How do you turn legal data into trusted insight across one of the world’s largest law firms?
In this episode, Jennifer Mapp, Senior Director of Data Management and Analytics at Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP, shares how her team built a firmwide data foundation that empowers attorneys and business leaders to make faster, smarter decisions. From launching business intelligence dashboards that replaced hours of manual reporting to expanding the firm’s knowledge management program into a structured data governance model, Jennifer explains how credibility, collaboration, and consistency turned raw data into real value.
She walks through how Morgan Lewis connects internal and external data to create unified profiles for over 15,000 cases. Jennifer also breaks down how the firm measures success (adoption, quality, and attorney feedback), the importance of starting small instead of waiting for perfect data, and how cross-functional collaboration is setting the stage for responsible AI readiness across the firm.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:33) Jennifer's journey into legal data
(04:39) The importance of data quality and adoption
(13:35) Implementing business intelligence dashboards
(16:17) Curating metadata for enhanced insights
(20:28) Measuring impact and adoption
(22:41) Challenges and lessons in data governance
(29:10) Buy vs. Build: Strategic decisions
(31:17) Future of data, analytics, and AI in law firms
(34:04) Practical advice for data strategy
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What makes a modern data platform actually work inside a law firm?
In this episode, Mark Thorogood, Director of Enterprise Data Operations & Software Engineering at Perkins Coie LLP, breaks down how his team moved beyond on-prem constraints to a DIY lakehouse and logical data fabric that unify insights across the firm. Drawing on lessons from the army and time at sea, Mark explains why standards, simplicity, and focusing on “critical data elements” beat boiling the ocean, and how a business glossary (not just a data dictionary) turns data into decisions.
Mark also shares the nuts and bolts: Databricks and Microsoft Fabric on Delta/Parquet, Denodo for virtualization, and Power BI on the front end, plus the outcomes that matter (costs cut to one-fifteenth, 12× more finished rows, and cycle times moving from months to sprints). We get into API realities (why you’ll cache), medallion-style layers (including their “copper” tier), portfolio-level budgeting beyond matter records, and what’s next with agentic AI producing defensible, explainable analyses across practice groups.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:34) Mark's career journey
(02:48) Lessons from the Army and sailing
(05:09) Leadership and team building
(06:21) The importance of data
(08:27) Building a data platform
(12:52) Implementing a lakehouse
(16:03) Architecture inspiration and choices
(17:47) Business glossary vs. Data dictionary
(22:03) Challenges in scaling and API performance
(23:24) Utilizing API data for enrichment
(26:37) Building and managing a data team
(28:52) Client portfolio budgets and AI integration
(30:43) Future of data analytics and AI in legal
(35:18) Virtualization and semantic layers
(36:50) Resistance to change and overcoming it
(38:57) Practical tips for data platform transition
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What good is a dashboard if no one’s using it?
In this episode, Jeannine Zito, senior manager of global knowledge solutions at Cleary Gottlieb, talks about how her background in banking shaped the way she thinks about data, strategy, and transformation inside major law firms. She gets into what happens when firms wait too long for the “perfect” data strategy, how information overload slows down adoption, and why the real driver of insight isn’t spreadsheets—it’s storytelling.
Jeannine also shares what it was like to move from JP Morgan into legal, what she learned rolling out a new intranet and firm directory in just nine months, and why the firms getting it right today are focused on building data cultures—not just tech stacks.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:09) Janine's career journey: from banking to law
(04:39) Challenges and epiphanies in data management
(11:11) The importance of data quality and context
(14:14) Leveraging data for strategic decisions
(23:49) Future of data and AI in legal industry
(33:54) Balancing immediate wins with long-term strategy
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What makes a data strategy actually work inside a law firm?
In this episode, Carrie Remhof, Director of Firm Intelligence at Troutman Pepper Locke LLP, shares what she’s learned from building, implementing, and reimagining legal data systems across 30+ firms. She talks about the real reasons legal tech projects succeed or stall, why data perfection is a myth, and how firms can adopt a “fail fast” mindset without compromising on risk.
