In this conversation Naomi talks to Theatre Director Tanushka Marah about how she ensures people have a positive experience.
Tanushka talks about how you are not just making a show, you are also building a community and creating a culture. She talks about how there is a positive experience that comes from the striving and the struggle for the collective discovery of reaching for the impossible.
She talks about the conventions that she has in place during sessions, such as a check in, technique work, ensemble working before starting to rehearse. She reflects on being able to observe the relationships between people in the room and seeing that these are positive and reciprocal for people.
No matter how big the cast is she tries to check in with everyone individually. She places great importance on the space and time before rehearsals or in the breaks, noticing the people who are on their own looking awkward and checking in with them.
She talks about the challenges when there is so much diversity in the room. There needs to be continual care and support to keep people engaged. She talks about the importance of getting people to work together independently so that they create their own relationships with each other. When friendships start to form the social glue also keeps people happy and engaged with the process.
Tanushka talks about the importance of making people feel like there are no stupid ideas. It can also be as simple as ensuring that people are fed and watered. There needs to be camaraderie and playfulness in the room. It is a real duty to generate a positive atmosphere. People love the joy of co-creating and working together, without observation, spreading out across the whole building. Even the ideas that don’t get used help you see where you are not going and are invaluable.
In this episode Naomi talks to freelance artist Dan Thompson about the responsibility of knowing an appropriate amount about who you are working with.
Dan talks about the impact that the work can have on people who participate in it. At its most basic level we need to know their access needs. But at a deeper level we need to understand who they are and why they are participating in the project.
He talks about the diversity of approaches that are needed when working in different contexts. Sometimes it is a deep, long term relationship and other times it is more of a fleeting relationship. As a freelance artist he has his own safeguarding policy in place. This doesn’t need to be complicated - his is less than one side of A4.
Quite often he doesn’t know anything about what has happened in someone’s life and he is okay with that. There is a discussion about the freedom in not knowing and being able to treat everyone equally. Sometimes this enables people to participate in an art project for the first time as they are free of any label or preconceptions of them.
Each artist needs to decide for themselves how much they need to know in each context they are working in. Dan talks about how layered and complex this decision making process is. When it works it can change people’s lives.
Dan talks about a challenge involved being around holding people’s traumatic stories. He talks about the importance of having someone that the artist can talk to and offload what they have heard to. A risk of not knowing enough is that it is possible to alienate people so that they do not come back again. With all of it, Dan believes that artists need to be kind and decent to the people they are working with.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Dan Thompson is a Freelance Artist. You can find out more about his work here.
X: https://twitter.com/artistsmakers
In this episode, Naomi has a conversation with her colleague at Brighton People's Theatre; Jack Parris, about the responsibility of creating a structure or purpose. He talks about the importance of this responsibility because without it, the work can feel uncontained and daunting. The structure creates limitations and gives a picture to everyone involved in the project of what the parameters are for people to play in.
Jack tries to communicate as clearly as possible about where we are in the co-creation process. He tries to generate as much clarity as possible to demystify the theatre making process so that people have an overview of the structure and purpose.
When the structure and purpose is clear, you see people really playing with freedom. With clear parameters the conversation is richer and people feel safer. There is a safe container for the work.
It is challenging during co-created work to hold this responsibility as there are so many unknowns during the process. Jack talks about the importance of being able to be clear about what is known and unknown at each moment in the process. This can be frustrating for people who might feel less comfortable working with so many unknowns. It can also be challenging letting go of ideas, as not everything that is suggested can be integrated into the final project. Having a clear purpose on why we are doing this can help with decision making, but at the start of a process even the purpose will not be clear.
There are risks if this is not held effectively that people lose interest in the work and get confused about what they are doing and why. It is really important to have as much clarity as possible for the organisation, starting at the top with a clear vision and mission. This enables decision making to become clearer and easier with a clear purpose and structure guiding the work.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Jack Parris is the Associate Director of Brighton People's Theatre.
In this episode Naomi talks to Jess Thorpe, Co-Artistic Director of the award-winning Scottish company Glass Performance. Jess talks about through the co-creative process, the artist is bringing the framework and tools and the non professional artist is bringing their lived experience. For her it is important to ensure that the non-professional artists understand the process they are going through.
She thinks it is very important that she is not extractive, taking the best stories for her artistic glory. She prioritises the relationship with people she is working with and considers people’s emotional needs throughout the process.
Over the years she has created a process that she can pass on to others (with her collaborator Tashi Gore). Sometimes people expect a script. This is particularly prevalent in a prison context where she often works. She gives each of the stages of the process a name and writes this structure on the wall so that people understand where they are in the process. She constantly creates a shared language in the room.
Jess talks about the importance of rituals to create opportunities for feedback and dialogue within the group. They utilise questions a lot. They also have an Anonymous Anxieties box which anyone can put a question or concern in so that issues can be raised in a safe way. It brings multiple voices into the room. She brings this box into the process a couple of times when she feels she needs to know what is really going on in the space. It’s not there all the time as she would not want anxiety to overwhelm the space.
