Luke O’Mahoney, Founder & Creator of Sapienˣ, joined The Modern People Leader.
We talked about the three emerging models of product-led HR, Agile theater, and how an enterprise company phased its shift to product-led HR.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live Austin.
----
(06:23) Luke’s early career in RPO and connecting talent acquisition to business strategy
(07:15) Transition into People Leadership and discovering Agile HR
(08:48) Applying product and marketing frameworks to people and culture
(09:54) Discovering a community around “PeopleOps as a Product” and founding SapientX
(10:46) Stephen reflects on HR’s evolution from Ulrich’s model to Agile
(12:37) Luke on why this iteration of Agile HR is sticking
(13:18) How being “unburdened by legacy HR” enabled innovation
(15:16) The shift from a procurement mindset to a product mindset in HR
(17:28) The gateway to product-led PX and why accessibility matters
(23:16) Luke explains the 3 models: HR as a Service, Programs as Products, and Work as the Product
(25:43) What “work as the product” means in practice
(26:50) How to determine which model fits your organization
(28:17) Context and readiness: tailoring PX as a product to company culture and maturity
(31:49) Luke defines “theater of Agile” and the danger of rituals without mindset
(34:04) Why HR needs to focus on real problems, not just initiatives
(35:25) Biggest blockers to real product-led transformation in HR
(36:44) HR’s perfectionism problem and the courage to experiment
(40:37) Why progress over perfection is key in PeopleOps innovation
(41:15) Stephen’s cohort experience with Jessica Zwaan’s Built for People
(44:15) Luke’s practical framework: solving employee problems and driving growth
(46:13) Iterative experimentation and measuring impact through baselines
(48:18) The need for playbooks and accessible frameworks
(49:13) Luke’s recommended resources and open-source toolkits
(51:00) Real-world examples: TomTom, Sastrify, and Build a Rocket Boy
(52:42) How TomTom built a People Product Team within a large enterprise
(55:10) Applying product-led HR even as a one-person team
(58:04) Launching HR products creatively—Gamified benefits and internal “fake employee” campaigns
(01:02:26) Why GTM mindset matters in HR launches
(01:03:11) The ROI of joy and excitement in PeopleOps work
(01:03:40) What HR leaders can expect on the other side of PX as a product
(01:04:40) Earning the seat at the table through measurable business impact
(01:06:52) Connecting people, process, and technology for business growth
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Darren Murph, a leading voice on distributed work and former leader at GitLab, Zillow, and Andela returned to the show.
We dug into the remote first maturity scale, the four-pillar operating model (knowledge, project, self, performance), and how to build an “org brain.”
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live Austin.
----
(04:42) Darren’s new chapter: going independent and why the timing was right
(08:46) What’s changed since 2–3 years ago in remote/distributed work
(09:13) Identity crisis in companies and the RTO narrative
(11:09) The “operating system” of a company: where communication breaks
(12:45) What ELTs are really discussing now
(14:07) Under-the-radar topic: performance management as “fix the car, not just the driver”
(16:40) AI readiness requires distributed-friendly systems (recording, documentation)
(18:01) Remote-first maturity scale: where firms think they are vs. where they land
(19:44) Knowledge management as the first pillar and the “org brain” concept
(21:50) The four-pillar framework: knowledge → project → self → performance
(24:13) “Gold in, gold out”: documentation and meeting capture fuel AI
(26:00) Exemplars and ownership: Atlassian, GitLab, Doist; treating knowledge like a product
(28:18) Tools and handbooks: Notion, public handbooks, getting started fast
(30:13) MVP of an org brain and how functions build it out
(34:34) Project management done right vs. 47 one-on-ones; insurance/IT ticketing analogies
(37:47) Why this matters: time as compensation; segue to self-management
(39:59) Team agreements and operating with flexibility
(42:16) Measuring performance better: meetings, survey data, retention
(46:19) Legacy reviews vs. modern, continuous performance practices (Juro example)
(47:10) Organizational psychology: complexity theory and the pull back to “coherence”
(54:03) Rapid-fire questions
(58:43) Where to find Darren and work with him
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Brandon Weber, Co-founder & CEO of Nava Benefits, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about why benefits have become the second-largest company expense — and how HR can “moneyball” their healthcare spend, cut down on benefits-related admin work, and deliver better employee outcomes through the emerging “alt marketplace.”
----
Nava Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live Austin.
