Episode 061 - Six Weeks to Grow? Yes, Please!



Journaling for Spiritual Growth, my book that teaches you a sustainable practice for spiritual and emotional growth, comes out this week. This is the 2nd edition, published with Whitaker House. Let's browse through the book together!







Show Notes



In this episode, Marc discusses his new book, Journaling for Spiritual Growth (2nd ed.), exploring its themes, structure, and the transformative power of journaling. He pages through the book, pointing out key features, so you can sort out if this is the right book for you.



Takeaways




Journaling is a transformative practice that can lead to personal and spiritual growth.



The book is structured into six weeks, each focusing on different aspects of journaling.



Perspective is crucial for a sustainable journaling practice.



Templates can help guide your journaling and make it more effective.



Grace is the only safe environment for spiritual growth.



The appendices provide valuable resources and insights for journaling.



Creating a habit of journaling requires understanding competing habits.



Silence is an essential part of the journaling process.



Inward and Godward reflections are key ingredients for effective journaling.



Faithfulness in journaling means returning to the practice consistently.




Recommended Resources




www.JournalingForSpiritualGrowth.com





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More about My Conversation Partner



It's me. Hi. I'm the problem, it's me.



Marc Alan Schelske is a happily recovering fundamentalist praying for the restoration of all things. He writes and teaches about spiritual maturity, emotional growth, and the other-centered, co-suffering way of Jesus. His books, including Walking Otherward, Journaling for Spiritual Growth, and The Wisdom of Your Heart, can be found at www.MarcAlanSchelske.com. Marc serves as the teaching elder at Bridge City Community Church in Milwaukie, Oregon, a suburb of Portland, where we work to keep all things, even Christianity, a bit weird.



Find Marc Here




Website: www.MarcAlanSchelske.com



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarcAlanSchelske



Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcalanscherlske/



Threads: https://www.threads.com/@marcalanschelske




Today's Sponsor




Journaling for Spiritual Growth - Brand new 2nd edition. Available in all the book places.












Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:00Hey, friends. I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 61: Six weeks to grow? Yes, please!



SPONSOR



Today's podcast is brought to you by my brand-new hot-off-the-presses book, Journaling for Spiritual Growth. Second Edition. Launch day is always exciting for an author, and this is my sixth launch. I'm starting to feel like I'm actually an author, maybe. The rest of this podcast is going to have to do with this book in some way,

Episode 060 - Navigating Toward LGBTQ Affirmation (or How I became an Affirming Pastor)



My journey from the Traditionalist view to becoming a fully Affirming pastor, with a perspective on a Gospel path to full Inclusion. This is a recorded version of the same presentation I gave at the Open Table Conference School of Theology in Sunriver in June of 2025.







Show Notes



In this episode, Marc Alan Schelske explores the complex relationship between faith and LGBTQ affirmation. Through personal stories, theological reflection, and the teachings of Jesus, he explains his own journey from the Traditionalist position to a position of full welcome, inclusion, and affirmation.



Takeaways




Marc, like many of us, had never really investigated the claims of the Traditionalist position that justified exclusion.



The resources for in-depth study on this topic, including all the relevant scriptures, are provided in a downloadable resource for free.



The Gospel, which is the narrative of Jesus' life, acts, teaching, death, and resurrection, is meant to show us the true face of the Father so that we can set aside the false images we project onto God.



Jesus' life shows us over and over that God's nature is to include those on the margins, rather than protect hard lines of exclusion.




Recommended Resources




Blog Version of my School of Theology presentation on John 13, The Foot Washing.



Downloadable 11-page PDF Resource: Navigating LGBTQ Inclusion



The Open Table Conference



Information and Registration for Fall Class: A Gospel Path to LGBTQ Affirmation



Email Marc at Marc@MarcAlanSchelske.com to get on his invite list for the weekly writing sessions at Slow Pour or the twice-monthly virtual co-writing sessions.









Scroll down for a full transcript of this episode.



You can also watch and share the video version on YouTube.








More about My Conversation Partner



It's me. Hi. I'm the problem, it's me.



Marc Alan Schelske is a happily recovering fundamentalist praying for the restoration of all things. He writes and teaches about spiritual maturity, emotional growth, and the other-centered, co-suffering way of Jesus. His books, including Walking Otherward, Journaling for Spiritual Growth, and The Wisdom of Your Heart, can be found at www.MarcAlanSchelske.com. Marc serves as the teaching elder at Bridge City Community Church in Milwaukie, Oregon, a suburb of Portland, where we work to keep all things, even Christianity, a bit weird.



Find Marc Here




Website: www.MarcAlanSchelske.com



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarcAlanSchelske



Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcalanscherlske/



Threads: https://www.threads.com/@marcalanschelske




Today's Sponsor




The Writers Advance - A weekend to help writers write. November 13-16, 2025. For more information, see: www.TheWritersAdvance.com












Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:03Hey, friends. I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth, following the way of Jesus. This is episode 60: Navigating Toward LGBTQ Affirmation (Or How I became an...

Episode 059 - How the Beatitudes Could Save the World and Us. (With Dr. Bradley Jersak)



An offhand comment by Dr. Jersak prompted this conversation. "We’re pushing back against the construction of a Christianity that’s the opposite of the Beatitudes. For those who don’t want to be susceptible to the lure of power-over Christianity, I recommend praying the Beatitudes every day . . . it is a furnace of discernment like none other." Woah...In a world where Christian leaders and many of their followers are increasingly espousing structures of power-over, saying empathy is a sin, and even co-opting the language of "Godly Hate,"4 For instance, "Christians must recover the lost virtue of Hatred. If not, Christianity will survive, but the West will be finished." - Pastor Joel Webbon, Twitter message, May 19, 2025. there is a real urgency to re-center our practice on Jesus' teaching in the Beatitudes.







