What is the future of human work, in the coming age of Artificial intelligence?
Over the past two years, we've spoken with innovators around the world whose work has impacted medicine, engineering, education, the law and more. In each case we've talked about the future of work in their particular profession, and asked: what's uniquely human, that AI will never replace?
In this special compilation episode you’ll hear extracts from these interviews, which describe the seismic change and disruption that is now upon us, and their vision for our future collaboration with machines.
This episode explores how AI is reshaping—not replacing—human work. It reframes the future of work as a shift from tasks to craft, from automation to augmentation. It emphasizes human strengths—contextual judgment, relational intelligence, neurodivergent insight—and highlights how AI amplifies rather than substitutes these capabilities.
Practical ideas like “task archaeology” and agile experimentation are offered for both individuals and organizations. Ultimately, it argues that empathy, not efficiency, is the most resilient human edge — and that co-evolution with AI depends on how we design, lead, and connect.
(00:00) Introduction
(01:15) PART 1: The Great Disruption
(06:14) PART 2: The Augmented Human
(08:33) PART 3: How to Redesign Work
(12:35) PART 4: The Human Edge
(19:09) Conclusion
You’re listening to an AI generated deep dive into The Innovator’s Journey podcast.
The two characters you’ll hear playing fast and loose with our podcast guests were generated by Google’s experimental research assistant called Notebook LM. See what you think.
If you’d like to hear to the real humans and the full stories, visit tijourney.com, or search for The Innovator’s Journey wherever you get your podcasts.
Featuring:
(00:23) Abiel Ma, Environmental entrepreneur
(01:49) Admir Masic, Materials scientist
(03:05) Anup Surendranath, Law professor
(04:44) Beth Rudden, Cognitive scientist
(06:14) Bill Drayton, Social entrepreneur
(07:08) John Ellis, Eye surgeon
(08:19) Koen Timmers, Education technologist
(09:50) Lyssa Adkins, Agility and leadership coach
(12:40) Maureen Dunne, Neurodiversity expert
(14:17) Ross Smith, Engineering manager
(15:43) Shaun Fitzgerald, Climate engineer
(17:31) Ted Zoli, Bridge designer
www.tijourney.com
Bill Drayton is one of the world's greatest innovators for the public good. His life has, directly or indirectly, touched millions of people around the world.
Drayton traces his values and motivation to his family's roots in the Puritans and Quakers of New England, the rebel confidence especially of women including his mother, and the influence of some of the C20th Century's most significant figures. These range from presidents and business leaders to civil rights pioneers and Gandhian philosophers.
This is his story, and an introduction to the ideas he and his colleagues at Ashoka - the organisation he founded in 1980 - have been building for many years. They are ideas for how to change the world for the better through social entrepreneurship, conscious empathy, and the ability for everyone to be a change-maker.
(00:00) Introduction - How to change the world
(03:20) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(06:45) Elementary school or enterprise?
(08:19) Growing up in New York
(09:55) Travelling to India
(11:10) Gandhian philosophy and the civil rights movement
(13:29) Harvard, Oxford and Yale
(14:56) McKinsey and the importance of 'ethical fiber'
(16:41) Working at The White House and then Environmental Protection Agency
(18:12) Does brilliance come from talent or motivation?
(20:58) Creative artefact
(24:11) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(24:42) About Ashoka
(27:02) Entrepreneurial Jiu Jitsu
(29:38) Catch them early : young people as changemakers
(30:55) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(32:20) Concluding advice
BILL DRAYTON is Founder and current CEO of Ashoka www.ashoka.org
PEOPLE MENTIONED in this episode include key figures in the Gandhian movement in India, and in the political and business world in the United States.
Vinoba Bhave (1895-1982), considered the spiritual heir of Mahatma Gandhi
Jaiprakash (JP) Narayan (1902-1979), Indian independence activist
Bayard Rustin (1912-1987), Civil rights activist
Marvin Bower (1903-2003), "father of modern management consulting" (led McKinsey 1950-1967)
Jimmy Carter, US president 1977-1981
Hillary Rodham Clinton, US Secretary of State 2009-2013 and former first lady
USEFUL LINKS:
Ashoka: www.ashoka.org/en-us/about-ashoka
Inside Philanthropy (recent written interview): https://www.ashoka.org/media/70222/download
The Jujitsu of 'Collaborative Entrepreneurship': www.changemakercommunities.org/thought-pieces-full/2019/1/14/growing-up-the-new-paradigm-amp-the-jujitsu-of-introducing-the-new-mindset
Young Changemakers in Brazil: https://www.ashoka.org/en-us/story/ashoka-welcomes-21-new-young-changemakers-brazil
What does it take to build a global network of millions of people taking action around a cause you care about? The story of Koen Timmers reveals some of the practical ways.
