experience working across 60+ countries, Amy offers insight into how this narrow lens affects everything from business decisions to physical spaces.

The conversation explores how true curiosity has become the essential skill in an age of AI and algorithm-driven content. Through stories spanning Korean kimchi robots to secret trend rooms for major retailers, they unpack how human storytelling and cultural context provide what AI cannot: meaningful connections between seemingly disparate elements.

Key themes include:

  • The problem with current trend reporting and its bias toward Western/Global North perspectives
  • Amy's project to gather 52 diverse global voices for 2025 cultural insights
  • How curiosity becomes both a personal practice and a professional advantage
  • The challenges of translating cultural trends into actionable business strategies
  • Why the ability to make connections across contexts becomes increasingly valuable as AI handles the mundane


This thoughtful discussion reveals how to move beyond "trends for trends' sake" toward deeper cultural understanding—and why your ability to get lost in rabbit holes might be your most valuable asset in the coming era.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction & Amy's Background

05:17 - The Problem with Global Trend Reports

08:53 - Building the Trend Folder & Democratizing Information

12:00 - Curiosity vs Professional Interest in Trends

14:34 - The Challenge of Being Curious in Organizations

16:16 - Human Storytelling vs AI in Cultural Insights

21:44 - The Disconnect Between Research and Application

23:23 - Target's Secret Trend Rooms: A Personal Story

25:32 - From Ta-Da Presentations to Co-Curiosity Building

28:00 - AI Tools and the Value of Human Curiosity

30:12 - From Technology Trends to Cultural Phenomena

31:52 - What Trend Reports Reveal About Companies

35:56 - Kimchi Robots: Connecting Culture and Innovation

39:46 - Multiple Truths: Everything Everywhere All at Once

43:21 - Honest Conversations About Organizational Speed

46:18 - Curiosity as the Key Skill in the Age of AI

49:26 - Finding Connections in Chaos

54:30 - Sensory Approaches to Cultural Understanding

56:35 - Closing Thoughts: Trends as Manifestations of Curiosity


Follow Amy on LinkedIn


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Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

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Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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7 months ago
58 minutes 37 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
The $19 Strawberry: Decoding Luxury, Craft, and Viral Outrage

The $19 strawberry isn't ridiculous—it's the perfect artifact for decoding our conflicted relationship with luxury, authenticity, and outrage culture.

In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, Igor and Johannes examine the viral phenomenon of the $19 strawberry sold at Erewhon, the luxury LA supermarket previously featured in their Season 3 discussions. What begins as apparent late-stage capitalism absurdity reveals itself as a complex intersection of Japanese craftsmanship, global logistics, social media dynamics, and changing luxury consumption patterns.

The conversation traces how these rare Tochigi Prefecture strawberries—requiring seven years of cross-breeding and extreme cultivation care—transform from agricultural achievement to viral content. Through examining both the supply side (Japanese dedication to craft perfection, complex air shipping logistics) and the demand side (performative consumption, health signaling), the hosts reveal how this seemingly ridiculous luxury item perfectly encapsulates numerous cultural currents.

Key themes include:

  • Japan's centuries-long tradition of luxury fruit cultivation and gifting
  • The logistics challenge of delivering ultra-fresh produce across continents
  • How Western cultures romanticize Japanese craftsmanship as an antidote to digital disembodiment
  • The psychology behind viral "I tried it so you don't have to" content
  • The tension between sustainability concerns and luxury consumption
  • How outrage itself becomes part of the attention economy that propels phenomena like this


The episode offers a thoughtful exploration of how a simple strawberry becomes a mirror reflecting our complicated relationship with luxury, craft, consumption, and digital performance.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction & Strawberry Season
01:57 - The $19 Strawberry Phenomenon
05:01 - Japanese Luxury Fruit Traditions
11:00 - Craft, Logistics, and True Costs
17:25 - Digital Culture and Performative Consumption
23:43 - Sustainability Tensions and Status Signaling
27:29 - Irrationality, Art, and Exclusivity
29:58 - Closing Thoughts


Links:

