In this episode, host Chip speaks with Emily Allard, the founder of 24 Sports Marketing. Emily shares her journey from being a professional softball player to starting her own sports marketing agency focused on women’s athletics. She discusses the challenges and opportunities in promoting women’s sports, emphasizing the importance of storytelling and education in digital marketing.



They also delve into the growth of women’s sports, the impact of key personalities, and the need for strategic and integrity-driven business practices. Emily offers insights for aspiring agency owners and highlights the potential future directions for her business.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “My view is if you want to be miserable, just go get a regular job. It’s a lot less stressful than running your own business.”



* Emily Allard: “I just feel this protection around the integrity and wanting to do good work for our current clients versus chasing some of these other big logos.”



* Chip Griffin: “Everything that I do and the content I produce and the consulting that I do is really just sharing what worked and what didn’t work for me when I tried it, so that you get the experience of my first time instead of having to do it with yours.”



* Emily Allard: “My biggest advice is how you move throughout the world is going to come back to you tenfold.”




About Emily Allard



24 Sports Marketing – Founder & CEOEmily Allard is a veteran digital marketer with more than a decade of experience executing tailored marketing plans for a wide variety of brands. With a special focus in women’s athletics, her work has led to record-breaking online sales days, membership and event registration milestones, and successful paid and organic marketing campaigns. From nonprofits to multi-million dollar companies, Allard has garnered sustainable success regardless of budget, size or resources.



Informed by a 21-year softball career that took her to the pros, Allard founded 24 Sports Marketing, LLC to fulfill her lifelong dream of moving women’s sports forward. She brings high-level and multi-channel digital marketing experience to an industry with unlimited potential.



Allard holds two degrees from Northwestern University and is a 2022 NU Athletics Hall of Fame inductee.



Resources




* 24 Sports Marketing website: https://24sportsmarketing.com/ Instagram: http://instagram.com/24sportsmarketingLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/24-sports-marketing/



* Connect with Emily Allard:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eallard24/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eallard24/





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Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Chats with Chip podcast. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA,

In this episode, Chip speaks with Ken Jacobs, principal of Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching, about providing constructive feedback to team members.



They discuss the importance of leadership coaching in the PR and communication space and the challenges of becoming a good leader without formal training. Ken emphasizes the necessity of providing constructive feedback that builds trust and respect, as well as the importance of listening and asking open-ended questions.



Chip and Ken also highlight the continuous process of coaching and the significance of maintaining open communication with team members to encourage their growth and success.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “I often equate the role of a manager to being like a blocking back in American football, your goal is to clear a path for your team members to have as much success as possible. It’s not to have them serve you in that process.”



* Ken Jacobs: “Leadership is a two part choice. Your conscious decision to lead. And their conscious decision to follow you.”



* Chip Griffin: “High performers have a tendency to like to talk. But the reality is that you need to be willing to sit back and listen.”



* Ken Jacobs: “The best leaders are coaches.”




About Ken Jacobs



Ken Jacobs, PCC, CPC, ELI-MP, an experienced consultant and certified coach, is the principal of Jacobs Consulting & Executive Coaching, which serves agencies, companies, senior leaders, executives and managers in the public relations, corporate communications, integrated communications, advertising, and marketing space.



Since 2007, he has helped agencies grow and manage business, improve client service and relationships, and enhance staff performance, communications, and leadership skills, while empowering communications CEOs, presidents, leaders, and senior managers to achieve and surpass their goals.



Jacobs holds Professional Certified Coach (PCC) credentials from the International Coach Federation (ICF), and is accredited as a Certified Professional Coach (CPC), Energy Leadership Index (ELI) Master Practitioner and a COR.E Leadership Dynamics Specialist by the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (iPEC).



Resources




* Ken Jacobs on LinkedIn



* Jacobs Consulting & Executive Coaching




Related




* Leadership lessons for agency owners (with guest co-host Ken Jacobs)



* Managing small agency employees to maximize performance



* How to hold agency employees accountable





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Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Chats with Chip podcast. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance,

In this episode, Chip speaks with agency advisor Tim Kilroy about the challenges and strategies for running a small agency. Tim shares his extensive experience in digital marketing and agency coaching, highlighting the importance of flexibility and adaptability in leadership.



They discuss the notion of many agency owners being ‘accidental’ and the necessity of creative problem-solving and rigorous operational procedures in today’s tough economic and technological landscapes. The conversation emphasizes fostering a supportive and clear environment for agency teams, allowing for autonomy and decentralized decision-making to drive success.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “To me, the businesses that tend to be the best are the ones that you come upon out of necessity or an opportunity that’s staring you right in the face. And I think that’s helpful for most agency owners because the vast majority of agency owners are accidental.”



* Tim Kilroy: “As the agency leader, your job is to not make happy clients. Your job is to create teams and systems that create happy clients.”



* Chip Griffin: “One of the challenges that agency owners have is understanding when and how to pivot. Because pivoting is good, but you can also do too much of it where you’re basically being carried by the latest breeze.”