Show Notes



In this conversation, Dr. Bradley Jersak and I explore the urgent need for Christians to re-center themselves in the Beatitudes as a guide for spiritual growth, ethical living, and community engagement. The need for this has only increased with the rise of Power-over ideologies such as Christian Nationalism, and forms of Christianity that are denying the way of Jesus in their actions.



Takeaways




Praying the Beatitudes can lead to personal transformation.



Kenosis, or self-emptying, is a key aspect of living out the Beatitudes.



Christian nationalism and all forms of power-over ideology contradict the teachings of Jesus, and this can be most clearly seen in the Beatitudes.



The Beatitudes call for a radical rethinking of patriotism and can counteract misguided theology.



A commitment to praying the Beatitudes regularly will serve as a "furnace of discernment" for wise discernment of what is truly "the word of the Lord" in our lives.




Recommended Resources




The Ladder of the Beatitudes, by Jim Forest.



Beatitudes: When Mountain Meets Valley, by Ron Dart.



Are We Done Fighting: Building Understanding in a World of Hate and Division, by Matthew Legge.



Downloadable "Furnace of Discernment" Beatitute Prayer PDF





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More about My Conversation Partner



Dr. Bradley Jersak



Bradley is an author and teacher based in Abbotsford, BC. He currently serves as the Principal of St. Stephen’s University in New Brunswick, where he continues as the Dean and faculty member of SSU’s School of Theology & Culture. He also teaches peace studies courses with the Jim Forrest Institute. Through his books and seminars, Brad shares the good news that God is Love, perfectly revealed in Jesus Christ, and that God’s love heals wounded hearts and empowers us to heal this broken world.



Find Bradley Here




Website: https://bradjersak.com/



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bradley.jersak



Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bradley.jersak/



Threads: https://www.threads.net/@bradley.jersak




Today's Sponsor




YOU! Via your support of My Writing - After being nagged by a number of friends, I've opened a means for you to directly support my writing work.

Episode 058 - Following Jesus in the Face of Political Panic, Christian Supremacy, and Creeping Fascism. (With Susan Carson, Bradley Jersak, and Brian Zahnd.)



We stand in a dire historical moment, and one of the questions that is swirling for many of us is about what it means to be a Christian right now. There are folks wearing the label Christian, many in good faith, who are endorsing things that seem so plainly unlike Christ. The chaos is swirling and it is all coming at us so fast that we are being overwhelmed. Because this is so important, I invited some friends to talk about this crisis, and how Other-centered, Co-suffering love can lead us.







Show Notes



In this conversation, motivated by the launch of my new book, Walking Otherward: Forty Meditations on Following Jesus' Path of Other-centered, Co-suffering Love, Susan Carson, Dr. Bradley Jersak, and Brian Zahnd discuss how this path might help us face the moment.



Takeaways




Fear makes us susceptible to the temptation to use power-over as a way to try to get good things done.



This temptation is the same that Jesus faced in the wilderness, and the church is facing it again today.



Gathering in church communities committed to practicing the other-centered, co-suffering way is essential right now.



Praying the Beatitudes, and becoming intimately familiar with the Sermon on the Mount will guard our hearts.



Stay focused. Be Patience. Engage in one-on-one acts of care, service, and advocacy.




Recommended Resources




Postcards from Babylon: The American Church in Exile, by Brian Zahnd.



When Everything's On Fire: Faith Forged From the Ashes, by Brian Zahnd.



Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God: The Scandalous Truth of the Very Good News, by Brian Zahnd.



A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel, by Dr. Bradley Jersak.



A More Christlike Word: Reading Scripture the Emmaus Way, by Dr. Bradley Jersak.



A More Christlike Way: A More Beautiful Faith, by Dr. Bradley Jersak.



Rooted (In): Thriving in Connection with God, Yourself, and Others, by Susan Carson.









The Patient Ferment of the Early Church: The Improbable Rise of Christianity in the Roman Empire, by Alan Kreider.



The Brothers Karamazov, Dostoevsky



"The Grand Inquisitor" Filmed performance on Youtube.



The Ladder of the Beatitudes, by Jim Forest.



Beatitudes: When Mountain Meets Valley, by Ron Dart.



Are We Done Fighting: Building Understanding in a World of Hate and Division, by Matthew Legge.



Direct support for Mercy Aiken, a peacemaker in Palestine.









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More about My Conversation Partners



Susan Carson



Susan is an author, speaker, podcaster, pray-er, and lifelong unlearner. She's the founder and director of Roots&Branches Network, a listening and healing prayer ministry in Cincinnati, Ohio. With her team, she helps people encounter God in ways that transform and restore.



Find Susan Here




Website: https://www.susancarson.net/

Episode 057 - Empathy Isn't a Sin; It's Holy Dynamite (With Felicia Murrell)



Once again, influential Christian leaders are declaring empathy a sin. One influential Reformed theologian calls empathy "Counterfeit compassion" and names it "the greatest rhetorical tool of manipulation in the 21st century." For people whose central ethic is to love the neighbor as we love ourselves, this seems an odd hill to die on. Why is this happening? Well, when you look behind the scenes, the answer is pretty obvious. Empathy has the power to blow up hierarchical power dynamics.







Show Notes



In this conversation, we explore empathy, its significance in spiritual growth, and why certain Christian leaders (from a very particular theological perspective) are warning Christians away from empathy.Note: We had significant technical difficulties recording this, but the conversation was so good that I wanted to do my best to share it with you. The audio has been cleaned up as much as I can, and I have provided carefully edited captions on the video and a full transcription for you.



