Today I am speaking with Serge Valentin. Serge is a whisky expert and the founder of a whiskyfun.com - which is widely regarded as the go-to review repository for whisky tasting notes and scores on the internet. Over the past 23 years Serge has tasted over 20,000 bottles ranging from entry level staples to some of the rarest in the world. His scoring system has become the de facto benchmark by which many measure the quality of a dram, and Serge has become a cult hero amongst the world’s whisky geeks.

On the episode we discuss tasting whisky - personal preferences over objective goodness, the hubris of blind tasting, whether whisky is too serious, the role of independent bottlers, how whisky changes in the bottle, recent exceptional whiskies, weird whisky, the founding of whiskyfun.com, the importance of education, changing tastes, whisky myths, and much more.

In today’s episode, I’m joined by one of the true mavericks of American distilling — Lance Winters of St. George Spirits. This is a journey that begins in the orchard, with pears, quinces and raspberries destined for eau de vie, and stretches all the way to absinthe, American gin, rum and even highballs built on umeshu and Baller whisky.

We trace the roots of St. George back to Jörg Rupf and the early days of California craft distilling in the 1980s, and follow Lance’s arrival and the evolution of a house defined not by category, but by philosophy. Along the way we dive into the uncompromising art of eau de vie — fruit selection, fermentation, and the stills that shape every spirit they make — and ask how that sensibility influences whisky, rum and beyond.

From jalapeño vodka to acorn spirits, from dill lactones in oak to the question of consistency versus expression, this conversation is about more than products. It’s about place, curiosity, and a willingness to let flavour lead. We explore American gin through Californian botanicals, the rebirth of absinthe, the origins of Baller, the future of eau de vie, and where all this innovation leaves the legacy of St. George.

This is not a tour through a portfolio — it’s a look inside a creative engine.

To support the show please rate, subscribe and share - thanks!

Charles Denby is the co-founder and CEO of Berkeley Yeast, a company that’s reimagining fermentation through genetics. With a PhD in molecular and cell biology from UC Berkeley, Charles and his team are using genetic science not to replace brewing tradition, but to enhance it — designing new yeast strains that can transform how beer, wine, and even spirits are made.In this conversation, we dive deep into the biology that underpins flavour. We unpack what yeast actually is, why it produces alcohol, and how its metabolism creates the esters and aromatics we love in drinks. Charles explains how fermentation conditions shape flavour, how lager and ale yeasts differ, and what really happens inside the tank at every stage of fermentation.From there, we go microscopic — exploring yeast genetics, DNA modification, and the molecular tools that make it all possible. Charles shares how Berkeley Yeast engineers strains to enhance tropical aromas in hazy IPAs, introduce new layers of bitterness, or even make brewing non-alcoholic and healthier beers more efficient.We also discuss the broader implications of this technology — from applications in wine and spirits to the stigma surrounding GMOs and what “responsible innovation” really means in the drinks world.

This is a fascinating deep dive into the invisible world that drives fermentation — and how science is quietly shaping the future of flavour.If you like this content please consider subscribing.

00:00 Introduction

02:34 Charles’ Background in Science & Origins of Berkeley Yeast
10:29 What is Yeast? Why Does it Produce Alcohol? Yeast Metabolism
16:49 Fermentation Conditions, Ester Metabolism
22:04 Yeast Species: Lager & Ale Yeasts
24:24 Stages of Fermentation
28:34 Nutrients for Fermentation, Amino Acid Synthesis, Diacetyl Production
36:34 Why Is Beer Fizzy? Production of CO2 During Fermentation
37:34 Yeast Genetics, Cell Biology, Evolutionary Biology
42:29 Modifying Yeast DNA, Molecular Scissors, Polymerase Chain Reaction
55:54 The Complex Web of Genetic Modification
1:01:14 Testing Yeast in Berkeley Yeast’s Microbrewery
1:04:04 Comparing Hazy IPA Yeasts, Creating Tropical Aromas
1:09:19 Engineering Yeast for Bitterness
1:12:04 Brewing Non-Alcohol Beer, Vacuum Distillation: Method, Downsides
1:16:54 Brewing Beer for Health
1:22:17 Applications in Wine: Flavour, Low-Alcohol, Cultural Knock on Effect
1:26:14 Residual Sugar in No/Low Alcohol Ferments
1:27:59 Applications in Spirits: Flavour & Efficiency
1:30:49 The Berkeley Yeast Business Model, Lifespan of Yeast Cultures, Competition
1:35:44 Overcoming the Stigma of GMO, Responsible Technology, Defining GMO in Beer

Megs Miller is a bartender, educator, and all-round agave obsessive — whose journey has taken her across multiple continents but most recently to Mexico City, where she runs Salón de Agave, a tasting room dedicated to exploring the depth and diversity of Mexico’s native spirits.In this episode, you can expect to learn about agave species and taxonomy, how different agave species affect the mind and body — Megs and her co-worker Sophie have been conducting a two-year experiment on this — insights into retailing agave spirits in Mexico, the nuances of terroir and regional flavour mapping, and the joy of glass-matured mezcal.We also dive into sotol, pulque, and the evolving conversation around responsibility, sourcing, and politics in agave spirits. From the cheesiness of Inaequidens to the pine forests of Chihuahua, and from women’s progress in the industry to the cultural storytelling behind each bottle — this is a deep and generous look at the Mexican spirit.Megs was so generous, in fact, that we tasted around 25 different distillates — and as someone who’s tasted quite a few in my time, I wasn’t surprised to find that there were many amazing surprises. I wasn’t able to write down or document them all, but if you’re interested in anything in particular, I suggest giving Salón de Agave a follow on Instagram or booking a session with them next time you’re in Mexico City. It’s awesome.https://salondeagave.com/

