Alec Harrison and Brian Gorman return from a short break to talk all things certifications, Copilot, and the curious evolution of learning with AI. Alec shares his experience taking Microsoft’s new Applied Skills exams for Copilot Studio, while Brian gives some veteran insight into two decades of Microsoft certifications and how the new role-based system compares.
They debate whether AI tools are replacing junior engineers, discuss what makes modular Infrastructure as Code essential, and riff on the future of “speech-to-IaC” — where voice meets automation. Plus, Brian shares his own upcoming video course and gives pragmatic advice for anyone chasing their next cert.
👉 Explore Microsoft Learn’s Applied Skills here: https://learn.microsoft.com/credentials/applied-skills
🎧 Listen, comment, and tell us: Is modular Bicep overkill, or best practice?
#EngineerInTheLoop #Azure #AI #Copilot #MicrosoftLearn #Bicep #Terraform #Certifications
Founder of .NET Conf and 20-year Microsoft MVP Javier Lozano joins Engineer in the Loop to talk about what’s changed—and what hasn’t—in web development. We riff on MVP categories, why demos are easy and production is hard, and how AI is a force multiplier that still demands human judgment. Javier shares “SIMON” (Simplified Minutia and Operational Nonsense), his vision for agents that run conference ops, plus practical takes on trust, determinism, and the trade-off between faster output and more defects. We hit identity’s growing role, WebAssembly’s promise, and why tools (the picks and shovels) often win the gold rush. If you build .NET apps, run cloud workloads, or just want a grounded view of AI’s near future, this one’s packed with hard-earned lessons and optimistic realism.
Tech news for Oct 3rd, 2025https://github.com/github/copilot-clihttps://devblogs.microsoft.com/azure-sdk/azure-sdk-release-september-2025/https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/securitycopilotblog/from-idea-to-security-copilot-agent-create-customize-and-deploy/4458516
From Exchange 2003 to Azure landing zones, Elliott shares 15 years of lessons on moving beyond VMs, building platform ops that devs actually love, and keeping cloud costs sane.
Key Takeaways
Platform engineering > “just cloud”: Guardrails, vending, and templates win hearts (and roadmaps).
FinOps framing: Translate infra to “cost per sale/visit” and budgets to anomaly alerts.
PaaS by default: Avoid VMs unless there’s a clear reason.
DX = adoption: The easier you make it, the faster devs ship safely.
AI is force-multiplier, not autopilot: Keep humans in the loop for security, design, and intent.
Chapters
00:00 – Cold Open & Setup
Welcome to Engineering the Loop. Alec introduces Elliott Leighton-Woodruff, Principal Architect at Synextra, and shouts out his pro studio setup.
01:18 – Origin Story: From Helldesk to Architect
Elliott’s path through managed services, Exchange migrations, and into Azure—why his “O365 is only for SMBs” take aged badly and what that taught him about platform shifts.
03:00 – Cloud Era Pivot
From AD/Exchange to Azure/Entra, early lift-and-shift vs. today’s PaaS-first mindset: “How do we avoid servers?” and drive ROI/security simultaneously.
04:32 – Compliance Across the Pond
GDPR, UK/EU data residency, and pragmatic risk: why proper data handling matters more than headlines—and the nuance of Microsoft’s US metadata access.
09:08 – SaaS/PaaS > IaaS & Vendor Lock Worries
Why “vendor lock-in” is often less risky than running your own racks—and how integrated ecosystems (Microsoft, Apple) win on user experience.
14:48 – IaC Choices in the Wild
ARM → Terraform → Bicep (and back). When Terraform’s versatility wins, when Bicep is “good enough,” and how state files can be a superpower for diffing real changes.
17:49 – Standards & Modules
Minimal code, shared module repos, and composable templates; using internal modules to enforce good defaults and speed delivery across clients.
21:10 – Developer Experience (DevEx) as the Sell
Resource vending, guardrails, and starter pipelines so devs ship .NET without touching VNet/front door/APIM—but still stay within policy.
26:40 – Cost Control & Landing Zones 101
What an Azure landing zone really is (governance + network + RBAC + policy). Budgets, quotas, and anomaly alerts to prevent “surprise bills.”