----
(07:07) Brandon’s Founder Journey and 10-Month Sabbatical Spark
(14:06) The Broker as Market Maker: Distribution Problem in Employer Healthcare
(16:27) Why Benefits Are Strategic: From Cost Center to Business Lever
(18:28) Benefits Jumped to #2 Company Expense and a Talent Magnet
(20:53) HR Holds the Healthcare Purse Strings for Half of America
(21:15) Being Strategic with a Small People Team
(21:39) Explosion of Benefits Complexity (from ~6 to ~20 offerings)
(26:47) Status-Quo “Stockholm Syndrome” and Breaking the Cycle
(28:51) 2025 Renewal Pain Driving Change
(31:02) Automating Benefits Admin
(33:11) The “Alt Marketplace” of Health Plans, PBMs, and Point Solutions
(33:39) Examples of "Alt Marketplace": Garner Health Network Design; Sidecar Health Price Transparency
(40:58) Agentic Future: Auditing Carrier Bills and Auto-Remediation
(42:18) Renewal Season AI: From Spreadsheet Chaos to Real-Time Scenario Modeling
(43:16) Zapier Example: Benefits Help Desk and the Real Cost of Repeated Questions
(45:06) Nava’s AI Strategy for HR: Support, Admin Automation, Smarter Spend
(47:35) “Moneyball” Your Benefits Spend with Data Science
(48:06) Why Brokers’ 20-Year Spreadsheets Fail HR and CFOs
(51:05) Rapid Fire Questions
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Andrew Golden, Chief People Officer at RetailNext, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about how he’s driving transformation, why HR and IT must partner more closely, the power of building lightweight AI solutions in-house, and why he’s optimistic about the future of people teams.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
----
(10:15) Burnout, Leaving RetailNext & Working in Family Accounting Firm
(11:49) Explaining RetailNext’s Business: Hardware + data insights for retail stores
(13:30) Why Andrew Returned to RetailNext & Rejoining After Private Equity Acquisition
(16:35) Restarting PeopleOps as a Product at RetailNext
(17:59) Partnering with PX Sapiens & Lean PX Design Principles
(20:16) Portugal Trip Lightbulb Moment: Rethinking HRBP model
(22:21) Moving Away from Traditional Org Charts → Workflow Alignment
(24:16) Practical Application: Embedding People Team into Business Workflows
(26:36) The Three Workflows: Pre-Customer, Post-Customer, and Transitions
(28:08) EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) & Core Processes in HR
(29:50) How EOS + PeopleOps as a Product Fit Together
(32:18) Redefining “Strategic HR” as Operationally Relevant HR
(35:20) Advice for Skeptics: Why Agile PX Matters
(36:57) Building HR Tools with AI: Andrew’s Employee Engagement Platform
(40:33) The SaaS vs. Build Trade-Off: Flexibility with AI Tools
(42:58) Why Now Is the Time: Optimism in HR’s Future
(59:36) How HR and IT Partner Together at RetailNext
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Gena Smith, CHRO at LVMH North America, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how she sparked an AI transformation across 75 LVMH brands, why HR should lead AI change management, and how to reframe AI adoption as a cultural and creative advantage.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
----
(05:07) Gena’s Career Journey: From Texas to Global HR Leader
(10:34) Passion for People & Culture Sparked Abroad
(11:01) Serving on the Board of Parsons School of Design
(13:26) What’s in the LVMH Portfolio (and What People Don’t Know)
(16:55) The Culture at LVMH: Pride, Legacy, and Humility
(18:53) Managing People & Culture Across 75 Brands
(19:57) LVMH’s Decentralized Structure & Core Values
(22:48) How HR Anchors Culture Across the Group(24:11) The WSJ Conference that Sparked Her AI Learning Journey
(26:34) Building the HR AI Task Force & Their First Discoveries
(30:02) The “It Feels Like Cheating” Employee Mindset Around AI
(31:29) Why Marketing the AI Message Internally is Key
(32:33) Using AI in Creative Studios & Operational Areas
(36:28) Tackling Fear of AI & Job Security Concerns
(37:18) Why Upskilling is the Real Future-Proofing Strategy
(39:31) Normalizing AI Adoption & Creating Comfort
(42:21) Hot Take: HR Will Write the Blueprint for AI in Business
(43:49) Why HR Must Be on Every AI Governance Board
(45:14) Scaling Change Management Through Internal Campaigns
(46:29) Building LVMH’s AI Marketing Campaign from Scratch
(48:43) Advice for HR Leaders: Start Your Learning Journey Now
(50:54) Why Human Skills Will Become the Ultimate Currency
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
What happens when you put a mic in front of HR leaders and ask them for their unfiltered takes on AI?
