What happens when life doesn’t match your values — and what does it take to course-correct?
In this reflective episode of *Making Sense of Ourselves*, host Abby Covert is joined by Sensemakers Club members Mike and Jessica for an intimate conversation about values—where they come from, how they show up, and the moments we realize something in our life is no longer aligned.
We talk about:
- Leaving a job that made you physically ill — and the courage to start again
- How people-pleasing and over-functioning can mask misalignment
- The subtle ways we overvalue or undervalue what we care about most
- Why it's okay to hold values you don’t live up to all the time
Then Abby is joined by co-host Alfi Oloo for a debrief, unpacking the gut-check moments that signal change, the real-life constraints that complicate values-based choices, and the freedom that comes with clarity.
💬 Join the conversation:
This season we’re recording live with our community. Want to be part of a future episode? [Join The Sensemakers Club](http://www.thesensemakersclub.com/) and pull up a chair.
Themes we heard:
📌 Living your values isn’t about perfection—it’s about noticing when something feels *off* and being brave enough to name it.
📌 Overalignment can be just as dangerous as misalignment—especially when it leads to martyrdom, burnout, or feeling “invaluable.”
📌 Most of us are holding multiple roles and responsibilities that shape what’s even possible in the moment. Context matters.
“I knew what we were doing wasn’t right. I physically couldn’t do it.” – Mike Creech
“If I’m hiding my work, I know something’s out of alignment.” – Abby Covert
Season 2, Episode 1 — Support Systems: The Right People at the Right Time
What does it really mean to be supported — and how do we build the kind of community that shows up when it counts?
In this first-ever live episode of *Making Sense of Ourselves*, host Abby Covert is joined by members of The Sensemakers Club for an open discussion about support systems — the people we lean on (and the ones who surprise us), how friendships evolve in adulthood, and what it takes to feel truly held.
We talk about:
- The difference between friends, acquaintances, and “dirty dish” people
- What it means to "take the stairs" to friendship instead of the elevator
- Why some of us go deep with strangers but struggle to maintain connections
- The quiet power of being known by your community, even if it’s accidental
Then Abby is joined by co-host Alfi Oloo for a debrief exploring the biggest takeaways, lingering tensions, and personal reflections on building support that lasts
💬 Join the conversation:
This season we’re recording live with our community. Want to be part of a future episode? [Join The Sensemakers Club](http://www.thesensemakersclub.com/) and pull up a chair.
In this series for our podcast “Making Sense of Ourselves” we will be focused on new voices, featuring interviews with discussion leaders from this amazing community we are building here.
In this episode Sarah Rice & Mari-Megan Moore talk about their experience starting one of our 20+ monthly discussion groups, Consultant Support (now Independent Senemakers), why the opportunity to lead at the club made sense in this season, why this topic, and the primary lessons learned from monthly discussions with our members.
“Independent Sensemakers” is one of 20+ monthly peer-led discussion groups at the club, so if this group sounds like something you might want in on — chances are there maybe be a few more that might make you curious.
In this series for our podcast “Making Sense of Ourselves” we will be focused on new voices, featuring interviews with discussion leaders from this amazing community we are building here.
In this episode Joe Elmendorf & Suzan Quick talk about their experience starting one of our 20+ monthly discussion groups, Making Sense of Mindfulness & Modeling, why the opportunity to lead at the club made sense in this season, why this topic, and the primary lessons learned from monthly discussions with our members.
“Making Sense of Mindfulness & Modeling” is one of 20+ monthly peer-led discussion groups at the club, so if this group sounds like something you might want in on — chances are there maybe be a few more that might make you curious.
In this special two part episode Abby and Alfi dig into their own frameworks, and reflect on revisiting them two years after production on their course started.
In this second part, Abby walks us through three of the six growth paths in the program:
In this special two part episode Abby and Alfi dig into their own frameworks, and reflect on revisiting them two years after production on their course started.
In this first part, Alfi walks us through three of the six growth paths in the program:
In this episode of Making Sense of Ourselves, Abby and Alfi explore the contrasting levels of connection in our personal networks through a new tool: The Network Health Check.
Topics in this Episode:
🎯 Origins and Purpose
🔄 The Three Rings Framework
🌱 Practical strategies for strengthening connections at each level, and knowing when it's time to make changes
✂️ A candid discussion about the challenging but necessary practice of managing relationship changes
💭 Abby and Alfi share their own revelations about relationship patterns and community building
📢 Special Event Announcement
Join us February 12th at 12pm Eastern for an exclusive preview event of the new and improved Making Sense of Yourself program. RSVP Now
In this series for our podcast “Making Sense of Ourselves” we will be focused on new voices, featuring interviews with discussion leaders from this amazing community we are building here.
