I’m delighted to announce Series 4 of Dancing with Wisdom Podcast is here!
https://youtu.be/Lh761Tpmgog
This season is all about thriving in the second half of life and learning to live in the light of eternity.
To open the series, I sit down with my daughter Nisha for a warm, honest, and often light-hearted conversation reflecting on my recent milestone—turning 60.
Or put another way: rather than counting our days, how do we make our days count?
Our culture often paints aging as decline, but I believe it’s actually an invitation to grow deeper in wisdom, gratitude, and joy.
In our conversation, we touch on the four themes of wisdom from my book
—Being (who am I becoming?),
—Relating (how am I loving those around me?),
—Doing (what meaningful work is mine to do?), and
—Leaving (what legacy will I leave?).
We talk about why leadership is more about influence than titles, and why the hardest person to lead is yourself.
There’s also a moment when I recall being nicknamed “Puddleglum” by my children—a wake-up call to choose gratitude over cynicism.
We talk about how a sciatica scare taught me to care for my body as well as my mind, and how gratitude, practiced daily, shifts life from entitlement to gift.
Looking ahead, you’ll hear from inspiring leaders in later life who are reinventing themselves, deepening relationships, and showing us it’s never too late to grow. Whether you’re younger and want to learn from those who’ve gone ahead, or you’re in your own second half of life seeking encouragement, this series is for you.
Above all, this milestone has reminded me of the eternal perspective: if death isn’t the end, then what matters most is character, love, and faithfulness. In Christ, bad things can turn for good, good things can never be lost, and the best is yet to come.
The video can be accessed above and I also attach the audio podcast below
S3 E11
What does it mean to grow old gracefully?
Welcome to a serious, but light-hearted conversation between two ‘old men’ who at the time of recording were only 69 and 56 years young!
Western culture celebrates and idolises youth. At the same time there is a nagging fear of the process of dying and losing control at the end of life. We anaesthetise and distract that fear with amusement. Indeed the word ‘amusement’ itself means ‘without thinking’.
https://youtu.be/ylArfKOvpok
In this 31 minute conversation Professor John Wyatt and myself joyfully explore what it means:
– to not look to the future with anxiety or even terror.
– the dangers of nostalgia and living in the past.
– from an ancient proverb how light overcomes darkness.
– how to not live in regret
– the importance of not just physical pain at the end of life, but also relational and psychological pain.
– why the fact you are alive means there is more for you to learn and more to give.
– finding confidence in how the good cannot be lost, the evil will be redeemed and the best is yet to come.
S3 E10
Is it possible to enjoy lasting friendship – friendship so good that it lasts forever?
In a cynical, complex and challenging world, we might wonder at the idea. Cultural forces of individualism, loneliness and suspicion question the ideal. And personal stories of betrayal and disappointment plague our ability to try or trust again.
https://youtu.be/Bsd4VvitXIc
And yet a model of friendship exists that runs counter to our doubts. It’s a friendship that’s crafted out of the heart of the gospel – meaning that it brings ‘good news’ for friendship.
So in this final episode of our 3-part series we ask …
‘What is it about the good news of Jesus that makes real friendship possible?’
‘What does it look like?’
‘How do we put it into practice?’
The answers unveil the ultimate model for friendship in God HImself. And He makes it possible for us to live lives that celebrate lasting friendships.
Joining us again to help us explore this ‘good news’ is John Wyatt – doctor, author, speaker and research scientist – who brings key insights from his book on friendship.
In the course of the conversation, John paints a picture of gospel-crafted friendships in practical terms. He reveals how modern variants such as ‘mentoring’ and ‘discipling’ pale in comparison. And he helps us see how friendship with God and others can last for eternity.
This is friendship with wisdom.
Do join the conversation.
S3 E09
There is a dark side to friendship that destroys relationships and damages people.
In this 2nd episode of our 3-part series on friendship, we look at how we can apply wisdom to guard against friendship’s dark side.
Joining us again to help unpack this critical issue is John Wyatt – doctor, author, speaker and research scientist – who brings key insights from his book on friendship.
https://youtu.be/XOSb8ENMMLs
John gives context to the ways our ideas of friendship are shaped. He lays out several warning signs of unhealthy friendships. And he provides 3 boundaries to safeguard healthy friendships.
This helps us to:
As a result, we learn how to apply wisdom and strengthen our friendships as a force for good rather than evil.
Do join us for this important conversation.