00:00 Intro

02:25 Meg’s Trip to Durango
06:25 Agave Species and Taxonomy, Tequila
11:25 How Different Agaves Affect Your Body, Agave Spirits Distillation
15:35 Retail of Agave Spirits in Mexico
16:35 Terpenes in Agave Spirits, Health
18:55 Moving to Mexico – Opening Salón de Agave
26:25 Glass-Matured Mezcal, Pechuga, Salt & Lime
37:25 Agave Education, Price & Value
45:05 Mapping Flavour Around Mexico, Terroir
49:55 Tasting Maguey Inaequidens Agave, Cheesiness, Narcos
56:45 Back to Durango, Maguey Lampranillo, Label Design
1:00:35 Tasting Vino del Norte from Pechotierra, Pulque Production, Appreciating Pulque
1:06:40 The Evolving Flavour of Agave Spirits, Appreciating Agave Spirits, Glassware
1:08:15 Sotol, Dasylirion
1:10:32 Texture and Mouthfeel in Agave Spirits, Tuning Your Flavour Perception, Context in Tasting
1:19:25 Mezcal Labelling, DO, Rebellion, World Agave Spirits, Mezcal Politics, Responsible Sourcing
1:28:25 Chihuahua Sotol, Pine Forests, Cultural Terroir
1:31:42 Women in Agave Spirits: Challenges, Progress
1:40:25 Guerrero Cupreata, Inconsistency, Scarcity, Bottle Killing
1:45:15 Distilado de Pulque from Salmiana, Mango Distillate
1:48:45 Identifying Agave by Smell: Inaequidens & Salmiana, San Luis Potosí Agave Cooking
1:51:45 Challenging Preconceptions in Agave Spirits, Smokiness
1:54:25 Oaxaca, Small-Batch Cupreata, Cowhide Fermentation
1:56:35 Tasting Notes, Describing Flavour, Context

Richard Hart is one of the world’s most respected bakers and a celebrated author. He first rose to prominence in the early 2000s while working at the legendary Tartine Bakery, San Francisco. From there, he co-founded Hart Bageri with René Redzepi in Copenhagen, before relocating to Mexico City, where he recently opened his latest venture, Green Rhino. Richard is also the author of the James Beard Award–winning book Richard Hart Bread, and is widely regarded as one of the greatest exponents of sourdough bread on the planet.

In this episode, we dive deep into the craft and science of sourdough: how Richard’s methods and protocols have evolved over the years, the role of different cereals and milling techniques, the importance of water in bread, yeast management, ovens and baking temperatures, and practical tips for baking at home. We also explore bread culture and chew over some wonderfully contentious questions — from whether a pizza qualifies as a sandwich to the eternal mystery of the Jaffa Cake.

Although this is primarily a podcast about spirits, cocktails, and bars, The Curious Bartender is ultimately about curiosity. Bread has always fascinated me, and sitting down with one of the key figures who helped popularise sourdough worldwide was an opportunity I simply couldn’t turn down. It didn’t disappoint.

00:00 Introduction

01:44 Drinks Preferences

02:44 Balancing Eating & Exercise as a Chef & Baker, Working Hours

06:14 Baking Schedule & Flavour Considerations

08:44 Baking at Tartine in San Francisco, Instagram & Fame

12:29 Working with Rene Redzepi, Copenhagen, Hart Bageri, Danish Bread Culture, Family

19:29 Moving to Mexico City, City Life, Gentrification

23:14 Opening Green Rhino, Baking for Life, Incorporating Mexican Food, Chocolate, Corn, R&D, Fucking People Up

30:54 Flour, Milling, Selecting Wheat, Sourdough Process: Temperature & Time, Gluten

39:04 Water for Baking

40:59 Sourdough Starters: Superstition, Protocols, Effects of Altitude in Mexico City

48:29 Pursuing the Perfect Loaf, Defining a Perfect Loaf, Tweaking Parameters, Comparison to Cooking and Cocktails

54:04 Working with Rye, Danish Bread Culture

57:34 Other Grains: Oats, Spelt, Durum, Einkorn

1:00:44 Water Substitutes: Beer, Tea

1:03:04 Making Brioche, Burger Buns

1:05:44 Stoneground flour, Wood fired ovens, Thermo-oil vs Electric Ovens, Oven Dynamics

1:08:58 Baking Bread at Home - Techniques and Tips, Temperature & Steam

1:12:01 Is Bread The Best it’s Ever Been? Fixing Supermarket Bread

1:15:11 Bread Guilty Pleasures

1:15:53 Is a Pizza a Sandwich?

1:18:58 Burger Flipping Masochism

1:20:50 Is a Jaffa Cake a Cake or a Biscuit?

1:21:14 Sandwich Filling & Bread Pairing

Dave Broom is one of the most prominent and influential voices in the world of whisky and over the course of his career he has written some of the most important books on whisky and spirits including The World Atlas of Whisky, Whisky: The Manual, A Sense of Place, and The Way of Whisky — works that have shaped the way both enthusiasts and professionals understand flavour, culture, and the people behind the glass.On the episode we delve into the all important sense of place — from the cultural terroir of Scotland to the artistry and craft of distilling, and how flavour finds its way into the glass. Dave takes us from Japan to New Zealand, from English farms to French stills, as we explore the global spread of malt whisky and why everyone seems to be making it.We also get into his writing: the discipline, the methodology, the architecture of narrative non-fiction, and the influence of mentors like Michael Jackson. Along the way, we talk music, art, storytelling, and the state of drinks journalism today.And we taste some stuff too — French sorghum whisky, Breton malts, German rye, and the genius of Chichibu, and a sneak preview of the whisky from my new project at Rosemaund Farm — each dram opening the door to wider conversations about style, strength, regionality and the shape of whisky itself.And we close with the big themes: whisky’s current bubble, the secondary market, daily drams, and favourite distilleries.