Takeaways




Empathy is about staying present to pain without being overwhelmed and actively bearing witness to others' emotional experiences.



Empathy differs from sympathy in that it connects us as equals.



Empathy is essential for healthy human relationships.



The accusation of empathy as a sin comes from hierarchical systems because empathy naturally opens the door to seeing how systems of domination and control are exploitative.



Personal healing is necessary for developing empathy so that we can face our selves truthfully, but empathy moves beyond personal feelings into tangible action that changes the work around us, including the systems we live within.



Empathy is a key aspect of following the way of Jesus.




Mentioned Resources




AND: The Restorative Power of Love in an Either/Or World (Felicia Murrell)



Atlas of the Heart: Mapping Meaningful Connection and the Language of Human Experience (Brené Brown)



All About Love: New Visions (bell hooks)









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More about My Conversation Partner



Felicia Murrell is a spiritual companion, speaker, certified master life coach, and former ordained pastor with over twenty years of church leadership experience. She's an author and serves the publishing industry as a freelance copy editor. With a deep understanding of what it means to be human, Felicia is dedicated to empowering individuals to embrace who they already are and who Love is inviting them to be.



Find Felicia Here




Website: https://feliciamurrell.com/



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/felicia.murrell.9



Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hellofelicia_murrell/



Threads: https://www.threads.net/@hellofelicia_murrell




Today's Sponsor




Walking Otherward - My new book! Please pre-order it now. This is a 40-day devotional following the final weeks of Jesus' life and inviting us to exchange our natural self-centered, ego-defending ambition for the other-centered, co-suffering way love Love.








Transcription

Episode 056 - When the Marginalized Are Our Prophets (With Jenai Auman)



The person who truly understands "what's going on" in any room is often not the one in charge. Instead, it's usually those on the margins—individuals whose lives and survival depend on recognizing the hidden structures of power—who see things most clearly. In her new book, Jenai Auman shares her experiences as a Filipina-American woman in the Evangelical church in the American South and challenges us to adopt a more inclusive way of being.







Show Notes




Othered: Finding Belonging with the God Who Pursues the Hurt, Harmed & Marginalized



The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, Johnson, et. al.



Lisa Oakley, UK Spiritual Abuse Researcher





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More about My Conversation Partner



Jenai Auman is a Filipina-American writer, artist, & storyteller living in Houston, TX with her husband and two boys. Drawing on her years of church ministry experience, education, and trauma-related training, she writes on healing, hope, and the way forward for those who have experienced spiritual abuse and religious trauma. Her work has been featured on Christianity Today’s Better Samaritan Blog, She Reads Truth, and The Fallow House. Her people are those who feel “othered” and unwelcome in traditional Christian spaces. As a trauma recovery-focused spiritual director/companion, she also serves as a story-holder & space-maker.




Find Jenai at https://www.jenaiauman.com/



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jenaiauman



Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jenaiauman




Today's Sponsor




Not Just One More Thing: Spiritual Growth for Busy People - a ten-week on-demand course to help you move into a practical spirituality that fits into your busy life.








Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:00Hey friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 56: When the Marginalized Are Our Prophets.



THIS WEEK'S SPONSORToday's podcast is made possible by Not Just One More Thing: Spiritual Growth for Busy People. Is it possible to grow spiritually in the midst of a busy life? You're a follower of Jesus, but you're starting to wonder if you're really following? That's not a question about belief; it's a question about trajectory. Are you really going somewhere? And not just to heaven someday, maybe, whatever that means, but now.



You want to grow and mature spiritually, and that's why you listen to this podcast. But your life is full, and it's fast-paced. You want to slow down, but you're not sure how. Life is busy and full of obligations and demands time and energy. And you can't opt out of most of that stuff.



When you think about spiritual maturity, you think of maybe retired people who have hours to sit around reading their Bibles or volunteering at church and praying, or maybe monks who live in a quiet cloister where they can think big thoughts about God all day long, but that's not your life. Do you wonder if it's even possible to grow spiritually in the midst of the busy life you have? Well, it is.



Being spiritual when you're on vacation or when you have a lot of free time on your hands is easy. That's when you have all the time in the world for reading and...

Episode 054 - A Better Place Than Here (With Jennifer Knapp)



What would you learn if you had the opportunity to go back and revisit your spiritual journey of twenty-five years ago? What if that experience happened in community, with folks who were there with you, when it happened? What would you learn? How are you different? What losses and what growth would you notice? The release of Kansas 25, a re-recording of her award-winning album, Kansas, gave singer songwriter, Jennifer Knapp, just that experience.







Show Notes




Get Kansas 25

Digital, CD & Vinyl



Streaming on all major services.







Scroll down for a full transcript of this episode.



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More about My Conversation Partner



Jennifer Knapp is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, author, speaker, and advocate whose two-decade career has significantly impacted the music industry. With over one million albums sold from her first three releases—"Kansas" (1998), "Lay It Down" (2000), and "The Way I Am" (2001)—Knapp achieved Gold certification for "Kansas" and earned four Dove Awards along with two Grammy nominations. Originating from Kansas, she has performed globally alongside artists like Jars of Clay and participated in the Lilith Fair Tour in 1999 and 2010. Known for her poignant exploration of human experiences and spirituality, Knapp took a seven-year hiatus in 2002, returning with the album "Letting Go" in 2010, which debuted at No. 73 on the Billboard Hot 200 Chart. Beyond music, she is a pioneer in LGBTQ+ advocacy within Christian communities, being the first major artist to openly discuss her identity, which sparked national dialogue and led to appearances on platforms like Larry King Live and TEDx. In 2012, she founded Inside Out Faith, a non-profit organization advocating for LGBTQ+ rights in faith contexts. Recently, she completed a master’s degree in theological studies at Vanderbilt Divinity School, reinforcing her commitment to social justice through music and advocacy. Jennifer Knapp’s diverse talents and dedication to inclusivity continue to inspire audiences worldwide.




