Refine Labs’ Stacking Growth roundtable, hosted by Matt Sciannella with guest Ky Shaw of DemandOS, dives deep into performance marketing plays that generate real pipeline fast. The discussion covers tactical frameworks for aligning with sales, running direct-response ads, and launching actionable campaigns that drive measurable results in B2B environments.
Topics Covered
-How to build pipeline through performance marketing plays that actually work
-Aligning marketing with sales via pipeline activation projects
-Structuring high-intent offers for low-brand-recognition companies
-Best practices for direct-response advertising and manual bidding on LinkedIn
-Frameworks for upstream problem-solving and content offer creation
-Designing tools, calculators, and incentivized demos that convert
-Evaluating signal strength and intent from leads
-Examples of competitive and industry-specific campaign execution
Questions This Video Helps Answer
-How can marketing and sales collaborate effectively to activate pipeline quickly?
-What performance marketing plays are working best in B2B right now?
-How can you design content offers that signal strong buying intent?
-What’s the right way to use incentivized demos without attracting low-quality leads?
-How can marketers tailor campaigns for competitive versus novel markets?
Megan Bowen was featured on the most recent episode of Tech Impact, hosted by Evan Kirstel.
We're excited today to release the full interview, including extra questions that weren't aired in the TV segment. She touches on the new era of buying behavior, our Brand, Demand, Expand strategy, and how AI has impacted the marketing agency landscape.
Want to learn how to thrive in this new era of marketing? Listen in!
Called to Action is back with Sidney Waterfall to walk us through her journey as a marketer blending qualitative data with quantitative insights, and how that can help bridge the attribution gap.
Sydney shares her journey and emphasizes the power of qualitative data, like self-reported attribution, and how it complements quantitative analytics to foster business growth. Her unique approach lies in blending both data sets to inform strategic decisions and improve marketing functions. Sydney discusses significant career transitions, emphasizing pivotal moments that shaped her marketing philosophy. Furthermore, she'll share the role of intuition in making strategic marketing decisions and how qualitative feedback can validate gut feelings effectively. Throughout the episode, Sydney illustrates the importance of adapting to changes in marketing paradigms, such as the integration of AI and the growing importance of voice-of-customer data.
Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #measurement #metrics #sales #marketingalignment #data #attribution
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Our CEO Megan Bowen was a guest on Charles Gaudet's Predictable Profits podcast to talk about the outdated funnel and how to market in the AI era.
From Predictable Profits: "If you’re still trying to grow your business with traditional funnels and wondering why your capture, create, convert demand strategy isn’t working, you’re about to discover why those old-school tactics are completely dead. In this episode, I sit down with one of the very few people who actually gets it – Megan Bowen – and we dive deep into the evolution of buyer behavior from the analog buying era all the way through to where we are now in the AI era. We explore why 96% of the buying process now happens before prospects ever talk to your sales team, and Megan breaks down her game-changing framework that’s helping B2B companies completely rethink how they approach demand generation. Trust me, you’re going to want to have a pen and paper handy for this one because we’re going beyond the surface-level funnel nonsense that everyone else is teaching.My guest today is Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs, and she’s someone I have tremendous respect for because she actually eats her own pudding. With over 20 years of experience building and scaling go-to-market teams across B2B industries – including companies that achieved IPOs and acquisitions – Megan co-founded Refine Labs in 2020 with a mission to completely change how B2B companies approach their go-to-market strategies. What I love about Megan is that her leadership philosophy isn’t some theoretical framework from a business book – it’s rooted in real-world experience as an individual contributor, people manager, and executive leader. She understands that without customers, you don’t have a business, and she’s laser-focused on creating the conditions for long-term relationships and meaningful results.KEY TAKEAWAYS:
Growing your business is hard, but it doesn’t have to be. In this podcast, we will be discussing top level strategies for both growing and expanding your business beyond seven figures.The show will feature a mix of pure content and expert interviews to present key concepts and fundamental topics in a variety of different formats. We believe that this format will enable our listeners to learn the most from the show, implement more in their businesses, and get real value out of the podcast. Enjoy the show.Please remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss any future episodes. Your support and reviews are important and help us to grow and improve the show."
Megan Bowen hosts ChampionHQ’s CEO Gianna Scorsone to cover Refine Labs’ Brand, Demand, Expand strategy.