32:59 – Real Billing War Stories
Costly misconfigs (AKS + Log Analytics, Custom Neural Voice hosting), forgiveness policies, and AWS vs. Azure leniency, plus why alerts matter.
38:19 – Spot & Batch = Cheap Compute
Spot VMs and batch patterns for big workloads; tradeoffs and when to queue jobs for 80%+ savings.
41:45 – FinOps Mindset Shift
Talk in cost per X (visit/transaction/customer) instead of monthly totals; why scaling beats fixed VMs when revenue is on the line.
49:50 – Agents, “Vibe Coding,” and Reality Checks
AI can ship features, but humans still set direction and prevent face-palm security mistakes (like leaking waitlist emails via DevTools).
52:19 – The Junior Talent Question
If agents do the grunt work, where do juniors learn? Potential futures for hiring, training, and the skills that stick.
55:49 – Hybrid, Edge, and HCI Use Cases
Azure Stack/HCI examples (manufacturing/food QA) and the appeal of local inference with cloud aggregation.
57:39 – The (Maybe) Dystopian Future
Meetings → summaries → agents; what stays human, what becomes automated—and why good platform ops multiply teams.
58:08 – How to Reach Elliott & Synextra
Where to follow Elliott and Synextra; why they give away “do-it-yourself” playbooks and when to call them for the hard stuff.
Platform engineering > “just cloud”: Guardrails, vending, and templates win hearts (and roadmaps).
FinOps framing: Translate infra to “cost per sale/visit” and budgets to anomaly alerts.
PaaS by default: Avoid VMs unless there’s a clear reason.
DX = adoption: The easier you make it, the faster devs ship safely
AI is force-multiplier, not autopilot: Keep humans in the loop for security, design, and intent
AI News For October 2nd
Here's a little life update and AI/Tech news for October 1st 2025
[Anthropic Joins Microsoft 365 Copilot](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2025/09/24/expanding-model-choice-in-microsoft-365-copilot/)
[Claude Sonnet 4.5 Is Out!](https://www.techradar.com/ai-platforms-assistants/claude/anthropics-claude-sonnet-4-5-is-available-now-the-best-ai-model-in-the-world-for-real-world-agents-coding-and-computer-use)
[Amazon unveils new generation of AI-powered Kindle and other devices](https://apnews.com/article/amazon-ai-alexa-kindle-echo-4e2983e166b8b62b2a3e51fc30a4a46c)
“GPT-5 is going to kill OpenAI.” That’s the headline making the rounds—but it’s wrong. In this episode, Alec Harrison breaks down why the panic is overblown, why those infamous GPT-5 launch graphs don’t tell the real story, and how OpenAI is shifting from hype to stability.
We’ll zoom out on the bigger picture: OpenAI’s rapid rise, the reality of innovation cycles, and why competition from Anthropic, Google, Meta, and others actually makes the whole industry stronger. From enterprise adoption to government deals, GPT-5 isn’t a death knell—it’s the start of OpenAI’s next chapter.
If you’ve been wondering whether GPT-5 signals decline or maturity, this episode will give you the context you need.
👉 Stick around until the end for Alec’s take on what this launch means for the future of AI.
Ready for a master-class in mentoring, managing, and staying sane in the age of AI? In this no-filter chat, Alec Harrison and Brian Gorman welcome returning guest Cameron Presley—engineer, functional-programming fan, and self-proclaimed “hot-take factory.” Together we cover:
From Junior to Jedi: practical ways leaders can help devs find their lane—and how to nudge the rock-stars and shooting stars on your team without burning them out.
When Life Smacks Your Sprint Plan: candid advice on supporting teammates through family crises, caregiver duties, or just plain “I’m tapped-out” seasons.
The AI Performance Debate: Microsoft’s leaked memo that says “Using AI is no longer optional”—and what mandatory Copilot metrics could mean for your next review. Business Insider
Networking That Doesn’t Suck: why real-world user groups, conferences, and mastermind circles beat random LinkedIn cold-pitches every time.
Managing Your Toughest Employee—You: swapping stories on the brutal self-talk solo consultants dish out, and healthier ways to keep yourself accountable.
Expect spicy sound bites, a couple of trains barreling through Brian’s mic, and plenty of actionable tips for every rung of the career ladder—from fresh grads to CTOs.