* Tim Kilroy: “So many agency leaders never give their teams the skills, authority, and autonomy to make the right decision. And that’s the difference between working to succeed and preventing failure. Those two things are not the same.”




About Tim Kilroy



Tim Kilroy is an agency growth coach with a no-BS style, a sharp strategic brain, and a heart for founders who want to build businesses they actually want to run. After years in the trenches -launching, scaling, exiting and breaking agencies, he created the WTF Agency Method to help founders unclog revenue bottlenecks, fire themselves from sales, and turn their teams into content powerhouses.



Resources




* Website: https://timkilroy.com



* Connect with Tim on LinkedIn



* WTF Agency Assessment




Related




* Should your agency pivot to a new focus amid economic shifts?



* Building trust and letting your team shine



* Delegation for control freaks: How to let go and trust your team



* Do you trust your agency team members?





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Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance, and I am delighted to have with me today a fellow agency advisor...

In this episode, Chip talks with Melissa Vela-Williamson of MVW Communications about her unique journey in public relations and the importance of content creation. Melissa shares her background, highlighting her non-traditional path into PR and her passion for using public relations for social good.



They discuss her focus on helping nonprofits and education clients, her role as a content creator, and her work as a columnist for the Public Relations Society of America. Melissa also delves into the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on her business and the strategic approaches she took to maintain client relationships and grow her firm.



They explore the significance of writing books and producing various types of content, emphasizing the value of building relationships and demonstrating thought leadership in the communications industry.



Key takeaways




* Melissa Vela-Williamson: “I took the first job I could get, which I always tell new grads to do, take anything near communications, just get employed. You’ll be more desirable if you’re employed.”



* Chip Griffin: “Contact work now is very common. I know a lot of kids who come out of college who go straight into contracting as opposed to when we were out there in the workforce at first, that was a very unusual thing to do until you had a fair amount of experience.”



* Melissa Vela-Williamson: “There’s a misconception that you write a book and that book’s going to make you a lot of money. Well, it could, but not in the way you might think.”



* Chip Griffin: “Often people talk about creating lead magnets and funnels and all of that kind of thing. But really in the agency world, we’re trying to build relationships with potential new clients.”




About Melissa Vela-Williamson



Melissa Vela-Williamson is an internationally recognized public relations strategist, author, PRSA national columnist, and podcast host. She is accredited in PR, is an elite PRSA Fellow, is certified in diversity and uses PR for social good through her boutique firm, MVW Communications.



Resources




* Connect with Melissa and follow MVW Communications on LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram



* MVW Communications website



* Smart Talk Series podcast



* Smart Talk: Public Relations Essentials All Pros Should Know book 



* Latinas in Public Relations: Shaping Communications, Communities, and Culture book



* Melissa...

In this episode, Chip talks with Rachel Sales from the PR agency Enunciate about managing client communications in a chaotic world.



Rachel discusses the importance of empathy and strategy in addressing news and its impact on clients. They explore whether brand leaders should comment on current affairs, emphasizing the need for authenticity and aligning with business goals. Rachel shares a process for determining when and how clients should respond to news events.



The conversation also covers the evolving media landscape, the shift towards contributed content, LinkedIn strategies, and the importance of humanizing client messaging in turbulent times.



Key takeaways




* Rachel Sales: “You’re not going to connect and you’re not going to be human unless you understand what people are going through.”



* Chip Griffin: “Understand the risk of taking a stand. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it, but you need to make sure that you’re at least thinking, you know what, if I lose business from this segment of my population, I’m okay with that because I feel that strongly about it.”



* Rachel Sales: “Our clients who are impacted by news that’s happening, every single one has kept going. Some of what I’m advising them to do is not necessarily to comment on what’s going on, but to just keep showing the amazing things that they’re doing. Keep telling their story, keep inspiring their audiences. Keep showing what they do, what they’ve always done, no matter what the changes are.”



* Chip Griffin: “You can’t turtle, no matter how bad it is, how chaotic it is, whether it’s COVID, whether it’s politics, whether it’s something else, you need to keep doing what is right for your business.”




About Rachel Sales



Rachel Sales is the Founder & CEO of Enunciate, a marketing and PR agency that specializes in creative content. At Enunciate, Rachel works with mission-driven organizations all over the world to tell their stories and amplify their impact. Before launching Enunciate, Rachel co-founded Pink Pangea, the community for women who love to travel. Rachel has a BA and an MFA in creative writing from Columbia University.  She spends her days doing exactly what she loves.



Resources




* Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn



* Enunciate’s website



* Should I Comment on What’s Going on in the World?: A Step-By-Step Guide



* The Ultimate LinkedIn Content Checklist for Entrepreneurs




Related




* Communicating in the face of chaos, confusion, and conflict (featuring Karen Swim)
...

In this episode, Chip discusses with Patrick Rogan of IgnitionHR the challenges small agency owners face in supporting stressed employees.



They delve into the impact of both work-related and external stressors on employee performance, noting the increased stress during and after COVID-19. Patrick shares strategies for addressing these issues, such as maintaining open communication, offering flexibility, and utilizing employee assistance programs.