In this episode, Daniel and Stephen recap their trip to HR Tech — where they recorded 12 quick-hit “AI Confessions” from folks they met on the conference room floor. From agentic workflows and custom GPT chaos to the real blockers slowing down AI adoption, this one’s packed with candid insights from the front lines.
You’ll hear what HR leaders from companies like Lumen, Articulate, and Airbnb.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
----
(06:00) HR Tech debrief setup and the “non-Expo Expo” vision
(08:26) Vendor noise: everyone promises everything; how to curate for quality
(10:13) Trend: agentic workflows vs. true autonomous agents
(13:16) “One UI to rule them all” and platforms trying to do it all
(16:18) The HR “sandbox” idea and customization/vibe-coding future
(18:02) Governance should come first, not last
(19:24) New format intro: “AI Confessions” clip series
(20:10) Articulate: hype vs. reality, custom GPT maintenance tax
(24:36) Snapshot pain: stale docs and refresh gaps in tools
(25:04) Why an org brain/source of truth matters
(26:58) Biggest blockers called out: connectivity across the stack, tech limits
(30:57) Magic wand from Clip 1: payroll automation and smarter resume parsing
(34:43) Lumen: “AI diffusion,” empathy-first change and upskilling
(36:32) Creating safe spaces to experiment; role-by-role reskilling
(45:35) Myths and multi-agent maturity: where we really are
(48:20) Senior vs. junior agents; linking SMEs to AI via the org brain
(55:05) Airbnb: scouting the recruiting tech stack
(57:33) Is HR behind on tech adoption compared to other functions
(1:00:49) Biggest blocker: skills and resourcing gap in HR/TA teams
(1:03:32) Upskilling in practice: stipends, bootcamps, internal rhythms
(1:05:27) TA automation targets: scheduling, intake, JD drafts, calibration slates
(1:06:09) Change management is the hard part
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Angela Crossman, Hernan Chiosso, and Jean-Luc Charles joined us to debrief the “Yellow Pod” conversation from MPL Live NYC and what the group is actually doing with AI at work.
We covered opportunities vs blockers, “AI as coach” guardrails, why HR should own enablement, actionable next steps, and predictions for the AI-powered workplace.
----
Sponsor Links:
🔗 Book a quick walk through of Nava HQ.
MPL Links:
----
(09:40) Why structured spaces help leaders make sense of AI noise
(11:40) Untangling AI talk: personal vs professional; HR practice vs company strategy
(12:47) State of adoption: ahead of the curve vs “head in the sand”
(14:00) Panel reflections: Dropbox digital twins, Duolingo’s AI mandate, leadership buy-in spectrum
(15:43) HR’s role with tech + legal: ethics, generational views, and people experience
(16:27) “Who owns AI?”—budget, skills, and priorities across functions
(19:36) Change management over pure tech: why HR is primed to lead adoption
(21:01) Community accelerates AI: the prompt for pods (biggest blocker and opportunity)
(23:31) Why the small-group format worked: quiet room, trust, generosity
(25:08) Opportunities first: practical use cases; AI for manager coaching (pros/cons)
(27:28) Blockers: ownership, resources, risk, and vendor noise
(28:05) Quick poll: Should AI be a “coach”? Alignment with values and judgment
(29:21) Using AI as a thinking partner—not a verdict
(31:43) People team enablement: prompt patterns, values-trained GPTs, internal guardrails
(32:20) Example from MPL: iterating a “super prompt” after guest feedback
(33:50) One action to take now: targeted demos to learn real use cases
(34:42) Don’t ban—enable: intentional adoption beats resistance
(35:30) Practical rollout ideas: leadership exercises with starter prompts
(37:07) Resource tip: OpenAI Academy prompts for HR (as a baseline to build on)
(38:13) Mind-blower: executive digital twins; event improvements for Austin (Dec 11)
(39:43) Feedback: design for introverts; keep a light warm-up
(40:26) Preserve the magic: curated room + structured but flexible prompts
(41:55) Rapid-fire predictions: the AI-powered workplace
(42:29) Prediction #1: AI is both disruption and solution (reskilling at scale)
(43:48) Prediction #2: A new kind of creativity—partnering with “semi-intelligent” tools
(44:31) Prediction #3: Hiring shifts toward problem framing and critical thinking
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Joy Rothschild, Chief Human Resources Officer at Omni Hotels & Resorts, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
----
(05:21) Joy’s origin story: from hospitality ops to finding a home in HR
(07:48) Early career breaks, sponsorship, and a philosophy of giving people a chance
