This episode Dr. Susan Friedman, Behavior Works, provides some great learning and insights into a multitude of current topics surrounding the science of behavior change. Dr. Friedman starts with discussing the Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures; what it is, how we can view it to provide optimal welfare to animals, and also the importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment to behavior change. She also breaks down what it means and looks like in practice when we strive for most positive, least intrusive, effective intervention. Dr. Friedman then gives a summary on the free operant approach to enrichment. She finishes the discussion by diving into the concept of control by honoring the no and shaping the yes. Stay tuned in for Dr. Friedman’s very unique "Training Tale" about plant learning. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Dr. Friedman email sgf@behaviorworks.org
For more information and to register for the ABMA virtual courses visit this link: https://www.theabma.org/behavior-management-courses
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Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
5:10 Introduction to Dr. Susan Friedman and Behavior Works
19:25 Hierarchy of Behavior Change Procedures
27:00 Most Positive, Least Intrusive, Effective Intervention
36:20 The importance of antecedent arrangement and the environment on behavior
48:05 Free Operant approach to enrichment
1:07:00 Honor the No, Shape the Yes
This episode, through daily live recordings, features a recap of the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference (April 27 - May 2 2025) hosted by Moody Gardens in Galveston, Texas, United States. Each day of the conference, one of the presenters for the day discusses their presentation and other learning that impacted them.
Day 1: Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park
Day 2: Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs
Day 3: Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo
Day 4: Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa
If you are an ABMA member be sure to log in to Animalprofessional.com to watch most of the presentations and panels from the 2025 conference. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
Here is the link to the podcast survey. We really appreciate your feedback! https://lp.constantcontactpages.com/sv/Rspt0Bk/abcpodcast2025
Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
5:10 Discussion of Conference Day 1 with Marie Filipek, Zoo Tampa at Lowry Park.
12:15 Discussion of Conference Day 2 with Heidi Moomaw, Charles River Labs
35:10 Discussion of Conference Day 3 with Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo
53:15 Discussion of Conference Day 4 with Matthew Nguyen & Li Shan Tan, Resorts World Sentosa
This episode was a live panel recording at the 2025 ABMA annual conference in Galveston Texas hosted by Moody Gardens. The expert panel consisted of Tim Sullivan - Brookfield Zoo, Elly Neumann - Jerusalem Zoo, Nicki Boyd- San Diego Zoo, Anaka Nazareth - National Aquarium, and Chris Jenkins - Natural Encounters Inc. The panel’s theme was “The Importance of Behavior in Modern Animal Care” with questions submitted in real time from the conference attendees. The panel discussed a wide range of topics ranging from the growth of the role behavior plays in welfare to the evolution and next steps in enrichment, to advice on getting buy-in for change. In the absence of a “Training Tale” for this episode, each of the panelists utilize their years of experience to provide their “Animal Behavior Advice”. For questions or suggestions about the podcast or to get in contact with the panelists email abc@theabma.org. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
This episode Steve Martin, President and CEO of Natural Encounters, Inc., discusses training on a continuum by moving away from coercion and towards genuine choice. Steve starts the episode by giving a review of the concepts of choice and… control with some practical examples. The discussion then turns to breaking down behavioral degrees of freedom, genuine choice, and coercion with many more great practical examples. The episode ends with Steve outlining that real-world animal training requires us to train on the continuum but always striving towards providing genuine choice in order to enhance an animal’s welfare. Stay tuned in for Steve’s motivation and emotional "Training Tale" about a trainer from a show at the Singapore Zoo. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Steve email s.martin@naturalencounters.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
3:45 Introduction to Steve Martin
9:25 Review of Choice and… Control
18:55 Degrees of Behavioral Freedom
28:20 Free Choice
30:35 Genuine Choice
44:05 Coercion
56:15 Training on the Continuum
1:04:15 “Training Tales”
This episode Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt, Georgia Aquarium, discuss motivation in the context of animal behavior and training. In part 1 of this two episode discussion Mel and Alyse discuss what motivation is, what it looks like in practice, and give some o-fish-ally great examples from the many aquatic species that they work with in the Ocean Voyager habitat at the Georgia Aquarium. They both dive deeper into breaking down and discussing some of the numerous stimuli and events that can affect motivation. The discussion finishes with their advice on how to productively and effectively use motivation as a tool in our training toolbox and not as a label. Stay tuned in for Mel and Alyse’s “Training Tales” that focus on how the fish they have worked with have taught them and changed their perspective. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Mel and Alyse email mpaynter@georgiaaquarium.org or AStitt@georgiaaquarium.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