In this episode Natasha Godwin talks about her experience starting one of our 20+ monthly discussion groups, Making Sense of Change, why the opportunity to lead at the club made sense in this season, why this topic, and the primary lessons learned from monthly discussions with our members.
“Making Sense of Change” is one of 20+ monthly peer-led discussion groups at the club, so if this group sounds like something you might want in on — chances are there maybe be a few more that might make you curious.
In this episode of Making Sense of Ourselves, Abby and Alfi engage in a deep exploration of the contrasting roles that safety and risk play in personal growth and community development. With their different upbringings and worldviews, Abby and Alfi bring unique perspectives on how these concepts influence our sense of self and our relationships with others.
Topics this episode:
🛡️ Safety vs. Risk: Framing the Discussion Abby and Alfi set the stage by using a metaphor to contrast safety and risk, likening safety to walls built for protection and risk to stepping outside those walls. They explore how these contrasting environments shape personal development.
🏡 Defining Safety Through Upbringing Abby and Alfi share how their upbringings influenced their relationship with safety. Abby, having experienced safety as a scarce resource, values its creation in both personal and community spaces. Alfi, on the other hand, reflects on growing up with a strong sense of safety at home but also dealing with unexpected health issues that challenged his perception of how safe the world truly is.
💬 Exploring Safe Spaces vs. Protected Spaces They delve into the difference between a "safe space" and a "protected space." Abby defines safe spaces as environments where individuals are respected and feel secure to make mistakes. Alfi adds that protected spaces are more rigid, preventing harm but potentially limiting growth.
🐻 Man vs. Bear: A Safety and Risk Thought Experiment In a playful yet insightful exercise, Abby and Alfi revisit a thought experiment about whether one would feel safer encountering an unknown man or an unknown bear in the woods. This discussion highlights the subjective nature of safety and how deeply rooted societal fears influence our sense of danger.
⚖️ The Thin Line Between Safety and Overprotection Abby and Alfi discuss the balance between providing enough safety to foster confidence and growth, and the potential danger of overprotecting individuals, which can stifle personal development and the ability to take necessary risks.
📈 Building Confidence Through Safe Spaces Abby shares how safety has been a key factor in building her confidence over the years, emphasizing the importance of creating environments where individuals feel seen and supported. Alfi counters with a discussion on how confidence can also be built by overcoming risk and emerging stronger on the other side.
🧱 Safety as a Temporary Measure for Growth The episode wraps up with a discussion on how safety should be viewed as a temporary measure to enable individuals to gather the strength to take risks. They discuss how to recognize when safety is holding someone back from growth and how communities can foster both safety and risk-taking.
💬 Final Thoughts: Abby and Alfi challenge listeners to reflect on their own relationship with safety and risk, and to consider how these dynamics play out in their personal growth and in the communities they participate in.
In this minisode Alison Gretz and Michelle Keller talk about their experience starting our group “Teams of One Support”, why they signed up to lead at the club, why they wanted to lead in this topic, as well as what they have learned from monthly discussions with our members.
In this discussion they cover …
“Teams of One Support” is one of 20+ monthly peer-led discussion groups at the club, so if this group sounds like something you might want in on — chances are there maybe be a few more that might make you curious.
In this special birthday episode of Making Sense of Ourselves, Abby and Alfi explore the significance of the number 42, inspired by The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and reflect on key life lessons that have shaped Abby as she reaches this milestone.
Topics in this Episode:
🌌 The Meaning of 42: Abby kicks off the episode by reflecting on the meaning of 42, famously noted in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as the "answer to life, the universe, and everything." For her, the number has become a symbol of life’s mysteries, absurdities, and the process of "turning things upside down to find meaning."
📝 42 Life Lessons: Abby shares a list of 42 life lessons she’s gathered through years of therapy, peer support, and self-help. Rather than reading all 42, she and Alfi select seven that stand out the most, delving into the significance of each and how they’ve shaped Abby’s journey toward greater authenticity.
💪 Lesson 1: You Can Do Hard Things Alfi reflects on Abby’s journey of starting The SenseMakers Club, pointing to a pivotal moment where Abby chose the harder, unknown path instead of sticking to what she already knew. Together, they discuss the importance of embracing challenges for personal growth.
🙅♀️ Lesson 2: People-Pleasing is Selfish, Not Selfless Abby unpacks how her history of people-pleasing disguised itself as kindness but ultimately led to inauthenticity. She and Alfi talk about the difference between being nice and being kind, and how prioritizing others' comfort often comes at the expense of personal truth.
🧠 Lesson 3: I Am Not My Thoughts, I Am the Thinker of My Thoughts This lesson explores the separation between our thoughts and our identity. Abby and Alfi discuss how mindfulness practices have helped them both detach from unhelpful thoughts and focus on intentional self-awareness.
