The one where our BoOoOos take over ... We're at the height of spooky season, and what could be spookier than two dudes talking theology? Just kidding, Roxy and Katelyn love the two men who are taking over SBTC this week!John Schmidt, Roxy's husband, returns to talk preaching, Fleabag, and lady editors with Jack Brownfield, who is also an Episcopal priest as well as Katelyn's fiancé. John and Jack discuss their respective callings to pastoral ministry, expectations others may have for priests' wives,  and some relationship tips John and Roxy have learned in their first year-plus of marriage. Jack also recounts his and Katelyn's meet cute, and the boys get both sporty and nerdy by doing a play-by-play with their favorite dead theologians.Don't be scared, Katelyn and Roxy will be back ... after they're done taking over John's and Jack's pulpits.   GUESTS: The Rev. John Schmidt is the associate rector at Church of the Epiphany in Manhattan. He has broad experience leading teams and communities across difference, especially individuals experiencing food and housing insecurity, and those justice-impacted. He has a deep love of liturgy and people, especially when a community fashions a common life around practices and habits that lead to loving one another and their neighbors well. The Rev. Jack Brownfield is an associate rector at St Michael's of the Valley outside Pittsburgh. Jack is passionate about preaching and teaching the Good News of God’s free grace toward the world and listening to God’s Word as it is spoken to each of us, here and now. He enjoys connecting theology and history to our lives in the real world, so these subjects are not just shut up in books but  make a difference for how we love and trust God and live with one another. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When you're on fire for Jesus — and each other. It's a tale as old as time: young and zealous evangelical co-eds meet in college, fall head over heels, dream of a life in ministry together ... and also of having sex, something they can't do until they get married. So they do — they tie the knot, in front of friends and family and maybe over the concerns of their parents. God called them together, after all! What could go wrong?  As it turns out, plenty. Such was the case for our guest today, Jen Hatmaker, who married at 19 and for 26 years lived what seemed an enviable evangelical life. A pastor husband, five kids, a home renovation TV show, a thriving career as an author and women's ministry leader. And then it all fell apart. Katelyn and Roxy, who experienced a similar story, talk with Jen about the evangelical pressure to marry young, the surprising gifts of single life after divorce, and her ongoing spiritual awakening. GUEST: Jen Hatmaker is an author, speaker and podcaster with 15 books to her name, including five New York Times best sellers. She is most recently the author of "Awake: A Memoir."  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you there God? It's me, Mushrooms ... Katelyn and Roxy are what researchers would call "psychedelically naïve." As in, we've never gone on a hallucinogenic trip before. But we're not necessarily psychedelically negative — we're open, curious, cautious. So when a new study released this summer from Johns Hopkins and NYU on the effects of psilocybin — as in magic mushrooms — on clergy, we knew we had to do an episode on it. We're guided through this episode by RNS reporter Kathryn Post, who has been talking with the clergy participants of the study for years about their experiences. And, as she notes in her reporting, those experiences were overwhelmingly positive —  96% of the 24 participants retroactively rated one of their psilocybin experiences among the top five most spiritually significant of their lives. We're also joined by one of the clergy participants, Rabbi Zac Kamenetz, who in the years since the study has gone on to found his own organization to support "Jewish psychedelic explorers" around the world. GUESTS Kathryn Post is a Pittsburgh-based reporter for RNS covering topics such as Gen Z spirituality, pop culture and abuse in religious contexts. Zac Kamenetz is a rabbi, community educator, artist and aspiring psychedelic chaplain. He is the founder and CEO of Shefa, which works to create spaces for healing and self-discovery in community by integrating Jewish wisdom with psychedelic practices. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Who is really winning here? In the wake of Charlie Kirk's very gruesome and very public assassination on September 10, the debate over his legacy has played out in real time and online. The responses to his death revealing just how fractured we've become. Some called him a martyr, modern-day St. Paul. Others pointed to his history of racist and xenophobic rhetoric and wondered why Christians were valorizing someone who had said such hurtful things. Workers were fired for their social media posts. Jimmy Kimmel was suspended. Pastors faced backlash no matter what they said — or didn't say — from the pulpit. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy grapple with how to hold space for both mourning political violence and reckoning with Kirk's troubling legacy. We are joined by New Testament scholar Nijay Gupta, whose viral substack post, "If You Are Elevating Charlie Kirk, Consider Who You Are Crushing Underfoot," wrestled with what it means to remember controversial figures honestly — especially when half the church sees a saint and half sees a devil in disguise.