(09:59) Layoff, comeback call, and stepping into the top HR role
(10:33) Boundaries after a career shock and sustaining a healthier pace
(14:51) Omni in 2025: brand position, ownership model, and high-touch service strategy
(18:39) “You have a culture”: balancing the guest–owner–associate “trilogy”
(21:00) Crisis choices: 9/11 vs. COVID, service tradeoffs, and rebuilding momentum
(23:13) Betting big during downturns: PGA Frisco and major openings through COVID
(24:31) Tenure, recognition, and lessons from being let go after 18 years
(26:26) Returning with boundaries and perspective
(27:54) The “Gung Ho” boardroom moment and trusting your convictions
(30:20) Dusting off the classics: reviving core Omni programs and cross-functional buy-in
(32:28) Power of One 1.0: empowerment and 19 service points
(34:32) Power of All detour and the case to simplify
(35:34) Power of One 2.0: three plain-English principles that everyone remembers
(36:29) Stories that stick: macaw video, the Herman Miller chair, and solving what you see
(39:55) Wedding saved: saying yes and training teams to own outcomes
(41:28) Why this sticks when other initiatives do not
(43:42) “Training that sticks” playbook: ops partnership, writers, pilots, and scorecards
(46:10) Logistics at scale: 8,500 front-line learners, 90 trainers, monthly reporting
(47:58) Mantras with teeth: Elevate Service, Elevate Revenue, and tying bonuses to usage
(49:48) Ownership, accountability, and why ops should teach service
(51:17) Rapid Fire: advice for new HR, “culture warrior,” and borrowing Chewy’s playbook
(54:06) Who’s next: Will Guidara and the craft of unreasonable hospitality
(56:00) A quick story about Milk Bar cookies and influence
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Jessica Zwaan joins MPL Build to show HR leaders how to craft business cases that CEOs actually approve, using BLUF, the So What test, and clear links to revenue and savings. We walk through conservative projections, objection handling, and a live role-play on adopting a performance platform in today’s fiscally skeptical environment.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
----
(05:19) Jessica’s hierarchy: make money, save money, then time
(08:45) Jessica’s shift from words to numbers and data
(12:20) Tying HR work to revenue in practice(13:52) Choosing revenue vs savings and building the argument
(15:42) “I cracked it” moment: McCann Worldgroup restructuring win
(19:16) The “So What” Test explained and how to run it
(21:57) Anticipating objections inside the deck
(24:20) Role-play setup: $50k performance platform after HR Tech
(25:32) Start with the problem: talent density and revenue leakage
(26:08) Connecting performance signals to revenue and savings(28:31) From messy data to leading indicators leaders can use
(30:23) Pitch format preferences(31:12) BLUF: Bottom line up front
(32:39) Estimating impact and why to lean conservative
(34:30) Standing behind numbers with board scrutiny
(36:10) Is budget still tight and what fiscal skepticism means
(37:43) Why rigor matters in an AI-saturated vendor landscape
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Kim Minnick, Founder of Code Traveller HR, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We dug into why performance reviews often fail, how companies can decouple performance from compensation, creative ways to reward employees beyond pay, and the importance of transparency, choice, and designing programs that reflect company values.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
----
(11:26) Why Most Companies Get Performance Management Wrong
(15:59) The Noise & Confusion Around Rethinking Performance
(19:44) Building Programs Unique to Your Company’s Mission & People
(21:18) Decoupling Performance from Compensation
(24:06) Why Performance Management Has Low Credibility with Employees
(28:29) Shifting Rewards Beyond Pay & Limiting Overwork
(32:57) Keeping Compensation-Driven Employees Engaged
(34:04) Evolving Compensation Models & Budgeting Differently
(40:26) Why Transparency in Compensation Matters
(43:29) Defining Company Values to Drive Rewards & Recognition
(45:30) Giving Employees Choice in How They’re Rewarded
(50:30) The Risk of Turning Rewards into a “Feature Comparison”
(52:34) Why Letting Employees Choose Could Be a Good Thing
(55:33) HR Tech Limitations & Building Custom Solutions
(57:57) The Economics of DIY vs. B2B SaaS Tools
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
This episode of The Modern People Leader dives into the realities of leading through constant change, featuring guests Mita Mallick, Shelby Garrison, and Kelly Lohr.