3:25 Introduction to Mel Paynter and Alyse Stitt
8:15 Overview of Ocean Voyager habitat at Georgia Aquarium
10:15 Definition of Motivation
13:45 Definition of Motivating Operations
Affects on Motivation:
17:10 Food and Enrichment
24:00 Breeding/Courtship
34:00 Social Structure/Situations
39:50 Environment
43:35 Weather/Seasonality
45:00 Learning History
47:50 Animal’s physical ability to do something
48:50 Previous access to resources
50:35 Differences in motivation among individuals
59:25 Advice for using motivation productively and effectively, not as a label
1:05:35 “Training Tales”
This episode Shane Gorbett, Philadelphia Zoo and host of the podcast, discusses and breaks down fading. Shane first discusses examples of what fading looks like in practice and how we can apply the artful application of the science of behavior change in order to know when and how to fade. Shane also discusses the challenges of fading too quickly, too slowly, or not at all. Stay tuned in for Shane’s "Training Tale" about Nile crocodile crate training and the importance of paying attention to the communication that we provide to animals. Visit www.theabma.org for more information and for questions or suggestions about the podcast or to contact Shane, email abc@theabma.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
5:35 Introduction to Shane Gorbett
14:10 Definition of Fading and Examples
25:10 Fading to change a behavior’s cue.
28:00 How do we know when to fade?
31:50 What happens if we fade too quickly?
37:35 What happens if we fade too slowly?
39:05 What happens if we never fade at all?
42:55 “Training Tale”
This episode Tricia Dees, the second vice president of the ABMA, continues on with the discussion from Episode 59 and goes deeper into primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers. Tricia gives some common examples of primary/unconditioned and secondary/conditioned reinforcers but also talks about how individual preference plays a role in determining what is actually a reinforcer for each individual. The discussion then turns to why and how we can condition a reinforcer and the importance of watching the animal’s behavior to ensure that a conditioned reinforcer maintains its effectiveness. Stay tuned in for Tricia’s “Training Tale” about how she used learning from a presentation at an ABMA conference about zebra training with an otter. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Tricia email sponsorship@theabma.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
4:05 Introduction to Tricia Dees
6:10 Definition of a Primary/Unconditioned Reinforcer
8:50 Definition of a Secondary/Conditioned Reinforcer
11:50 Are primary and secondary reinforcers the same for every individual in a species?
19:25 Why would we condition a reinforcer?
22:00 Example of how to condition a reinforcer and how to tell if it is an effective reinforcer
30:45 How to tell if a conditioned reinforcer has lost its effectiveness as a reinforcer
36:30 “Training Tales”
Welcome back for the first episode of 2025! This episode Shawna Spencer, Coral World Ocean Park, dives deeper into breaking down reinforcers and punishers. This episode is full of examples and practical applications. Shawna starts with a brief introduction to primary and secondary reinforcers before listing examples of common reinforcers and punishers. The episode finishes with a discussion about how reinforcers can change over time and how to tell if something is no longer a reinforcer for an animal. Stay tuned in for Shawna’s two doggone great “Training Tales”, one featuring dog training in German. You can also learn more information about the 2025 ABMA annual conference by listening or visiting www.abma.org For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Shawna email spencers702@gmail.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
3:20 Introduction to Shawna Spencer
13:10 Information about the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference in Galveston, Texas
19:50 Definitions of Reinforcers and Punishers
23:05 What can be a reinforcer or punisher
25:10 Definition of Primary Reinforcers
25:45 Definition and application of Secondary Reinforcers
34:10 Examples of common reinforcers
42:10 Examples of common punishers
52:35 If something is a reinforcer will it always be a reinforcer?
57:40 How to tell if something is no longer a reinforcer?
1:01:00 “Training Tales”
This episode Jose Bello, Disney’s Animals, Science and Environment, discusses superstitious behavior. Jose starts with breaking down what it means for a behavior to be superstitious and examples of what that looks like in a practical application. Next, Jose educates about the “potential danger” in labeling behaviors as superstitious and how taking the blame away from the animal and placing it on us as the trainers, can give us a better understanding of what is accidentally reinforcing or punishing a superstitious behavior. The episode ends with a discussion and a reminder that all behavior has function and how that mindset can help trainers and teams have a cohesive understanding of superstitious behaviors. Stay tuned in for Jose’s o-fish-ally great "Training Tale" about a guest’s reaction to water kenneling fish. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Jose email Jose.Bello@disney.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
7:00 Introduction to Jose Bello
10:05 Definition and practical application of superstitious behavior
14:55 What does it look like if something is accidentally reinforced?