In this case the cause is climate change, the network is teachers and students, and the innovation includes a clever app for building community and measuring impact.
Koen tells how he gradually evolved this work from his humble beginnings in a family of teachers and a curiosity about technology, to a point where his work has been recognised in both the worlds of education (he was a top-ten finalist for the Global Teacher Prize) and climate action (supported by David Attenborough and others).
Today with Jennifer Williams and the team at Take Action Global, Koen Timmers is continuing to build this movement towards even greater scale and impact.
His story will encourage anyone who aspires to achieve great things and who is willing to muster the patience to invest and evolve over years or even decades.
(00:00) Introduction to Koen Timmers
(01:55) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(11:21) Creative artefact
(12:35) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(30:50) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(27:07) What's uniquely human?
(33:23) Concluding advice
USEFUL LINKS:
Koen Timmers www.timmers.me
Profile when elected as an Ashoka Fellow: www.ashoka.org/en-be/fellow/koen-timmers
Book - Game Changer: https://a.co/d/egl3ilo
Taking Action Global: www.takeactionglobal.org
Climate Action Project (from TAG): www.climateactionproject.org
EarthProject app for iOS and Android: www.earthproject.org
Climate scientist Shaun Fitzgerald OBE is director of the Centre for Climate Repair at the University of Cambridge (UK), and a former director of the Royal Institution.
As an innovator, Dr Fitzgerald founded and led a company 'Breathing Buildings Ltd', pioneering new ways to ventilate buildings that can halve energy bills.
More recently, responding to worsening climate forecasts and the fear of tipping points, his work has focused on 'climate repair' which includes trials of technologies to brighten clouds, obstruct warm sea currents and even refreeze the arctic.
(00:00) Introduction to Shaun Fitzgerald
(02:48) THE PAST - My life and career journey
(14:57) 'Reduce' - The role of buildings in reducing energy use
(21:49) What have you learned about innovation itself?
(24:49) Creative artefact
(26:15) THE PRESENT - Latest innovations in climate repair: 'Remove' and 'Refreeze'
(35:56) THE FUTURE - Future of work
(37:26) What's uniquely human?
(38:00) Concluding advice
Cover image credit: Katerina Pavlyuchkova on Unsplash.
USEFUL LINKS:
Cambridge centre for climate repair: https://www.climaterepair.cam.ac.uk/refreeze
Refreezing the Arctic (article): https://magazine.alumni.cam.ac.uk/refreezing-the-arctic-working-with-nature-to-buy-us-more-time/
Breathing Buildings (natural and hybrid ventilation systems): https://www.breathingbuildings.com/knowledge/natural-ventilation/
Cambridge Zero (the University's response to the climate crisis): https://www.zero.cam.ac.uk/our-mission
This episode follows the remarkable journey of Admir Masic, a refugee turned influential chemist and materials scientist at MIT.
You'll discover how he and his colleagues are taking an unusual unique approach to sustainability that is transforming one of the construction industry's most notorious materials - concrete - into one that could revolutionise renewable energy storage around the world.
From ancient Rome to modern laboratories, Masic's story is not just about scientific breakthroughs but also about the power of education, resilience, and innovation in facing global challenges.
Tune in for an inspiring tale of how personal adversity doesn't have to be a barrier to talent, and how a passion for learning has contributed to groundbreaking solutions for our planet's future.
(00:00) Introduction to Admir Masic
(03:20) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(17:54) MIT React - programme for talented refugees
(21:12) Creative artefact
(22:23) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(32:02) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(34:19) Concluding advice and what's special about humans in a world of AI
MIT Refugee Action Hub (ReACT) and the Emerging Talent Programme: https://react.mit.edu/
DMAT company innovations including self-healing concrete: https://dmat.co/it/self-healing/
News - Storing electricity in concrete: https://news.mit.edu/2023/mit-engineers-create-supercapacitor-ancient-materials-0731
The Masic Lab at MIT - bio-inspired design: https://www.masicgroup.mit.edu/
Concrete Sustainability Hub (CS-Hub) at MIT: https://cshub.mit.edu/
MIT Dept of Civil and Environmental Engineering: https://cee.mit.edu/
Cognitive scientist Maureen Dunne explains how the emergence of the term 'neurodiversity' has led to a postitive, strengths based approach that can give organisations a competitive edge. She describes how a move away from a purely medical model of conditions like autism and ADHD widens the focus beyond disability, and how the idea of 'universal design' enables everyone to thrive in schools and workplaces.