02:37 A Sense of Place - Terroir in Spirits, Scotch Whisky Cultural Terroir
10:02 Artistry & Craft in Whisky Making - Learning from Masters, Adapting Tradition, Economics and Law
15:07 How Do Flavours Find Their Way Into Whisky? The Way of Whisky and Japan
19:42 Whisky In New Zealand - Codrona, Burning Manuka Wood, Waiheke Distillery
22:17 Why is Everyone Making Malt Whisky?
23:59 Writing - Latest Project, Mixing American Whiskey, Untold American Whiskey History, Researching History
34:27 Dave’s Writing Process - Research, Poetry, Methodology - The World Atlas of Whisky: Influence, Practicality
39:48 Writing Narrative non-fiction - Road Trip Books, Telling Stories, Narrative Architecture, The State of Drinks Journalism, Content and distraction, Photography
52:17 The Arts & Spirits - Music, Art, Culture
56:47 Tasting Bows French Sorghum Whisky - The French Whisky Category, Regionality, Eau de Vie
1:02:07 *Dave’s Methodology for Assessing Whisky - Writing Tasting Notes, The Shape of Whisky
1:07:37 The Macbeth Whisky Series - Making Whisky Fun through Communication of Flavour
1:11:07 Tasting Rosemaund Farm 10 Year Old English Whisky
1:17:30 Whisky Bottling Strength - The English Whisky Category
1:20:42 Dave’s Early Career - Writing, Oddbins, Pubs, Becoming a Spirits Writer
1:25:37 The Influence of Michael Jackson - Writing Style, Beer, Writing for Consumers
1:28:57 Dave’s Writing Style - Poetry, Discipline, Trade Knowledge
1:32:42 Tone of Voice in Writing
1:34:07 Tasting Breton Whisky from Distillerie La Mine D'or ‘Galad’, Armorik Distillery, Development of French Whisky Market
1:37:12 *The Bursting of the Whisky Bubble - Overproduction, Lessons from the Past, Pricing, Perception of Whisky
1:48:47 Secondary Whisky Market - Auction House Bubble, Karuizawa, American Whiskey
1:51:42 Opening Rare Bottles, Buying Whisky, Daily Drams, Changing Preferences for Taste
1:57:27 Tasting Hardenberg German Straight Whisky - Leopold Bros.
2:00:09 Chichibu Tasting - The Genius of Ichiro Akuto, Malting, Barley, Mizunara
2:03:56 Quickfire Questions

Dave's site - https://thewhiskymanual.uk

Dave on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davewasabi/

Liquid Antiquarian YouTube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheLiquidAntiquarian

Rosemaund Farm Distillery - http://www.rosemaund.com📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/📚 I've written quite a few books on spirits and cocktails - https://www.thecuriousbartender.com/

This week I’m joined by Nick Strangeway, one of the most influential British bartenders of the modern era. With almost 40 years in and around the London drinks scene, Nick has tended bar at legendary spots like Fred’s Club, The Atlantic Bar & Grill, and Che, designed drinks programmes for Hawksmoor, Hix, and The Groucho Club, and consulted for venues worldwide. He’s also ventured into spirits production — from creating flavoured vodkas with Absolut under the Absolut Craft label, to co-founding Hepple Gin and Second Sip, a low-ABV gin.

Nick’s career is deeply intertwined with the late, great Dick Bradsell. They worked together on and off for over a decade, and much of the first part of our conversation explores Soho’s 1980s and 1990s bar scene — the people, brands, drinks, and wild stories that defined the era.

We go on to cover everything from the art of serving a martini, creativity in bartending, the brilliance of batching, the gentrification of London, Simon Difford and Class magazine, taking inspiration from the kitchen, the beauty of punch, the problem with bars you can’t sit at, fighting customers, and Nick’s latest venture — a new basement bar beneath a jeweller in Burlington Arcade, which opened just last week.

If you’re not yet subscribed, now’s the time. Next week, I’ll be speaking with perhaps the greatest living whisky writer, followed by a two-week trip across Mexico and the USA to record with some true heavyweights of the food and drink world. Don’t miss out — it’s free.

00:00 Introduction

02:42 Frozen Glasses, Martinis, Champagne, Specifications, Vermouth

06:59 Nick’s Entry into Bars - The Allure of Bars, Fred’s Club

11:42 Working with Dick Bradsell - Bramble, Vodka Espresso

15:42 The Changing Nature of London - 1980’s to 2020’s - Drinking Dens in Soho, Gentrification, Community, Class

24:12 Modern Bartending: Influencers, Competence, Creativity, Hospitality, Bar as a Barrier

34:22 Working at Che - The Customer Perspective, Fighting in Bars, Dick Bradsell Vaulting Over the Bar

39:57 Following Dick Bradsell to Atlantic Bar & Grill, Detroit, The Flamingo, Dick Bradsell’s Approach to Hospitality & The Scene

53:19 Creating Cocktails - Modifying Classics, Simon Difford - Class Magazine, Sauce Guides

59:22 American Cocktails vs. UK, Punches

1:04:22 Shifting to Restaurant Bars - Challenges, Chef Approach to Drinks, Batching Cocktails, Theatre, Bars that You Can’t Sit At

1:24:42 The Origins of Hawksmoor - The Benefits of No Uniform, Building a Great Team, Obsession, Eating Pencils, Jonathan Downey & the Smoking Ban

1:43:21 Developing spirits for Absolut

1:48:57 The Birth of Hepple Gin - Valentine Warner, Walter Riddel, Northumbria, Wild Juniper, Technology - Super Critical CO2 Extraction

2:00:37 Second Sip Low ABV Gin - Development, Leo Robitschek, Overcoming Technical Challenges - Texture, Louche

2:11:02 No Regrets Bar - Designing a New Bar Concept for Mayfair, Curating Clientele

2:18:12 Other Projects - Richard Corrigan, Valentine Warner & Wild Kitchen 

Episode sponsored by Fever-Tree

Henrietta Lovell is the founder and CEO of The Rare Tea company, a tea educator and author of the book Infused: Adventures in Tea. Over a career of more than 20 years Henrietta has travelled around the foothills of the Himalayas, across China, Japan, India, and Malawi, sourcing some of the best teas in the world and learning from the communities that grow them. She has worked with world class chefs and bartenders, including supplying tea at some of the bars I have owned over the years. In fact we first met around 15 years ago when I opened the Worship Street Whistling Shop in London.This episode is a tea masterclass that covers the basics of growing, processing, brewing and tasting tea, but also explores, history, economics, sustainability, agricuture, health, poverty, and some of the most expensive teas on the planet. Expect to learn where most of the world’s tea is grown - clue it isn’t china or India, why it is the Emperors Golden Eyebrows costs in excess of £250 for a 30g bag, why you shouldn’t ever brew good tea for three minutes, best practices for making tea infusions in spirits and for the bar, and much more.To support this podcast please like and subscribe.