She talks about how their partnership work with Barnardos has enabled a youth worker to be part of the process who holds responsibility for the wellbeing of the young people. This enables her to focus on the theatre. This has been a game changer for Jess. She also has access to a dramatherapist for support in her work at Dundee Rep. Jess talks about the importance of being trauma informed so that everyone comes out of the project more empowered than when they started it.
In reflecting on the challenges of this responsibility, Jess talks about how exhausting it can be. Over the years she has developed stronger boundaries with a clearly articulated path ahead for the relationship once the project has come to an end. There is also a challenge around the level of editorial support that participants might want or need. Sometimes participants will know best what they are capable of and trust that the work is a vehicle for something important to them.
Jess talks about the risks of human pain if the project is not held in a way that feels good. The fear is that someone feels taken advantage of and that work has been made on the back of their life. She has been asked challenging questions by participants which have enabled her to grow because she was scared of them but engaged with them.
She says that you need to ask yourself as an artist why you are doing it. She is concerned about social tourism - where the artist and audience is a tourist in someone else’s social context with a power dynamic that is problematic. She is also concerned about value-signalling that some artists fall into a trap of talking publicly about who they are working with as if they are doing people a huge service. For her it is about lifting people up in the dialogue around your work, not lifting yourself up.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
IG: @naomi.ontheatre
LinkedIn: @naomiontheatre
Jess Thorpe is the Co-Artistic Director of Glass Performance.
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #knowyourlimits #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi talks to Ned Glasier, former CEO and Artistic Director of Company Three about the rights and ethics of making co-created work.
In this discussion about the rights and ethics of co-created work Ned talks about how important that it is given that we are dealing with people’s lives. Plus there is a complicated power dynamic with some people being paid and others not being paid in a lot of co-created work.
Ned believes that the idea of holding an equitable space is at the heart of this work and is an incredibly hard thing to do in the context of a world which is inequitable. For him this is about enabling people to bring their full selves into the room. In every room that he runs, this is talked about. At Company Three there is a weekly meeting where staff can think and talk about how well the company is doing to enable people to bring their full selves into the room. It is a regular item at board meetings and there is a way of reporting anonymously if people feel uncomfortable. For him, the processes that have evolved are rooted in failure and the learning that has come about from that. He talks about living with bullet holes because he has failed and hurt people in the work and having to live with that. The harm never fades. But he believes that he is better at the work as a result of the mistakes that he has made.
When the rights and ethics are taken care of, Ned believes that people feel powerful. He talks about 3 principles; relatedness, competence and autonomy. He gives the example of a 15 year old saying, no, I don’t want to do that and how important it is that the conditions are right to enable this to happen. The rights and ethics are at the bedrock of the work.
Ned talks about the importance of relatedness in working with people’s stories when co-creating theatre. He talks about how important it is that people are fully informed about why they are sharing a story, so that people feel comfortable and confident to do so. It’s important that people know that they can stop. Particularly when stories always involve other people and the sharing of the story will have an impact on others. Part of the ethics of making work is about how care works before, during and after the experience of making the art. For Ned, this forgrounds the importance of long term relationships so that people can process and support people in understanding the long term impact of the work. This includes the possibility of making the play less good because someone changes their mind because they no longer want to say this in front of a group of people that I don’t know and that I do know.
The ethics of this also include looking for what gives people joy rather than what gives them despair. He suggests that you do not attempt to dig too deep when working, for example, with a new group of people over 12 weeks. He doesn’t think it is okay to prioritise the desire for a high risk or edgy show over the experience of the people making it.
Ned talks about the importance of the people who are participating understanding what their rights are and to what extent they can change their minds during the process. He describes the importance of working with people over the long term so that people really understand what the process is about. This includes reminding people constantly that they do not have to go too deep. It includes having regular review points for people to reflect on how the experience of making the show was for them. It’s about the rigour of thinking about the rights for everyone involved in the work.
Ned thinks it’s important to think about the risks involved in the rights and ethics of making this work with the same level of seriousness about thinking about the physical safety risks of the work. He reflects that it is more common for people to get hurt emotionally or psychologically than physically in the work. And yet we don’t include the risks around rights and ethics in the risk assessment for the work.
He talks about the danger of the phrase ‘It’s all their own work’. He describes how this is untrue as it doesn’t acknowledge the input of the professional artist. But in terms of rights and ethics, the professional artist will define the stories that come out of that room. We cannot pretend that the work does not also reflect us when co-creating work. It is allowed to be yours and theirs, that is the beauty of co-creation.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
Insta: @naomi.ontheatre
LinkedIn: @naomiontheatre
Ned Glasier is the former CEO and Artistic Director of Company Three. He now works freelance. To find out more about his work visit his website here: http://nedglasier.com/
X: @ned_glasier
Insta: @nedglasier
In this episode Naomi talks to Sarah Blowers, Founder and former Artistic Director of Strike a Light in Gloucester.