We discussed how HR leaders can navigate layoffs with transparency and humanity, the importance of supporting both exiting and remaining employees, and how to build resilience and adaptability into workplace culture.
----
Sponsor Links:
🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.
MPL Links:
----
(07:13) Why Layoffs Feel Like a New Normal
(09:25) Shelby on the Disconnect Between Job Reports and Employee Reality
(14:27) Kelly on Building the Muscle to Adapt to Change
(18:31) Mita on Transparency Before Layoffs Happen
(21:27) The Shift in Employer Branding Conversations
(22:37) Mistakes Companies Make During Layoffs That Damage Brand
(25:04) Moments That Matter Most When Communicating Change
(28:29) Shelby’s Two-Audience Approach to Layoff Planning
(32:05) What Modern Support for Exiting Employees Looks Like
(35:33) Balancing Empathy and Clarity in Layoff Conversations
(38:58) Supporting Remaining Employees After Layoffs
(45:17) Mita on Allowing Space to Acknowledge Those Who Left
(47:11) Shelby on Bringing a Human-First Approach to Change
(51:00) Q&A: The Problem with Silent Layoffs and How to Rebuild Trust
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Yemi Akisanya, Head of JEDI (Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion) at Axon, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about how the DEI conversation is evolving post-2020, why quotas are being replaced with performance-aligned strategies, and how Axon is making inclusion measurable and mission-critical.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
----
(06:24) Yemi’s Life & Career Update: From Groupon to Axon
(08:51) What is Axon? Tech That Protects Life (Explained Simply)
(11:46) The Current State of DEI: Legal Risks, Compliance, and Backlash
(13:04) How 2020 Changed the DEI Landscape—And Where It Went Off Track
(15:28) The Rise and Fall of Quota-Based DEI and Legal Pushback
(17:53) The New DEI Mandate: Must Be Performance-Driven and Legally Sound
(19:30) Title VII and the Legal Boundaries of Hiring Decisions
(22:49) Axon’s Hiring Funnel Strategy: Focus on Top-of-Funnel Diversity
(24:17) Why Diverse Input Without Inclusion Breeds Tokenism
(26:48) Stephen’s Experience as a Diversity Officer (2009–2011)
(29:39) The Unintended Consequences of Quota-Driven Metrics
(32:26) What’s Changed? Not the Law, but the Enforcement & Tone
(34:06) Clarifying What Legal vs. Illegal DEI Looks Like Today
(38:29) Expanding the Talent Funnel: Tactics Axon Uses to Diversify Without Quotas
(41:44) Events, Job Boards, and Global Outreach to Source Talent
(42:59) Applying a Funnel Mindset: DEI as Performance Marketing
(45:10) Did DEI Practitioners Go Too Far? Owning the Missteps
(48:03) Why Bias Isn’t Bad—But It Must Be Checked and Understood
(50:30) Inclusion Surveys as Strategic Input: Measuring What Holds People Back
(51:15) Daniel’s 2020 ERG Experience: Culture Celebration vs. Business Impact
(53:43) Evolving ERGs into Performance Assets (Not Just Event Groups)
(56:47) Performance-Driven DEI: Monitoring Ratings, Promotions, Engagement
(58:47) Training for All, Cultural Context, and Blending Communities
(01:01:13) Localizing DEI Efforts Globally: Lessons from Groupon
(01:03:32) Axon’s Inclusion Programs, Pay Equity Audits, and Cross-Cultural Equity
(01:08:20) Who Should We Have Next? Shoutout to Elizabeth Hart at Axon
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Jessica Zwaan, Author of Built for People & COO at Talentful, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about AI adoption in HR, from policy design to hands-on building. We explored the “Wild West” of AI use, tool selection, overcoming the stigma of ‘cheating,’ and practical frameworks like the 4Bs (Bot, Build, Borrow, Buy) to guide adoption and innovation.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Sign up for the MPL Insider Guide for HR Tech.