16:15 How to identify a superstitious behavior?
19:10 What is the potential “danger” in labeling a behavior as superstitious?
21:25 If there is a “potential danger”, should we still call behaviors superstitious?
23:50 How can having extra communication about superstitious behaviors arising from accidental reinforcement help with any labels that may come with the term?
25:50 Advice for recognizing that a behavior has been accidentally reinforced and isn’t just “something the animal always does”
28:05 Recognizing what is actually the reinforcer(s) or punisher(s) for a superstitious behavior?
29:30 All behavior has function
33:45 “Training Tales”
In a special ABMA Behavior Month 2024 episode, Jonelle Mason, California National Primate Research Center - UC Davis, discusses training and behavior in a research setting. Jonelle educates about the similarities and differences between training, cooperative care, and enrichment programs in a zoo compared to a research setting. Additionally, Jonelle talks about some of the unique challenges that arise and the future of behavior management within a research setting. Stay tuned in for Jonelle's "Training Tale" about training her pet corn snake to help with a regurgitation issue. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Jonelle email jmason@ucdavis.edu Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
4:35 Intro to Jonelle Mason
7:35 Comparison of behavior and training in a research vs zoo setting
16:45 Comparison of husbandry and cooperative care training
20:25 Considerations for research related training
29:10 Creating positive human-animal relationships
30:50 Enrichment programs in a research setting
33:30 Lessons from a research setting
35:10 The future of behavior management in a research setting
39:00 “Training Tale”
This episode Sam Meinke, Palm Beach Zoo, and podcast host, Shane Gorbett, discusses what it means to be a modern zookeeper. The definition of what a zookeeper is and does has drastically changed and is constantly evolving as we continue to progress animal care forward. Some other modern zookeepers were kind enough to share what being a modern zookeeper means to them so Sam and Shane dissect those answers as we redefine what it means to be a zookeeper. The discussion wraps up with the importance of redefining what a modern zookeeper is and does both for the knowledge of the public but also for those currently in the field or hoping to start their careers. Stay tuned in for Sam's "Training Tales" which involves a ground hornbill and a "long cheetah turd". For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Sam you can message him on Facebook or Instagram. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
3:20 Introduction to Sam Meinke
4:40 Definition of a Zookeeper and redefining into a Modern Zookeeper
13:40 Using the past as a baseline to grow from and do better
20:20 A Modern Zookeeper…. Adapts to new information
22:50 Progressive, Use the artful application of scientific principles
23:45 Knows the individual animals
25:20 Creative, thinks outside the box for enriching the lives of animals
28:20 Responsible for providing each individual animal the best life possible
30:22 Creates a bond with the animals, knows each of their personalities
32:00 Eager to share their special connection with everyone
32:50 Strives to create positive connections in all interactions, changing the mindset from making to asking
36:46 Does research, looks to natural history of animals
38:15 Selfless, puts the animals’ needs above their own, open to feedback
39:20 Prioritizes behavioral management as a necessity
41:30 Focuses on animal wellbeing
43:10 Importance of redefining the modern zookeeper
45:40 Advice on changing the mindset of a team into striving to be modern zookeeprs
49:00 “Training Tales”
This episode Rick Hester, Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and BehaviorWorks, discusses a free operant approach to behavior management. Rick starts with explaining the practical application of free operant behavior and, in order to get the full scope, also discusses discrete trial training and the relationship between the two. Breaking down some of the science, Rick educates about Lindsley's (1996) Four Free Operant Freedoms and the considerations for providing and maintaining a free operant environment (depletion, satiation, and dosage of resources). Rick finishes the episode with giving advice on how to start curating free operant environments by celebrating each approximation. Stay tuned in for a "dam" great "Training Tale" about creating a free operant environment for beavers using the sound of running water. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to contact Rick email rph@behaviorworks.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
6:40 Definition and application of “Free Operant”
10:05 Definition and application of Discrete Trial Training (DTT)
14:10 Connecting the dots between environmental enrichment and free operant principles
16:55 The Freedom to Present Stimuli
17:20 The Freedom to Repeat Responses Many Times to Each Signal
17:50 The Freedom to Form Responses
18:20 The Freedom to Slow or Speed Responses
19:15 Considerations for providing and maintaining a free operant environment