  • Follow the Rabbit s03e04 – The Evolution of Health as a Luxury https://youtu.be/mgsRwe9pEk8 
  • Erewhon's viral strawberry moment: https://www.tiktok.com/@alyssaantocii/video/7474331662508166430
  • Truly Classy – A Look Inside Japan’s World of Luxury Fruits: https://www.trulyclassy.com/look-inside-japans-world-luxury-fruits/
  • Food&Wine – Why Does This Single Strawberry Cost $19?: https://www.foodandwine.com/erewhon-viral-tochiaika-strawberry-11685638
  • People – Erewhon’s ‘Dystopian’ $19 Strawberry Has the Internet Outraged: https://people.com/erewhon-s-dystopian-strawberry-has-the-internet-outraged-11688868
  • Hiro Dreams of Sushi documentary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiro_Dreams_of_Sushi
  • Neil Postman - Amusing Ourselves to Death: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

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Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

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7 months ago
31 minutes 4 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Curating in the Age of AI with Sari Azout

From cynicism to curiosity: How personal taste becomes the ultimate skill in an AI-powered world

The topic of AI often appears deceptively binary: those who believe it will transform everything versus those who refuse to acknowledge its real-world benefits despite the hype. In this episode of Follow the Rabbit, Igor and Johannes are joined by Sari Azout, founder of Sublime, a digital curation tool, who published an essay on exactly this nuanced middle ground that caught our attention. The conversation explores how AI is transforming curation from a leisurely hobby into a crucial skill for creativity and knowledge work.

Moving beyond the binary narratives of AI as either dystopian threat or techno-utopian savior, the discussion reveals how personal taste, judgment, and refined attention become increasingly valuable in a world where AI can generate abundant content but struggles with discernment. Drawing from her experience building Sublime and her essay that caught Igor and Johannes' attention, Sari offers practical insights into how she collaborates with AI as a creative partner rather than a replacement.

The conversation weaves together several key themes:

  • The evolution from initial AI skepticism to discovering its potential as a thinking companion
  • How personal collections of inspiration can train AI to reflect your unique perspective
  • The challenge of developing taste in an algorithm-dominated world
  • The difference between automated outputs and AI-augmented human creativity
  • The unexpected ways AI tools can assist those with different cognitive styles


Through specific examples and practical applications, the episode offers a nuanced view of how curation — the skill of collecting, connecting, and refining ideas — becomes the foundation for meaningful AI collaboration. It suggests that while technical skills may be automated, the ability to make aesthetic and conceptual judgments becomes increasingly valuable.


Chapters:

00:00 - Introduction & Binary AI Narratives

07:15 - Beyond Automation: AI as Creative Partner

11:13 - The Increasing Value of Taste and Curation

14:39 - Practical Examples of Claude Collaboration

20:13 - Attention and Focus in Digital Environments

29:23 - The Missing Storytelling from AI Leaders

34:05 - Developing Taste in an Algorithmic World

39:56 - Accessibility and Diverse Thinking Styles

43:13 - Breaking Free of Algorithmic Programming


Links:

  • Sublime (Beta signup link): https://sublime.app/invite/0xnw0jSr
  • Sari on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saraazout/
  • Sari on Substack: https://sublimeinternet.substack.com/
  • Sari Azout's essay on taste in the age of AI: https://sariazout.substack.com/p/the-art-of-curation-in-the-age-of
  • Finite and Infinite Games by James P. Carse: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_and_Infinite_Games
  • Why Anthropic’s Claude Is a Hit with Tech Insiders - The New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/13/technology/claude-ai-anthropic.html 


This episode offers a refreshing perspective that moves beyond both techno-optimism and techno-pessimism, suggesting instead that the most valuable human contribution in the AI era might be our unique ability to curate, judge, and refine — skills that require us to resist algorithmic programming and cultivate our own distinct taste.


---------------

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Spotify⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠

Follow the Rabbit on ⁠Youtube⁠


Follow the Rabbit is a Known Unknowns production

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ 

Known Unknowns on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠


Follow the Rabbit is hosted by Igor Schwarzmann & Johannes Kleske

Find out more about ⁠⁠Igor Schwarzmann⁠⁠ 

Find out moire about ⁠⁠Johannes Kleske⁠⁠

Show more...
8 months ago
41 minutes 57 seconds

Follow the Rabbit
Follow the Rabbit feels like eavesdropping on a fascinating conversation between two well-read friends at a Berlin coffee shop—smart without being pretentious, critical without being cynical, and deeply engaged with contemporary culture while maintaining historical perspective. The podcast occupies a unique space between trend forecasting, cultural criticism, and philosophical inquiry, delivered with warmth, humor, and genuine enthusiasm for understanding how the world works.