⚖️ Lesson 4: The Danger of "Shoulds" Abby dives into the word “should” and how it often masks insecurities and fears. She shares her strategy of transforming "should" statements into "could if" possibilities, shifting from judgment to empowerment.
🛑 Lesson 5: Holding Boundaries Can Save Your Life Abby and Alfi discuss the importance of setting and maintaining boundaries to protect one’s mental and emotional health. Abby reflects on how holding firm boundaries has been instrumental in her recovery from addiction and codependency.
💅 Lesson 6: You Can't Be Bad at People and Good at Your Job Abby shares a formative story about learning to navigate relationships at work. She reflects on the turning point in her career when she realized that excelling at her job required her to also excel at connecting with people.
⏳ Lesson 7: The Days Are Long, But the Weeks Are Short Time moves quickly, and Abby reflects on the paradox of how days can feel long, yet weeks pass in the blink of an eye. Together, she and Alfi explore how being present in the moment is essential to ensuring time doesn't slip away unnoticed.
In this new series we will be focused on new voices, featuring interviews with discussion leaders from this amazing community we are building.
In this first minisode Zalihata Ahamada and Alexis Logsdon talk about their experience starting our group on Neurodiversity and Neuro Inclusion, why they signed up to lead at the club, why they wanted to lead in this topic, as well as what they have learned from monthly discussions with our members.
One of the beautiful aspects of the club so far has been the ability to connect two strangers with a common interest in a topic and watch them quickly bond enough to step up to lead a group together. When we were choosing who to record an interview with first, Zalihata and Alexis came top of mind because of the peership they have formed in the last half year, and the impact their meeting has had on so many members of our community.
In this discussion they cover …
“Making Sense of Neurodiversity and Neuro Inclusion” is one of 20+ monthly peer-led discussion groups at the club, so if this group sounds like something you might want in on — chances are there maybe be a few more that might make you curious.
In this episode of Making Sense of Ourselves, Abby and Alfi explore the crucial topic of building resilient relationships. They discuss how to develop deep, meaningful connections and share personal stories of overcoming challenges through strong friendships.
Topics in this episode:
🤝 The Importance of Relationships:
Abby and Alfi kick off the episode by discussing why relationships matter so much and how they impact every aspect of our lives. Abby shares her personal journey of battling burnout and how investing in strong relationships has been a game-changer for her.
🔍 Identifying Strengths and Weaknesses:
Alfi elaborates on the idea that relationships help us compensate for our weaknesses and leverage our strengths. They explore the concept of finding friends who complement our skills and qualities, creating a balanced and supportive network.
🌟 The Power of Authenticity:
Abby reflects on the importance of authenticity in friendships. She shares how shedding the need to mask her true feelings has transformed her relationships, allowing for deeper and more genuine connections.
📊 Balancing Introversion and Extroversion:
The hosts delve into the dynamics of introverts and extroverts in building relationships. They discuss the challenges each group faces and how understanding these dynamics can help in nurturing lasting connections.
🎯 Practical Strategies for Relationship Building:
Alfi introduces practical strategies for relationship building, including the concept of the "two pizza rule" and the idea of a ringed network of relationships. They explore how to balance the initial engagement with long-term nurturing of friendships.
🔄 Connection Bingo:
Abby and Alfi introduce the Connection Bingo exercise from their Making Sense of Yourself program. This activity helps participants identify key relationships in their lives and encourages them to reconnect with important individuals.
📅 SenseMakers Club Updates:
Abby shares exciting updates about the SenseMakers Club, including new initiatives, events, and the growth of the community. She highlights the importance of creating a supportive and engaging environment for all members.
💬 Final Thoughts:
The hosts wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to reflect on their own relationships and consider ways to deepen their connections. They emphasize the value of investing time and effort into building a resilient support network.
Takeaways for Our Sensemakers:
As always, we appreciate your feedback and engagement. Please like, review, and subscribe to continue making sense of ourselves together.
In this episode of Making Sense of Ourself, Abby and Alfi delve into the essential topic of uncovering personal values. They explore how to identify your core values, shed those that no longer serve you, and integrate value-based decision-making into your daily life.
Topics in this episode:
🔍 Why Personal Values Matter:
Abby and Alfi discuss the journey to discovering personal values and why they are crucial for personal growth and authentic living. Abby shares her process of sifting through lists of values to find the most meaningful ones, using Pinterest as an initial source.
📊 From Overwhelming Lists to Meaningful Words:
Abby explains how she condensed thousands of value words into a manageable list of 300 and then further narrowed them down into categories, making the process approachable and insightful for their students.