Find Jenn at https://jenniferknapp.com



Facebook: JenniferKnappMusic



Instagram: @JenniferKnappMusic




Today's Sponsor




The Apprenticehip Notes Newsletter - Monthly-ish writing just for you on spiritual growth in the other-centered, co-suffering way of Jesus.








Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:00Hey, friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth, following the way of Jesus. This is episode 55: A Better Place Than Here.



THIS WEEK'S SPONSORToday's podcast is made possible by The Writers Advance. I'm a writer. I love supporting writers. Five years ago, I created The Writer's Advance. It's exactly what I needed--A writing weekend that has been crafted to be precisely what writers need to push forward their current project. It's not about networking or listening to experts speak or trying desperately to get an agent or editor to notice you. Nope. It's about writing and reconnecting with why writing matters to you.



At the end of every writing weekend, I send all the participants an anonymous survey to get feedback so that I can improve the experience. You can read their words on the event website, but I wanted to just read a couple of their comments to you right now,

Episode 054 - Knowing the Past to Make a Better Future (With Sarah Sanderson)



Do you know the hidden history of the place where you live? If we want to be part of God’s work of bringing restoration and liberation, we can’t ignore what’s happened in the past. Telling this truth is the only way to get to healing.







Show Notes




Get Sarah's book:

The Place We Make: Breaking the Legacy of Legalized Hate







Other Books Mentioned:

Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance and Repair by Duke Kwon & Greg Thompson



The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church's Complicity in Racism by Jemar Tisby



Dear White Peacemakers: Dismantling Racism with Grit and Grace by Osheta Moore







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More about My Conversation Partner



Sarah L. Sanderson is a writer, speaker, and teacher. Her writing has appeared in PBS Newshour, Blackpast, Christianity Today, and various other journals. She’s a thoughtful human, a justice-minded Christian, and a skilled writer.




Find Sarah at www.SarahLSanderson.com



Threads: @sarahlsandersonwriter



Facebook: sarah.sanderson



Instagram: @sarahlsandersonwriter




Today's Sponsor




The Apprenticehip Notes Newsletter - Monthly-ish writing just for you on spiritual growth in the other-centered, co-suffering way of Jesus.








Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:00Do you know the hidden history of the place where you live? If we want to be part of God's work to bring restoration and liberation, we can't ignore what's happened in the past, as much as we'd like to. Telling this truth is the only way to get to healing. Hey, friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 54. Knowing the past to make a better future.



THIS WEEK'S SPONSOR



Before we start, I'd like to tell you about Apprenticeship Notes. Apprenticeship Notes is my new email newsletter. What is this? Why should you subscribe? Why on earth would you want one more newsletter in your inbox? I'm glad you asked. Social media has just stopped working well for many people. Our social media feeds used to be spaces where we had some control. We could choose to follow people who are interesting to us. We could connect with friends, we could learn from the experience and wisdom of other people. For well more than 10 years, my social media feeds, particularly Twitter, were a significant benefit to me, especially as a writer.



But nowadays, in most cases our social media feeds are filled with ads, sponsored posts that are ads but don't look like ads, and influencers trying to sell us on their latest master course. And even when we find and follow the people we want to hear more from, the black-box algorithms determine whether or not we get to see what they have to say. And usually what the algorithm shows us is just stuff that gets us ramped up. That means more anger, more division. It's a mess.



I've been slowly transitioning away from using social media as the main avenue for communicating about my writing. It's really scary. I can't even express to you how big of a change this is.

Episode 053 - What if the Bible isn't perfect? (With Zach Hunt)



There are many debates and disagreements within Christianity. Behind most of these, you’ll find one very significant issue. How we read the Bible. The way we read the Bible and what we believe about how the Bible came to be directly gets at what we believe about God. Can Christianity work if the Bible isn't perfect?







Show Notes




Get Zach's books:

Godbreathed: What it Really Means for the Bible to Be Divinely Inspired



Unraptured: How End Times Theology Gets It Wrong











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More about My Conversation Partner



Zack Hunt has spent the last decade writing about the interplay of faith and politics in the public sphere on his eponymous blog, Substack, and Patheos as well as contributing articles to multiple publications. He’s also made appearances in Rolling Stone, The Boston Globe, Huffington Post, and various other media outlets.




Find Zack at www.TheWayIsTheWay.org



Threads: @zaackhunt



Facebook: @zlhunt



Instagram: @zaackhunt




Today's Sponsor




Journaling for Spiritual Growth - Six weeks to build a habit that fosters spiritual and emotional maturity. This little book is a generous and hospitable guide to establishing a sustainable spiritual practice. Try it now.




More from Marc




Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting into my email list.



Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide



Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.








Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:00Hey friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 53. What if the Bible isn't perfect?



TODAY'S SPONSOR



Today's podcast is made possible by Journaling for Spiritual Growth. This is my new book. It launched in November of 2022, so it's just a few months old, but it's already finding its people. And that is so exciting to me, especially since this is a book with a pretty small target audience. I heard from one woman who grew up in the church, and her comment after reading Journaling For Spiritual Growth was how relieved she felt. For her, this little book helped her to untangle her picture of God and find a healthy way to pursue spiritual growth. I teared up, listening to her.