If every generation of parents has their anxieties, the post-evangelical Millennial parent is perhaps most angsty about how to raise their kids as Christians — without all the baggage. Many parents our age — especially those who grew up evangelical — were raised in a time when Christian parenting books were ubiquitous and none more so than James Dobson's. Dobson, who died this summer, was the founder of Focus on the Family and the impact of his teachings on parenting — from discipline, to parental authority, to obedience, gender and sexuality — is hard to understate. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy examine Dobson's legacy and the broader Christian parenting empire he helped build. We're joined by author Marissa Franks Burt to discuss what made these teachings so appealing to anxious Christian parents and why so many adult children are now processing the harm.

Doug Wilson’s name is suddenly everywhere (and his voice too). The 72-year-old pastor from Moscow, Idaho has become the go-to theologian for Christian nationalism, offering what has been framed as a more moderate, more intellectually rigorous case for a Christian nation. One where women can't vote, immigration is strictly limited to maintain a Christian majority and only Christians (of a certain kind) can hold political office. From his base in Moscow, Wilson has built a denomination, a network of schools, and a multimedia empire. His church has doubled in size since the pandemic and his denomination has a new church plant in Washington D.C., where Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth has been spotted in attendance. In this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore who Wilson is, why he matters, and what his growing influence reveals about the kind of conservative religion gaining political power in this moment. GUEST: Jack Jenkins is a national reporter for Religion News Service and has been reporting on Doug Wilson since 2022.

What the holy heck is happening at Hillsong? The last six weeks have seen a seesaw of scandalous revelations between Hillsong U.S. and Hillsong Australia. The resignation of global senior pastor Brian Houston after revelations of sexual indiscretion. The discovery of allegations of rape by a junior staffer against a former pastor. The departure of several prominent U.S. pastors and Hillsong affiliated churches. A not-so-flattering documentary. And then the leaked report of the Hillsong NYC investigation, which painted a picture of a church leadership rife with abuse, sexual misconduct and secrecy. This week, Katelyn and Roxy break down the Hillsong breakdown — and explore some of the systemic issues that have seemed to haunt the church from the beginning. Roxy gives a recap of her reporting on Hillsong from the last few years — beginning with the firing of Carl Lentz, hype-priest and Justin Bieber confidante, for his “tequila-drenched love affair.” And we dig into some questions core to Katelyn's upcoming book on Christian celebrities. Including of course, just how deep can a pastor's V-neck go?

When the clock keeps ticking, you gotta get picking ... a sperm donor, that is. Ok, but really, as more and more women are single into their late thirties and early forties, the option to have a child through in vitro fertilization becomes a very live question. As much as forty may be the new twenty, the biological timeline for many women still looms large. If you're someone who wants to bear children, waiting for the right partner may feel like a dead end. Or, as our guest today puts it, that's a lot of pressure for a first date. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk to a friend who made the decision to put dating on hold and become a mother on her own. We discuss process, finances, a bit of theology and a lot of love. GUEST: ⁠Annie Parsons⁠ gave birth to her baby boy in early October, just a few days after recording this episode. Everyone is healthy and happy and we are overjoyed for this fledgling family.

Let's get a drink sometime! New York's a drinking town. Happy hours. Boozy brunches. Martinis and oysters. The city's social life revolves around artisan cocktails and bubbly toasts and late night dive bars. And while the pandemic may have put a screeching halt to the social side of that life, it didn't stop the flow of booze. Restaurants offered craft cocktails to go, the sidewalks became open carry and delivery drinks were an app away. Drinking went from social to solo and it was during that time that both Katelyn and Roxy began to wonder if all this imbibing was really OK. On this episode, we examine our relationships with alcohol and the changes we've made since the pandemic. We're joined by Sarah Bessey — a self-described "evangelist" for the sober life — who gave up drinking a few years ago and hasn't looked back since. GUEST ⁠Sarah Bessey⁠ is the author of several books, including ⁠Jesus Feminist⁠ and the co-founder of the Evolving Faith conference. You can read her weekly musings at her substack: ⁠Sarah Bessey's Field Notes⁠.  