They also discuss the balance between being supportive and maintaining business operations, emphasizing the importance of creative solutions and understanding regulatory requirements.



Key takeaways




* Patrick Rogan: “Looking at some recent data from the Society of Human Resource Management, 44 percent of US employees right now feel burned out at work, 45 percent feel emotionally drained and 51 percent at the end of the day are just out of gas. And 84 percent of workers believe poorly trained managers are a factor in their work and stress.”



* Chip Griffin: “Just have a human reaction to whatever your employee tells you, as opposed to the natural instinct, which is, well, what does this mean for me and my business? Because that’s not how you resolve a situation.”



* Patrick Rogan: “Don’t focus on the missing deadlines, focus on what’s causing the missing deadline. So what’s going on here? And then don’t talk about the deadlines anymore. Focus on how can I support you with this?”



* Chip Griffin: “The bottom line is that you’re not sitting on an island alone. There are a lot of resources for you. There are resources for your team.”




About Patrick Rogan



Patrick Rogan, SHRM-CP is the Founder and Managing Director of IgnitionHR. He has been helping senior executives in both large and small organizations meet their strategic talent needs for the past 25+ years. He specializes in developing programs that help his clients attract, align, manage, and retain top talent.



Resources




* Ignition HR’s website




Related




* CWC 25: Patrick Rogan on HR for small-to-midsize agencies



* CWC 16: Patrick Rogan on strategies to hire and retain talent in the PR industry



* Focus on agency employee retention





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Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance, and I am delighted to have with me one of my most frequent guests. Patrick Rogan of IgnitionHR. Welcome to the show, Patrick.



Patrick Rogan: Hey Chip, happy to be here.



Chip Griffin: I am happy you are here because, because I wanted to talk to you about getting help.



So I,

In this episode, Chip chats with Lee McKnight, Jr. from RSW/US about the findings from their latest survey on agency and marketer perspectives.



They discuss key topics such as the discrepancies between agencies’ efforts to productize services versus clients’ preference for customized solutions, the increasing trend towards fixed-fee pricing over hourly billing, and the importance of staying ahead of trends to meet client expectations.



The conversation touches on the effectiveness of direct outreach and the role of AI and short-form video in modern agency practices. They also highlight the need for more meaningful client conversations and the diminishing popularity of RFPs as agencies focus on quality over quantity in their business development efforts.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “If you ask a client if they want something that is productized or customized, everybody’s going to say customized. But every creative firm that I’ve ever worked with has a process that they follow. That is productization.”



* Lee McKnight, Jr.: “There’s never been a better time for an agency to get in there and create some of these short-form videos.”



* Chip Griffin: “AI is a perfect thing to help in doing a proposal production. If you’re going to do proposals, and I would rather you didn’t.”



* Lee McKnight, Jr.: “There’s nothing worse than, especially on LinkedIn, taking these shortcuts where they just have the AI spit out a gratuitous business cliche. But I think there are ways AI can inform research and inform messaging in a way that maybe you hadn’t thought about.”




About Lee McKnight, Jr.



Lee is the VP of Sales for RSW/US, and earned his undergraduate degree at the University of Kentucky and JD from Cumberland School of Law in Birmingham, AL.



After graduating law school, he worked for an internet healthcare start-up in Nashville, a grocery wholesaler brokerage in Cincinnati, and then to RSW/US in 2007, where he’s worked with marketing agencies of all types to help drive their new business efforts.



Resources




* RSW/US website



* RSW/US 2025 New Year Outlook Report




Related




* Content, consistency, and conversions for agency biz dev (featuring Lee McKnight Jr.)



* Smart use of content helps agency business development



* Fresh research on agency new business





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Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance,

In this episode, Chip talks with Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro about the challenges faced by solos and small agency owners in the current chaotic environment. They discuss the impact of economic, political, and societal issues on public relations and communications, emphasizing the need for adaptability in business strategies.



They highlight the importance of diversifying communication tactics beyond traditional media relations, focusing on owned and internal communications, and the value of continuous business development. The conversation also covers managing anxiety among employees, clients, and agency owners themselves, and the importance of peer support and professional community engagement.



Key takeaways




* Karen Swim: “Stop pushing the lever of media relationships as your only tool in the toolbox. We’ve been saying this forever. Public relations is so much more, media relations is a tactic. It is not a strategy.”



* Chip Griffin: “The places where we typically have gone to help clients communicate are disappearing and/or changing substantially. And so we need to learn to adapt to that as a business.”



* Karen Swim: “You should be doing business development consistently, no matter how many clients you have. Full stop.”



* Chip Griffin: “You may need to adapt what services you’re pitching or who you’re pitching to. But as a solo or a small player, you have a lot more flexibility to do this.”




About Karen Swim



Karen Swim is many things but clients agree that she is genuine, hard working and cares deeply about their personal and professional success. Works with clients in a variety of industries including technology, healthcare and nonprofits. President of Solo PR Pro and co-host of That Solo Life podcast.



