David Hutchens: Story Dash
David Hutchens works with leaders around the world to find, craft, and tell their most urgent stories for the purpose of creating shared meaning, preserving culture, disseminating learning, and speeding change in organizations. He has taught the Storytelling Leader program at some of the most influential organizations, including NASA, Paypal, Loreal Paris, Cisco, Walmart, Google, and FedEx. He’s written many books, including the Circle of the 9 Muses, Story Dash, and The Leadership Story Deck.

When organizational change is happening, leaders need to be intentional about lining up with culture, especially if it’s the time to shift that culture just a bit. We often do the logistics well, but we miss the power of both the human and emotional connections. In this episode, David and I discuss how story can help us make a meaningful shift.
Key Points

The organizations that are being intentional about culture are also being intentional about story.
Getting beyond the logistics of changes and leaning first into humanity and emotion help people frame cultural shifts.
Leaders go first. Embodied stories from leaders are surprising, counter-cultural, and repeatable.
Asking for stories is rarely sufficient. Instead, invite stories through intentional prompts like, “Tell me about a time you felt more engaged, alive, and happiest in your work here.”
Received stories are the ones told by employees. Adding an emotion word to an invitation such as, “What’s a time you were proud?” often surfaces more genuine stories.

David is now a Coaching for Leaders expert partner. Connect with him to discover how he might support your organization in making a meaningful cultural shift via our partners page or email him directly at david@davidhutchens.com.
Resources Mentioned

Circle of the 9 Muses: A Storytelling Field Guide for Innovators and Meaning Makers by David Hutchens (Amazon, Bookshop)*
Story Dash: Find, Develop, and Activate Your Most Valuable Business Stories…In Just a Few Hours by David Hutchens (Amazon)*
Leadership Story Deck by David Hutchens (Amazon)*

Related Episodes

Leadership Means You Go First, with Keith Ferrazzi (episode 488)
How to Start Finding Useful Stories, with David Hutchens (episode 593)
How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

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Monica Chartier: Coaching for Leaders Fellow
Monica Chartier is a group product manager in the technology industry. Her work has centered on supporting a global product experience, getting a million visitors a day. In addition to her e-commerce and technical experience, she indexes heavily on coach-like leadership with her team and also inside our community as one of our Coaching for Leaders Fellows.

In this conversation, Monica and I explore a need inside the Coaching for Leaders membership community and how we used the design thinking process to approach it. We outline the five key steps we followed and how you might do the same to address a problem inside your own organization.
Key Points
Five steps to solve a problem using design thinking:

Empathy: Start with Intentional Listening and Observation.
Define: Clarify the Real Problem to Solve.
Ideate: Co-Create Ideas and Form Testable Hypotheses.
Prototype: Start Small, Learn Fast.
Test, Learn, and Adapt: Make Iteration a Leadership Habit.

Access Monica’s detailed guide (PDF download)
Resources Mentioned

Monica Chartier on LinkedIn

Related Episodes

The Way to Make Struggles More Productive, with Sarah Stein Greenberg (episode 569)
How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)
How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

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Vanessa Druskat: The Emotionally Intelligent Team
Vanessa Druskat is an associate professor at the Peter T. Paul College of Business and Economics at the University of New Hampshire. She advises leaders and teams at over a dozen Fortune 500 and Fortune Global 500 companies and wrote the best-selling Harvard Business Review article (with S. Wolff) on emotionally intelligent teams that has been chosen many times for inclusion in HBR’s most valued articles. She is the author of The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

It’s easy to assume that a good start for a great team is getting the smartest people together. That does help, but it’s not the critical factor in whether a team performs. In this conversation, Vanessa and I discuss why the word belonging makes such a difference.
Key Points

Raw talent of the individual and their own interpersonal skills don’t predict team performance.
Belonging is critical for team performance. Leaders often miss this because they already feel like they belong.
Team members understanding each other is the first and most critical norm.
Beginning meetings with check-ins or gallery walks helps people understand each other, even if it’s not discussed extensively.
Inviting people to bring everyday objects to illustrate a more complex point helps make understanding accessible.
The leader sets the tone, but it’s the interaction between team members that makes the difference.