🙏 This episode is sponsored by Fever-Tree📷 Follow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tristanstephenson/

00:00 Introduction

01:41 Cold Brewed Tea - Avoiding oxidation, Osmosis, Method

06:21 The Remarkable way that high end Jasmine Tea is Made, tasting, uses of Jasmine tea Noma
10:56 Tea as an Alternative to Wine - tasting Himalayan First Spring blended with Japanese Sencha
13:24 Tea Varietals, Colonial History, Early Tea Drinks in India, Blending Tea & Comparisons to whisky
19:11 Tea Types - White, Green, Oolong, Black, Pu’erh - Controlling Oxidation, Drying, Terroir and Agriculture, Fermentation
25:24 Where Tea Grows - Environment
26:41 East Africa, The Problem with Commodity Tea, Brokers, Responsible Tea Drinking, Direct Trade
32:46 finding the Best Teas - Flavour, Independent, Organic Practices (vs. Organic Certification), Polyculture Framing, Impact of other Flora on Tea
38:27 The Lifespan of a Tea Plant, Harvesting (Machine vs. Hand), Risk of Tech on Tea Communities
45:51 Perception of Tea - Taste Testing, The Problem with Tea Bags, Practicality of Brewing Tea vs. Coffee
54:16 Fruit Teas - Flavour Essences, Fruit Extracts
01:00:46 Trading Up on Tea - What to Look For, Margins on Tea
1:05:44 Tasting Coffee Leaf Tea
1:08:31 Pu’erh Tea - Pairing for Food, Flavour, Ageing Tea, Tea Cakes, Tea Collectors, Tong Mu Village, Emperor’s Golden Eyebrow Tea
1:17:21 Brewing Techniques - Equipment, Temperature, Brew Ratio, Time
1:28:14 Carbonating Tea, Salting tea, Pairing with Cheese
1:30:18 Matcha - Colour, Origins, Production (traditional vs modern), Commodity Matcha Syrups & Matcha Trend, Matcha and Coconut Water
1:40:23 Caffeine in Tea - Inconsistency, vs. Coffee, Decaf Tea
1:43:53 Alcohol based Tea Extractions - Protocols, Flavour, demo with Gin Infusion, Tea Cocktails
1:52:11 Closing Words - Tea in the Present Day, Yerba Maté

Dale is a bartender, author, brand owner, and the co-founder of the Museum of the American cocktail. In the late 90’s working at NYC’s Rainbow Rooms Dale was probably the most famous bartender on the planet and has remained one of the best loved bartenders to this day. 

I sat down with Dale in Manhattan a few weeks ago, looking out over the Empire State Building as the sun went down. The interview was scheduled during a very tight window of opportunity between Dale arriving back from Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans and me catching a flight back to London. We had just 90 minutes, which wasn’t nearly enough time for a man with some many stories and such a sharp memory.

In fact chronologically we barely got to 1990 before I had to turn off the microphones and hot foot it to catch my flight. For that reason, I am calling this interview Part one and hope to sit down with Dale to record the second part next year - and who knows, maybe we will need a third part.

What you are about to hear is less a story of Dale’s career and more a tour of New York and Los Angeles hospitality from the late 1950’s through to the 80’s, exploring its jazz clubs, neighbourhood bars, and some of the greatest restaurants and hotels of the 20th century. Dale recounts the musicians that provided the soundtrack, the chefs that designed the cuisine, and the architects that imagined the buildings, all in vivid detail.

Perhaps the most significant of these people to Dale, was Joe Baum - one of the United States most significant restauranteurs who introduced the concept of themed restaurant tot he world with no expense spared. Working with acclaimed chefs like Julia Child and James Beard, he opened hundreds of restaurants across America, most notably The Four Seasons Restaurant, Windows of the World at the top of the world trade centre, and the Rainbow Room at the Rockefeller Centre. You’ll hear about other venues during the course of our conversation too.

We also discuss the founding and challenging upbringing of the Museum of the American Cocktail, the incredible aesthetic and culinary vision of Joe Baum, the establishment of modern American cuisine, what it was like working at the Bel Air Hotel in the 1980’s, the establishment of The Rainbow Room, and much much more.

There are perhaps 100 different names and venues mentioned in this episode and it can get quite confusing. If you’re of the mind to do so I recommend watching the episode on YouTube when you get a chance, as I have provided archive images and captions to help paint the picture.

Episode sponsored by Fever-Tree Mixers

https://degroffspirits.com

00:00 Introduction

03:11 Tales of the Cocktail

06:41 Building the Museum of the American Cocktail - Jared Brown & The Rainbow Room, Ted Haigh, History of the Cocktail, Building the Collection, Locations

20:09 Dale’s Early Life - Acting, Moving to Manhattan, Packing Bibles*, Restaurant Associates, Howard Johnson’s, Jazz Clubs*, McGlade’s Bar

38:11 Working with Joe Baum, Restaurant Associates, Charlie O’s, Newarker, Four Seasons at the Seagrams Building, Modern American Cuisine, James Beard, La Fonda del Sol

53:59 The Rainbow Room: Early History, Design

55:11 Bel Air Hotel in Los Angeles - Cocktails, 7/11 Mix, Martini Rituals*

1:06:32 Aurora Restaurant, Reviving Classic Cocktails, Fresh Juices, Jerry Thomas

1:08:11 Building the Rainbow Room - Researching Classics, Recruiting Teams

1:18:01 Becoming Famous, Impact on cocktail culture around NYC, Consulting with Keith McNally - Balthazar, Pravda, Lucky Strike

Today I am speaking with Alexandre Gabriel. Alexandre is the founder of Maison Ferrand, Citadelle Gin, and Plantation—now Planetary—Rum. 