Resources




* Solo PR Pro website



* That Solo Life podcast



* Connect with Karen on LinkedIn




Related




* Turbulent times ahead for agencies?



* The role and impact of solo PR agencies today (featuring Karen Swim)



* Mistaken thinking about agency pricing





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The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.CWC with Karen Swim



Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance, and I’m delighted to have with me one of my most frequent guests, a very smart individual who always has great insights for us, Karen Swim of Solo PR Pro. Welcome, Karen.



Karen Swim: Thank you, Chip. It’s always great to, to be with you and, I’m going to apologize to your audience because I do have the flu, but the flu could not keep me away from doing your podcast. That’s how much. I like you.

In this episode, Chip talks with Steve Guberman of Agency Outsight about coaching agency owners through problems that they universally face.



Steve shares insights into setting realistic expectations with clients, avoiding over-servicing, and adjusting scopes and pricing appropriately.



Key topics include continuous communication, team involvement in the sales process, and the value of postmortems to learn from both successes and failures.



Additionally, they discuss the benefits of asking questions, remaining curious, and leveraging referrals and testimonials for business growth.



Key takeaways




* Steve Guberman: “I think most creative professionals are accidental business owners. They went to school for art or marketing or design or whatever. And now find themselves running a business and don’t have a clue how to do that.”



* Chip Griffin: “Every single client I talk with worries about over servicing.”



* Steve Guberman: “It starts with understanding what your client’s needs are and not selling them what you want them to have, but selling them on what the solutions to their challenges are.”



* Chip Griffin: “When I’m asked, how do I improve retention of my clients, I say it starts even before they sign the contract. They have to be aligned on expectations.”




About Steve Guberman



With over 25 years in the creative, marketing, advertising, and public relations industry, including a decade spent running and eventually selling his own successful agency, Steve Guberman now channels his expertise into coaching agency owners. As the founder of Agency Outsight, Steve helps owners unearth their challenges, define their goals, and conquer them all, enabling them to build and run the agency of their dreams.



Resources




* Connect with Steve on LinkedIn



* Listen to the Agency Bytes podcast



* Connect with Steve on Instagram



* Check out the Agency Outsight YouTube channel




Related




* The role of your team in selling agency services



* The difference between over-delivering and over-servicing agency clients





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The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.



Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance. And I am delighted to have with me today, another expert in agency land, Steve Guberman of Agency Outsight. Welcome to the show, Steve.



Steve Guberman: Thanks Chip. Great to be here. Great to see you.



Chip Griffin: It is great to have you here. I’ve been a guest on your show, enjoyed it.

In this episode, Chip talks with Jody Sutter of The Sutter Company, a frequent contributor. They discuss strategies for small agencies, emphasizing the importance of clear positioning and targeted messaging for effective business development.



They highlight the necessity for agency owners to identify their strengths and leverage them, using methods like 12-week sprints to achieve incremental progress. They also address the challenges agencies face when looking for quick revenue boosts and the significance of tapping into existing networks.



Key takeaways




* Jody Sutter: “I think business development is one of those things that the tools may change and yet the underlying philosophy and the underlying skillset rarely changes.”



* Chip Griffin: “It is so much easier to sell what you’re doing if you’re clear about what it is that you do and who you do it for, because your prospects hear themselves in that. And I think that the whole notion of being a full service agency that can do this for everybody and their brother just doesn’t make sense.”



* Jody Sutter: “Kind of simple, let’s get agency owners not using business development tactics that they don’t like, they don’t feel like they’re good at, and let’s get them doing the things that they do feel like they’re good at.”



* Chip Griffin: “All too often agencies do look at new business in isolation. They come up with plans for growing the business from a revenue standpoint, but they don’t think about what it means operationally.”




About Jody Sutter



Speaker, blogger, and owner of The Sutter Company, Jody Sutter ran business development teams at large agencies like R/GA, OMD and Havas, and spent over a decade in sales for a range of creative services firms, from branding design to digital advertising. She now provides the growth strategies and tools for agency owners to win new business.



Resources




* Email Jody about the Agency New Business Accelerator (or anything else)



* Jody Sutter’s LinkedIn




Related




* Planning for 2023 Agency Biz Dev



* Business development mistakes agencies make and how to solve them (featuring Jody Sutter)



* Small Agency Talk – February 5, 2021 (featuring Jody Sutter and Lee McKnight Jr.)



* Getting help for your agency business development efforts





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Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance. And I’m delighted to have back with me today a very regular contributor to really all of the different platform...

In this episode, Chip discusses agency business development with regular guest and seasoned expert Lee McKnight Jr., of RSW/US. The conversation covers the challenges agencies have been facing in 2024, such as prolonged sales cycles and client budget constraints.



They discuss survey findings indicating optimism among agencies. The dialogue also explores the role of AI in business development, emphasizing its current limitations but potential in the future.



They advocate for a consistent, omnichannel approach, stressing the importance of referrals and content creation like podcasts and videos to foster expertise and client relationships. The episode concludes by highlighting the need for persistence in business development efforts and the benefits of continuously providing valuable resources to prospects.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “The reality is that AI, like many things, can be very helpful. But it is not a replacement for anything.”