Carrie also walks us through her unique journey from software engineer to legal tech leader, offering candid advice on hybrid profiling, AI adoption, and how to avoid “data hoarding.” Plus, she breaks down how her team used AI to unify attorney bios post-merger, why curiosity matters more than credentials, and what it takes to foster a culture of innovation in a conservative industry.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:20) Career highlights and key learnings
(02:43) Implementing and innovating with Foundation
(06:50) Challenges and strategies in legal data management
(18:31) Adapting to new features and data capture
(19:45) Hybrid profiling and use cases at Troutman
(22:32) Innovative solutions for mergers
(25:03) Fostering a culture of innovation
(31:54) Embracing AI and data projects
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What happens when data, clients, and people finally connect?
In this episode, Rachel Shields Williams, Director of Client Intelligence at Sidley Austin LLP and incoming president of the Legal Marketing Association, shares how a lifelong instinct to “just help people” evolved into one of the most forward-thinking data roles in big law.
Rachel explains why chasing perfection kills progress, what law firms can learn from a family-run business, and how to balance short-term data wins with long-term strategic value. Plus: the critical importance of soft skills in innovation, the value of failure, and why today’s legal marketers need to become fluent in data or risk being left behind.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:36) Rachel's career journey
(04:07) The origin of Rachel’s service mindset
(06:23) The role of data in law firms
(14:42) The importance of failing and learning
(20:11) Hiring for traits over titles
(26:13) The future of data analytics and AI
(30:10) Practical data wisdom for law firms
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What good is all that data if no one’s using it to take action?
In this episode, Evan Shenkman and Jennifer Mendez of Fisher Phillips break down what it really means to build a data-driven culture inside a law firm. They share how their team went from buzzwords to business impact: rolling out viral dashboards, tapping into firm-wide buy-in, and partnering with vendors to co-develop tools powered by GPT-4.
Evan and Jenn also get into the limitations of case prediction, what makes a “quick win” actually work, and why firms that obsess over the perfect model are often the ones stuck on the sidelines. Their advice? Start small. Stay close to the business. Build trust through results.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(02:05) Realizing the power of data
(02:29) Early data projects and external data
(05:26) Internal data utilization and COVID-19 tracker
(11:48) AI in law: early adoption and lessons learned
(15:06) Challenges in predictive analytics
(17:17) Data collection and management
(21:24) Common pitfalls in legal data projects
(23:37) Getting started with data in law firms
(24:08) Leveraging external data and APIs
(26:25) The power of third-party data
(27:02) Identifying high-impact projects
(28:21) Iterative development and quick wins
(32:02) Future of AI in legal practice
(38:16) Building AI competency and measuring success
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You can’t manage what you’re not measuring.
In this episode, Robert Sartin, chairman of Frost Brown Todd, shares how his background in economics, finance, and distressed M&A led him to champion a data-forward strategy long before it became industry standard. He talks about why law firms can’t afford to delay their data journeys, what it takes to turn firm-wide strategy into execution, and how he built alignment around change in a partnership environment.
Robert also discusses the unexpected power of gamification in building a data culture, and how AI will reshape pricing, talent management, and long-term firm viability.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Intro
(01:09) From banking and M&A to law firm leadership
(04:33) Why Frost Brown Todd leaned into data
(07:47) Building a value proposition with data
(10:20) Why strategy without data won’t work
(13:12) AI’s impact on pricing and firm structure
(16:21) Building buy-in inside a law firm
(20:29) What Robert would do differently
(23:15) Leading cultural change with early wins
(25:56) Gamifying historical data entry
(28:06) Using data to integrate and grow teams
(33:20) The future of Frost Brown Todd
(34:44) Advice for law firm leaders just starting
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Overruled by Data is the podcast for law firms looking to accelerate their data journey without all the pain points.
Hosted by Tom Baldwin and brought to you by Entegrata, each episode shares real-world stories from law firm leaders who’ve tackled the tough stuff—getting data from all the right places, navigating the AI hype, and scaling operations in a way that doesn’t leave you with a mountain of tech debt.
If you're in a leadership role at a law firm, this show offers valuable insights from those who've been there, sharing what works and what to avoid on your data-driven journey.