S3 E08
Friendship allows us to be the best of ourselves. It confirms what we know to be true – that we were made for relationships. Yet many people lack friendship in their lives. They lack the skills to develop close friendships. And so they lack the meaning that friendships bring. Why is this so? What can we do about it? And where can we find the answers?
https://youtu.be/C1PogGJwGJk
To help us explore this vital topic, we are joined in conversation by John Wyatt – doctor, author, speaker and research scientist – who brings key insights from his book on friendship.
Through the discussion we learn that wisdom has a lot to say about building close friendships. It shows us how to measure the health of our relationships and find deeper connections. And it helps us make sense of what it means to be human through the bonds we form.
In this first episode of a 3-part series, we rediscover the potential of friendships. We gain a deeper understanding of why we often struggle with friendship within our cultural context. And we see that in spite of cynical views and complex issues surrounding friendship in general, applying wisdom to our own friendships can have transformative effects.
As you will discover, John’s experiences and studies in friendship will enrich your own – leading to the genuine relationships we all long to have.
Do join us in the conversation …
S3 07
The path to a fulfilling life isn’t always what it seems. Our culture tells us that:
You can be successful and relax
You’re important
You can do what you want
You can have control
The world’s your oyster
But how well do these messages measure up to reality? Are we dancing with wisdom or with danger when we adopt them for ourselves?
https://youtu.be/2lt9291dThg
In this podcast we look at 5 key truths that challenge the cultural messages we can so easily absorb – the types of messages that often lead to bad or unintended outcomes.
These truths may be ‘uncomfortable’ but they hold the seeds of wisdom for our lives. They state that:
Life is hard
You are not important
Your life is not about you
You are not in control
You are going to die
When we learn to face these truths, we are on the path towards greater joy, encouragement and fulfilment. Indeed, it turns out there’s power in embracing what’s uncomfortable.
Do join the conversation and discover how to live a more fruitful life with these seeds of wisdom.
S3 E6
This is the third and final podcast of a three part series interviewing Mark Greene, author of “Thank God It’s Monday: Flourishing in Your Workplace”. Do watch or listen to part one and part two if you haven’t seen them yet.
https://youtu.be/8WQK00Ee12Q
God is interested in all of our life including the work we are doing. Our work can be an opportunity to bless and serve others in the midst of our more mundane responsibilities.
In this conversation we get to know and understand Mark better as we ask him the following questions:
1. What is the greatest lesson you have learnt?
2. Your greatest successes and why?
3. How has failure shaped your life?
4. What do you see as your greatest strengths?
5. Who have been your mentors and role models?
6. What these days makes your heart beat faster?
7. What have you read that we should read?
8. What have you done that we should do?
9. What growing up was your picture of God?
10. If you had unlimited time and money with no responsibilities what would you do?
Watch or listen to this podcast now to hear the whole discussion.
S3 E05
We continue our conversation with Mark Greene, author of the book “Thank God It’s Monday: Flourishing in Your Workplace”. Mark is passionate about whole life integration so that our faith and work are not separate from each other, but a continuation of who I am.. This is the second of a three-part interview with him.
Do watch the first part here if you haven’t already seen it.
https://youtu.be/mNS1OvLVjmQ
Wisdom involves bringing all of life under the authority of God. How do we do that in a way that can also brings meaning, purpose and fun?
In our conversation we relate the four pillars of wisdom (being, relating, doing and leaving) to the following questions:
Is God really interested in all areas of our lives?
How can we look at our work beyond something just to pay the bills?
How can I grow in confidence that my work really matters and makes a difference?
In this conversation and the next Mark and I explore how the whole of our lives can be lived with an eternal perspective.
S3 E04
How can the work I do better reflect the person I am and aspire to be?
To help us answer that question we have the privilege of interviewing Mark Greene. Mark is currently Mission Champion at the London Institute of Contemporary Christianity. He is also author of the book “Thank God It’s Monday: Flourishing in Your Workplace”.
https://youtu.be/3fPgJlLfplI
Here is some more background on Mark from his bio that we unpack:
“Mark grew up Jewish and joyous in North-West London. In his last month at university God wooed him not his kingdom and he went on to work for ten years in advertising in London and in New York. Gripped by a desire to dig into God’s word, he took a career break to study at the London School of Theology. The career break turned into a career change and he ended up on the staff, teaching Communications and Engaging with Contemporary Culture, and serving as Vice Principal.