* Lee McKnight, Jr: “Agencies are going to default to referrals as they always have. And that’s not a bad thing. In fact, it’s a fantastic thing.”



* Chip Griffin: “You need to find whatever tactic it is that you can do well, that you will keep with, and that will help you to build your business much more quickly.”



* Lee McKnight, Jr: “Build it and they will not come just because you’ve done it. Now you’ve got to get it into your prospect’s lap.”




About Lee McKnight, Jr.



Lee is the VP of Sales for RSW/US, and earned his undergraduate degree at the University of Kentucky and JD from Cumberland School of Law in Birmingham, AL.



After graduating law school, he worked for an internet healthcare start-up in Nashville, a grocery wholesaler brokerage in Cincinnati, and then to RSW/US in 2007, where he’s worked with marketing agencies of all types to help drive their new business efforts.



Resources




* RSW/US website



* RSW/US 2024 Mid Year Progress Report



* Agency owner growth expectations and business development insights revealed in Q3 SAGA survey




Related




* Smart use of content helps agency business development



* What is business development like at other agencies in 2022?



* Fresh research on agency new business





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Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance. And I am delighted to have with me one of my most regular guests and a very interesting one at that, Lee McKnight Jr. Otherwise known as Lima Nightmare.

In this episode, Chip talks with David C. Baker, who has been dubbed “the expert’s expert.” He leads the advisory firm Punctuation, and has worked with more than 1,000 agencies to help them get better positioned for success.



The discussion focuses on improving agency management and scalability by emphasizing the importance of understanding business fundamentals and integrating them alongside the creative and strategic solutions.



Key topics include the benefits of proper positioning, effective client communication, strategic pricing, and the importance of sharing expertise.



Key takeaways




* David C. Baker: “If there’s one thing I could change by waving a magic wand over the industry, it’s to run their businesses better. The basic nuts and bolts of understanding people and processes and structure and pricing and financial performance.”



* Chip Griffin: “Agencies in general need to listen more and talk less. Particularly when they’re with prospects.”



* David C. Baker: “We’re so driven by the interest in variety and because we’re so desperate for new work, we’re terrified that a positioning decision will close off some opportunity.”



* Chip Griffin: “My position is that sales is a dirty word for agencies and it’s not really sales anyway. You’re trying to find the best fit clients and you should be comfortable telling people that you’re not the right option and sending them along to someone else.”




About David C. Baker



David C. Baker is an author, speaker, and advisor to entrepreneurial creatives worldwide. He has written 6 books, advised 1,000+ firms, and keynoted conferences in 30+ countries. His work has been discussed in dozens of international publications. Recently, the NY Times referred to him as” the expert’s expert”. He co-hosts the most listened to podcast in the creative services field (2Bobs).



Resources




* Punctuation



* 2Bobs podcast



* Get in touch with David by email



* David’s books Secret Tradecraft of Elite Advisors and The Business of Expertise





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The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.



Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance. And I am delighted to have with me David C. Baker of Punctuation. He is perhaps the longest serving agency advisor out there and a guy who’s got lots of great content that he puts out on a regular basis, newsletter, podcast.



He’s got books to his name. He is going to provide some great information and insight for you today. I know that for sure. Welcome to the show, David.



David C. Baker: Thank you. Longest serving. That’s like code for old.



Chip Griffin: Hey, you know, as I always tell people, you know, the reason why I can give advice now is because I’m bald, right?



David C. Baker: Yeah, right. Yeah,

Patrick Rogan of Ignition HR joins Chip to discuss the FTC’s new ruling on non-compete agreements and expected adjustments to overtime pay regulations.



They discuss strategies for managing overtime and compensation issues in small agencies, highlighting the importance of compliance, proactive planning, and seeking HR assistance when necessary.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “It’s important to plan in both cases as if these regulations will take effect because it’s a lot easier to back off on whatever plans you might have than it is to scramble at the last second to figure out what your solution might be.”



* Patrick Rogan: “The strength of a good non-solicitation is it sets an expectation for future behaviors. When you make it clear that this is against the rules – you can’t take our clients, you can’t hire employees when you leave – it just prevents it from happening.”



* Chip Griffin: “Ultimately, agencies need to treat their employees well, they need to treat them fairly, so that they’re not inclined to go out and try to screw them over by stealing clients or employees.”



* Patrick Rogan: “Make sure you have consistency with salaries and if you make it consistent with the hardest regulation out there, that usually works out to be easier for everyone in the long run.”




Resources




* Get in touch with Patrick at Ignition HR



* The Dept. of Labor’s new overtime rules



* The FTC’s non-compete rule




Related




* How should agencies prepare for new overtime rules?



* What new rules on overtime and non-competes mean for agencies



* How the FTC’s ban on non-competes impacts PR and marketing agencies



* CWC 25: Patrick Rogan on HR for small-to-midsize agencies



* Focus on agency employee retention



* How to think about HR risks in your agency





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Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance. And I’m, I guess I would say I’m delighted to have with me Patrick Rogan of Ignition HR, a great mind when it comes to all things talent related to agencies. And it is a pleasure to have you here, Patrick.