Oxford Rhodes scholar Maureen Dunne tells her personal story, from early challenges and tragedies to the world's top academic institutions, and how this led her to the cause of neurodiversity. She describes her work supporting start-ups and established companies to innovate at scale, including her work with the Lego Foundation. The podcast concludes with a discussion of AI and the future of work, in which Dunne claims that neurodivergent people have strengths that are unlikely to be replicated by machines any time soon. The implication is that forward-thinking organisations should move faster to recruit and integrate people with diverse minds.
(00:00) Introduction to Maureen Dunne
(01:51) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(10:34) What is neurodiversity?
(16:53) Creative artefact
(18:34) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(26:02) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(27:07) What's uniquely human?
(30:12) Concluding advice
Book: The Neurodiversity Edge https://www.theneurodiversityedge.org
Example companies supported by the Lego Foundation:
socialciphergame.com
kahoot.com
About universal design: https://universaldesign.ie/what-is-universal-design/
About the Rhodes scholarship to Oxford: https://www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/scholarships/the-rhodes-scholarship/
Abiel Ma is CEO of Vuala, a start-up pioneering decentralised food waste reprocessing.
He and his company may be relatively young, but like all good innovations they stand on the shoulders of others.
What makes this innovation story unusual is that the shoulders in question are those of his father who carried out decades of research and development in environmental science and mechanical engineering.
This father-and-son team now bring their combined skills to bear on a problem that has global significance. Worldwide more than 30% of food is wasted and - aside from the obvious injustice - it is a huge source of greenhouse gas emissions. Capturing and reprocessing food waste is therefore a vital part of the solution to the climate crisis.
This episode covers Abiel's personal and professional journey from the towers of Hong Kong to an ambitious Cambridge start-up.
We discuss the tensions of working with family across generations, the story of the company and its innovation, and Abiel Ma's personal predictions for the future of work.
(00:00) Introduction to Abiel Ma
(01:44) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(08:57) My father - Anthony Ma
(14:22) Creative artefact
(15:39) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(25:34) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(27:51) What's special about humans?
(29:06) Concluding advice
Links and credits
Company website - www.vuala.co.uk
AI tools he mentioned included
Recent awards and recognition:
Anup Surendranath is professor of law at National Law University in Delhi.
He is also Executive Director of Project 39a, an initiative whose sustained representation of prisoners sentenced to death in the Supreme Court of India has led to significant changes and improvements in the law.
What motivates someone to take up the cause of death row prisoners? His story gives us some insight into his motivation and his journey, propelled by his hard-working mother and by the generosity of others, from hardship in the suburbs of Bangalore to the spires of Oxford.
Professor Anup Surendranath talks about his decision to return to India to a life driven by the desire to close the ‘justice gap’ that he describes vividly in this episode of The Innovator’s Journey. Technology may have a role to play in the future, he explains, but today the story is rooted in the people, professions and institutions that have caught the vision for working together. In doing so, they are showing a way to increase access to justice for the people of India and for all of us.
(00:00) Introduction to Anup Surendranath
(02:13) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(21:41) Creative artefact
(24:52) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(30:42) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(31:59) What's the role of technology?
(33:35) Concluding advice
The podcast (mentioned) with Californian law professor Bryan Stevenson is here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/bryan-stevenson-the-power-of-mercy-and-forgiveness/id1264843400?i=1000413114819 (34:48: “I believe we’re more than the worst thing we’ve ever done. I believe that grace is power. I believe that love is justice. And I believe we have to judge how we’re doing by how we treat the poor, the incarcerated and the condemned.”)
As a software engineer with seven patents, Ross Smith is a proven innovator. He is well equipped to help Microsoft apply AI creatively and responsibly today, which is the primary focus of the innovation featured in this episode.
However, it is as a manager of software teams that I find Ross's innovative spirit most intriguing. Where did he get his ideas on management? What leads him to continually innovate? His career story reveals some unexpected influences, and his position today enables him to give us all some practical tips for the collaboration between man and machine in the future world of work.
(00:00) Introduction to Ross Smith
(01:53) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(19:50) Creative artefact
(21:43) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(27:25) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(30:04) What's special about humans?
(33:21) Concluding advice
The innovation (more technical): https://www.microsoft.com/insidetrack/blog/unlock-our-six-tips-for-managing-your-support-content-with-ai-and-chatgpt/
Do you ever get frustrated at work because everything keeps changing? Your boss is being demanding. Your client changes their mind (again). Interest rates go up. There's a war on the other side of the planet. Someone sneezed and you caught it. Stuff happens.