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(07:07) Kicking off the AI Wild West discussion in HR
(09:10) “AI abstinence” vs. open use – two ends of the spectrum
(12:00) No new ideas – why blocking AI is like banning books
(17:05) Stigma around AI use and feelings of ‘cheating’
(20:18) AI as an Iron Man suit, not Ultron – decision-making analogy
(22:29) Org-wide vs. departmental AI policies
(24:20) Jessica’s HR AI stack: Sana, ODA, BrightHire, ChatGPT
(26:11) Why GPT was chosen over other LLMs
(29:37) Functional flexibility in AI tool adoption
(31:58) Privacy, disclosure, and “don’t be dumb” rules
(33:15) The 4Bs framework – Bot, Build, Borrow, Buy
(36:51) Different levels of “build” – from zaps to full applications
(41:59) Why not to fear losing custom AI knowledge when employees leave
(46:43) Borrowing vs. buying – making smart investment decisions
(48:41) Avoiding “hire first” thinking – the Mythical Man Month
(53:28) How to start: planning, tool exploration, and playful learning
(56:05) Voice note + walk workflow for AI productivity
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Pilar Muner, VP of People & Talent at ChartHop, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We covered:
- Why fractional work isn’t always the burnout cure-all it’s made out to be
-How ChartHop is using AI to power HR workflows in-house
- The AI vendor checklist every HR leader needs — what to ask, what to watch for, and how to cut through the hype
If you’re evaluating AI tools for your people team, this episode will give you a practical lens on security, data integrity, and what to prioritize in vendor selection.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(10:56) Pilar’s Journey: From law aspirations to falling into HR
(13:07) Career Philosophy: “Just say yes” and the path through early-stage companies
(15:07) Why Pilar Went Fractional: A health-focused shift, not burnout
(17:18) Accidental Fractional Life: A few lucky client handoffs snowball
(18:46) Is Fractional Less Stressful? The importance of boundaries
(20:45) HR for HR: Why burnout doesn’t disappear without behavior change
(23:39) Boundary setting and designing your own career
(25:09) ChartHop Time: The magic of internal and external facing people ops
(26:37) Product Deep Dive: ChartHop’s back-end data architecture explained
(28:36) Why ChartHop is Built for AI from the Ground Up
(30:30) Empathy in HR Tech: ChartHop’s internal culture surprises
(32:27) ChartHop for Builders: Why it clicks for HR innovators
(35:42) Pilar’s AI Takeaways: Sophisticated people analytics—even at 25 people
(37:22) AI + HR Data: Beyond dashboards into contextual intelligence
(39:30) The Risks of Uploading Data to Public LLMs
(41:47) What ChartHop Does to Keep Client Data Secure
(44:51) Questions HR Leaders Should Ask AI Vendors
(47:21) Is HR Ready for AI? Why sitting on the sidelines isn’t safe
(49:08) Use Case Example: AI-powered performance review feedback
(51:09) Human Judgment Still Required: Don’t rely solely on AI
(52:52) The Importance of Judicious AI Prompts in HR
(53:19) ChartHop’s View on AI Front Doors & Model Context Protocols
(55:37) Internal Testing: ChartHop dogfoods its own platform with Salesforce, NetSuite, and Gong
(58:38) Favorite Use Case: Performance reviews written with AI accuracy
(01:02:21) Engagement Survey in 3 Hours Instead of 50
(01:04:46) ChartHop Use Cases: The AI-powered HRBP assistant
(01:07:09) Treating AI like your own HRBP: Macro-level strategy
(01:11:38) GenAI as HR for HR: Scenario planning and internal insights
(01:15:04) Weekly Check-Ins: AI helps prioritize which employees need attention
(01:16:13) Rapid Fire: Pilar’s one big takeaway—just try
(01:18:22) Superpower Nickname: The Force or The Inspirer
(01:20:12) Strategy to Steal: Zapier’s AI-first approach
(01:21:54) Shoutouts: 5 emerging HR leaders you should know
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
JooBee Yeow joined us on The Modern People Leader to talk about why HR must stop overfunctioning and start diagnosing real business problems—especially when revenue is on the line.