Resources Mentioned

The Emotionally Intelligent Team: Building Collaborative Groups that Outperform the Rest (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Vanessa Druskat

Interview Notes
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Related Episodes

How to Engage Remote Teams, with Tsedal Neeley (episode 537)
Team Collaboration Supports Growth Mindset, with Mary Murphy (episode 695)
How to Help People Connect at Work, with Wes Adams (episode 735)

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Scott Keller: A CEO For All Seasons
Scott Keller is a senior partner at McKinsey, where he coleads the firm’s global CEO Excellence work within the Strategy & Corporate Finance Practice and serves as a global leader in the Organization Practice. He’s a New York Times bestselling author and trusted advisor to boards, CEOs, and senior leadership teams, with whom he guides multiyear, enterprise-wide transformations that shape the future of institutions. His colleagues and him are the authors of the new book, A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

One of the most critical phases of taking on the top job is what you do at the start. Whether it’s stepping into the role as president, general manager, executive director, owner, or CEO, starting well can make all the difference. In this conversation, Scott and I explore how to begin in the best way possible.
Key Points

One-third to one-half of new CEOs are considered to be failing within eighteen months of taking the role. Many wish they’d handled the transition differently.
New CEOs enter a reality distortion field of many bosses (the board), no peers, and ultimate accountability for everything. The best CEOs guard against this by not making it about them.
Ask questions that aren’t about you, but the organization. Instead of, “How will I know if I’m successful?” ask, “How will we know if we’re winning?”
Beginning with a listening tour is essential. People will tell you things when you’re new that they’ll never say two or three years later.
Create a fact-based, one version of the truth. Once you know it, keep to a single narrative for everyone.
Err towards complete candor in the toughest realities. Prepare intensely for moments of truth, when they need to happen.
Set clear boundaries and stay extremely disciplined. Your narrative and first moves should guide how you frame these.

Resources Mentioned

A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering the Cycles of Leadership (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Carolyn Dewar, Scott Keller, Vikram Malhotra, and Kurt Strovink

Interview Notes
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Related Episodes

How Top Leaders Influence Great Teamwork, with Scott Keller (episode 585)
How to Genuinely Show Up for Others, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 590)
How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)

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Neil Ghosh: Do More Good
Neil Ghosh is a seasoned executive whose expertise spans the nonprofit, government, philanthropic, and private sectors. With 30+ years of experience, he has successfully launched and scaled both nonprofit and for-profit ventures, building teams, business models, partnerships, and strategies to drive impact and support vulnerable populations in more than 50 countries. His book is Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

There are many differences in the world today, and those differences influence leaders just like everybody else. That’s why Neil Ghosh has this invitation for us: “Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.” In this conversation, Neil and I explore how we can lean in on great leadership through our common humanity.
Key Points

In anyone we know, we can always find one positive attribute that we can learn from.
Never let age or ideology come between learning and growth.
The Dalai Lama reminds us to offer compassion and kindness, regardless of whether the recipient is in need.
Give back without expecting fanfare. Help people get what they want through peer mentoring.
Use your platform to promote unity and to be an advocate for others.
Befriend people who have different views. Join or start a book club that intentionally selects books from diverse viewpoints.

Resources Mentioned

Do More Good: Inspiring Lessons from Extraordinary People (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Neil Ghosh

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)
Turning Down the Temperature on Outrage, with Karthik Ramanna (episode 711)
How to Bring Out the Best in People, with Donna Hicks (episode 724)

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Margaret Andrews: Manage Yourself to Lead Others
Margaret Andrews is a seasoned executive, academic leader, speaker, and instructor. Her course MYLO (Manage Yourself to Lead Others) has become the most popular professional development program at Harvard. She is the author of Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Virtually every book, course, and program on leadership begins with self-understanding. That’s no accident; it’s because managing ourselves helps us lead others more effectively. In this episode, Margaret and I explore the six key questions that will help you manage yourself better.
Key Points

When people are asked to describe the attributes of their best bosses, 85% of the responses highlight interpersonal skills.
Our differences are our features, not our flaws. Knowing yourself well helps you lead others better.