They discuss how combining brand strength, creating demand, and expanding existing customer relationships can combat current market challenges, especially in the AI era. The conversation demystifies these pillars and offers practical, actionable insights into efficiently integrating them into a comprehensive marketing plan.
Listeners are introduced to advanced concepts such as leveraging customer advocacy to enrich demand-generation efforts and using AI to enhance matchmaking between prospects and existing clients. With insights from real-world applications, Megan and Gianna elucidate why businesses must align sales and marketing strategies and adopt a proactive stance on expanding through advocacy. The duo also addresses the significance of correct budgeting, emphasizing that while demand often receives adequate funding, both brand and expand need stronger financial backing to foster long-term profitability and growth.
Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #paidads #googleads #paidsearch #paidsocial #ctv #connectedtv
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Called to Action is back with Liam Moroney of Storybook marketing to walk us through his journey as a marketer focused on brand and storytelling. He gives his history, philosophy, and advice on how to change your leadership's mindset.
Liam draws from his extensive background in B2B marketing to share his experiences in navigating various industries, emphasizing the importance of moving from a 'growth at all costs' mindset to a more sustainable, brand-centric strategy. The conversation highlights key challenges faced by marketers in tech, especially in convincing stakeholders about the value of storytelling and brand awareness. Liam discusses how understanding the fundamentals of marketing and human behavior fosters better brand development and market reach. Stressing the significance of storytelling as a tool to improve brand recall and customer connection, Liam shares strategies for changing leadership mindsets resistant to traditional perceptions. This episode is rich with insights for marketers, challenging existing paradigms and encouraging more proactive approaches in achieving effective growth.
Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #measurement #metrics #sales #marketingalignment #storytelling #brandmarketing
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Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the full recording, including previously unreleased Q&A from the live audience, of the final summer event.
Dale presents a compelling case for revolutionizing how marketing investments are understood, measured, and communicated. This episode transforms complex financial details into digestible insights, revealing why relying solely on current period revenue versus cost fails to capture the true impact of marketing efforts.
Within this conversation, critical topics emerge around the technicalities of accurately quantifying the "R" (Revenue) and "I" (Investment) in marketing ROI. Dale dissects how traditional methods often overlook time lags between marketing initiatives and realized revenue, especially in B2B environments where extended sales cycles are norm. Through detailed examples, the episode guides listeners on associating past marketing efforts with current revenue, emphasizing the significance of contribution margin and proper attribution of marketing expenses. The discourse further unveils the misconception that brand marketing takes time to produce results, illustrating its immediate and lasting impact, and how historical brand efforts inflate future ROIs.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing
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Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the second part of the final event, and covers all of the specific calculations you need to know to accurately find your Marketing ROI.
Dale presents a compelling case for revolutionizing how marketing investments are understood, measured, and communicated. This episode transforms complex financial details into digestible insights, revealing why relying solely on current period revenue versus cost fails to capture the true impact of marketing efforts.
Within this conversation, critical topics emerge around the technicalities of accurately quantifying the "R" (Revenue) and "I" (Investment) in marketing ROI. Dale dissects how traditional methods often overlook time lags between marketing initiatives and realized revenue, especially in B2B environments where extended sales cycles are norm. Through detailed examples, the episode guides listeners on associating past marketing efforts with current revenue, emphasizing the significance of contribution margin and proper attribution of marketing expenses. The discourse further unveils the misconception that brand marketing takes time to produce results, illustrating its immediate and lasting impact, and how historical brand efforts inflate future ROIs.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing
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Matt Sciannella
Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the first part of the final event: covering where Marketing ROI fails, and digging into the problems with measuring Revenue.
Dale and Matt get into the conventional approaches to calculating marketing ROI, highlighting their limitations and presenting a more comprehensive framework. The discussion sets the stage for a robust understanding of marketing's true impact on a business's financial health.
Throughout the episode, Matt and Dale critique traditional metrics used by major platforms like Facebook, HubSpot, and Salesforce, arguing that these models fail to capture the real contributions of marketing efforts. They stress the importance of focusing on gross margins rather than revenue, and present a compelling argument for using contribution margin as a more accurate representation of marketing's ROI. The conversation also touches on the historical neglect of brand marketing in favor of performance marketing, particularly in the B2B sector, and the repercussions that this shift has had on long-term business value.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ROI #return #investment
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Evan Hughes hosts Matt Sciannella, Aaron Weekes, and Kyle Taylor to discuss how to integrate Connected TV (CTV) into paid media strategies, particularly for B2B companies.