From Jesus Freak to freaked out. In this episode, we grapple with "the e-word" and why we struggle to claim the evangelical label. Having grown up fully immersed in that culture and going on to dedicate much of our careers to the movement, we examine our disillusionment and disappointment with its trajectory — and where we go next. The past five years revealed fractures and hypocrisies that betrayed so much of what we — and a generation of millennial Christians — grew up being taught. Now we wonder: Is evangelicalism worth saving? Plus: We go on an adventure to Washington Square Park to hear what some of our New York City neighbors think about the word "evangelical."

This episode, Katelyn and Roxy are joined by the GOAT, the legend who arguably started the spiritual podcasting genre, the longtime host of On Being, Krista Tippett. This wide-ranging conversation lingers on some of the more salient questions of our time: What is the role of faith in a technological era? Does religion only divide? How can spiritual practices make a difference in a world that needs action? GUEST: ⁠Krista Tippett⁠ is a journalist and Peabody Award-winning broadcaster. She created and hosts the podcast On Being and is the author of several books, including "Becoming Wise." She was awarded the National Humanities Medal by Barack Obama in 2014. From 2024

Founded in 2007 as a "learning community that mobilizes Christians to advance the common good," Q was part of a broader movement of Christian cultural engagement in the mid-aughts and early teens. Much of it influenced by the late Tim Keller. Today, Q — now THINQ Media — feels emblematic of the broader tensions within evangelicalism around how Christians should navigate what they see as an increasingly hostile culture. The "winsome" approach is increasingly seen as naive, cultural engagement has given way to culture war rhetoric, and terms like "negative world" have entered the evangelical vocabulary. On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy share memories of Q conferences over the years (Portland! Los Angeles! Boston! DC! ... and, finally, Nashville). We examine its decided shift rightward and mourn an importance space that feels lost. We are joined by Collin Hansen, editor-in-chief of The Gospel Coalition and author of a Tim Keller biography, who offers insight into the fractures among Keller's acolytes and the growing pushback against his approach.  GUEST: Collin Hansen serves as vice president for content and editor in chief of The Gospel Coalition, as well as executive director of The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. He hosts the Gospelbound podcast and is the author of several books, including "Timothy Keller: His Spiritual and Intellectual Formation. " He is an adjunct professor at Beeson Divinity School, where he also co-chairs the advisory board.

First, we set the scene with our our most movie-worthy post-breakup moments — we're talking ice cream binging, sad song belting, pillow weeping melt downs. Next up, we get into your break-up stories. It's our long-awaited break-up episode and you, dear listeners, delivered. You sent in your sad stories, you sent in your sob stories, you sent in your weird stories and you sent in your evangelical stories. In this break-up bonanza, Katelyn and Roxy dissect the anatomy of a break-up — what makes for a good one and what makes for a bad one (no splitting up over text!). And we share our own tales of lost love — and also of dodging bullets.

Have you ever found yourself mid-doomscroll, suddenly enthralled by a beautiful woman baking a pie and arranging an armful of flowers freshly picked from her garden, while in the background her children play with adorable wooden toys on a natural fiber rug? You have stumbled into the trad-wife corner of the internet. Welcome. The bread is fresh and the grass is definitely greener (it's natural fertilizer). On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy give you a tour of the trad wife phenemonon, it's various forms (from supermodels to crunchy granola types to the MAGA evangelists), and what in the Martha Stewart is going on with Ballerina Farm? They also talk with Kelsey Kramer McGinnis about why trad wives have found their moment and what the appeal is — because let's be honest, there is some appeal (even if you're just hate watching the posts). GUEST: Kelsey Kramer McGinnis is a writer, musicologist and educator who holds a PhD from the University of Iowa. She is a regular contributor to Christianity Today and the coauthor of the forthcoming book "The Myth of Christian Parenting: How False Promises Betrayed a Generation of Evangelical Families."

You don't want to be THAT tourist. We all need a vacation and many of us are seeking more than rest or fun on our next getaway. Pilgrimages, retreats, wellness centers — an industry has grown up around the desire to to find transcendence — or at least a bit of mindfulness — while escaping real life. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore the cringe factors inherent in spiritual tourism — selfies in temples anyone? — and the true rewards that sacred travel can offer. We are joined by travel writer and spiritual seeker, Pico Iyer, who has turned his curiosity about the world's religions into a lifetime of finding grace in far-flung sacred spaces. GUEST: Pico Iyer is an essayist and author, perhaps best known for his travel writing. He has written 15 books and appeared in the pages of Time, The New York Times, Harper’s Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, among many others. His most recent book "Aflame: Learning from Silence," recounts his many visits to The New Camaldoli Hermitage in Big Sur, California.