He joined the London Institute for Contemporary Christianity in 1999, eager to focus on the call to see all God’s people empowered to live their whole lives – Monday to Saturday as well as Sunday – in dynamic and fruitful relationship with Christ. His other books include Probably the Best Idea in the World, Fruitfulness on the Front Line, Adventure and the million-copy selling The Servant Queen and the King She Serves which explores the faith of Queen Elizabeth II.
Mark’s married to Katriina, a Finn, and they have three splendidly different adult children. He enjoys films and fiction (a lot) and does a passable imitation of Mr Bean and a terrible one of Sean Connery. His wife wishes it were the other way round. His children wish he wouldn’t do either.”
Do join us in this fascinating conversation on Mark’s life as we unpack what it means to live life as an integrated whole encompassing body, mind and spirit.
The quote from L P Jacks we mention is:
“A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labour and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation. He hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing. To himself, he always appears to be doing both.”
S3 E3
The way we look at the world and ourselves profoundly impacts the way we live our lives.
In a world of so much cynicism, complexity and confusion, wisdom can help us move forward with less emotional baggage and more hope, awe and wonder with the daily decisions we have to make.
How can we unpack what we mean by wonder?
In this podcast conversation we explore the following quotation from Proverbs 30:18-19. This carefully crafted saying has been described as a testimony to wonder and an exercise in wondering:
“Three things are too wonderful for me;
four things I do not understand:
the way of an eagle in the sky,
the way of a snake on a rock,
the way of a ship on the high seas,
and the way of a man with a woman.”
https://youtu.be/1fqFa-VJscw
Can you grasp something of this wonder by the four examples poetically described in nature around us?
Here is how one Bible commentator, William Brown describes it:
“How are they possible, these baffling means of movement? What do they share in common: soaring eagles, slithering snakes, floating ships and love-making couples? Each example by itself arrests the attention but together they conjure a world of wonder. The proverb’s appeal derives from its power to elicit bewildered curiosity. To presume that a tidy solution lies behind these four disparate images would run counter to the sage’s own confession of befuddled awe. These ‘four things,’ the sage testifies will always retain an element of mystery regardless of how much is known about them, no matter how well each ‘way’ can be explained. Such is the sage’s testimony: there is nothing quite like ships, snakes and sex (not to mentions soaring raptors) to provoke a sense of wonder.”
On one level so ordinary, but if we pause to consider each they are profoundly mysterious and deeply curious, stirring inner longings in a way that can be hard to express.
Exploring wisdom is also like observing different facets of a diamond.
In our conversation we also unpack the three Biblical books of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Job that each give a different perspective on wisdom.
The bright young teacher of Proverbs wants to show us that there is wise order to the way the world runs.
The middle aged cynic of Ecclesiastes tries to explore wisdom ‘under the sun’ without an eternal perspective and becomes increasingly confused by what seem to be the simple answers of Proverbs.
Job, the seasoned old man who has gone through the good, bad and ugly of life reminds us how wisdom is often hidden.
To be wise we need to grasp all three perspectives from this endlessly fascinating diamond.
Do join us in our conversation to learn how wonder can help you overcome a cynical world.
In this second conversation of series 3 of the Dancing With Wisdom Podcast we discuss:
– how wisdom is much more than finding solutions to the complex problems of our lives.
– wisdom as bewildered curiosity and a path out of the cynicism and confusion of so much of modern life.
– the place of God as the ultimate Infinite Intelligence behind the universe.
– the surprising introduction of wisdom in the ancient book of Genesis that talks about the first man and woman.
– Holocaust survivor and Jewish psychiatrist Victor Frankl’s three insights into what makes for good psychological health. …. and much more!
You can listen to or watch the conversation below:
https://youtu.be/wjzb_FyE0y0
S3 E01
We have an exciting and fascinating series of conversations in store for you in this new series of the Dancing With Wisdom Podcast!
In this first episode of series 3 we discuss:
– How wisdom is much more than dealing with the complex problems of life
– The promise of wisdom being the key to the whole universe
– Unpack the proverb “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.”
– Fear as awe, reverence and wonder. – Wonder as bewildered curiosity.
These are more than mere words. I believe they hold the key to combatting the deep cynicism and mistrust of our age.
You can listen to or watch this 28 minute conversation below:
https://youtu.be/NRGPFildnxI
Do let me know what in our conversation particularly resonated with you.
When we seek to dance with wisdom, how does discipline affect our daily lives?
That was a question to us from a subscriber, Emily inspired by the following proverb:
“Do not forsake wisdom and she will protect you; love her and she will protect you.” (4:6)
To help us answer Emily’s question, Elliott and I discuss:
“Dancing with wisdom is about turning the world upside down from what it is now. Our secular world is promiscuous about sex, but private about faith. What would happen if faith promiscuously entered every area of life?”
“Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.” (3:5)
Or in the words of Tim Keller:
“To become wise is to become a disciplined person, given not to impulsiveness but to self-examination, to circumspection, and to clear thinking. It is to become a resilient person who through hard knocks has become poised and resourceful. As an athlete becomes physically competent only after rigorous training, so wisdom is hard won.”
Watch this conversation to find out more!
https://youtu.be/_k9c34GQqxc
It is surprisingly difficult for us to handle silence. Blaise Pascal (1623-1662) the brilliant French mathematician and philosopher famously wrote, “all the unhappiness of men arises from one single fact, they cannot stay quietly in their own room.”
Silence, solitude, and a deep relationship with God though His word are often in competition with an inner restlessness, worry and anxiety.
How do we tap into the wisdom of silence? In this podcast, Sunil and Elliot discuss the power of solitude, and what we can find when we can comfortably sit in silence.
Silence and solitude are vital for true, lasting spiritual growth. If solitude is the practice of being absent to people and things to attend to God, silence is the practice of quieting every inner and outer voice to attend to Him. The problem is that being present is difficult for us, in a world full of so many distractions – so much more than the time of Pascal!
So how do we maintain this state of being present and living with clarity? In this podcast, Sunil discusses his own struggle with depression and sitting in silence. He also gives us two short stories about patients who were transformed by the awareness of God coming into their lives in their silence and solitude.
Questions to ask yourself:
Have I learned about “the peace that passes all understanding”?
Do I understand what the psalmist actually means when he says, “Be still and know that I am God”? (Psalm 46:10)
https://youtu.be/yxLAYwjfLgY
When many people think of the word legacy they often think in terms of money or property that is left for future generations. That has its place, but what about the legacy in terms of the footprint we leave in the lives of others when we are gone? That is the influence and impact we had on others through the way we lived and the choices we made.
In this conversation we discuss the question of the legacy we leave and explore the following questions:
So much of what we hope and long for is summarised in the following quote by Chris Wright:
“The new creation will start with the unimaginable reservoir of all that human civilisation has accomplished in the old creation— but purged, cleansed, disinfected, sanctified and blessed. . . Think of the prospect! All human language, literature, art, music, science, business, sport, technological achievement— actual and potential— all available to us. All of it with the poison of evil and sin sucked out of it forever. . . Whatever it may be like, we can rest assured that, for those who are in Christ, anything that has enriched and blessed us in this life will not be lost, but infinitely enhanced in the resurrection and anything that we have not been able to enjoy in this life (because of disability, disease or premature death— or simply through the natural limitations of time and space) will be amply restored or compensated for in resurrection life.”
Do join us in this conversation as we seek to live with confidence, joy, and the responsibility of knowing our life has consequences.
Let’s make a difference in a world where there’s so much darkness and sadness.
You can watch or listen to the 27 minute conversation below:
https://youtu.be/aUDjjbGL0Sc
“If I am going to do something meaningful with my life, what kind of work should I do?”
In a world with an abundance of choices and options, that I think is a subconscious question at the back of our minds. It flows out of understanding who I am called to be and how I am called to relate to others (for more on that see The Question of Identity and Who Matters to Me? ).
When we wake up in the morning there are jobs to do and errands to run. We have responsibilities, but what am I called to do that only I can do? This lack of clarity is especially true in the day-to-day routine of life with the myriad of choices at our disposal.
Dawson Trotman expresses this in the following challenge, “Never do anything that someone else can and will do, when there is so much of importance to be done which others cannot or will not do.”
There are plenty of good and even noble things that we could do. How do we decide which ones to make our responsibility, guided by the wisdom that ‘the good is the enemy of the best’? The key is finding and walking in whatever is our God given calling. It is important to grasp that this is not a simple one-off process. It will involve experimentation and failure to such an extent that failure is another part of the process.
Parker Palmer addresses this with his question, “Is the life I am living the same as the life that wants to live in me?”
We tell ourselves this is a path we want to take, but how many of our choices and decisions come from our ego or a desire to impress others? There is also a calling within us that we also need to recognise and respond to.
The New Testament asserts that God has prepared good work for us to do that is unique to us. The apostle Paul in his letter to the Ephesians (2:10) as he celebrates the goodness of God to us through Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf proclaims, “For we are God’s handiwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
The word for handiwork is the same word from which we get the word poem. It is a work of art with God being the master craftsman.