20:40 Resource Depletion
23:20 Satiation of Resources
24:50 Dosage of Resources
28:00 Advice for Getting Team Buy-In; Using Approximations
35:35 The balance between free operant and discrete trial training
39:50 “Training Tales”
This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the human side of the animal care field. In this episode Scott Trauger, Natural Encounters, Inc., dives deeper into a discussion centered around his presentation at the 2024 ABMA Annual Conference titled "Expanding Our Feedback Loop: Evolving the Way that We Give Feedback to Our Peers". Scott discusses the different types of feedback and considerations to think about in order to effectively give specific and honest, but also kind, feedback. Scott also discusses the thought of also giving choice and... control to people while providing feedback. Stay tuned in for a "Training Tale" about how Scott used his tree climbing skills and relationship to rescue a pied crow. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Scott contact him on the ABMA Community or email michael.scott.trauger@gmail.com If you are an ABMA member you can watch Scott's presentation on animalprofessional.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
2:10 Introduction to Scott Trauger
6:05 “Expanding Our Feedback Loop: Evolving the Ways we Give Feedback to Our Peers”
7:55 Using the word “Feedback” vs “Criticism”
12:05 Different Types of Feedback
18:40 Importance of Individual Relationships
23:30 Being honest and specific but also kind
27:15 Reinforcing the behaviors/responses you want to see happen again
29:30 Recapping or following up after feedback
31:15 Starting with heart and the human, not evidence
35:10 Giving choice and… control to people
43:00 “Training Tales”
This episode we are joined by Tegan Noel, San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, to discuss some practical applications and examples of providing choice and... control. This episode is a continuation of Episode 50 where Ken Ramirez broke down the science of choice and... control. The episode starts with Tegan commenting how the focus of those two topics have changed and shaped behavior in recent years. Additionally, she educates about what it means to remove "forced" choice and providing control through the use of encouraging animals to say now. Tegan gives thoughtful examples of providing choice and... control and why it is not only important for animal care professionals to have an understanding but also the public. Stay tuned in for Tegan's interesting "Training Tale" about a pygmy falcon who decided to create an awkward ending to a show. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Tegan you can email tnoel@sdzwa.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
2:45 Introduction to Teagan Noel
5:40 How has the focus on choice and control evolved and changed the way we care for animals?
11:30 Giving animals control and encouraging animals to “say no” while still receiving active participation
16:00 Practical examples of providing choice and control: Squirrel Monkeys
28:35 Practical example: Control over putting on a harness (coati, wombat)
31:10 Giving more control and removing “forced” choice
40:35 Importance of providing choice and control from the view of the pubic
49:40 Advice for starting the process of providing more control
54:35 “Training Tales”
This episode we are joined once again by Chris Jenkins of Natural Encounters, Inc. in order to dive deeper into Antecedents, specially looking at Distant Antecedents and navigating the role they play in behavior. This episode is a continuation of Episode 6 where Chris broke down the fundamentals of Antecedents. The episode starts with defining the difference between immediate and distant antecedents and then shifts to the slippery slope that is labeling behavior using distant antecedents as the reason. Chris educates about how behavior is influenced by a myriad of environmental conditions and gives advice on how to take away the subjectivity of a distant antecedent and instead listen to what the animal and their behavior is telling us. Stay tuned in for Chris's interesting "Training Tale" about a double mouth open with a tapir! Additionally check out "The TEC Talk Podcast: Presented by Natural Encounters, Inc.", a like-minded podcast hosted by Chris and Ari Bailey! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Chris you can find his contact information on the Natural Encounters, Inc. website. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
3:10 Introduction to Chris Jenkins
7:10 Immediate vs Distant Antecedents
13:20 Antecedents affecting motivation and how our view of them can affect behavior
15:50 Not letting our “arrogance” create roadblocks or excuses for behavior
21:30 Using antecedents to inform decisions while not labeling
26:25 Past consequences become future antecedents
33:00 Using behavioral observations vs our subjective thoughts
37:15 Recognizing that behavior is influenced by more than one condition
41:10 Advice for encouraging others to not place “blame” on distant antecedents
48:55 Critical role us as the human trainers play in behavior
51:50 “Training Tales”