Expect to learn how a Burgundian farm boy turned his hand to bartending in New York and then went on to innovate across the categories of cognac, gin and rum. We take a deep dive into the production of Cognac - terroir, grape varieties, distillation, maturation, and discuss the changing market of cognac in France and abroad.

From there we turn to gin, covering the birth of Citadelle in 1996 and the challenges of establishing the world’s first modern craft gin distillery. 

The conversation then shifts to rum—Alexandre’s early encounters, the founding of Plantation, double maturation, Jamaican and Barbadian styles, muck, dunder, and the acquisition of West Indies Rum Distillery. We taste our way through the Rockley still, and high-ester ferments, and discuss geographical indications, tradition and community. 

We also discuss the decision to change the Plantation brand name to Planetary, and much more.

00:00 Introduction & Clarification on Jamaican Rum GI

05:16 Origin Stories - Childhood, Farming, Marc de Bourgogne, Growing What You Sell, Wine vs. Brandy, Bartending in NYC
16:06 Cognac - Acquiring Ferrand, The Cognac Market
18:16 The Cognac Regions, Cognac Houses, Geology & Flavour, Terroir, Yeast
30:56 Grape Varietes in Cognac - Ugni Blanc & Colombard - Acidity, Stability, Producing Seasons
33:36 Emphasis of Distillation over Fermentation
37:18 Maturation in Cognac - Coopers, Elevage, Limousin Oak, Gastronomic Approach, Trancais, Fill Strength
51:41 Tasting Ferrand 1840 - Finding old Cognac, Perception of Flavour based on Dilution, Historical Recipes, David Wondrich & Mint Juleps, Ancient Still Designs, The Evolution of Tradition
1:04:09 Dosage in Cognac - Methods, Purpose, History - Physiology of sweetness and salt perception, sugar quality
1:11:59 Changing Perceptions of Cognac - Cognac highballs, Misconceptions and Understanding
1:17:52 Creating Citadelle Gin - Gin Market in 1996, First Craft Gin Distillery of Modern Era, Growing Juniper, Legislation, Plymouth Gin, Ferran Adrià
1:32:24 Rum: Alexandre’s Early Experiences with Rum
1:34:16 Thierry Gardère and Barbancourt, buying barrels, the origins of Plantation, Navy Rum & Mr Fogg
1:42:56 Establishing the Plantation Brand - Nicolas Wine Shop Distribution, Naming the brand Plantation, First products, West Indies Rum Distillery team, Amaretto Cask Rum
1:47:04 Double Maturation in Rum - Tropical and Continental - History, Benefits
1:52:06 Jamaican Rum GI - Regulation Regarding Overseas Ageing, Myers, Captain Morgan - comparison to Single Malt Scotch
2:00:18 Clarendon & Long Pond Distilleries - Southern vs. Northern Distilleries Styles in Jamaica - Historical reasons for styles, Esters, Export
2:06:16 Muck, Dunder, Cane Vinegar & Bacteria in Rum Fermentation
2:09:12 Acquisition of West Indies Rum Distillery (WIRD) in Barbados - George Stade (Founder), Origins of NRJ
2:19:41 Stade’s Rum - Rockley Still: World’s Oldest Rum Still, Restoration, First Distillation
2:26:22 What is Barbados Rum? Varieties of Stills, History, Using Seawater in Rum Production
2:30:58 Tasting Hogo Monster - 2000ppm Esters
2:36:05 Stiggin’s Pineapple Rum, Pushing the Limits
2:38:16 Barbados Community, Growing Cane on Barbados, Curacao
2:41:49 Next Steps: Cognac grapes, Renovating more stills, Navy Rum R&D, Paraguay
2:46:41 Changing from Plantation to Planetary - Language, History, Consultation

Episode Sponsored by Fever-Tree

Sandor Katz is ften called a “fermentation revivalist,” Sandor has spent decades exploring how microbes shape our food, our drinks, our culture, and even our sense of place. He has written a number of book son the subject including Wild Fermentation, The Art of Fermentation, Fermentation as Metaphor, and Fermentation Journeys — the latter chronicling his travels to meet fermentation practitioners across the globe. His bestselling The Art of Fermentation won a James Beard Award and has become the definitive modern guide to the craft. In this conversation, we journey from the very origins of fermentation and the metabolism of alcohol to the staggering variety of fermented foods and drinks in our diets — and why they’re so much more than just flavour. We dismantle common misconceptions around health, freshness, and speed, and dive deep into Sandor’s own path into this microbial worldAlong the way, we unpack the fascinating interplay of bacteria, yeast, and mould, the difference between wild and cultured ferments, and how fermentation can capture the essence of a place, from mezcal to sourdough. We explore everything from lightly fermented tonic beverages and experimental meads to the wonders of koji mould and its transformative enzymes. And yes — we even get into the bad, weird, and downright challenging ferments, from stinky tofu to the notorious surströmming.Whether you’re a brewer, bartender, chef, or simply curious about the invisible life that feeds us, this episode is a deep dive into a living tradition — one that’s as old as civilisation, and as alive as the microbes themselves.