We discussed how HR leaders can step out of their silo, challenge assumptions, influence revenue growth, and flip the HR pyramid to prioritize high-impact, strategic work.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(06:23) JooBee’s Career Journey: From Systems Engineer to Strategic HR Leader
(08:34) What JooBee Learned from Partnering with CTOs over CHROs
(11:48) Stephen’s Experience Managing Engineers as a CEO
(14:07) Preferential Treatment or Strategic Blindspots in Tech-Heavy Teams
(18:08) What JooBee Is Building: Bootcamp, Community, and Mini MBA
(24:31) Why HR Gets Stuck at 50 Employees: Common Traps at Growth Stage
(29:33) Same Problems, New Labels: From Headcount to AI Adoption
(30:33) The Two Questions Every People Leader Must Ask
(32:25) Strategic Planning ≠ Strategic Thinking: Escaping Operational Loops
(34:26) The HR Hierarchy of Needs & Flipping the Pyramid
(44:46) Stop Playing Admin: Behaviors That Keep HR Operational
(47:29) Writing in Anger: The Story Behind JooBee’s “Drive Revenue” Newsletter
(50:57) What to Do When You Won’t Hit Revenue Targets This Quarter
(54:17) Where Is Revenue Leaking? 4 Common Scenarios
(56:09) Don’t Start with “How”—Diagnose First
(59:26) Tactical Advice: How to Be Curious and Find the Right People to Ask
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more
Tiffany Stevenson, former Chief People Officer at WeightWatchers and Patreon, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about this being the CHROs toughest chapter yet, how AI is reshaping HR, and what HR brings to the boardroom.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(09:35) Tiffany’s career story: From Mirage Resorts to Sephora, Box, Patreon, WW
(14:34) First career break & adjusting to downtime
(16:59) Learning phase: Board readiness program & executive compensation course
(19:01) Why being a CHRO is harder now than during the pandemic
(23:49) Reframing today’s challenges as opportunities
(25:11) Stephen’s thoughts on AI transformation as a once-in-a-generation shift
(28:51) Finding focus amid economic, policy, and AI noise
(31:36) Tiffany’s current purpose: Leading people through transformations
(33:19) Defining individual purpose & aligning with business transformation
(35:21) Why she chose to invest in human-centered board skills
(37:48) What board service training looks like
(39:34) Realizing CHROs often undersell their impact to boards
(42:46) How to position yourself for board service
(46:20) Typical board makeup & where CHRO expertise fits
(49:21) Misconceptions about board work & time commitment
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Priscila Bala, CEO of LifeLabs Learning, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We explored how AI is transforming learning, the enduring role of middle management, and why the most impactful leadership skills are more human than ever.
----
Resources Mentioned:
🔗 Sign up for LifeLabs Learning’s Culture Club.
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(07:25) Priscila’s Career Journey: From VC to CEO of LifeLabs
(10:57) What LifeLabs Learning Does and Their Training Philosophy
(13:10) Segue to AI: “Artificial Interns” and the Human Advantage
(17:42) The Emotional Edge of In-Person Learning & Why AI Can’t Replicate That
(21:52) Vibe Coding, Demo Days, and the Role of Human Feedback
(24:34) What AI Can’t Replace: Judgment, Context & Culture
(26:31) Why Priscila is Giddy About AI’s Impact on Human Skills
(29:07) DIY Learning Teams: Practical Tips & The Q-Step Tool
(31:30) The Secret Sauce Behind LifeLabs’ Facilitators
(35:05) Priscila’s Personal “Aha” Moments as a Former Client
(37:21) Middle Management: From Crisis to AI-Era Relevance
(43:25) The Real Pain for Managers Today: Overwhelm & Role Clarity
(47:29) Will New Careers Move Away From Management?
(49:56) Reskilling in the Age of AI: How Managers Can Navigate Change
(54:22) Resources Mentioned: Culture Club & Train-the-Trainer Preview
(55:47) Rapid Fire: HR Advice, Superpowers, and Dream Guest
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn
😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn
----
Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.
Jenny Molyneaux, VP of People at Vercel, joined us on The Modern People Leader.
We talked about why AI is replacing HR tech spend before headcount, how Vercel’s people team is building custom AI tools to replace expensive SaaS products, and what HR leaders can do to start building with AI today.
----
Sponsor Links:
🔗 Get your free 30-day Synthesia account.
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(07:36) Jenny’s Career Journey: From Google to Startups & VP of People at Vercel
(16:17) Lessons Learned as a People Team of One
(21:37) What Vercel Does Explained Simply
(28:15) How AI Will Cut Spend Before Headcount in HR
(33:13) Cost Savings from Building Internal AI Tools Instead of Buying SaaS
(37:22) Creating a Company Culture of AI Adoption
(40:17) The Future of B2B Tech: Customization, Forking, and AI Marketplaces
(44:23) Customizing Engagement Surveys for Better Insights
(49:44) Jenny’s “Manager Stack” Vision for AI-Driven Performance Management
(53:40) How to Start Building Internal Tools with AI
(56:50) Advice for HR Leaders: Just Start Building
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
Geanne Weaver-Hepler (Director of EX, Charlie Health), Allison Vendt (VP, People Ops & Head of EX at Dropbox), Nick Freeman (Co-CEO, Marco), and Brian Elliott (CEO, Work Forward) joined us to talk about what’s broken with employee connection—and how to fix it.