Meetings have evolved over the last few decades, so shouldn’t the agency owner’s role have changed?



In this episode, Chip and Brad Farris of Anchor Advisors discuss the importance of effective leadership and meetings in agencies, emphasizing the owner’s unique role in providing vision and direction.



They explore the need for well-structured meetings with agendas, purpose, and active participation from all members.



The conversation touches on techniques for better meetings, the role of leaders in encouraging participation, and the value of appreciating contributions and creating positive meeting experiences.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “A meeting ought to try to involve people in discussion, and it should be involving everybody on the call, because there’s no point in being on the call if you’re not participating.”



* Brad Farris: “The person that talks the most thinks more highly of the person who talks the least. So if you’re in a new business situation, the less you talk, the more that they’re going to think highly of you.”



* Chip Griffin: “Leadership is about creating the conditions to make the good decisions.”



* Brad Farris: “Fear means we’re doing something important. That fear is actually sharpening your senses, helping you to focus, helping you to be present.”




Resources




* Death by Meeting: A Leadership Fable about Solving the Most Painful Problem in Business



* Sign up for Brad’s newsletter



* Business Growth Phase Assessment




About Brad Farris



Brad Farris has helped hundreds of agency owners sharpen their focus, raise their prices, and hire better people so that their firms can scale and thrive. Brad has learned that success is driven less by what you do than by who you decide to be, and the biggest hurdle to your agency’s growth is between your ears.



Related




* How to make agency team meetings more productive



* Moving agency meetings from in-person to online



* Being present as an agency owner





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Author of Start with the Story: Brand-Building in a Narrative Economy, Kristian Alomá knows the value of brand storytelling for agencies and businesses.



In this episode, Kristian shares insights about his agency, Threadline, and the art of crafting a narrative that is relevant, meaningful, and inspiring to the audience. He and Chip cover the evolution of brand stories over time and the need for agencies to live their own brand stories. 



Chip and Kristian also discuss the value of a helpfulness mindset for growing a thriving agency. The importance of building trust and evolving with customers is highlighted throughout the conversation.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “Any true entrepreneur is constantly trying to figure things out and hopefully learning, mostly from our mistakes.”



* Kristian Alomá: “Probably at no point has owning an agency ever actually lived up to what I thought it would be, but at no point has it ever disappointed me.”



* Chip Griffin: “I’ve always loved about the community of entrepreneurs that almost without exception, entrepreneurs are happy to help other entrepreneurs because they have a passion for what they do.”



* Kristian Alomá: “Focus on three key elements when it comes to storytelling: is it relevant to your audience? Is it meaningful to your audience? And does it inspire your audience?”




Resources




* Connect with Kristian on LinkedIn



* Kristian’s book Start with the Story: Brand-Building in a Narrative Economy




About Kristian Alomá



Kristian A Alomá, PhD, is a seasoned storyteller and strategist who believes in harnessing the power of narrative psychology and social sciences to forge meaningful connections with audiences. Kristian has spent over 20 years enhancing major brands like Harley-Davidson and Coca-Cola and boosting nonprofit outreach with his marketing acumen.His brand strategy firm leverages his PhD in narrative psychology to develop impactful stories that engage stakeholders. A lecturer at the Kellogg SchoolCenter for Nonprofit Management at Northwestern University and author of “Start with the Story,” Kristian champions storytelling’s role in brand building, especially for nonprofits. Committed to ethical communication, he contributes to the American Psychology Association and B Lab’s Marketer’s Network. Based in Chicago with his family, Kristian’s passion for global cultures informs his narrative branding expertise.



Related




* How agencies can be helpful during the crisis



* 5 questions to help determine how well your agency works for you





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The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.



Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip.

In this episode, Chip talks with Nicholas Petroski, founder of Promethean Research.



Chip and Nick discuss digital agency salaries and the findings of a recent research report on the topic. They delve into the importance of balancing billable hours, the impact of pricing on agency profitability, and the role of benefits and stipends in attracting and retaining talent.



They also touch on the need for standardization of job titles in the agency industry. 



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “You need to be thinking about pricing and salaries hand in hand if you’re going to be running a healthy agency.”



* Nicholas Petroski: “You’re not going to compete with the large tech companies on salary. The lifestyle that you offer for your employees, that’s what you’re competing with.”



* Chip Griffin: “I encourage owners to think as early as possible in their evolution, even when they’re just hiring one or two employees, to start thinking about the hierarchy of titles and how you’re going to compensate them so you don’t create a problem down the road.”



* Nicholas Petroski: “If you’re pushing that utilization rate to crazy high numbers, either A, they’re lying to you. Or B, you’re working them so hard that they’re not going to be doing quality work anymore.”




