Josh and Michelle Tooker examine Keyes's comments about and references to abducting and murdering couples. They take a look at what exactly that might mean, follow-up on previously covered cases, and take a look at new ones. And then they hone in on what the team may have been overlooking all along.  

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Michelle Tooker. 
It was edited and post-produced by Josh Hallmark.
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky and Jordan Taylor.  

TROVA TRIP to ICELAND
Learn more and/or reserve your spot at https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/iceland/iceland-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2026  
 
PATREON
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Music by: Radical Face, Itai Argaman, Sergey Cheremisinov, and Nocturne. 
Featured song by: Peter & Kerry 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen Studer, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey Deatly, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

Join Josh, Shana, and Tooker in Iceland on our next Trova Trip: June 13 - 19, 2026.

Check out the itinerary and RESERVE your spot today

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

Josh follows up on a new tip from FBI Special Agent Ted Halla. It takes him to familiar ground, both literally and in cases he's looked into previously. This new tip, with some research and fascinating conversations, compels Josh to some interesting and shocking conclusions. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, and Jordan Taylor.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
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Music by: Radical Face, Odyssey, and 9 Moons. 
Featured song by: Hannah Cohen. 

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, DeWayne C, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Pink, SC, Bethany Heintz, Michael Randall, Ashley Kupin, Carrie, Kathy Nation, Emily Paine, Megan Inman, Lauren Ferri, Carol, Robin, Shelly, Sabrina Abbott, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Trista, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Tori Myers, Nichole, and Lydia Rodarte Quayle.


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Josh goes over the investigation into Israel Keyes's death; including what was found in his cell, what led to it, and how it happened. Plus new information opens an online can of worms, and sends Josh to Washington state. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, and Jordan Taylor.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

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Music by: Radical Face, Sero, Helvv Kryd, and Nocturne. 
Featured song by: Stars. 

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, DeWayne C, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Pink, SC, Bethany Heintz, Michael Randall, Ashley Kupin, Carrie, Kathy Nation, Emily Paine, Megan Inman, Lauren Ferri, Carol, Robin, Shelly, Sabrina Abbott, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Trista, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Tori Myers, Nichole, and Lydia Rodarte Quayle.


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In the season 7 premiere, Josh goes over a long list of significant new evidence, answers a few big questions, and asks plenty more new questions. A picture of a woman found in Keyes's car paints a very clear picture of some of his activity. New maps, journals, writings, and more set the stage for an eye-opening season.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, and Jordan Taylor.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

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Music by: Radical Face, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Jozeque. 
Featured song by: Thom Yorke.
Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, DeWayne C, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Pink, SC, Bethany Heintz, Michael Randall, Ashley Kupin, Carrie, Kathy Nation, Emily Paine, Megan Inman, Lauren Ferri, Carol, Robin, Shelly, Sabrina Abbott, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Trista, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Tori Myers, Nichole, and Lydia Rodarte Quayle.


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As we prepare for Season 7 of True Crime Bullsh**, we're sharing episodes from the past 6 seasons that will be foundational for the upcoming season.

SPONSORS:
BetterHelp: Go to www.betterhelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
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Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As we prepare for Season 7 of True Crime Bullsh**, we're sharing episodes from the past 6 seasons that will be foundational for the upcoming season.

SPONSORS:
BetterHelp: Go to www.betterhelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
Quince: Go to www.quince.com/TCBS to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As we prepare for Season 7 of True Crime Bullsh**, we're sharing episodes from the past 6 seasons that will be foundational for the upcoming season.

SPONSORS:
BetterHelp: Go to www.betterhelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
Quince: Go to www.quince.com/TCBS to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As we prepare for Season 7 of True Crime Bullsh**, we're sharing episodes from the past 6 seasons that will be foundational for the upcoming season.

SPONSORS:
BetterHelp: Go to www.betterhelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
Quince: Go to www.quince.com/TCBS to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order.




Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As we prepare for Season 7 of True Crime Bullsh**, we're sharing episodes from the past 6 seasons that will be foundational for the upcoming season.

SPONSORS:
BetterHelp: Go to www.betterhelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month. 
Quince: Go to www.quince.com/TCBS to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order.



Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As we prepare for Season 7 of True Crime Bullsh**, we're sharing episodes from the past 6 seasons that will be foundational for the upcoming season.

SPONSORS:
Quince: Go to www.quince.com/TCBS to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order.


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As we prepare for Season 7 of True Crime Bullsh**, we're sharing episodes from the past 6 seasons that will be foundational for the upcoming season.

SPONSORS:
Quince: Go to www.quince.com/TCBS to get free shipping and 365-day returns on your next order.