Lyssa Adkins got frustrated being a project manager in a big organisation with ever more complicated projects. So frustrated she threw in the towel. It was a crisis moment. And then, almost accidentally, she discovered a new way to get things done.
The podcast charts her course from stressed-out manager to happy and successful author and an 'agility and leadership coach'. Today Lyssa works with leaders and teams that are making their own journey to agile ways of working. It's an approach that she believes can also help us tackle some of the world's most intractable problems.
(00:00) Introduction to Lyssa Adkins
(03:23) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(10:54) Discovering agile
(18:24) Creative artefact
(21:32) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(30:10) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
(32:36) What's the future role of technology?
(33:48) What's special about humans?
(35:32) Concluding advice
Links and credits
Cover image: based on the timeline graphic in Lyssa's book Coaching Agile Teams, published by Pearson.
Agile fundamentals: https://lyssaadkins.com/blog-1/category/videos/agile-fundamentals/
Book: Coaching Agile Teams https://lyssaadkins.com/product/coaching-agile-teams-paperback/
What is agile coaching? https://www.icagile.com/what-is-agile-coaching
Health systems around the world are under strain. In the UK, post-pandemic backlogs in the NHS are at an unprecedented level, particularly for elective (non-emergency) procedures.
Nowhere is innovation more needed - or more challenging, given the scale and complexity of the NHS. So here's a welcome good news story: cataract surgery in Scotland is receiving a boost of innovation pioneered in Dundee.
Opthalmologist Dr John Ellis and his team have been using six-sigma techniques to achieve dramatic gains in productivity. And unlike so many other innovations dreamed up in Dundee, this one is not driven by technology. It is an essentially human story of teamwork and team spirit.
If you’re interested in high-performing teams, the future of healthcare professions, or the ups and downs of life as an innovator then I encourage you to listen to this episode. And if you’re inspired by Dr Ellis and his team, do share it with your colleagues and friends.
(00:00) Introduction
(02:58) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(14:30) Creative Artefact
(16:45) THE PRESENT - My work and innovation
(27:53) THE FUTURE - Future of work
BONUS MATERIAL - How to tackle the waiting list challenge: https://youtu.be/TD-biK2NS1U
RELATED - YouTube documentary by Sirjhun Patel: A day in high volume eye surgery: https://youtu.be/r9GEk5dMKuM
This includes practical details including some of the 7 innovations put forward by the team, to achieve high volume:
1. Timed patient batches
2. 'Jump seats'
3. Intraoperative dilation
4. Patient clothing
5. Nurses mark eye
6. Topical anaesthetic
7. 60 minute 'time bank' training method
Theodore P. Zoli, III is one of the bridge engineering and design industry's most recognised American figures, and the first structural engineer to receive the prestigious MacArthur Foundation 'genius' Award. In this podcast interview he talks about his life and career story and how this led him to focus on new areas for innovation in bridges. Some careers seem to have a sense of destiny, or even inevitability, and this is one of those intriguing stories.
Zoli is a man on a mission, building bridges with a strong sense of "taking public dollars for public good", and his choice of creative artefact (a feature of these podcasts) reveals a deeply-held philosophy of engineering and design, rooted in age-old ideas. In his view, new technology has failed to deliver some of its expected benefits and an overly-scientific mindset has limited our ability to see where innovation is really needed. Ted Zoli talks about the uniquely human skills needed for the bridges of the future.
(00:00) Introduction to Ted Zoli
(03:21) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(17:09) Creative Artefact
(20:31) THE PRESENT - My work and innovation
(31:00) THE FUTURE - future of work
Cover image: poem 'Deer Park' by Tang dynasty poet Wang Wei (701-761)
To view the Lake Champlain bridge: https://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2013/04/24/10667635/TR_CrownPointBridge_2011_110736_b.jpg
Will your job be taken over by an artificial intelligence? That seems more likely with the advent of generative chatbots like ChatGPT.
My guest Beth Rudden is a cognitive scientist and a former chief data officer at IBM. As founder of Bast.ai she is working at the cutting edge of language and AI towards a safer, better world in which tools like ChatGPT can be a force for good.
Beth has practical advice for anyone wondering how best to respond to this new technology, and her life journey reveals how the threads of experience can weave together to make an exciting career.
(00:00) Introduction to Beth Rudden
(03:56) THE PAST - My Life and Career Journey
(19:18) Creative Artefact
(20:42) THE PRESENT - My Work and Innovation
(27:48) THE FUTURE - Future of Work
Image credit: Midjourney.com
A podcast about the lives and careers of creative people, technology, and the future of work.
With Jonathan Winter.