With digital landscapes evolving, the conversation emphasizes the importance of leveraging CTV's unique opportunities for audience reach and targeted awareness. The experts provide a detailed discussion on how CTV not only complements traditional digital efforts but also stands out with its TV dominance, capturing audiences more effectively through non-skippable ads.
Throughout the session, the guests dig into the practical aspects of launching a successful CTV campaign. They address the initial budget allocation, common challenges in creative production, and measurement techniques that align with long-term brand objectives. As discussions progress, they highlight the unique advantages CTV offers compared to traditional online advertising, particularly through LinkedIn's platform, citing notable cost efficiencies and advanced targeting capabilities. This conversation serves as a comprehensive guide for marketers aiming to harness CTV's potential in enhancing brand visibility and driving engagement within their target market segments.
Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #paidads #googleads #paidsearch #paidsocial #ctv #connectedtv
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From Dreamdata:
"Things have changed over the last five years… and these are the core pillars you need to think about if you want to be successful as a company.
Amidst intense budget scrutiny, disruptive AI, and failing lead-generation tactics, B2B marketers must overhaul their strategies to survive and grow by shifting focus from capturing existing demand to strategically creating it for the future.
Speaking on a recent Attributed Podcast, Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs, broke down the strategy that she believes is now essential for survival and growth.
She argues that the "growth at all costs" era is definitively over, and in its place is a more sustainable, holistic go-to-market motion she calls the 'Brand. Demand. Expand.' framework.
She explains the specifics of each pillar, including the key metric that makes brand performance measurable, a proven formula for reallocating ad spend, and strategies for turning existing customers into your best growth lever."
Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the second part of the second event, digging into four different common arguments that CFOs make against brand, including: timing, budget, outdated beliefs about buyers, and misguided thoughts on company scope.
Check out our events page to register for the third event, happening live on August 21.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing
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Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the first part of the second event, digging into Measurement and ROI.
Throughout the conversation, Dale systematically demystifies common misconceptions surrounding brand marketing efforts, particularly in the B2B sector, highlighting why measuring brand ROI can be challenging yet essential. The discussion also uncovers how digital marketing's data-driven approach has changed traditional ROI expectations and how this shift has influenced financial executives' demands for precise outcomes.
Check out our events page to register for the third episode, happening live on August 21.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing
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Evan Hughes and Ciara Hopkins host Malin Wijenayake to discuss the 2025 playbook for Paid Social on Reddit.
This session focuses on the strategic importance of using Reddit ads for B2B marketing. As the digital marketing landscape evolves, they dig into why Reddit, often overlooked in B2B strategies, can be a powerful platform for reaching untapped segments. Evan highlights the shifting dynamics of Reddit discoverability with Google's data agreement, opening pathways for marketers to re-evaluate Reddit's role in their arsenal.
Malin and Ciara discuss the intricacies of using Reddit for brand awareness and engagement in B2B strategies, considering the unique culture and demographics of the platform. Reddit's expansive subreddit structure offers marketers a vast yet specific landscape to target potential clients with precision. They emphasize crafting creative content that resonates with Reddit's audience, leveraging humor and relevancy to break through typical content fatigue. The episode navigates through essential elements like audience targeting, campaign objectives, creative strategies, and key performance indicators, presenting Reddit as a viable option for marketers willing to explore beyond conventional platforms
Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #paidads #googleads #paidsearch #paidsocial #reddit #subreddit #redditmarketing
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Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series about the intricacies of Brand and Performance in your full marketing strategy. In this first session, they cover:-The impact of brand and performance in marketing-How to integrate both pillars into your full strategy-Memory, task completion, and psychology of response-Optimizing budget allocation between brand and performance
Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the third part of the first episode, covering budget allocation between brand and performance marketing.
As Dale shares his expertise, he underscores the importance of understanding how consumer memory interacts with advertising and the long-term impacts on sales. He delivers actionable insights, particularly around the renowned 60:40 rule—a guideline suggesting that 60% of a marketing budget should focus on brand, while 40% should aim at performance-driven campaigns. Dale highlights the differences between B2B and B2C strategies, suggesting that certain industries may require shifting this balance based on their purchase cycles. He explores the dynamics of memory decay and its impact on brand effectiveness over long purchase cycles. With real-world examples, Dale breaks down how newer brands differ from mature ones in their approach to performance advertising.