02:55 The Origins of Fermentation - Metabolism of Alcohol
06:42 The Breadth of Fermented Foods in our Diets - Flavour, Preservation, Texture
09:45 Misconceptions About Fermented Food & Drink - Language, Health, Germophobia, Challenging the Notions of Fresh & Fast
21:04 Sandor’s Journey in Fermentation - Childhood Encounters, Macrobiotic Diet
24:25 Gardening, Fermenting Tomatoes, Other Preservation Techniques, Fermentation Traditions
29:50 Microbes: Bacteria, Yeast & Mould - Isolation, Symbiosis, Environmental Conditions, Making Sauerkraut
37:14 Pathogenic Bacteria vs. Lactic Acid Bacteria
38:17 Wild vs. Cultured Fermentation - Backslopping, Sourdough, Making Yoghurt, Pure Culture Starters, Natto Bacteria
47:25 Fermentation as a Manifestation of Place - Mezcal, Bioprospecting for Yeast
58:00 Yeast - Efficiency vs. Flavour
59:49 Experiments in Alcohol Fermentation - Rice, Chinese Yeast Balls, Sumac Mead, Turmeric Mead
1:03:24 Tips for Wild Alcohol Fermentation - Stirring, Sugar, The Myth of Sterilisation, Protocols
1:09:00 Lightly Fermented Tonic Beverages - Tepache, Chicha, Country Wines, Orange Blossom Cordial, Meadowsweet Wine, Spruce Tip Wine, Root Beer, Ginger Beer
1:14:10 Water Kefir & Kombucha - Biology, Flavour Development, Alcohol Development, Commercialisation of Kefir & Kombucha, Origins
1:23:11 Koji Mould - Biology, Applications, Protease Enzymes, Sake, Soy Sauce
1:30:25 Use of Fermented ingredients in Bars and Restaurants - Cocktail Hacks, Sustainability, Narrative
1:37:41 Life Changing Ferments - Cheese. Stinky Tofu, Conditioning to Fermented Flavours
1:40:40 Bad/Weird/Disgusting Ferments - surströmming 

Toby Cecchini is a bartender of some 40 years, the author of Cosmopolitan which remains the best memoir on the life of a bartender, but perhaps best known for inventing the drink by the same name, which defined an era and still attracts love and hate from consumers and bartenders alike. With a storied career spanning decades at some of New York City's most iconic bars, Toby's insights into bar culture, drink creation, and hospitality continue to influence bartenders around the globe.

I revisited Toby’s memoir, "Cosmopolitan: A Bartender's Life," ahead of our conversation in New York. It captures a raw and candid snapshot of the New York bar scene of the late '80s and '90s. We being the conversation talking about his shifting perceptions of the book—and the industry itself—over the past two decades.

We also address the shifting role of bars as vital social spaces, we discuss cocktail batching, the guest bartending phenomenon, and the blurred lines between bartenders and chefs. Toby also shares some anecdotes from the 80’s including some brutally honest takes on Andy Warhol.

Sharp, direct, and refreshingly unapologetic, Toby offers a much-needed perspective for anyone interested in the real nuts and bolts of cocktails and hospitality. From a personal point of view this was a conversation I have been wanting to have for years and it was one of the must fun ones I’ve had on the podcast to date.

This episode is sponsored by Fever-Tree Mixers

To support the podcast please rate it, subscribe

and share. Thanks!

02:22 Cosmopolitan the Book - Toby’s Relfections 21 Years Later
07:08 The Bar as a Third Place - Purpose, Function, Niches, Democratisation, Performance, Money, Japanese Bars, Hotel Bars
18:07 Bartending Then & Now - Staff, Problem Solving, Working the Floor
21:18 The Myriad Problems with Guest Shifts
24:09 Batched Cocktails vs. A La Minute - Changing perception of a Bartender’s Function, Chef vs. Bartender
36:05 Split Basing Cocktails, Rum, Bourbon, Scotch
39:56 Creating Unsettling Atmospheres in Bars - 10 Second Theory, Vibes, Music
46:10 The Changing Nature of Bartending, Cocktail Renaissance, New York, Public Perception of Cocktails, Nerds
53:18 The Psychology of New Yorkers vs. Brits
1:00:40 Reminiscing the 80’s & 90’s Bar Scene - Getting Old, Sering Artists (Warhol, Haring, Basquait)
1:02:42 Treatment of Hospitality Staff by Famous People, Treatment of Guests by Bartenders, Hospitality
1:08:52 Inventing the Cosmopolitan cocktail, The Odeon, Other Claims, Absolute Citron, Formulas & Garnishing
1:25:23 Revisiting Cosmopolitan the book
1:28:08 The Story of Long Island Bar

Joy is a true legend of the spirits industry. As Master Blender at Appleton Estate in Jamaica, she holds the historic distinction of being the first woman ever appointed Master Blender in the world. A trained chemist, Joy’s remarkable sensory talents and scientific rigour have been instrumental in Appleton’s rise to global prominence, making her one of the most respected figures in rum today.

I first met Joy several years ago in Jamaica and have remained fascinated by her pioneering story ever since.

In this episode, we delve deeply into what makes Jamaican rum so distinctive, exploring the chemistry behind its bold flavours.We discuss the difference between pot and column stills in respect of rum styles or marques, the Appleton maturation processes, the unique geography of the Appleton Estate, and the detailed chemical processes, including ester formation and higher alcohols and the crucial role of fermentation and ageing in flavour development. We also talk about the newly released Appleton 51 year old - the oldest ever tropical aged rum that has been brought to market and we also discuss the broader challenges facing the rum category, from overcoming misconceptions around quality and value to navigating the complexities of geographical indications 

On that note - Jamaican Rum GI was established in  In October last year, Jamaica’s Intellectual Property Office amended the GI for Jamaica Rum, originally established in 2016, to ban ageing overseas. This move, pushed by the Spirits Pool Association representing Jamaica’s six distilleries, aims to strengthen the GI However, the change sparked controversy from National Rums of Jamaica (NRJ)—which owns Long Pond and Clarendon—because Maison Ferrand relies on ageing rum abroad. 

Beyond rum itself, Joy shares the extraordinary personal story of how she became Master Blender, overcoming societal expectations and barriers in Jamaica to carve out a groundbreaking career. She reflects openly on mentorship, innovation, her personal blending style, and her hopes for the future of premium rum.

