Steph and Maarten talk to Rae Isla about rocks, of course, middle class creators, a life before Web3 - and how that laid foundations of independence - and how she's circling back to more traditional music industry pathways, but now with a rock solid community behind her. 

Steph & Maarten talk to Natalie Crue about crypto, music, non-profit, the metaverse, Web3 tools, and life hacks. It's a crypto music history lesson and an invitation to dream big into the future all at once. 

Steph and Maarten discuss the crazy gas fees and whether it's time to look at layer-2 blockchains or other layer-1 blockchains. The conversation veers into why it's so good to be an independent artist.