We explored practical frameworks for offsites, hybrid team building, and creating meaningful connection moments across distributed workforces.
----
Sponsor Links:
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(06:00) Why we stopped talking about connection—and why that’s a mistake
(08:00) Gallup data: engagement is falling, especially for managers
(10:00) Geanne on building connection at scale at Charlie Health
(13:00) From Airbnb bonding to 400-person team offsites
(14:00) Dropbox’s shift from office-first to virtual-first with intentional team gatherings
(16:00) The importance of milestone-based anchor weeks
(17:00) Nick: What makes an offsite successful? Frequency, location, and shared space
(19:00) Using AI to plan team retreats faster and smarter
(20:00) Lessons learned: The pendulum swings of remote, RTO, and hybrid
(22:00) Brian: Airbnb’s team cadence model and the importance of rhythm
(25:00) Dropbox’s “gathering matrix” and designing for outcomes
(27:30) Virtual connection challenges & async collaboration tips
(30:00) Why structured rituals help sustain remote trust
(32:00) Peer learning over presentations: How Charlie Health restructured their offsites
(33:30) Role-playing, competition, and fun as part of sales team development
(36:00) Common offsite pitfalls: over-indexing on logistics, under-indexing on experience
(37:00) How to save 20–30% on offsites by avoiding weekends & bundling bookings
(39:00) Q&A: What to say to executives who don’t see the value in connection
(41:00) Q&A: How Dropbox uses Slack, swag, and planning to drive pre-event excitement
(43:00) Q&A: Aligning in-office vs. remote culture differences
(45:00) Q&A: Measuring success with post-event surveys and engagement impact
(48:00) Q&A: Designing experiences for introverts and overstimulated employees
(50:00) Playbooks: Charlie Health’s tiered gathering strategy & Founders Trip
(51:00) Dropbox’s Offsite-in-a-Box and Virtual First Toolkit
(53:00) Why group travel is the fastest-growing segment of corporate spend
(54:00) Tips for booking better hotels, avoiding weekend rates, and maximizing ROI
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
Jessica Zwaan, COO at Whereby, joined us again on The Modern People Leader for a deep dive into Employee Lifetime Value (ELTV).
We explored how HR leaders can adapt marketing-style metrics like LTV to CAC for talent, the different ways to calculate it, and how the process itself can reshape how People teams think about value, cost, and impact.
----
Sponsor Links:
🔗 Get your free 30-day Synthesia account.
MPL Links:
🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live New York.
----
(05:45) Wrapping up Jessica’s second book & reflections on avoiding hustle culture
(06:31) How to balance multiple big projects without burning out
(07:42) Personal habits that help prevent hustle culture
(09:16) Stephen on using “extra time” with intention
(11:29) Mary Oliver’s “Don’t Hesitate” poem and finding joy in work
(13:02) Daniel on keeping play in work despite business growth pressures
(14:05) Segue to main topic: Employee Lifetime Value (ELTV)
(15:26) Why ELTV sparks debate and common misconceptions
(16:25) Treating ELTV conversations like an AMA to address objections
(17:05) Behind-the-scenes of Stephen’s LinkedIn post that started the conversation
(18:21) Image generation with Midjourney & content process for MPL Build
(21:42) Different ways to calculate ELTV depending on company context
(24:23) Why People teams resist new metrics compared to Marketing teams
(27:56) The value of the calculation process itself for HR teams
(29:13) Why ELTV is calculated on an aggregate, not individual, basis
(31:55) The halo effect of great employees & intangible impacts on value
(32:29) Breaking ELTV down by department, team, or cohorts
(36:27) Core cost factors in ELTV: recruiting, onboarding, L&D, benefits, comp
(39:12) Why knowing cost per employee matters beyond ELTV
(40:50) Tracking ELTV with different financial baselines (revenue vs. EBITDA)
(43:32) The “gold standard” three-to-one LTV-to-CAC ratio and when to adjust it
(44:58) Similar or alternative metrics for different business models
(46:05) Why each company’s key metrics should look different
(47:15) Recognizing others who pioneered ELTV concepts
(48:22) Final advice: ELTV is a compass, not a map
----
📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps
💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn
