What do pyramid photos, Harry Potter, and a karaoke dare from Debbie Millman have in common? They’re all part of Jenn Visocky O’Grady and Justin Ahrens’ journey through AIGA leadership—and proof that the best design stories don’t always happen on stage. In this episode, they reflect on 20+ years of retreats, road trips, poster campaigns, and unexpected friendships. From building student chapters and Design for Good initiatives to scaling purpose-driven work through their careers, they show how showing up (and sometimes singing) can change everything.

Key Takeaways

• You had to earn it: Retreats weren’t perks—they were rewards for doing the work.
• Brave questions open doors: Jenn’s habit of speaking up led to a lifelong friendship.
• Design for Good made waves: Local efforts grew into national campaigns with real impact.
• Relationships were the pipeline: Conferences led to collaborations, career moves—and family vacations.
• Small chapters mattered: Big ideas came from all corners, not just the coasts.
• You don’t need to pyramid: Even the cautious (hi Jenn) found their place—and their people.

Key Moments in This Episode

1. 00:45 – Meeting at Austin: Jenn and Justin cross paths at a leadership retreat and bond over a big design question
2. 04:15 – Chapter to national: How local board service led to the AIGA national stage
3. 06:40 – Design family: Retreats became the annual reunion neither of them wanted to miss
4. 08:40 – Commitment check: Rachel skips a cousin’s wedding to attend the Denver retreat
5. 10:00 – Heroes, humanized: From Debbie Millman karaoke to airport pickups with Kit Hinrichs
6. 12:20 – One brave question: Jenn speaks up, Justin notices—and a friendship begins
7. 17:55 – Chaos and costumes: Pizza suits, pyramid photos, and how scale gave projects life
8. 23:45 – Real-world prep: AIGA board service trained them for academic and agency leadership
9. 30:45 – What’s “good” now?: Memes, AI, and the missing design role models
10. 44:50 – Path to Impact: How one national initiative started with 200 members in Cleveland

About Our Guests

Jenn Visocky O’Grady  Jenn is Associate Dean and full professor at Cleveland State University, co-founder of AIGA Cleveland’s student chapter, and co-author of The Information Design Handbook (and three other books) with her husband Ken. Her design work has appeared in How, Print, and Communication Arts. These days she leads a massive academic department and still finds time for pyramid photos, family vacations, and community impact. Also known as “Safety Jen.”

Justin Ahrens  Justin is Chief Creative Officer of Rule29, a Certified B Corp focused on using design to create positive impact. He’s a TEDx speaker, podcast host (Design Of, Creative Shit Show), and co-creator of initiatives like Wheels for Water, which helped bring clean water access to over 20,000 people. He believes in community, vulnerability, and big swings—and credits AIGA for the most meaningful friendships in his life.

Featuring

• Guest Jenn Visocky O’Grady, connect on LinkedIn
• Guest Justin Ahrens, connect on LinkedIn
• Host Erik Cargill, connect on LinkedIn
• Host Rachel Elnar, connect on LinkedIn

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• Theme music: Loose Ends by Silver Ships Plastic Oceans
• Produced by Chapter 2 Media
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