Episode sponsored by Fever-Tree

00:00 Intro

08:15 What Makes Jamaica Rum Special? Pot Stills, Weight, Diversity
13:55 Becoming a Master Blender - Challenges, Chemistry, Culture of Rum
23:30 Blending Rum - Consistency, Innovation, Joy’Marques, Hearts Collection, Pot vs. Column
28:55 Sugar Cane, Molasses, Water, Fermentation, Chemistry of Appleton, Flocking & Stability
40:28 Maturation - Fill Strength, Angel’s Share, Refilling, Cask Types
43:35 Appleton Estate 51yo The Source, Ultra Premium Rum, Appleton 8yo, Diversity of Rum Styles, Coconut
54:06 Jamaica Rum Geographical Indication (GI)
58:33 Future of Jamaica Rum, A Global Rum G, Additives, Nutritional Information
1:05:48 The Appleton Estate Effect, Visitors Centre
1:08:55 Wray & Nephew Rum - Culture, Uses, Wray & Nephew 17

Esteban is the founder of Casa Endemica which is a stable of brands that includes La Venenosa Raicilla, Derumbes Mezcal, La Higuera Sotol. He has been a major force in championing mezcal outside of he state of Oaxaca (where 91% of mezcal is made) and really led the charge on exposing the amazing spirits of ancestral raicilla (the mezcal of the state of Jalisco).

I met Esteban about a year ago when I was writing my agave spirits book, and was instantly blown away by his knowledge of the vast landscape of agave spirits producers but also his deep rooted respect and admiration he has for the culture and methodologies of the communities that make these spirits.

This conversation is really a revisit to that same conversation we had in Guadalajara. You can expect to learn how it Filipinos instigated the production of mezcal in Mexico during the 17the century, how archaeological finds near the Colima volcano might hint at a more ancient form of distillation in Mexico that would upend the history books if it were true, the regionality of mezcal and how people and plants play into that, how the mezcal and proposed raicilla DO - designation of origin - falls short and what needs to be done about it, and at the end we talk about Esteban’s latest project - his first distillery… making tequila.

Big thanks to Davide Segat from The Nomad Hotel for letting us record there and Gaby Moncada for helping with scheduling!

Episode Sponsored by Fever-Tree

Buy my agave spirits book here - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Curious-Bartenders-Agave-Safari-appreciating/dp/1788796799

Casa Endemica - https://www.casaendemica.com/en/home-eng/

00:00 Introduction

02:27 Fillipino Distillation Technocoly Arrvies in Mexico

07:21 Captcha Clay Pot Distillation Theory

16:02 Capacha Still Design, Wixárika Stills

26:47 The Mezcal Industry Today - Derrumbes Brand

30:37 Raicilla, 400 Cornejos and Mayahuel

39:52 Regionality in Mezcal

43:02 Sourcing Great Mezcal - Humans Culture, Quality, Economics

45:12 Mezcal: Congeners, Industry, Politics, Scale, Value & Opportunity

1:09:33 The Mezcal DO - Growing the DO, Infrastructure, Regulating Bodies, Potential Solutions

1:17:30 Raicilla - DO, Draft NOM, Fermentation Vessels

1:33:13 Bagaso Tequila Distillery - Carbon Neutral Tequila, Sustainability in Agave Spirits

Francois Thibault is the co-creator of Grey Goose vodka, which launched in 1997  quickly became the world’s most respected super premium vodka brand. 

I travelled to Picardy in Northern France alongside Grey Goose’s global brand ambassador, Joe McCanta to meet Francois, and visit the wheat fields of the region the distillery where Grey Goose is made. I should say at this point that Grey goose didn’t pay me anything - I was genuinely interested to learn more about the product and to meet Francois, And Joe had some space on a trip with some journalists from the US.

00:00 Introduction

04:44 The vision of Sydney Frank and Grey Goose

06:34 Becoming a Maitre de Chai - Cognac Cellar Master

10:29 Transitioning to vodka from cognac 

12:42 Wheat - Picardy, agriculture

15:16 Improvements and Refinements of the Grey Goose process

20:16 Water and its importance to vodka - Grey Goose Altius

23:37 Character vs. Purity in Vodka

28:14 Vodka Misconceptions

33:16 The Future of Vodka

42:28 Closing Thoughts

Jared Brown and Anastasia Miller are internationally acclaimed authors, historians, distillers. They are the co-founders of Mixellany Limited, they have consulted for spirits brands and bars worldwide, contributing significantly to contemporary cocktail culture. It’s also Jared and Anastasia we have to thank for discovering the first known written reference to a 'cocktail' - from 1798.

They have written quite a few books including "Shaken Not Stirred: A Celebration of the Martini" and "Spirituous Journey: A History of Drink," additionally they have reprinted classic cocktail books and distilling manuals such as the Cafe Royal Cocktail book and The Distiller of London (which comes up in the conversation) .Jared has been the master distiller of Sipsmith since the distillery was built in 2009 and Anastasia was recently awarded a doctorate in brewing and distilling history - which is rumoured to be the first in history.

Their most recent book is called A Most Noble Water, which is a book about gin that takes the established conventions of gin history head on and pretty much destroys them all. On the episode you can expect to learn how and why tonic water was really mixed with gin during the time of the British Raj, how German and Austrian housewives factor into the story of gin, how the royal family influenced drinking culture in the 17th and 18th centuries, the most popular drinks in the Netherlands in the late seventeenth century century (hint - it wasn’t genever, but it does go in a martini), the significance of a 1639 book called The Distiller of London, why the gin craze wasn’t the gin craze, and at the end, a question about who really wrote the savoy cocktail book - plus much much more.