Resources




* 2024 Digital Services Salary Guide (use discount code “SAGA” to purchase the guide for $100)



* Connect with Nick on LinkedIn



* Repeatable Revgen Guide for Digital Agencies



* Digital Agencies & AI Report



* Digital Agency Industry Report



* Agency Revgen Review Service




About Nicholas Petroski



Nicholas runs Promethean Research, a boutique consultancy that helps digital agencies grow more reliably with higher margins and simpler operations. Since 2015, he’s been helping digital firms better understand their industry and chart more effective paths to success. Prior to co-founding Promethean, he worked as an equity analyst at a Wall St. firm where he covered the enterprise software and semiconductor industries. Before that, he spent a bit of time in corporate finance. When he’s not in the office, you can find him backpacking around the Midwest or making fancy firewood in his woodshop.



Related




* CWC 26: Nick Petroski of Promethean Research



* The rising salary demands of agency employees



* Be smart about titles at your agenc...

Xaña Winans of Golden Proportions Marketing says that resiliency may be her superpower, and that’s a characteristic many agency owners needed to tap into as the pandemic upset existing business structures.



Like many owners, Xaña has kept her team remote. She shares some of her experience about how she made that transition and manages a team that is no longer full-time in the office. She talks about some of the challenges, as well as opportunities that creates.



In this conversation, Xaña also talks about how she started with a clear focus with the agency — which she has maintained — but also some of the evolution she has made along the way.



Key takeaways




* Chip Griffin: “Accidental agency owners are still the owners of the business and they should be designing something that actually works for them and gives them the financial satisfaction, the psychological satisfaction, and the happiness of being their own boss.”



* Xaña Winans: “A big part of it is for us to both find a voice in how to run this agency. Because I can’t do it without them, but they can’t do it without me either.



* Chip Griffin: “Don’t hire that diamond in the rough if you really need the diamond today, because diamonds take a long time to create.



* Xaña Winans: “I’ve had to remind myself that as an agency owner, vacations are not an indulgence. They’re actually a necessity.”




Resources




* Golden Proportions Marketing



* Connect with Xaña on LinkedIn




About Xaña Winans



Xaña Winans is the founder and CEO of Golden Proportions Marketing, the first strategy based, full-service marketing company exclusively for dentists. Xaña founded and built Golden Proportions Marketing on the belief that dentists deserved a goal-driven, strategic approach to marketing. Transparency, results, and return on investment are the driving forces behind the work her agency provides.



Xaña teaches her audiences the foundational principles of marketing, as well as the actionable strategies necessary to turn brand awareness into actual new patients. She believes that doctors should understand the patient journey in order to attract, capture, and keep new patients in the practice. Audiences will learn valuable internal marketing strategies and leave empowered to better manage and maximize their marketing relationships.



Xaña has been an invited speaker to numerous national dental meetings including GNYDM, Yankee, and the AACD as well as numerous state meetings and study clubs. She has been guest faculty for both Pankey and LVI, teaching marketing to thousands of dentists over her 30 year career. She and her husband Dr. Larry Winans are parents to Ryder and Savannah. Outside of dentistry, they have founded, manage, and market a regional craft brewery.




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The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.



Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance. And I’m delighted to have with me an agency owner who I think will be able to share a lot from her experience that will relate to a lot of you who are ...

In this episode, Chip talks with Jason Swenk of Agency Mastery 360 about the intricate dynamics of agency growth, operations, and sales. The discussion touches upon multiple challenges that agency owners grapple with daily, offering a number of actionable insights.




* The Accidental Agency Owner: Jason himself began as an accidental agency owner at 22 when he designed a website poking fun at the pop band, NSYNC. From there, he scaled to an eight-figure agency with over 100 employees before selling. The “accidental” trajectory resonates with many in the agency world, leading to unique challenges and growth patterns.



* The Importance of Clarity: Jason emphasizes that clarity is paramount for agency success. Many agencies fall into the trap of accepting any client that comes their way, diluting their niche and expertise. By clearly understanding the direction they want to take, agencies can build a robust framework and delegate more efficiently.



* The Agency CEO Role: The transition from owner to CEO is vital for growth. A CEO needs to set the vision, coach the leadership team, be the organization’s face, build strategic relationships, and understand essential financial metrics.



* To Sell or Not to Sell: When contemplating selling their agency, owners need to assess the motivation behind this decision. Whether it’s discontentment, wanting a change, or a genuine need for cash, understanding the core reason can make the process more seamless. Jason sheds light on valuation nuances, stressing the importance of EBITDA and the pitfalls of earnouts.



* Enhancing Sales and Lead Generation: One of the primary pain points for agency owners is sales. Jason recommends a multi-channel approach, which includes inbound and outbound strategies.




Chip and Jason highlight the importance of evolving with the agency. Whether it’s adjusting the business model, understanding financial metrics, or pivoting strategies, staying proactive ensures sustained growth and success.



Key takeaways



Jason Swenk: “We’re accidental. We knew how to do something cool. Someone offered us money and then the next thing we knew, we created this great prison around ourselves because we were doing everything.”



Chip Griffin: “If an agency owner is able to define their role effectively, they’re going to be more successful because they’re going to actually enjoy it.”



Jason Swenk: “If you come up with a plan, I don’t care if the plan works or not, you’re going to have so much more certainty in order to make the right decision. Then you’re inspiring your team rather than demotivating them.”



Chip Griffin: “I think that the expectations amongst a lot of agency owners are inflated as far as how easy it is for them to sell, what the sale looks like, how much money they’re going to get from it.”



Resources




* Agency Mastery 360



* Sign up for Jason’s weekly newsletter




About Jason Swenk



Jason Swenk is the agency advisor & coach that guides marketing agencies through a proven framework for growing their agency faster.

Few people in the agency world know more about the effective use of Wikipedia than Bill Beutler. As the founder of Beutler Ink, he and his team don’t just advise people about this popular platform, they also help clients communicate more effectively with infographics and other formats.



In this episode, Chip talks with Bill about the evolution of Wikipedia in recent years and how agencies can help their clients navigate the sometimes confusing editing ecosystem without getting themselves into trouble.



The pair also discuss how artificial intelligence impacts Wikipedia and communicators.



Key takeaways




* Bill Beutler: “The volunteer editors based at Wikipedia don’t think of themselves as providing a marketing service. So they do not roll out the red carpet for PR and marketing people.”



* Chip Griffin: “We all come to the table with biases, whether conscious or not. And they will show through if we look closely enough at anyone’s writing.”



* Bill Beutler: “AI could be useful in the near future, but it really has a long way to go before it’s ever going to replace writers or, frankly, even going to be a useful tool for doing research and compiling it.”



* Chip Griffin: “Agencies need to help educate their clients on what are the important changes that you would like to see to your Wikipedia article versus the ones where it’s just kind of annoying.”




Resources




* Beutler Ink



* WikiWatch



* Can you use ChatGPT to write Wikipedia articles?




About Bill Beutler



William Beutler is the founder and president of Beutler Ink, an award-winning strategic creative agency that helps emerging brands and industry trailblazers tell their stories through engaging content, dynamic social media strategies, and an honest approach to reputation. Founded in 2010 and counting two dozen employees, Beutler Ink is especially known for its pioneering work in public relations for Wikipedia. Outside of agency leadership, William Beutler has also been a blogger, podcaster, and film producer. He began his career as a political journalist in Washington, DC.



Related




* CWC 4: William Beutler of Beutler Ink



* Spotlight on William Beutler of Beutler Ink





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The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.



Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host Chip Griffin and I am delighted to have with me a regular guest on some of my shows a good friend a really smart guy And I think we’re gonna have a great conversation Bill Beutler of Beutler Ink. Welcome to the show Bill.



Bill Beutler: Chip Thank you so much for having me.



It’s been it’s been a moment. I’m glad you think of me as a regular.

If you dread difficult conversations, Allyns Melendez of HR Transformed has some great tips to make them easier — or perhaps to head them off altogether with better communications.



In this episode, Chip and Allyns talk about ways that you can solicit ongoing feedback from agency employees and build a management structure that encourages meaningful two-way conversations.



Of course, difficult conversations can’t always be avoided. When you need to have them, Allyns suggests a framework for those meetings that will make them less painful and more productive.



Key takeaways




* Allyns Melendez: “Junior leadership is going to believe that success looks like the owner of the company.”



* Chip Griffin: “A lot of managers think my job is to direct and tell you what to do. But a large piece of it is the listening part.”



* Allyns Melendez: “What is the worst that can happen if you don’t have the conversation and if you do have the conversation? The benefits are there for having the conversation, especially if you use the words that are clear.”



* Chip Griffin: “If you are managing in one particular way, you cannot expect those managers underneath you to behave differently.”




Resources




* HR Transformed



* HR Transformed on Instagram




About Allyns Melendez



Allyns has 25+ years of human resources and business managementexperience, a Master’s in Business Administration from TempleUniversity Fox School of Business, a Bachelor’s Degree in Business &HR Management from Kaplan University, is a certified analyst of twoworkplace behavior platforms, is certified in Human ResourcesStudies from Cornell’s ILR School, a certified leadership coach andcompleted courses in Leadership Strategies from Harvard BusinessSchool and Neuroscience for Business at MIT.With a passion for human capital and business strategy, she helpsbusinesses understand the necessary tactics that will help develop,train, educate and motivate their employees. Allyns currently servesas CEO at HR Transformed, COO at a national public relations firm andis a Professor of Continuing Education for Temple University.



Related




* Questions to guide employee performance conversations





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The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.



Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Chats with Chip. I’m your host, Chip Griffin, the founder of SAGA, the Small Agency Growth Alliance, and I am delighted to have with me someone who is going to help us have I don’t know, an easy conversation about difficult conversations and other things. Her name is Allyns, Allyns, ah, see, I knew I was going to mess this up, Allyns Melendez, the CEO of HR Transformed.



I was thinking about it too much, Allyns, I, I, I need to just stop thinking, right? I mean, that’s, that’s the advice I’m sure you give all your clients, just stop thinking, just do. Yes. Yes. No, I think that’s probably not the advice you would, you would give as an HR expert because it’s,