In episode 106 of ZK Live, Zach interviews Joshua Radigan of Just Write Painting. Joshua started his business four years ago after painting since age 17, learning via YouTube and on-the-job experience. Frustrated by limited growth at $15/hour, he went solo, initially struggling with business management and low-budget clients from HomeAdvisor. Now employing one full-time and one part-time worker, he focuses on detailed estimates and high-end finishes, aiming to scale by training young, eager hires.
Zach discusses the painting industry’s lack of professional businesses, driving unprepared entrepreneurs to start companies. His ZKFS app and courses aim to teach business, sales, and technical skills, with AI tools for estimates, bookkeeping, and a moderated forum for reliable advice. Joshua plans to use premium products like Fine Paints and target quality projects. Both emphasize learning from mistakes, building systems, and professionalizing the trade through education and community.
In a lively discussion, Zach Kenney of ZK Painting and Lee Stahl of TRH New York, a high-end design-build firm, delved into the unique challenges and triumphs of the construction industry in New York City. Stahl highlighted the "insane" pace of work in premium NYC buildings, where tight schedules and hefty penalty clauses (sometimes $2,000 a day) create immense pressure. He contrasted this with projects outside the city, which feel like a "holiday" due to fewer restrictions. The conversation also touched on the often-rumored "black market" of payoffs within buildings, with Stahl sharing anecdotes of demanding resident managers and his preference for genuine appreciation over illicit payments.
A significant portion of their talk focused on the cost and value of high-end renovations in New York. Stahl explained how a substantial part of the budget often goes to architects, general contractors, and designers before any physical work begins, inflating costs. He then revealed his firm's competitive edge: an algorithm that can price any residential renovation in NYC in just 15 minutes, providing clients with upfront, transparent costs for different levels of renovation. This technological advantage, he noted, helps his firm cut through industry opacity and compete effectively against those with inflated pricing structures.
Both Kenney and Stahl emphasized the "craft" aspect of their work, lamenting the lack of deep understanding from some professionals in the industry regarding true quality, especially in specialized areas like high-gloss painting. They highlighted the importance of direct client communication to manage expectations and ensure clients understand the value they're receiving. Stahl also lauded the "immigrant mentality" prevalent among his crews, characterized by a strong work ethic, accountability, and pride in craftsmanship.
Finally, the discussion touched on the challenges of scaling a high-quality business and the personal dedication required. Kenney expressed his realization that not all clients prioritize or even understand the top-tier quality his company offers, suggesting that an educational arm might be his true path to scalability. Stahl echoed this, acknowledging that their specialized businesses, while successful, remain deeply intertwined with their personal expertise and commitment, making rapid expansion difficult. Despite the daily "chaos," both expressed gratitude for being able to pursue their passion in an industry they love.
Zach interviews Mike Gore-Hickman of Painter Growth, a coaching program for painting contractors. Mike shares his journey from a Canadian university student to a successful entrepreneur, starting with College Pro, a student painting business, where he scaled a franchise to $200,000/month in sales by 2013, breaking company records. His success stemmed from strong mentorship, a supportive peer group, and learning from early mistakes like underbidding jobs and poor leadership.
Mike later started a commercial painting business but pivoted to a software startup, where he led sales and learned online business operations. During COVID, he returned to the painting industry, launching Painter Growth in October 2021 to help painters scale from zero to $100K, $100K to $500K, and beyond, through proven systems for lead generation, sales, and business management.
The discussion highlights the painting industry’s high profit margins (50% gross profit) and low disruption risk from automation, making it a strong opportunity for entrepreneurs. Mike emphasizes open-mindedness, accountability, and time management as key traits for successful clients, who range from young men in their 20s to older contractors. Painter Growth’s coaching avoids victim mentality and focuses on practical systems, like reducing paint store runs or using professional email addresses, to boost profitability and professionalism.
Zach announces a partnership with Painter Growth, integrating their training on time management, lead generation, and pricing into the ZKFS platform for $50/month, aiming to help 250,000 owner-operators scale or optimize their businesses. Both stress the importance of questioning decisions, avoiding ego-driven choices (e.g., unprofitable shop rentals), and investing in coaching to unlock potential, contrasting survival mode with strategic growth.
Tanner Mullen, CEO of DripJobs, shared his journey from painting with his father as a teen, Mullen faced adversity during the 2008 recession, including his parents’ addiction and his mother’s death from cancer in 2015. After working in restaurants, car sales, and banking, he quit a stable $80,000-a-year job to start Premium Painting, inspired by Eric Barstow’s subcontracting course. His father’s ongoing struggles forced Mullen to learn the business independently, overcoming early failures like a poorly executed first job.
Mullen’s sales background and frustration with manual lead management led to DripJobs, a software automating contractor lead follow-ups. He initially created automations for 50 companies using tools like Zapier and Active Campaign, then invested $200,000 to develop DripJobs, funding it through his painting business. Challenges included a problematic co-founder who stole code and customer data, but Mullen recovered with help from a friend and found a reliable co-founder, Jason, on Reddit. DripJobs now serves 2,100 businesses across the US and Canada.
Mullen is launching Routimized, an AI-driven app to optimize contractor schedules by minimizing drive time, aiming to save business owners time—a core value proposition. His story highlights resilience, self-reliance, and the power of micro-iterations, emphasizing that success stems from adversity, preparation, and a focus on personal growth over external competition.
I reconnect with Jason the Painter, who, 182 weeks after his last appearance, shares his focus on restoring pre-1940 homes using breathable linseed oil paints, emphasizing their superiority for old structures over modern paints that cause rot. Jason discusses his solo business model, leveraging social media locally to attract clients, and his experiments with linseed-based products, while Zach highlights the ZKFS app’s discounts and courses to support painters. The episode blends Jason’s journey from music to painting, his niche in historic restoration, and practical tips like using Cooper’s Strip Club stripper for efficient paint removal.
In this triumphant return of ZK Live after a three-year hiatus, host Zach Kenney kicks off Episode 101 with renewed energy and a bold vision to support painting contractors. Reflecting on his 100-episode journey and subsequent burnout, Zach shares his evolution from a struggling painter to a passionate advocate for profitability and practicality in the trade. He introduces the ZKFS app, a game-changing ecosystem designed to unite thousands of contractors, offering scale-driven benefits like discounted paint and tools, plus highly detailed online courses. With courses on Fine Paints of Europe and upcoming ones on 2K cabinet refinishing, translated into Spanish and Portuguese, Zach aims to shorten the learning curve for painters worldwide.
Zach gets candid about the pitfalls of over-delivering on projects, debunking the myth that sacrificing profit for perfection builds a lucrative portfolio. Drawing from personal experience, he urges painters to align client budgets with expectations, embrace job costing, and prioritize profitability over ego. He envisions a community-driven app feature where contractors anonymously share mistakes and solutions, leveraging AI to create a searchable database for troubleshooting issues like pinholes or sags. With a $50/month subscription and a 7-day free trial, the ZKFS app promises to pay for itself through exclusive discounts and unparalleled content. Zach also teases upcoming interviews with past guests to explore their growth and plans to share his own business rollercoaster. Tune in for an inspiring blend of transparency, practical advice, and a call to make the painting industry more profitable and supportive.
Where to Listen/Watch: Available on major podcast platforms and the ZKFS app. Visit www.zkfsonline.com for more details and to join the community.
Zach sits down with Jason the Painter for episode 100 of ZK Live!
Zach sits down with the successful Matt Kuyper, of Harpeth Painting!
Zach sits down with world-renowned craftsman and decorative painter Pierre Finkelstein!
Zach sits down with young entrepreneur Noah Kanter of NTH Degree Painting!
Zach sits down with Matt, an Australian painter killing the game down under!
Zach sits down with the good folks over at Armstrong Clark for a deep dive into their Stain company!
Zach sits down with long time friend Nick Slavik as he returns to ZK Live!
Zach sits down with Kevin Cradock!
Zach sits down with Jason Phillips of Phillips Home Improvements!
Zach sits down with Jake Bresson of Bresson Painting!
Zach sits down with Tom Kligerman of "Ike Kligerman Barkley"
Zach sits down with his 2nd Pro Image Paint guest!!
Zach sits down with the talented Kayla Payne!
Zach sits down with Jason to talk about his new business venture, "XC Fine Finishes"!