Six Questions for Self-Understanding:

Who, and whose thinking, has shaped you as an individual?
What situations and events have helped shape your perspective?
What does success look like for you?
What are your core values, and how have these values changed throughout your life?
To what extent are you aware of—and allow yourself to feel—your emotions?
What feedback have you received over the years about how your actions and behaviors impact others?

Resources Mentioned

Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding by Margaret Andrews (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

Enhance Your Self-Awareness, with Daniel Goleman (episode 353)
The Way to Be More Self-Aware, with Tasha Eurich (episode 442)
Discover Who You Are, with Hortense le Gentil (episode 459)

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Mark Crowley: The Power of Employee Well-Being
Mark Crowley is a pioneer in workplace leadership, a speaker, and the bestselling author of Lead from the Heart. He is the host of the Lead from the Heart podcast. His new book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop).

When I talk with leaders, many of them tell me that it’s really hard to decide on how much recognition to give people vs. constructive or critical feedback. In this conversation, Mark and I highlight the ideal ratio to calibrate our communications so that we support people’s well-being while also helping them grow.
Key Points

Despite the focus on employee engagement, actual engagement scores are the same or worse than a decade ago.
Post-COVID, there’s a massive move towards employee well-being. This is good for both the organization and the employee.
An ideal positivity ratio is 4:1 in many relationships. That’s four positive interactions for every constructive or critical interaction.
We react more strongly to negative influence than positions once, thus the need for a ratio favoring the positive.
Positive interactions include optimism, enthusiasm, solutions orientation, encouragement, kindness, thoughtfulness, approachability, interest, and appreciation.
Leaders still must make unpopular decisions, set expectations, and give critical feedback. Positive interactions are in addition to these, not instead of.

Resources Mentioned

The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams (Amazon, Bookshop)* by Mark Crowley

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
Gallup Findings on the Changing Nature of Work, with Jim Harter (episode 409)
The Way to Notice People Better, with Zach Mercurio (episode 733)

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Dave speaks with Tracey Gardner, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on the critical nature of making space in order to adapt to change.

Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.

Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.

In this episode, Dave shares five ways to help leaders thrive through inflection points, including:

Redirect vs. respond
Set team norms
Ask a second question
Picture tomorrow’s commitment today
Hold a funeral

Colin Fisher: The Collective Edge
Since his days as a professional jazz trumpet player, Colin Fisher has been fascinated by group dynamics. Today, he is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London's School of Management, researching the hidden processes of helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He is the author of The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop).

Most of us assume that the best thing we can do for our teams is to be a great coach as they’re working together. That absolutely helps, but the research says that only 10% of group effectiveness is what we do once the team is underway. In this conversation, Colin and I explore how to get a lot better at the other 90%.
Key Points

The house always wins. If the structure isn’t right for the team to succeed, little else matters in the long run.
Leaders tend to put a majority of their attention on coaching teams in progress instead of the more significant work at the start of structuring and launching teams.
Work on fixing structural problems before you focus on fixing the process.
60% of group effectiveness is determined by structure, 30% by the launch, and 10% by expert coaching.
Critical for structure is the team goal being clear, important, and challenging. Be sure to document it.
Negotiate roles, tasks, and jobs to support structure. Determine early how to articulate progress and highlight small wins.
Ask yourself if the group has the right people to achieve the objective. Deep diversity that supports the goal is essential.
Surface discussions about norms at the start, especially related to communication and storage of information.
At a team launch, articulate why everyone is there, discuss key norms, and schedule a midpoint to reflect and align.

Resources Mentioned

The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups (Amazon, Bookshop) by Colin Fisher

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
How to Generate Quick Wins, with Andy Kaufman (episode 496)
How to Increase Team Performance Through Clarity, with David Burkus (episode 657)

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Dave speaks with Elham Bidar, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on the importance of balancing both technology and people in leadership.

Apply to the Coaching for Leaders Academy by Friday, September 12th.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff: Tiny Experiments
Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an award-winning neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. She is the founder of Ness Labs and author of its widely read newsletter, a researcher at the ADHD Research Lab, and an advisor for the Applied Neuroscience Association. She is the author of Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World*.

We all get into a rut sometimes. Once we notice we’re in one, our tendency is to work really hard to get out of it. In this conversation, Anne-Laure and I explore how starting with something tiny is often the better bet.
Key Points

SMART goals assume we know exactly where we’re heading. Most of the time, that’s not clear.
A tiny experiment focuses on outputs instead of outcomes.
To build more comfort with uncertainty, find one small place to experiment.
Our brain uses growth loops to constantly adjust our trajectory. We don’t go in circles; we grow in circles.
Improving growth isn’t about knowledge or skill, it’s thinking about your thinking, questioning your responses, and knowing your mind.
A simple, 5-minute tool is Plus Minus Next. It surfaces what’s working, what’s not, and your next steps.

Resources Mentioned

Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World* by Anne-Laure Le Cunff

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
How to Create Space, with Juliet Funt (episode 540)

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Dave speaks with Anna Bellini, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how to stop a behavior in order to move forward.

Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy will open the first week of September. Visit the Academy page to request an early invitation.

Lorraine K. Lee: Unforgettable Presence
Lorraine K. Lee is passionate about helping ambitious professionals go from invisible to unforgettable in the modern workplace. She is recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice in workplace communication and presence and spent over a decade as a founding editor at top tech firms like LinkedIn and Prezi, where she worked on core products including the LinkedIn Daily News module and LinkedIn Newsletters. She is the author of Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career.

Small talk. We all love to hate it – and we also know that most of us will end up in small talk with someone who’s got a lot of influence. It may be an executive or an external stakeholder. Either way, handling it well can open up doors. In this conversation, Lorraine and I detail how to make small talk go better.
Key Points

Small talk is the starting point before a deeper relationship.
Most opportunities for executive small talk are predictable. Preparation will help you speak well.
Set the tone with positive energy. Rather than dominating the interaction or passively reacting to it, thread your conversations so each party shares equally.
At the office, be ready with a sentence or two about who you work with and what you’re working on. Relationships and outcomes are more memorable than titles.
At social events, share a hobby or interest and ask about theirs. Keep questions open-ended as you would with a friend.
Have a topic ready to go for quick interactions. Sharing a thought about a book or podcast that relates to your organization is a useful resource to have at the ready.
Review your go-to topics regularly so that you always have a relevant conversation topic.

Resources Mentioned

Unforgettable Presence: Get Seen, Gain Influence, and Catapult Your Career by Lorraine K. Lee

Interview Notes
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Related Episodes

Executive Presence with Your Elevator Speech, with Tom Henschel (episode 316)
How to Talk to People Who Intimidate You, with Shandy Welch (episode 706)
A Key Tactic for Way Better Conversations, with Alison Wood Brooks (episode 717)

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Dave speaks with Mel Rivera, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how she built visibility for her team.

Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy will open the first week of September. Visit the Academy page to request an early invitation.

Mort Sherman: Resonant Minds
Mort Sherman is the retired Senior Associate Executive Director of the American Association of School Administrators, known for his visionary leadership as a superintendent dedicated to elevating academic standards and promoting equitable education. Throughout his career, he championed initiatives that addressed achievement gaps and empowered communities to foster inclusive, impactful learning environments. He is the author, along with his daughter Sara Leila Sherman, of Resonant Minds: The Transformative Power of Music, One Note at a Time.

So many of us love music, and it’s often at the core of a lot of our personal lives, celebrations, and emotions. But we don’t often think about how we can leverage its power at work. In this conversation, Mort and I explore how music can help us set the tone for better leadership.
Key Points

One way to nurture our teams and ourselves is a continual call for leaders, and music is an avenue we don’t often consider.
Using music as mindful action, coupled with executive function skills, supports the habits of successful leadership.
Start meetings with music or mindfulness exercises for collective focus, productive discussions, and creative outcomes.
Create team playlists to build community. Combine playlists with meetings to help support trust and respect.
Use music to reinforce a message or theme, tied to the needs of the moment.

Resources Mentioned

Why Cooks Cook from The Bear

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

The Power of Leadership Through Hospitality, with Will Guidara (episode 688)
How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross (episode 719)
What Leaders Should Learn from Taylor Swift, with Kevin Evers (episode 739)

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Dave speaks with Erann Lincoln, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how she started small to build stronger relationships with her team.

Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy will open the first week of September. Visit the Academy page to request an early invitation.