🗺️ Five Guiding Questions:
🎭 Balancing Continuums:
The hosts introduce the concept of balancing continuums, a tool to help maintain equilibrium between undervaluing and overvaluing one’s core values. They share personal examples and how this tool aids in navigating life’s complexities.
💡 Real-Life Applications:
Alfi and Abby reflect on their own experiences using these values and balancing tools in their daily lives, including how Abby used these tools to decide on a speaking engagement and how Alfi applied them to rebuild his social fabric through hosting weekly dinner discussions.
📣 SenseMakers Club Updates:
Abby shares exciting updates about the SenseMakers Club, including the successful launch of the Founders membership and upcoming daily discussion groups. She highlights the ongoing effort to foster a strong, values-based community.
🌟 Final Thoughts:
The hosts encourage listeners to explore their values and integrate them into their lives, emphasizing that understanding and living by one’s values is an ongoing, spiral journey of self-discovery and growth.
Takeaways for Our Sensemakers:
As always, we appreciate your feedback and engagement. Please like, review, and subscribe to continue making sense of ourselves together.
In this episode, our hosts dive into a framework for collaborative problem-solving with peers, emphasizing the power of dialogue and understanding in building strong peer relationships.
Topics in thie episode:
🌟 The Power of Dialogue:
Abby and Alfi explore the significance of dialogue in peership and how it fosters understanding and connection, drawing inspiration from Mortimer Adler's concept of the "meeting of minds."
🔍 Recognizing Perceptual Blindness:
Alfi introduces the concept of perceptual blindness through Daniel Simons' "Invisible Gorilla" experiment, highlighting how our goals shape our perception and the importance of peer dialogue in uncovering blind spots.
🗣️ Three Conversation Flow:
A deep dive into the collaborative problem-solving framework used in their courses, consisting of three iterative conversations that promote goal setting, problem-solving, and reflection. Abby and Alfi share how this approach helped their students and themselves achieve meaningful progress.
📈 Personal Milestones:
Our hosts discuss the importance of setting and reassessing personal milestones, sharing stories from their students' experiences, including overcoming fears and embracing growth.
🧠 Principles of Effective Dialogue:
Abby and Alfi outline five core principles of effective dialogue:
🤝 Personal Reflections on Peership:
Abby and Alfi reflect on their own experiences with peership, discussing how their different approaches and perspectives have enriched their collaboration and personal growth.
📣 Special Announcement:
The SenseMakers Club is now open for Founders membership! Starting in June, the club will feature daily discussion groups led by trained facilitators. A special event, the SenseMakers Salon, will be held on May 31st, offering a preview of the club's unique, cross-pollinating discussions.
💬 Final Thoughts:
Our hosts encourage listeners to engage in new or rekindled conversations, emphasizing the transformative power of dialogue. They also share personal updates on their own journeys of making sense of themselves.
Takeaways for Our Sensemakers:
As always, we appreciate your feedback and engagement. Please like, review, and subscribe to continue making sense of ourselves together.
Dive deep into the foundational concept that first united Abby and Alfi as co-educators: the Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD). In this episode, they explore what ZPD is, why it's central to making sense of yourself, and how to recognize if you're in your own ZPD.
Topics in this episode:
🌱 Understanding the Zone of Proximal Development: Alfi introduces the concept of ZPD, originally coined by Soviet psychologist Lev Vygotsky, and discusses its importance in educational settings.
🛠️ Three Signs You're in Your ZPD: Abby and Alfi share personal stories and student anecdotes that illustrate the key indicators of working within your ZPD.
🎤 Guest Clips: Listen to clips from Sensemaker Club members who share their experiences of discovering their ZPD
🧑🏫 Practical Tips for Engaging with Your ZPD: Abby and Alfi provide actionable advice for listeners who want to identify and leverage their ZPD for personal growth.
🔍 Milestone Moments: Our hosts reflect on significant milestones in their journey of making sense of themselves and encourage listeners to consider their own.
🔄 Preview of Next Episode: Teaser for the upcoming discussion on collaborative problem-solving and the power of peership
Takeaways for Our Sensemakers:
As always, we appreciate your feedback and engagement. Please like, review, and subscribe to continue making sense of ourselves together.
In their first episode our hosts find their footing and reflect on their peership and friendship.
Topics on this episode:
🤝 Alfi and Abby talk about their peership origin story, and look back on where they both were at the start of 2023 when they started working together at the Sensemakers Club.
🧑🏫 A discussion of the core concepts of the 12 week course ‘Making Sense of Yourself’ and reflect on what they learned having just finished teaching this content for the first time.
⚖️ How Alfi and Abby are similar, and the ways they are quite different.
🌪️ Personal updates on “how made sense of” each of our hosts feel
🎁 Advice for other seekers making sense of themselves.