Here's an Amazon review that just moved me. "I wish this book had been around when I was at the start of my deconstructing process and trying to form a new connection to my last shred of spiritual practice with the Bible. After reading this book, I can tell you it is something special. I found this book clear, focused, and transparent in its intentions. It became my friend in a way as I explored the prompts. It makes room for one's personal story and experience. Give it a try. I hope it gracefully surprises you as it did me." As an author, I could not ask for higher praise than that.

Episode 052 - Childlike Faith vs. Childish Faith (With Pastor Mandy Smith)



Often the church seems in a panic to avoid the influence of culture, but what if the church is already fully bought into the assumptions of culture? Western culture assumes that strength, leadership, and being right are the way of success. Does the way of Jesus calls us to something different?.







Show Notes




Get Mandy's books:

The Vulnerable Pastor: How Human Limitations Empower our Ministry



Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith beyond the Baggage of Western Culture





Mandy's Website: www.TheWayIsTheWay.org





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More about My Conversation Partners



Mandy Smith is a pastor, author, and speaker. She pastors St. Lucia Uniting Church, in St. Lucia, in Queensland, Australia. She's a regular contributor to Christianity Today and Missio Alliance.




Find Mandy at www.TheWayIsTheWay.org



Twitter: @MandySmithHopes



Facebook: Mandy Smith




Today's Sponsor




The Untangled Heart Course - We don’t need to live with fear that our emotions will overwhelm us. We can learn to experience them in a way that allows us access to the wisdom they carry!




More from Marc




Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting into my email list.



Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide



Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.








Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:00Hey friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 52. Childlike faith is better than childish faith.



TODAY'S SPONSOR



Marc Schelske 0:18Today's podcast is made possible by the Untangled Workshop. Some of us don't do too well with emotions, ours, other peoples'. It doesn't matter. For some of us, they're confusing. For some of us, they're overwhelming. For some of us, it feels like we live at the whim of emotions that are explosively beyond our control. Others of us can't seem to feel anything at all, even when it seems like we should.



For most of my life, emotions were a deep struggle for me. I had no idea how much my early childhood trauma had shaped the way I experienced my emotions. I just knew that my emotions, other people's emotions, anyone's emotions made me uncomfortable. Things are much better for me now, but I remember what that ache was like. And that's why I teamed up with a skilled trauma therapist, Byron Kehler, to create The Untangled Workshop, a roadmap for understanding and navigating our emotions.



We filmed this training live, and then created an on-demand video course that you can watch on your own time and review as needed. In this workshop, you'll learn why we often disconnect from our emotions, how our emotions serve a vital role in living a fulfilled life, and what's happening in our brain and body when we feel an emotion. In addition, we'll teach you a simple to understand roadmap for how to...

Episode 051 - Faith when you don't Feel Faithful (With Ben Stenke & Matt Tebbe)



The life of a follower of Jesus is not about assent to an idea, or rigorous attention to a life of religious activity. Matt Tebbe says, "There aren't two things: faith and action. There's just one thing: Faithful Action." We discuss.







Show Notes




Get the book: Having the Mind of Christ



Gravity Leadership's Excellent Podcast: The Gravity Leadership Podcast



Gravity Cohorts: https://gravityleadership.com/academy/





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Ben Sternke is an Anglican priest, author, and leadership trainer. He's one of the co-founders of Gravity Leadership and pastors at The Table Indy, in Indianapolis, Indiana.




Find Jonathan at www.GravityLeadership.com



Twitter: @bensternke



Facebook: Ben Sternke




Matt Tebbe is also an Anglican priest, author, and leadership trainer. He's the other co-founder of Gravity Leadership and pastors at The Table Indy, in Indianapolis, Indiana.




Find Matt at www.GravityLeadership.com



Twitter: Matt Tebbe



Facebook: Matt Tebbe




Today's Sponsor




Journaling for Spiritual Growth - Yes! My new book is out and in pre-order mode. Head over and check it out and maybe order a copy or three.




More from Marc




Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting into my email list.



Untangled Heart Course Online.



Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide



Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.








Transcription



Marc Schelske 0:00Hey friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 51: "Faith when you don't feel faithful."



TODAY'S SPONSOR



Today's podcast is made possible by Journaling for Spiritual Growth. This is my new book. It launched in November of 2022. So it's just a few months old, but it's already finding its people. And that is really exciting to me, especially since I knew going into it that this book had a pretty small target audience.



A few weeks ago, I was talking to a woman who read the book and had grown up in the church, and her comment after reading Journaling for Spiritual Growth was how relieved she felt. For her, this little book helped her untangle her picture of God, and find a healthier way to pursue spiritual growth. I teared up, listening to her.



Here's an Amazon review I want to share with you this really moved me: "I wish this book had been around when I was at the start of my deconstruction process, trying to form a new connection to my last shred of spiritual practice with the Bible. After reading this book, I can tell you it is something special. I found the book clear, focused, and transparent in all its intentions. It became my friend in a way as I explored the pr...

Episode 050 - Letting God Change Our Minds —or, A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Devotional (With Jonathan Puddle)



What do you do with an opportunity that comes your way that isn't right for you? That happened for Jonathan Puddle, and he turned into something beautiful.







Show Notes




Jonathan's new devotional: Mornings With God: Daily Bible Devotional for Men



Jonathan's first devotional: You are Enough: Learning to Love Yourself the Way God Loves You





Scroll down for a full transcript of this episode.



You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube.








More about My Conversation Partner



Kevin Makins is a writer, speaker, and maker of things, who is also just a regular pastor, serving at Eucharist Church, in downtown Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.




Find Jonathan at www.jonathanpuddle.com



Twitter: @jonathanpuddle



Instagram: @jonathanpuddle



Facebook: Jonathan Puddle




Today's Sponsor




Journaling for Spiritual Growth - Yes! My new book is out and in pre-order mode. Head over and check it out and maybe order a copy or three.




More from Marc




Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.



Untangled Heart Course Online.



Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide



Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.








Transcription



Marc Schelske  0:00  



So are we willing to let God change our minds? Hey, friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, And this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 50. When God changes our minds, or maybe a better title: A weird thing happened on the way to the devotional book. You'll see what I mean.



TODAY’S SPONSOR



Today's podcast is made possible by Journaling For Spiritual Growth. Yes, finally! My new book has at long last made it through all of the hurdles of writing and editorial and revision and design and all that stuff. Pre-orders are live right now. And on November 15, it will be available to you. I'm so excited about this.



Now, if you follow me online, or you're a regular podcast listener, you already know I'm a big advocate for practical, doable, intentional practices that contribute to personal and spiritual growth. And that's what this is about. Journaling has been a part of my spiritual practice for about 30 years now. And working with lots of people as a pastor, and in other capacities, for more than two decades, I've seen that for many people, journaling is the most consistently transformative practice. But I've also seen a lot of people try journaling and then give up. A lot more are intimidated about starting. It feels like a really big deal.



So, I wanted to offer an easy-to-follow process that can help a person start a flexible, gracious, sustainable journaling practice that can serve over the long haul. That's what this little book is about. It's a day-by-day guide that will, over the course of six weeks, help you set your expectations, lay the groundwork,

Episode 049 - Church, Stop Acting Like a Hot Topic—or, Building a Church People Actually Want To Go To (With Kevin Makins)



Why would anyone bother to go to church? I don't mean why would Christians bother. I mean, if someone outside of the church was thinking about getting involved, why would they? What might it look like to build a church that people attend because it's meaningful to them, not out of obligation or habit? What would a church look like that was truly loved by its neighborhood?







Show Notes




The Nones: Where they came from, Who They Are, and Where They Are Going, by Ryan Borge



Article: OK, Millennial. Don't Blame Boomers for the Decline of Religion in America, by Ryan Borge



Kevin's Book: Why Would Anyone Go to Church?









Scroll down for a full transcript of this episode.



You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube.








More about My Conversation Partner



Kevin Makins is a writer, speaker, and maker of things, who is also just a regular pastor, serving at Eucharist Church, in downtown Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.




Find Kevin at www.KevinMakins.com



Learn more about his church: https://eucharistchurch.ca/



See Kevin's short films about being human and his 60-min one-man show, "Holy Shift."



Twitter: https://twitter.com/kevinmakins



Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevinmakins/



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kevinmakinsstuff




Today's Sponsor




My Summer Inflation Sale - I am trying to raise some funds this summer to make up for a shortfall in income. If you've been thinking about buying anything I make, now is a great time! These sale prices will be active through August 1st.




More from Marc




Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.



Untangled Heart Course Online.



Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide



Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.








Transcription



Marc Schelske  0:00  



Hey friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske and this is The Apprenticeship Way, A podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 49. Church stop acting like a hot topic! Or maybe a better title is "Building a church people actually want to go to."



TODAY’S SPONSOR



Today's podcast is made possible by My Summer Inflation Sale. You heard me! Life has gotten expensive, hasn't it? Gas, groceries, it's all a bit much. Now, Christina, my wife, is a teacher. And so the normal gig is that our family is without a second paycheck for a couple of months every summer. In past years, we've budgeted to cover that. But this year, the dramatic increase in prices of essential things has just outpaced our budget. So I'm looking for some extra income. So if you've ever thought about buying something I make, now is an excellent time. So what could you get? Any and all of my books, my online courses, and of course for some people, there's the work that I do to support writers.

Episode 048 - Empathy Is Not a Sin (With Becky Castle Miller)



Recently a number of Christian leaders and teachers have been making waves saying that empathy is a sin--or at least something that good Christians need to be very careful with. Why would they say this? What do they get out of it? And why should you be concerned if you hear this line of thinking?







Show Notes



Following King Jesus by Scot McKnight and Becky Castle MillerCheck out Seminary Now, where Becky works.One source on Calvin's letter justifying the murder of Servetus: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc8.iv.xvi.xxii.html







Download a full transcript here or scroll to the bottom of the page for a full transcript of this episode.You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube.







More about My Conversation Partner



Becky Castle Miller writes and speaks on emotional, mental, and spiritual health in the church. She recently graduated from Northern Seminary with a master's in New Testament Context, studying with Dr. Scot McKnight. Her discipleship workbook with Dr. McKnight is called Following King Jesus. She is working on a new book about Jesus's emotions. She, her husband, their five kids, and cat returned to the US after living in the Netherlands for eight years, where she worked at an international church. She is presently the Program Manager for Seminary Now.



Becky writes on Medium: https://medium.com/wholeheartedTwitter: @bcastlemillerFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/beckycastlemillerblog/



Today's Sponsor



The Wisdom of Your Heart - This book debunks several myths about emotions that are often taught in church, presents a healthier theology of emotions, and our best current understanding of what emotions mean when we have them, and how we can learn to hear wisdom in them.



More from Marc



Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.Untangled Heart Course Online. Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step GuideSubscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.







Transcription



Marc Schelske  0:00  



Hey friends, I'm Marc Alen Schelske and this is The Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 48. Empathy is not a sin--and anyone who tells you so is trying to control you.



TODAY’S SPONSOR



Today's podcast is made possible by The Wisdom of Your Heart. We're talking about empathy today and that means we're going to touch on the world of our emotions. This is a subject close to my heart. I spent a lot of my life deeply disconnected from my emotions and it costs me gravely. You can hear the story of my recovery in my book, The Wisdom of Your Heart: Discovering the God-given Power and Purpose of Your Emotions. In this book, I also debunk several myths about emotions that are often taught in church, I present a theology of emotions, and I talk about our best current understanding of what emotions mean when we have them and how we can learn to hear wisdom in them. So, if today's conversation is helpful, or if you're unpacking difficult emotions from your past, or bad emotional teaching from the church, I invite you to check out The Wisdom of Your Heart. It's available in all the book places. Learn more at www.TheWisdomOfYourHeart.com.

Episode 047 - Don't Choose Shallow Formation (With Rich Vellodas)



Does our faith enable us to be “a good gift” to our neighbors, even the neighbors we disagree with? Many Christians, it seems, are living in ways that contradict the core ethic of our faith loving our neighbors as ourselves. What is going on? It seems like we are witnessing a mass failure of discipleship. Why is this happening and what can be done about it?







Show Notes




The Deeply Formed Life: Five Transformational Values to Root us in the Way of Jesus by Rich Vellodas



Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Pete Scazerro



Rich Vellodas preaches about Racism as it is manifested in human structures and institutions. Worth your time.









Download a full transcript here or scroll to the bottom of the page for a full transcript of this episode.



You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube.








More about Rich Vellodas



Rich Villodas is the Brooklyn-born lead pastor of New Life Fellowship, a large multiracial church with more than seventy-five countries represented in Elmhurst, Queens. Rich holds a Master of Divinity from Alliance Theological Seminary. He enjoys reading widely, preaching, and writing on contemplative spirituality, justice-related matters, and the art of preaching. He's been married to Rosie since 2006 and they have two beautiful children, Karis and Nathan.




His Website: www.RichVillodas.com



Twitter: @richvillodas



Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rvillodas




Today's Sponsor




The Writers Advance - A unique twice-a-year writers weekend that's focused on writing. No break-out sessions. No listening to experts talk about what worked for them. No networking. No social media. Just a small group of writers encouraging each other to write. One-on-one coaching and group feedback available. Just a few spots remain for the April weekend.




More from Marc




Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.



The Wisdom of Your Heart: Discovering the God-given Purpose and Power of Your Emotions.



Untangled Heart Course Online.



Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide



Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.








Transcription



Marc Schelske  0:00  



Does our faith enable us to be a good gift to our neighbors? Even the neighbors we disagree with? Hey friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske, and this is the Apprenticeship Way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is episode 47. Don't choose shallow formation.



TODAY’S SPONSOR



Today's podcast is made possible by The Writers Advance. I'm a writer, and I love supporting writers. Three years ago, I created the writer's advance. It's a writer's weekend. And it's been crafted to be exactly what writers need to push forward their current project. It's not about networking or listening to experts speak or trying desperately to get an agent or an editor to notice you. It is about writing and reconnecting with why writing matters to you.

Episode 046 - A More Beautiful Deconstruction (With Dr. Bradley Jersak)



Deconstruction is everywhere. People are doing it. Some leaders are fighting it. Some people are excited by it. Some people are terrified of it. Is it just a trendy new word for leaving the church? No. It's a process that's necessary for spiritual maturity--and how we think about it matters.







Show Notes




A More Christlike God: A More Beautiful Gospel



A More Christlike Way: A More Beautiful Faith



A More Christlike Word: Reading Scripture the Emmaus Way









Download a full transcript here or scroll to the bottom of the page for a full transcript of this episode.



You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube.








More about Dr. Bradley Jersak



Dr. Bradley Jersak is an author of multiple books. He's a professor of theology and the Dean of theology and culture at St. Stephen's University, New Brunswick. He serves as a reader and monastery preacher at an orthodox monastery, and he lives in Abbotsford, British Columbia with Eden his wife. Let's talk deconstruction.




His Website: www.BradJersak.com



Clarion: Journal for Religion, Peace & Justice: www.clarion-journal.com/



Twitter: @bradjersak



Facebook: www.facebook.com/bradley.jersak




Today's Sponsor




The Wisdom Of Your Heart - A unique twice-a-year writers weekend that's focused on writing. No break-out sessions. No listening to experts talk about what worked for them. No networking. No social media. Just a small group of writers encouraging each other to write. One-on-one coaching and group feedback available.




More from Marc




Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.



The Wisdom of Your Heart: Discovering the God-given Purpose and Power of Your Emotions.



Untangled Heart Course Online.



Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide



Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.








Transcription



Marc Schelske  0:00  



Is deconstruction just a trendy word for backsliding or leaving Christianity? No. deconstruction is a necessary part of faith and how we think about it matters. Hey friends, I'm Marc Alan Schelske and this is the apprenticeship way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is Episode 46. A more beautiful deconstruction.



TODAY’S SPONSOR



Today's podcast is sponsored by The Wisdom Of Your Heart. Imagine having two legs, two strong, healthy, functional legs, but then your parents and your teachers, maybe a pastor of the church who grew up in told you that in order to be a good person, a strong person, someone that really does what God wants, you need to only ever use one of those legs. Now you're a kid, you believe what trusted people tell you. And so you do it. You try living life on just one leg, you hop around, you end up sometimes losing your balance, you get pretty bruised up, but you know that you're doing what God wants. So you're being strong and good,

Episode 045 - Let's Normalize Being Wrong (With Matt Tebbe)



I grew up in a faith tradition where being right was essential. It's what kept us in community. It's what we thought honored God. For many other reasons--temperament, trauma, and even privilege--being right became an identity issue for me. Then I heard Matt Tebbe suggest that we need to normalize being wrong. For some of us this is the medicine we need.







Show Notes



"Let's normalize being wrong. Make Repentance Great Again" - Matt TebbeJohn 10:18Philippians 2







Download a full transcript here or scroll to the bottom of the page for a full transcript of this episode.You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube.







More about Matt Tebbe



Rev. Matt Tebbe (MDiv, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) has been a coach, communicator and consultant with churches in North America since 2011. He has experience as a youth pastor, a bi-vocational church planter, and working on a team at a large church to transition it from a Sunday-centric worship service to a discipleship and mission paradigm. He has written for Leadership Journal, Shattered Magazine, and contributed to the book “What Pastors Wish Their Congregations Knew” by Kurt Fredrickson and Cameron Lee. He’s also been a featured writer at Missio Alliance and The V3 Movement. He co-founded Gravity Leadership, and is planting a church (The Table) in the northeast suburbs of Indianapolis, where he and his wife Sharon live with their children Deacon and Celeste.



His Church: www.thetableindy.orgGravity Leadership: www.gravityleadership.comTwitter: @matttebbeFacebook: www.facebook.com/matttebbe



Today's Sponsor



The Writers Advance Weekend - A unique twice-a-year writers weekend that's focused on writing. No break-out sessions. No listening to experts talk about what worked for them. No networking. No social media. Just a small group of writers encouraging each other to write. One-on-one coaching and group feedback available.



More from Marc



Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.The Wisdom of Your Heart: Discovering the God-given Purpose and Power of Your Emotions.Untangled Heart Course Online. Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step GuideSubscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.







Transcription



Marc Schelske  0:00  



Did you know you don't have to correct other people? Did you know you can be wrong, and the world won't end? Hey, friends, I'm Marc Alen Schelske. This is the apprenticeship way, a podcast about spiritual growth following the way of Jesus. This is Episode 45. Let's normalize being wrong. 



TODAY’S SPONSOR



Now, before we jump into that conversation, I'd like to tell you that today's podcast is made possible by The Writers Advance. I'm a writer, I write this podcast. I write blog posts. I write sermons, I've written three books. I've got two manuscripts in the oven right now. I think I've written something close to a million words at this point. And all of that writing, I have learned that there really is only one significant obstacle to writing just one. Life. Life and all its business, obligations, responsibilities, chores, people who need you to do stuff right now. And all that stuff, it takes time.

Episode 044 - Your Suffering is Sacred (With K.J. Ramsey)



Are you allergic to happy clappy Christianity? There’s a good reason for thats. Churches that ignore suffering are ignoring Jesus. Many churches are not good at holding suffering. People who find themselves in extended suffering — maybe living with depression or anxiety, other mental health issues, or even invisible chronic illness — sometimes find there’s not a place for them in the church. In this episode, I talk with KJ Ramsey who has particular experience with this, and we talk about the gospel according to suffering.







Show Notes



"There needs to be more room in the Body of Christ to stand in the ground of our sorrow and see our suffering Savior." - KJR"We prefer to keep death out of sight and any reminders of the decay in our bodies or being less than dazzling, we want to hide and pretend it doesn't exist but the good news is that's not the way of Jesus." -KJR"If you're in a church where they say 'This table is for all,' but you're not actually included, leave. You don't need to stay in a community that crushes you...You are not faithless if you need to walk away." - KJR"To deconstruct the 2x4s of a house that was never actually God's house is a gift that you give to your future self." -KJR







Follow KJ Ramsey & Get her Book



K.J. Ramsey (BA, Covenant College, MA, Denver Seminary) is a licensed professional counselor, writer, and recovering idealist who believes sorrow and joy coexist. She is the author of This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers, and her writing has been published in Christianity Today, RELEVANT, The Huffington Post, Fathom Magazine, Health Central, and more on the integration of theology, psychology, and spiritual formation. She and her husband live in Denver, Colorado.



At her website: http://www.kjramsey.comInstagram: @kjramseywritesTwitter: @kjramseywritesFacebook: @kjramseywritesGet her book, This Too Shall Last: Finding Grace When Suffering Lingers







OTHER LINKS



You can also watch and share the video version on Youtube.



Today's Sponsor



Untangle Workbook: A guided journaling process for untangling emotions and finding wisdom - If you’re like me, you might not have really been equipped to face difficult feelings. Distraction and denial were my favorite emotional tools. Projects. Video Games. TV. Social Media. More Work. Anything to not feel the discomfort. Learning how to sit with my feelings and understand what they really meant has been life changing. I wanted to share that with people I work with, so I wrote this little journal. The first 30 pages teach you the basics of how emotions work in our bodies and our brains, and how make meaning out of all of that. Then you learn a step-by-step template that guides you through processing an emotional reaction.



Find My Stuff



Get The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer and Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World - This little book is free for you by opting in to my email list.The Wisdom of Your Heart: Discovering the God-given Purpose and Power of Your Emotions.Untangled Heart Course Online. Discovering your Authentic Core Values: A Step-by-step Guide







Subscribe to my Email List. You'll get a free copy of a little book called The Anchor Prayer: A Prayer & Process for Remaining Grounded in a Chaotic World.Subscribe to The Apprenticeship Way on iTunes and all other podcasting apps.Find a video version on my Youtube Channel.

I grew up in a church community where finding out God’s will was a big deal. Imagine the horror of living your whole life and then discovering you had missed God’s will? So, we spent a lot of time and energy trying to get clear on God’s will for us. I don’t think our urgency was warranted. Today I want to share with you my stress-free guide for finding God’s will.

I grew up in a church community where finding out God’s will was a big deal. Imagine the horror of living your whole life and then discovering you had missed God’s will? So, we spent a lot of time and energy trying to get clear on God’s will for us. I don’t think our urgency was warranted. Today I want to share with you my stress-free guide for finding God’s will.