Jenny Wood: Wild Courage
Over an 18 year career at Google, Jenny Wood grew from entry-level to executive, most recently leading a large operations team that helped drive billions of revenue per year. In 2021, she started a passion project within Google called Own Your Career, which grew to one of the largest career development programs in Google’s history. Her work has since been featured in Harvard Business Review, Entrepreneur, and Forbes and she’s now the author of Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It*.

Leadership is about serving others – and it’s also ensuring that we take care of ourselves along the way. Sometimes leaders over-index on helping their organizations and teams, to their own detriment. In this conversation, Jenny and I explore where being a little more selfish might actually be better for everyone.
Key Points

Selfish redefined means having the courage to stand up for what you want.
People want to join a winning team, even if they don’t say that out loud.
Guilt is natural, but always caving to it is self-defeating.
Don’t do work that’s not actually promotable. There’s no prize for an empty inbox.
A belief like “I owe it to them,” may signal an over-commitment to the organization. They will not love you back.
Appreciate truth when you get it, but don’t sign up for a burned-out boss.
It’s inefficient to always be in the lead. Draft in another leader’s wake.

Resources Mentioned

Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It* by Jenny Wood

Interview Notes
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Related Episodes

Align Your Calendar to What Matters, with Nir Eyal (episode 431)
The Ways Leadership Can Derail Us, with Bill George (episode 596)
The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph (episode 734)

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Roger Kneebone: Expert
Roger Kneebone directs the Imperial College Centre for Engagement and Simulation Science and the Royal College of Music–Imperial College Centre for Performance Science. He researches what experts from different fields can learn from one another, including a creative team of clinicians, computer scientists, musicians, magicians, potters, puppeteers, tailors, and fighter pilots. He is the author of Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery*.

Many leaders get into the roles they have because they are the experts in their work. But once you’re leading, the work is less about being the expert and more about teaching your expertise to others. In this conversation, Roger and I explore how to get better at doing this well.
Key Points

Experts don’t often recognize that they are experts.
A characteristic of many experts is a dissatisfaction with where they are and an awareness that they could do better.
Experts should notice what’s missing and what would be most helpful to the less experienced person.
Effective teachers zero in on one thing at a time, even if they notice many areas for improvement.
Passing along expertise is not just the skills themselves but the perspective of why each skill matters.
Land in the zone of proximal development. The skill should neither be too easy or too difficult.

Resources Mentioned

Expert: Understanding the Path to Mastery* by Roger Kneebone

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

Help People Learn Through Powerful Teaching, with Pooja Agarwal (episode 421)
The Art of Mentoring Well, with Robert Lefkowitz (episode 599)
How to Handle High-Pressure Situations, with Dan Dworkis (episode 701)

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Sabina Nawaz: You’re the Boss
Sabina Nawaz is an executive coach who advises C-level executives and teams at Fortune 500 corporations, government agencies, nonprofits, and academic institutions. During her 14-year tenure at Microsoft, she went from managing software development teams to leading the company’s executive development and succession planning efforts for over 11,000 managers and nearly a thousand executives, advising Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer directly. She’s the author of You're the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)*.

Every leader I know intends to be authentic. Unfortunately, we sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the critical work of calibrating our actions. In this conversation, Sabina and I discuss how to avoid that trap so we can show up more genuinely for others.
Key Points

“Yeah, but…” signals justification and holds us back from what we most need to learn.
Your success comes despite unhelpful traits, not because of them.
Pure authenticity is a complete fallacy. Authenticity is not singular.
We sometimes use authenticity as an excuse not to do the important work of calibrating our actions.
Don’t let the smokescreen of past “authenticity” get in the way of growth.
Authenticity is not static. Reading your old past social media posts will remind you of this.
When shifting, start with small experiments to nudge you in a new direction.

Language that may be warning signs of the authenticity trap:

“That’s just how I am.”
“I’m not the kind of person who…”
“I’m not being true to myself if…”
“That’s the way I’ve always done things, and it’s worked for me.”

Resources Mentioned

You're the Boss: Become the Manager You Want to Be (and Others Need)* by Sabina Nawaz

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
How to Start a Big Leadership Role, with Carol Kauffman (episode 617)
The Habits That Hold Leaders Back, with Marshall Goldsmith (episode 696)

Discover More
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