03:16 The Commonly Held Myths of English Gin: Dutch Courage, William of Orange, Gin Craze, Gin Acts

14:23 Gin & Tonic Mythology, Bonus Daiquiri/Cuba Libre History, Mark Twain’s Doctor, Carbonated Beverages as Medicine

24:40 The Origins of Distillation: Silk Roads, Persians, Moors, Arrival in Europe

28:21 The 15th Century Female Distillers of Austria and Germany

32:19 The Introduction of Juniper into Spirits: Biology, Distribution, Medicine, Early Distillation Manuals & Early Gin-like Drinks

42:31 Distillation Technology in the 15th Century – The Migration of Distillation Technology, Historical Research

48:56 Albertus Magnus and Roger Bacon, Arnaud de Villanueva, The Philosopher’s Stone

53:36 The Royal Families, Conspicuous Consumption, Influencers

56:06 Unlicensed Distillers of London, Molasses Spirit, Distilling Books of the 17th Century

59:42 The Trajectory of Distilling Knowledge Through Europe Italy: University of Salerno in 12th Century, Responsible Historical Research

1:02:56 Netherlands and the Low Countries: The Origins of Genever, Single Shot Rye Distillations, Vermouth Trends in the 17th Century

1:06:21 The Distiller of London (1639), The First English Gin, Pink Gin, ‘Sweets’

1:13:20 Measuring Alcoholic Strength Throughout The Years: Proof, Hydrometers, Bubble Tests

1:15:52 Aqua Crapulum, Recreating Aqua Fructum, Decoding The Distiller of London

1:21:59 Continuous Distillation and Neutral Spirit: Charles Derosne, Celier Blumenthal, Anaeas Coffey

1:24:07 The Economics of Distilling & Brewing in the 18th Century, Class Divide, FOMO, Female Distillers & Compounders

1:29:17 Lower Class Gin – Vitriol, Turpentine, Lime, Ethyl Ether

1:32:46 Alcohol Consumption in England in the 18th Century – Social Reform, The ‘Gin Acts’ – Sellers, Distillers, Compounders, Informants – First Reference of ‘Gin’ 1714 – The Fable of the Bees

1:45:51 The Gentrification of Gin – Cost to do Business, Introduction of Minimum Still Size – Emergence of London Dry (by 1860) & Old Tom (1811) – Purchasing Gin

1:52:41 How Gin Was Being Consumed through the Centuries – Gin Lane, Ginger Bread, Gin Cocktails

2:00:20 The Mystery of the Savoy Cocktail Book & Kokuteeru

🙏 This episode is sponsored by Fever-Tree

Kevin Armstrong is a bartender, bar owner, spirits and cocktail educator and the author of Round Building, a manual for the professional bartender. Kevin rose to fame in the London bar scene over 20 years ago as the group bar manager for the Match Bar Group. He wrote and deployed the most comprehensive cocktail training program of the era, contributing significantly to the critical acclaim of bars like Milk & Honey, The Player, Trailer Happiness, and Sosho to name a few. He has since gone on to open Satan’s Whiskers, which over its 12 years of existence has become one of the best loved bars in London and more recently featured in the World’s Best Bars. 

Kev and I were together in Scotland a few weeks ago and got inthralled in some deep conversations about cocktails and bars. He is known to have strong and well thought out opinions on various topics pertaining to drinks and drinking, so I was delighted when he agreed to come on the podcast. I was also keen to hear about the rise of Satans Whiskers as a globally recognised venue.

On the episode you can expect to hear about Kev’s early career in bars and how he transitioned to the match bar group, you can hear us remeniss over the London bar scene as it was in the early noughties, we talk about his time at Soul Shakers working with Michael butt and bars like Mahiki, then becoming a bar operator, first with pubs and then Satan's whiskers. We spend some time talking about modern cocktail bars, both the things we like and don’t like, including homogeneity, ingredients, batching, and more, then we touch on bar awards and finally finish with a surprise quiz! Well, a surprise for Kev that is - not me.

Episode Sponsored by Fever-Tree

Iván Saldaña is a Mexican biologist and internationally recognised expert on agave spirits. With a PhD from the University of Sussex, his research focuses on agave ecology and evolution. Saldaña co-founded Montelobos Mezcal and Casa Lumbre, launching innovative brands like Ancho Reyes, Abasolo whisky, and Sotol Nocheluna. He blends scientific expertise with sustainable practices, and is one of the leading voices in the global agave and spirits industries.

In this episode, we explore the fascinating world of agave, from biology and genetic diversity to the risks of monoculture farming and crucial pollinators like bats. We discuss the role of terroir in tequila, explore fermentation variables before delving into Mezcal's denominations of origin, ancestral methods, environmental politics, and the balance between tradition and modernity. Lastly, we cover other intriguing Mexican spirits such as Sotol—including celebrity-backed brands like Nocheluna—as well as innovative non-alcoholic spirits like Almave, and concluded with Abasolo Whisky and the cultural significance of nixtamalised corn drinks.

This episode is sponsored by Fever-Tree

Find Casa Lumbre (and all their products) here - https://www.casalumbretour.com

Thanks to Paolo for making this happen, and to Carlos for letting us record at Café Pacifico.

Luca Gargano, CEO of Velier, is one of the most influential figures in rum, known for transforming the rum category globally. Based in Genoa, Italy, Luca's expertise spans wine and spirits trading, authorship, and deep-rooted connections within the Caribbean rum world.

In this episode, Luca discusses his extensive experience travelling the Caribbean, beginning with his early life and connections to Rhum St James in Martinique. He explores the evolution of the Italian rum market, influenced by historical events like communism and the popularity of Cuban rum. Luca provides insights into rum classification based on raw materials and distillation methods, alongside discussions on tropical ageing, angel's share economics, esterification, and authenticity in production. The conversation touches on critical issues of transparency and labelling regarding additives and sugar in rum.

He reflects on the dynamics of partnerships versus independent bottling, highlighting his collaboration with Foursquare Distillery and Richard Seale. Luca offers detailed knowledge of Haiti's Clairin, including historical context, production methods, logistical challenges, and the ageing process. The narrative then turns to his discovery and revitalisation of Trinidad’s Caroni rum. He discusses the philosophy behind knowledge sharing in hospitality, the importance of seminars, and balancing tradition with modern technology.

Finally, Luca introduces his visionary "Nomad Project" inspired by HMS Walrus, a floating rum distillery, and Mother Mesccia, an innovative Haitian and Monaco rum project aged in Marsala and Vermouth casks, offering insights into future rum innovations.

• Velier Official Website: www.velier.it

• Foursquare Rum Distillery: www.foursquare-rum.com

• Caroni History: Caroni Rum History

• Clairin - The Spirit of Haiti: Clairin Rum Information