Business Insider: “Microsoft pushes staff to use internal AI tools more, and may consider this in reviews.” (June 27, 2025) — https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-internal-memo-using-ai-no-longer-optional-github-copilot-2025-6
(Did we promise another resource and miss it? Ping us and we’ll drop it here!)
Ready for a master-class in mentoring, managing, and staying sane in the age of AI? In this no-filter chat, Alec Harrison and Brian Gorman welcome returning guest Cameron Presley—engineer, functional-programming fan, and self-proclaimed “hot-take factory.” Together we cover:
From Junior to Jedi: practical ways leaders can help devs find their lane—and how to nudge the rock-stars and shooting stars on your team without burning them out.
When Life Smacks Your Sprint Plan: candid advice on supporting teammates through family crises, caregiver duties, or just plain “I’m tapped-out” seasons.
The AI Performance Debate: Microsoft’s leaked memo that says “Using AI is no longer optional”—and what mandatory Copilot metrics could mean for your next review. Business Insider
Networking That Doesn’t Suck: why real-world user groups, conferences, and mastermind circles beat random LinkedIn cold-pitches every time.
Managing Your Toughest Employee—You: swapping stories on the brutal self-talk solo consultants dish out, and healthier ways to keep yourself accountable.
Expect spicy sound bites, a couple of trains barreling through Brian’s mic, and plenty of actionable tips for every rung of the career ladder—from fresh grads to CTOs.
Business Insider: “Microsoft pushes staff to use internal AI tools more, and may consider this in reviews.” (June 27, 2025) — https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-internal-memo-using-ai-no-longer-optional-github-copilot-2025-6
(Did we promise another resource and miss it? Ping us and we’ll drop it here!)
📄 Episode Description:
In this episode, we welcome back Cameron Presley, now the owner of Small Batch Solutions, to dive deep into the real work of building better engineers—not just better apps. We talk about how to create environments where interns and junior developers can thrive, why mentorship is a long game, and how AI might be reshaping the way we learn (for better or worse).
From Pokémon metaphors and force pushes to production, to tough love truths about bad internship programs—this one’s packed with hard-earned wisdom, spicy takes, and plenty of laughs.
Plus:
🔥 Why some teams should not hire interns
🌱 What it really takes to grow junior talent
🤖 The role (and limits) of AI in developer learning
🧪 Real talk on tests, professionalism, and legacy code
🔗 Links & Mentions:
🎉 KCDC – Kansas City Developer Conference: https://kcdc.info
🧠 Cameron Presley: blog.softwarementor.com
🐦 Cameron on BlueSky: @thesoftwarementor.com
🚀 Alec’s company: https://eitl.ai
In this thought-provoking episode, Alec Harrison sits down with Peter Swimm—founder of Toyleville and a veteran in conversational AI—to unpack the real value of AI in today’s business world. From the early days of teaching internet literacy in Chicago libraries to advising enterprises on AI adoption, Peter brings a rare blend of empathy, technical depth, and straight talk.
They discuss why most businesses are still stuck in Excel purgatory, the risk of blindly chasing AI hype, and how true innovation means aligning technology with human strengths—not replacing them. They also explore the messy reality of model upgrades, the danger of centralized AI monopolies, and how smaller companies can outmaneuver giants by embracing context, creativity, and collaboration.
Whether you’re an enterprise leader, startup founder, or just AI-curious, this episode will challenge your assumptions and leave you asking better questions.
🔗 Links:
peoplemakeitbetter.com – Peter’s consulting agency and info on Toyleville
Nebraska.Code 2025 is right around the corner, but before you pack for Lincoln, join Alec and Brian as they tackle the hottest developer question of 2025: How do I harness AI agents without handing the keys to my codebase—or my laptop—over to Big Tech?
In this candid therapy-session-meets-tech-deep-dive, we unpack everything from Model Context Protocol (the “USB-C of AI apps”) to rolling your own “Cursor-style” IDE assistant. You’ll hear:
The exact trade-offs between GPT-4-class models in the cloud and leaner Phi 3/Llama models you can run on-prem with Foundry Local for air-gapped privacy.
Why agent-driven search is replacing static web pages—and how building an Azure OpenAI chatbot today keeps your organization off the “left behind” list.