This episode continues on "The Behaviors of..." series which dives into the human side of the animal care field. In this episode Justin Garner, Committee Chair for The ABMA, helps to give advice on how to successfully implement change. The discussion begins with ideas and advice on communicating ideas to others and how to then put those ideas into action. Justin and Shane also talk through ideas to overcome some of the common "roadblocks" to successfully implementing change including not enough time, we've always done it this way, and a lack of resources. Stay tuned in for a "Training Tale" about a ground hornbill's love for popcorn and how that almost prevented a new idea from coming to fruition. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Justin contact him on the ABMA Community or email justingarner80@gmail.com Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
3:10 Introduction to Justin Garner
4:35 Realistically starting to make change
13:45 Putting the focus on the animals and off yourself
18:50 Leading by example
28:20 Building relationships with your teammates
34:25 Potential Roadblock: “We don’t have enough time for this change”
41:20 Potential Roadblock: “This is what we have always done”
54:40 Potential Roadblock: “Lack of resources”
1:00:00 Be real, show your passions
1:03:20 Not being afraid to fail
1:06:55 Training Tales
This episode Sandy Jabas, The First VP of The ABMA, discusses what it means for a behavior to be under stimulus control. Sandy educates about how to tell if a behavior is under stimulus control and also the importance of stimulus control in our training. Sandy also teases the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference in Galveston, Texas hosted by Moody Gardens! Stay tuned in for three "Training Tales" about a funny mishap when shifting dolphins, a dolphin tail fluke splash gone wrong, and interesting research about dolphin dive reflex. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Sandy you can email firstvp@theabma.org. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
2:30 Intro to Sandy Jabas
5:50 Intro to the 2025 Annual Conference in Galveston, Texas
9:25 Definition of Stimulus Control
11:40 Practical Examples of Stimulus Control
15:20 How to tell if a behavior is under stimulus control?
23:25 Advice for challenges with training a behavior to be under stimulus control.
27:15 “Training Tales”
This episode, through daily live recordings, features a recap of the 2024 ABMA annual conference (April 15-19 2024) hosted by the Nashville Zoo. Each day of the conference, one of the presenters for the day discusses their presentation and other learning that impacted them.
Day 1: Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo & The Animal Behavior Community (carnivores@jerusalemzoo.org)
Day 2: Dr. Cathy Mingee, North Carolina Zoo (cathy.mingee@nczoo.org)
Day 3: Cam Luna, Nashville Zoo (cluna@nashvillezoo.org)
Day 4: Chandelle Cotter, Bird Treatment and Learning Center (chandelle_cotter@birdtlc.org)
If you are an ABMA member be sure to log in to Animalprofessional.com to watch most of the presentations and panels from the 2024 conference. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
7:00 Recap of Monday with Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo & The Animal Behavior Community
18:45 Recap of Tuesday with Cathy Mingee, North Carolina Zoo
35:45 Recap of Thursday with Cam Luna, Nashville Zoo
45:05 Recap of Friday with Chandelle Cotter, Bird Treatment and Learning Center
This episode Tim Sullivan, Brookfield Zoo Chicago and one of the founders of The ABMA, discusses how to use behavioral goals to provide purposeful lives to animals. Tim starts by giving a little history to the founding of The ABMA and then jumps into discussing why behavior is an all encompassing word. If you were at the 2024 ABMA annual conference in Nashville or if you are an ABMA member and watch Tim's environmental enrichment workshop on animalprofessional.com, this podcast episode is a great companion to his presentation. Tim educates about shifting our mindset in order to provide purposeful lives to animals. Taking ourselves away from providers and into a facilitator role, allowing animals to do the jobs that they do best! Tim also speaks to what it means to teach animals to be good learners instead of teaching animals "good" lessons and how we can all successfully navigate this shift in thinking. Stay tuned in for Tim's "Training Tale" about how he started thinking about the correlation between guest applause and the behaviors of the animal. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Tim you can email tim.sullivan@czs.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!
2:30 Introduction to Tim Sullivan
9:15 History on the founding of The ABMA
12:50 Why is behavior an all encompassing word for training, enrichment, etc.?
16:20 What does it mean to “Provide Purposeful Lives” to animals?
23:25 Teaching animals how to interact with an enrichment opportunity/do a novel behavior in their free time?
28:05 Getting started with changing the mindset
33:50 Shift in enrichment from items to experiences/opportunities
37:20 Teaching animals to be good learners, not teaching good lessons
48:05 “Training Tales”