It's 2025, and the vibes feel a bit...off. It's been nearly five years since the murder of George Floyd and the national and global protests it sparked. Since then, we've seen local efforts to stop public schools from teaching about racism in America; withdrawal of federal funding for DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) programs; and a broad attitude shift against various progressive causes. How do white Americans, especially white women, stay engaged in the work of racial justice when the headlines have moved on and when 'woke' is considered weak? This week, Katelyn and Roxy speak with Latasha Morrison, founder of Be the Bridge, on pursuing justice for the long haul and what gives her hope amid our anti-DEI moment. We also hear from a longtime Be the Bridge participant, Margo Yoder, on why relationships and proximity to real people matter more than social media posting. GUEST: Latasha Morrison is the founder of Be the Bridge, a nonprofit that promotes racial reconciliation and education, and author of the bestselling book Be the Bridge as well as the 2024 follow-up, Brown Faces, White Spaces: Confronting Systemic Racism to Bring Healing and Restoration.

Pope Francis was a man of the people. Will the next pope be? After 12 years as the head of the Catholic church — and the most famous Christian in the world — Pope Francis died on Monday (April 21) at 88. A charismatic reformer, the first Latin American pope and the first Jesuit pope, Francis was beloved well beyond the Catholic church. As world leaders, Catholic faithful and cardinals from around the globe travel to the Vatican this week to mourn Francis, talk of his successor has also begun. The Conclave — made all the more intriguing to many by the recent Oscar nominated movie of the same name — will take place in the coming days and the lists of "papabile," or favored successors, are already rolling in. Katelyn and Roxy are joined by Claire Giangravé, RNS's voice of the Vatican, for a reflection on Francis's legacy and a sneak preview of the Vatican drama to come. GUEST: Claire Giangravé is a Rome-based reporter for RNS, covering the Catholic Church and the Vatican.

Good Friday and Easter are basically the pinnacle of the Christian calendar. What it all centers on. But in recent years we’ve seen a lot of angst over what Jesus’ death on the cross and his resurrection really mean — and if what people grew up believing about them might be all wrong. We're talking, of course, about PSA — or penal substitutionary atonement theory. For some, this explanation of what happened on the cross has become more obstacle than on-ramp to Christianity. And has left many wondering — why did Jesus have to die, really? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dust off their theologian caps for a little lesson on historical atonement theories. And, with guest Brian Zahnd, imagine new (and old) ways of approaching the cross that go beyond theory. GUEST: Brian Zahnd is the founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. He is the author of eleven books, including his most recent "The Wood Between the Worlds: A Poetic Theology of the Cross."

Chappell Roan says all her friends with kids are in hell. A popular subreddit asks "does anyone else just… not like kids?" A crowd of the usual suspects — pro-natalists, theo bros and mom influencers — pounce on these examples to decry our increasingly "anti-kid" and "childless cat lady" culture. Is this just a recycled generational debate — feminists vs homemakers but this time on TikTok — or is there something new going on here? Are some women (and men too, though maybe to less pearl clutching) just saying the quiet part out loud? That parenthood is really hard and changes your life, not always in super positive ways. That kids can be difficult to handle in public places. Or is this a true shift in public thinking — toward a less kid inclusive world? Katelyn and Roxy explore these questions and look at the evidence (data dump, anyone?), as we also ask: What role do children play in the Church and in Christian life?

Did you know there are piles of guidebooks meant to help women excel at being the church's first lady? From how to step out of a car when pulling up to church on Sunday, to preparing the perfect casserole, to keeping the kids smiling and still in the front pew. And those dirty dishes in the sink? They could be the talk of the lady's luncheon if you're not careful. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy dig into the pile of expectations put on pastor's wives — and the idea that his ministry must be her ministry. As a woman newly wed to a priest, Roxy wonders what those expectations mean for her — and which parts of this role to lean into and which to resist. And Katelyn ... well, Katelyn has some new reasons to care too (listen to find out!). We talk with historian Beth Allison Barr about why the role of pastor's wife has evolved in many denominations to be the primary path of ministry for some women. Plus: The Millennial Girl Boss's Guide to Being the Pastor's Wife (as cringe as you'd expect!) GUEST: Beth Allison Barr is the James Vardaman Professor of History at Baylor University. She is the author of the New York Times bestselling book, "Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as a Woman’s Path to Ministry," as well as, "The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth." She is a pastor’s wife and mom.