A pragmatic roadmap for leveling-up: free AI-900 / AI-102 learning paths, sample GitHub repos, and the one-day AgentCon tour that drops actionable agent patterns straight into your toolbelt.
Whether you’re a developer sick of dependency-update tickets or an underwriter who’d rather review the interesting policies, this episode shows you how AI can erase the drudgery—without erasing your intellectual property.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| NEBRASKA.CODE 2025 – REGISTRATION |
| https://whova.com/portal/registration/IOhJf-6D449qSu-mYLa9/ |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| AGENTCON 2025 – KANSAS CITY (Global AI) |
| https://globalai.community/chapters/kansas-city/events/agentcon-2025-kansas-city/ |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| GET STARTED WITH FOUNDRY LOCAL (Microsoft Learn) |
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/ai-foundry/foundry-local/get-started |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MICROSOFT CERTIFIED: AZURE AI FUNDAMENTALS (AI-900) |
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/credentials/certifications/azure-ai-fundamentals/ |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| VS CODE + MCP SAMPLE REPO (mcp-for-beginners) |
| https://github.com/microsoft/mcp-for-beginners |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
For a while now, AI and tech headlines have been dominated by layoffs and market shifts. But what if a crucial, yet often overlooked, factor was at play? I'm experimenting with a new narrative style in this video to break down Section 174 of the US tax code. Discover how changes to this R&D deduction policy, from its inception in 1954 to the impactful 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, quietly impacted everything from startup funding to the massive tech layoffs we've seen. We'll also cover the breaking news of its recent reversal on July 4th, 2025, and what that means for the future of innovation in the US.
#AILayoffs #TaxCode #Section174 #RDTaxCredit #TechLayoffs
🚀 Description:
In this packed episode of Engineering the Loop, we break down everything you need to know from Microsoft Build 2025—and trust us, it’s not just incremental upgrades. From the rise of AI agents and the Model Context Protocol (MCP) to the total transformation of search, software development, and even how you cool a data center, this year’s Build proves Microsoft is all in on an AI-first future.
We cover:
Why MCP might replace traditional APIs (and kill search engines as we know them)
How Copilot is leveling up with Agent Mode and SRE capabilities
Running your own copilots locally with AI Foundry Local
The wild vision of NL Web for conversational internet
And why every developer needs to pay attention—fast
Whether you’re a developer, an architect, or just fascinated by what’s next in AI, this episode will catch you up and spark ideas.
⏱️ Chapters:
00:00 – Welcome & Build 2025 Overview
Kickoff and why this year’s conference felt like a seismic shift.
02:30 – Agents and MCP 101
What are agents? What is Model Context Protocol? Why do they matter so much?
10:20 – Copilot Everywhere
Copilot Studio, Copilot Agent Mode, GitHub Copilot Chat, and the rise of SRE agents.
19:15 – AI Foundry Local & Bring Your Own Models
How you can run and fine-tune your own models—locally and securely.
25:40 – NL Web & The Death of Search
Could conversational agents replace traditional search engines?
31:00 – Data Center Innovations & Sustainability
Immersive cooling, carbon negativity, and the future of green AI infrastructure.
35:10 – Developer Productivity Supercharged
Swagger specs, MCP servers, and Copilot building entire applications for you.
41:45 – Governance, Security & What Comes Next
Managing agents, protecting MCP endpoints, and Microsoft’s vision for AI governance.
47:00 – Closing Thoughts & Predictions
Where do we go from here?
🎧 Listen now and join the conversation—because the future is arriving faster than you think.
In this episode of Engineer in the Loop, Alec and Brian sit down with Dwayne Natwick—renowned Microsoft Certified Trainer, security expert, and mentor to countless professionals navigating the certification landscape. Dwayne demystifies the path to becoming an MCT, from the instructional skills training and role-based certifications you’ll need, to the hidden benefits (and the upcoming return of the annual fee).
The conversation goes deeper than the requirements: Dwayne shares what it’s really like to build and deliver your own train-the-trainer curriculum, why live instruction trumps recorded video courses, and how teaching can both exhaust and inspire. Along the way, you’ll hear war stories about canceled classes, the challenge of staying relevant, and how AI might (or might not) change how we learn.