Do join my co-host Elliott Frisby and I as we unpack this further in the 25 minute conversation below. We explore:
You can watch the 25 minute video or listen to the conversation below:
https://youtu.be/m3sQxG2rprQ
Life only makes sense in the context of relationships. That is the conclusion I have come to after many years of questioning and searching.
When relationships are going well there can be no greater sense of joy and fulfilment. On the other hand, when relationships are going badly there can be no more painful frustration or headache. That’s certainly been my experience.
In case you’re wondering the picture is of me around early 1968 with the friends from the street where we lived at the time in Allahabad, India. I am the one on the lower step at the front. We have no idea of what lies in store for each of us in the future!
On this podcast as we learn to dance with wisdom we explore the question of relating:
“How do I relate to others – my family, my friends, my work colleagues, those who come into my social orbit and the wider global village? Where do I find the healthy balance between sober seriousness and the fun in life?” (p.160)
Do join my co-host Elliott Frisby and myself as we unpack this further and discuss:
In case you’re wondering the picture is of me around early 1968 with the friends from the street where we lived at the time in Allahabad, India. In case you’re wondering the boy in the picture sitting at the front is me around early 1968. We have no idea of what lies in store for each of us in the future!
The link to the podcast is below.
You can also watch the conversation on video here
What questions, thoughts and ideas does this conversation bring up for you? Feel free to share your thoughts and comments!
“How does wisdom equip and empower us to live life such that we rise above the meaninglessness and mediocrity around us and the different challenges we face?”
That is the opening question of chapter 8 of the Dancing With Wisdom book.
To answer that question we begin by raising the question of identity or being – who am I called to be? It is the most fundamental question of my personal existence. We are, after all, human beings and not human doings!
Yet how often so much of our identity seems to come from what we do? Its the basic question often to a stranger we might meet at an event, asking them “What do you do?”
The problem is by basing my identity on my performance I can quickly fall between the extremes of arrogance at how well I am doing or despair when I don’t measure up to my own or other people’s standards. This is something we don’t necessarily give much conscious thought to but in deep and even mysterious ways it can drive our behaviours, actions and motivations.
In the 16th century the theologian John Calvin wrote, “True wisdom consists principally of two parts: the knowledge of God, and the knowledge of ourselves.”
On this 29 minute podcast do join my co-host Elliott Frisby and I as we discuss:
The link to the podcast is below.
You can also watch the conversation on video here.
Exploring the subject of wisdom is like looking at different facets of a diamond and even more so when we add an infinite reference point.
As my co-host Elliott Frisby and I continue our conversation on what it means to define wisdom with respect to the Divine, we face the insight that our secular world conditions us to believe this life is all there is and that is all that matters.
However, the fact is all religious traditions for thousands of years are agreed there is more to life than what we experience in this world. Indeed modern secular belief is out of keeping with much of human thinking since the dawn of time.
It is not possible to make sense of this finite world without an infinite reference point.
Do join us in this conversation as we explore:
The link to the podcast is below.
You can also watch the conversation on video here.
In our quest for wisdom it is vital to grasp that this is much more than simply making better decisions or getting what we think is best for us. Understanding wisdom in all its richness gets to the heart of what it means to be human.
It is as intense as thinking about the wonder of a baby’s birth. While the physiological and genetic details of birth are well understood and documented, a scientific approach does not account for the wonder of bringing a new life into the world. I remember as a medical student witnessing a birth. On one level, this was another of the 130 million born every year into the world. But for me, as a raw eighteen-year-old, it was a profoundly reverent experience.
As the writer Eugene Peterson puts it:
“In the presence of birth we are at the source of life . . . Here is a mystery, but a mystery of light, not darkness, full of goodness, brimming with blessing. Every birth powerfully recalls us to this source: we have our origins in someone other than ourselves, and greater than ourselves.”
There is something of this awe and wonder when we approach the subject of wisdom. It is wisdom that enables us to realise and appreciate we are far more than our own existence and the narrow world we live in with our preoccupations, doubts, fears, insecurities and often petty concerns.
Through wisdom we are invited into an encounter. This is an encounter with the God of the universe – The Ultimate Infinite Intelligence. Not a god of our convenience or that measures up to the best parts of who we aspire to be, but as the One who is more in control than we are and sees way beyond what we can see.
In this podcast discussion with my cohost Elliott Frisby we explore:
The link to the podcast is below.
You can also watch the conversation on video here.