Check out our events page to register for the second episode, happening live on July 22.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing
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Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the second part of the first episode, covering how brand and performance can work together as well as common mistakes and limitations of each.
Dale emphasizes that brand ads should aim at building durable memory associations with future buyers, who represent a significant 95% of potential consumers not actively in market. He explains the importance of creating brief, impactful brand ads designed to refresh memories. He also highlights the unimodal nature of performance ads, designed to trigger immediate actions among the 5% of consumers in-market. He cautions against including multiple calls to action in any single performance ad to avoid cognitive overload and reduced effectiveness.
Matt and Dale also cover the limits of performance ads in forming long-term brand memories and investigate how cognitive psychology plays a part in ad memory retention. They mention performance ads often lack impact due to generic offers, and share compelling insights into how rebranding can erase prior brand memories, highlighting the value of consistent brand assets over time.
Tune in soon for part three of this enlightening episode.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing
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Matt Sciannella hosts Dale Harrison in a three part summer event series to cover the intricacies of Brand and Performance marketing. This is the first part of the first episode, covering why brand and performance are both important elements to consider in your overall B2B marketing strategy.
They explore why companies must establish a presence in buyers' minds before they come into the market and highlight the cognitive differences between memory formation and responsive actions in marketing. Dale explains that 80-85% of B2B buyers have a pre-existing set of brands in mind before they even begin their purchasing journey, making brand recognition crucial. He also explains the science behind brand marketing that works to establish durable memory structures through distinctive brand assets like logos, mascots, and jingles, which create lasting emotional connections. Performance marketing, on the other hand, is focused on eliciting immediate actions from buyers, functioning best when informative and action-oriented.
Tune in soon for part two of this enlightening episode.
Episode topics: #marketing, #demandgeneration, #brand, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #brandmarketing #performancemarketing
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Megan Bowen, Evan Hughes, and Ciara Hopkins host Jason Theroux to discuss the 2025 playbook for Paid Social and Facebook / Meta ads.
This session focuses on utilizing Meta’s platforms for creating brand awareness and improving engagement within the B2B sector. As businesses seek to meet their audiences where they reside online, marketing professionals can leverage the insights shared to refine their digital strategies.
Dale shares actionable insights into audience targeting, the importance of consolidation, and effective use of third-party tools for better audience reach on Facebook. He and Ciara emphasize the use of creative content strategies, including carousel ads and video content, to captivate the audience's attention. Mastering Meta's intricate advertising tools means understanding each ad placement's value, avoiding low-quality impressions, and aligning campaign objectives with business goals.
This episode also offers guidance on measuring campaign success through a hybrid attribution framework, addressing the challenges of tracking and conversion amidst privacy changes and algorithm updates. The dialogue supports businesses in balancing their marketing budgets optimally across channels, with Facebook serving as a valuable, cost-effective component in a diversified marketing mix.
Episode topics: #marketing, #leadgen, #demandgeneration, #sales, #B2BSaaS, #digitalmarketing #ads #paidads #googleads #paidsearch #paidsocial #meta #facebook #instagram
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From GTM Live:
This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Megan Bowen, CEO of Refine Labs, to unpack why so many B2B companies are pouring budget into paid media, and still missing revenue targets.
They break down what’s really going wrong: not too much paid media, but too much spend on a strategy that doesn’t convert. Pipeline is down. Revenue is down. And yet, the response is often to spend more, not better.
You’ll hear why performance marketing often fails to deliver real outcomes, how misaligned KPIs drive bad decisions, and what separates newer, agile companies from legacy players still running outdated GTM playbooks.
Megan shares insights from working with dozens of growth-stage companies and how leadership mindset, speed of iteration, and willingness to challenge old assumptions can make or break your demand strategy.
If you’ve been trying to defend paid spend, or wondering why results are flat despite doing “all the right things”, this episode is for you.
Key topics in this episode:
Why paid media often fails to convert to pipeline or revenue
The difference between new-school and old-school GTM teams
Why optimizing for MQLs leads to the wrong outcomes
How to rethink measurement for real demand capture
What high-performing growth teams do differently
This episode is powered by Passetto. We help high-growth and equity-backed companies turn GTM data into better decisions, faster. We unify your GTM and financial data, identify your growth levers, and help you scale. Part SaaS, part advisory. Visit passetto.com.