If you’ve ever wondered whether becoming a certified trainer is worth it—or you just want to hear how top instructors keep up with nonstop new technologies—this is the episode for you.
🔗 Resources Mentioned:
Learn more about becoming an MCT: Microsoft Learn - Become a Microsoft Certified Trainer
Connect with Dwayne on LinkedIn: Dwayne Natwick on LinkedIn
Nebraska.Code() 2025 Conference: Nebraska.Code() Website
Heads-up, hallway-track fans! In this episode of Engineer in the Loop, Alec and Brian sit down with Nebraska.Code() co-founder Ken Versaw and “community & culture steward” Arthur Doler for an unfiltered look at:
The 10-year rise of Nebraska.Code() and why the Cornhusker Marriott becomes the Midwest’s dev playground every July 23-25, 2025.
whova.com
Ken’s origin story — from writing customer-service scripts to launching a conference so locals didn’t need a $2 k Orlando flight to learn.
Arthur’s accidental pivot from data-science lightning talks to psychology-powered tech talks (and why Git visualisations changed lives).
Speaker horror stories: empty rooms, “front-row-guy” derailments, and the perils of eight-hour workshops on tiny laptop screens.
The real ROI for companies: momentum, problem-solving serendipity, team bonding and that one idea that pays for the ticket tenfold.
Bonus: impromptu Billy-Joel sing-alongs in the hotel lobby, plus why BarCamp Omaha’s “un-conference” is the easiest on-ramp to speaking.
Whether you’re conference-curious or a seasoned speaker, this conversation shows how live events fuel careers, communities and—yes—occasional chaos.
Links You (Promised to) Drop in the Show Notes
What Why
whova.com
Nebraska.Code() Speaker CFP / schedule http://nebraskacode.amegala.com
BarCamp Omaha (un-conference) – get your first speaking rep https://barcampomaha.org
Ken Versaw & Arthur Doler on BlueSky (Ken) @nebraskacode.bsky.social • (Arthur) @arthurdoler.bsky.social
This week Alec Harrison and Brian Gorman skip the rose-tinted dev chat and head straight for some therapeutic tech-venting. Fresh off an under-whelming WWDC, Alec wonders why Apple is flexing 3-D lock-screen clocks instead of, you know, actual Apple Intelligence—while a $3 k Vision Pro still can’t replace his decade-old Mac. Brian fires back with a blistering take on Google Gemini (“the passion of a thousand burning suns”) and explains how C#’s new runapp.cs experiment feels a lot like scrapping the foundation while the house is still standing. 🤦♂️
Along the way they swap war stories on:
The Wall Street Journal grilling Craig Federighi & Greg Joswiak about Siri’s perpetual “coming soon” status 📱
EF Core “CLI Hell, Level 6” and how ChatGPT bailed Brian out of phantom configs
Why top-level statements, disappearing .csproj files, and NuGet inline directives might be great for demos—but brutal for real-world onboarding
Alec’s discovery of Azure role-based data actions (spoiler: they’re not roles) and when over-architecting becomes a five-figure bonfire
Building the new Engineer in the Loop site with Astro, zero-JS by default, and an assist from AI
Need a cathartic laugh—or just want to feel seen about the messy state of modern tooling? Hit play and commiserate with two devs who love tech enough to roast it 🔥.
Links promised in-episode
Wall Street Journal interview with Craig Federighi & Greg Joswiak (Apple AI promises vs. reality)
“Announcing .NET runapp.cs” – .NET Blog
Astro Framework – astro.build
00:00 Underwhelmed by Apple WWDC
03:22 AI and Apple's Intelligence
05:43 Frustrations with Voice Assistants
08:25 The Evolution of Windows and Apple
10:49 The Dumbing Down of C#
13:17 C# vs Python: A Language Debate
15:40 The Future of C# Development
18:10 Managing Dependencies in C#
20:32 The Real-World Application of C#
23:00 Onboarding New Developers to C#
26:20 The Structure of Programming: A Necessary Evil
27:33 Adapting to Change: The Frustration of New Tech
28:56 Writing and Learning: The Joy of Creation
31:06 AI in Coding: A Game Changer
33:32 The Frustrations of CLI and Migration Issues
35:59 Enums vs Strings: A Design Debate
38:06 Delivering Value vs Over-Engineering
39:39 Leveraging AI for Web Development
42:16 Upcoming Projects and Conferences
45:19 Understanding Azure Data Attributes
In this wide-ranging Engineering the Loop chat, Alec Harrison and Brian Gorman welcome Peter Vasillion—CEO & AI Partner at Facet Interactive—to dissect how “models in the loop” are changing the way businesses ship software and automate everyday work.