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

Last week, Tim, Lance, Greg, and Lou announced a new lead in the Brianna Maitland case. So, Josh sat down to get the new information, discuss its potential implications, and see how it's moving the investigation into Brianna's disappearance forward.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

In the second season premiere, Josh digs into two years of research into the lives and crimes of Steven Lorenzo and Scott Schweickert, in hopes of identifying other victims. A list of 25 missing and murdered men, across multiple jursidctions, launches a deep-dive investigation that examines the lives of these 25 men, Lorenzo & Schweickert, other area serial killers, intersectionality, homophobia, politics, and more. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark 

Featuring: 
Albert Perkins 

Resources: 

• NAMUS.gov  
• CharleyProject.org
• The Tampa Bay Times  
• The Tampa Tribune  

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Tamuz Dekel, Grissly Bill, and Yehezkel Raz  
Featured music by: TV on the Radio  

Patreon Producers: Amy Basil, Dale Akstin, Kendall C, Amelia Hancock, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton Whedon, Jen J, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Manolis Bouloukos, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Pink, Robin Wolfe, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesday Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Bethany Heintz, Carrie, Emily Paine, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Kathy Nation, Megan Inman, Rene LaPlante, Sabrina Abbot, Spooky, Tori Myers  

Sponsors:  
BetterHelp: Go to www.BetterHelp.com/TCB to get 10% off your first month.  
Green Chef: Go to www.GreenChef.com/50TrueCrimeBS and use code 50TRUECRIMEBS for 50% off your first month, then 20% off two months with free shipping.  

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

The season six finale is over a decade in the making; Josh sits down with FBI Special Agent Ted Halla to discuss the Keyes investigation, share new information and ideas, rule out potential victims, and develop our clearest look yet at the details surrounding 5 of Keyes's victims. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.  
Featuring: FBI SA Ted Halla.  
Sound editing by: Darron Wood of the Defense Diaries podcast.   

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

Music by: William Hellfire, Radical Face, Sergey Cheremisinov, and Sero.  
Featured song: The Museum by Half Waif  

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

Josh continues his look into the strange disappearance of Roger Jung. The team analyzes tips, reviews the Keyes timeline, data mines, and gets some help from the Everett Police Department.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, Jordan Taylor, and Kim K.  
Sound editing by: Darron Wood of the Defense Diaries podcast.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

Trova Trip to Chile & Argentina

Music by: William Hellfire, HIVE, Radical Face, Sergey Cheremisinov. 
Featured song by: Sunriver

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

The team deep-dives a Washington State case that has come up time and time again over the years. New case files, new leads, and a strange online comment in a very cold case turn a mysterious disappearance on its head.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Research assistance by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, Jordan Taylor, and Kim K.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

Trova Trip to Chile & Argentina

Music by: William Hellfire, Itai Argaman, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov. 
Featured song by: Katie Herzig  

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

Josh receives an email.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
This episode featured: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, Jordan Taylor, and Joshua and Dakota from Somewhere in the Pines.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

YouTube After Show
Trova Trip to Chile & Argentina

Music by: William Hellfire, Radical Face, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov. 
Featured song by: Kashka  

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

As the investigation into Marble Arvidson's disappearance heats up, it takes Josh and the team to a second nearby disappearance with some overwhelming connections to Keyes. And a theory the team considered several years ago, rears its very ugly head.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With additional research assistance by: Jordan Taylor, Shana Wilensky, and Michelle Tooker.  
 
Resources included:
• https://www.boston.com/uncategorized/noprimarytagmatch/2011/10/19/police-search-for-missing-shelburne-woman/
• https://digital.nepr.net/news/2016/08/29/hurricane-irene-its-been-five-years-since-shelburne-falls-building-sailed-away/
• https://www.wwlp.com/news/hurricane-irene-remembered-in-franklin-county-five-years-later/

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: 
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

Music by: William Hellfire, La Bon, Yehezkel Rez, Dan Mayo, and Parhelion. 
Featured song by: The National  

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

Supplemental files in the Marble Arvidson case take the team on a strange journey. New interviews with Marble's friends shine a light on who he was and where he might have gone on the day he vanished. And that information shines a new light not just on Keyes, but four other disappearances in the area. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With additional research by: Jordan Taylor and Shana Wilensky.  
And research assistance by: Michelle Tooker. 

This episode features: 
Shana Wilensky and Michelle Tooker. 

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: 
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

Music by: William Hellfire, La Bon, and Radical Face. 
Featured song: "I Follow Rivers" by: Marika Hackman  

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annemarie Cash, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boukolus, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Nicole Guzman, Pink, SC, Shelly Brewer, Sherri D, Trista, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan M, Jordan Taylor, Michael Beers, Sara Cee, Shawna Hardin, Spooky Express, and Lydia Fiedler.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.