Peter traces his journey from rebuilding Pentium-2 towers in his parents’ Southern California warehouse to guiding Fortune-level AI roll-outs. The trio swap stories about:
⚡ Rapid prototyping with LLMs – how Claude 4 Sonnet spun up a functional Blazor app for a non-developer in minutes, and why starting with a strong domain brief still matters.
🧠 Treating your AI like a junior hire – prompt-engineering, RAG, and iterative feedback loops that “skill up” an agent the same way you’d mentor a new teammate.
🛡️ Agent governance & bias – building ruler-slap guardrails in n8n workflows, the danger of hidden corporate filters, and what happens when monetization meets model moderation.
🤖 Assistant futures – from AI scheduling podcast guests to autonomous purchase-making, and the sociotechnical ripples when your virtual assistant becomes a trusted coworker.
Whether you’re wrestling with shadow-IT Power Apps, dreaming of a personal Telegram bot, or just curious about where the next wave of AI commoditization leads, this conversation is packed with practical war stories and forward-looking caution flags.
Links promised in the show notes
Peter Vasillion on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/pvasilion/
Facet Interactive – strategy, data & AI consulting https://facetinteractive.com/
n8n.io – open-source, agent-friendly workflow automation
What happens when the driverless revolution leaves the road?In our latest Engineer in the Loop episode, I sat down with Renard Henry, Head of IT at Toyota Connected, to talk about the future of autonomous systems—not just in cars, but in planes, ships, combines, and beyond.🚜 Imagine your farm equipment working while you sleep. 🛩️ Or a fully autonomous aircraft carrier. 🛳️ Or cargo ships crossing oceans with no one on board.It’s not science fiction.🎧 Listen in as we talk about AI at Toyota, evolving tech leadership, and what it means to build for a world that doesn’t just drive itself—but flies and sails too.👉 https://open.spotify.com/episode/2g9SNiQ61O1k7CmkHpKA3Y?si=BfHR5egSQUyVGUngDlp3cw
From jiu-jitsu to jumpstarting innovation at Toyota Connected, Renard Henry brings the heat in this episode of Engineer in the Loop. We talk AI in vehicles, life-saving tech, and the growing need for AI governance. Renard shares how Toyota stays lean while experimenting fast, why autonomous cars still need human oversight, and what the future holds for AI in healthcare and transportation. Whether you’re a tech lead, car geek, or just curious about how AI shows up in the real world—you’ll want to buckle up for this one.
Checkout Renard's Podcast Black Belts & Boardrooms @BlackBeltsandBoardrooms
📌 Chapters:
00:00 – The Invisible AI Already in Your Car
01:37 – Meet Renard Henry: From Sports Medicine to Tech Leadership
04:32 – Leadership Lessons from Jiu-Jitsu and Industry Hopping
06:02 – Fast-Paced Innovation at Toyota Connected
07:47 – Why Toyota Still Gets Lean Right
09:21 – AI vs. Autonomy: How Toyota Approaches Both
13:51 – Autonomous Traffic, White Stoplights, and Sci-Fi Reality
17:04 – The Future of Vehicle Ownership & Passive Income Fleets
21:05 – From IT to Intelligent Agents: What’s Coming Next
22:11 – How AI Changed Renard’s Work and Worldview
25:29 – AI in Healthcare: Personal Loss and Hopeful Progress
27:16 – Ethics, Automation, and the Trolley Problem
28:24 – Why AI Governance Will Be the Next Big Tech Role
30:51 – Cost, Risk & Value: The Hidden Work of Enterprise AI
34:55 – Avoiding the Wild West of Shadow AI
36:29 – Innovation with Purpose: Vetting the Right Tools
40:07 – Final Thoughts + Where to Connect with Renard