Sarah talks about the complexities of accountability and how important it is to be accountable to the people we are working with. She talks about getting funding for co-created work without detailed activity plans as this is to be determined through the process. For her the accountability is less to funders and more to the people she is working with. She has often worked with people who are on benefits and while she believes that people need to be paid for their work, there are unkind systems in place that prevent this.
She talks about the system being really exclusive to people who could be better suited to working in their community. Larger organisations have the infrastructure to be accountable to funders but smaller grassroots organisations have the networks to be accountable to their community.
Sarah talks about the grassroots organisation GL4 and the transformative impact that the accountability to the community has had. She argues that the models of accountability are outdated as the systems don’t work for small organisations.
She tries to work in a way that is not always top down, Artistic Director led. She talks about the diversity of audiences that are attracted to see work in their community and programmed by community producers - this just doesn’t happen elsewhere. She says that the Artistic Directors need to leave their ego at the door and be accountable to the community.
Sarah talks about the importance of proper monitoring and evaluation which paint a picture of what is really happening to be accountable to both funders and the community. She is clear that it is public money and that there need not be fear about accountability. Sometimes it is hard to hold people accountable, particularly if you are working with a friend. She thinks that to be ambitious and to have high expectations is good, but the resources need to be used wisely and to be accountable for their actions. This is particularly hard for producers of co-created work.
In terms of having difficult conversations she thinks it is important to name it early and not let it go on too long. She thinks this is particularly challenging when the systems which artists and arts organisations work in are not very accessible. It is hard to ask for help, especially when working in a world that is so deeply biased. Always approach accountability conversations with care and kindness. Most people working in this field are over-worked and under-paid.
In this episode Naomi talks to Jason Camilleri about the responsibility of safeguarding.
Jason describes how safeguarding is at the forefront of how he approaches his work with young people aged 11-25 at the Wales Millennium Centre. He believes that without it you are at risk of turning young people away from the arts. One of their projects involves employing young people to run a radio station, so there are many layers of safeguarding to be considered.
He talks through practical tools such as carrying out risk assessments, ensuring the physical space is suitable for the young people and ensuring that young people are safeguarded when taken on trips to festivals such as Boomtown. By carrying out detailed documentation, called an Op Order, they anticipate almost every single thing that can happen, and this is continually reviewed and improved.
They also have a safeguarding team with representatives from across every department in the organisation. The team will review any issues that come up and are followed through until completion.
The long term nature of their work means that they often hold relationships with young people where there are safeguarding concerns. They realised that they needed the same level of care and attention as other agencies and have put significant time and resources into thinking about how the organisation can ensure Safeguarding and Wellbeing is embedded in their work. Now they have an officer who is responsible for Safeguarding and Wellbeing in attendance at all sessions with young people. When someone is triggered by something happening in the co-creative process they have a responsible person to discuss it with.
Jason believes that when this responsibility is held effectively there is proper nurture and support for the young people. Conversely he has seen projects in other organisations promise the world but not deliver and this has been upsetting for everyone involved. One of the challenges is around having enough diversity in the team that hold the responsibility so that young people with different protected characteristics have someone they can talk to that they identify with. They have lots of people across the organisation who are trained in Mental Health First Aid and who are up to date with the wider context that young people are facing in the world.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Jason Camilleri is the Creative Learning Senior Producer at the Wales Millennium Centre.
Youth Collective at Wales Millennium Centre
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-camilleri-431a7475/
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #safeguarding #young people #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi talks to the freelance artist Kelly Green about the responsibility of safety.
Kelly talks about how important this is but is clear that it is not possible to create a completely safe space. She shares a poem called An Invitation to Brave Space, which is about acknowledging that we cannot create a safe space. Kelly has this poem up on the wall in every session she runs and reads it out at the start of each session. She finds that this is a great stimulus for creating a group contract. This can be a great way to acknowledge that people in the room might, for example, hold different political opinions to her as an artist. It is not her job to change people’s minds, but to enable conversations.
Kelly articulates how no space can be safe at the start of a project, where people are strangers and the artist may have a different background to the participants. You cannot know what people’s lived experience is, you cannot know what people’s views are. Kelly describes her experience of working with a group of people who hold really opposite ideological views to her and how she navigated this in a project.
For safety to be built Kelly believes that there needs to be accountability, so that if someone says something that is upsetting for others, this is named and discussed. The way she works is about being open, honest and relatable. She believes that safe exchange is built in this way; by, with and for the people she is working with. She believes that there is safety in acknowledging that there are similarities and differences between her and who she works with.
When safety is created and held effectively Kelly believes you get the best work possible and a real sense of community and equity in the room. If artists can create a safe exchange between people who have different lived experiences or political views then we are winning.
Safety isn’t just about the participants, it is also about the artist too. There are risks around burnout for the artist and around this not being fully acknowledged. Sometimes there are expectations from funders or other agencies involved that can put unsafe pressure on the artist and participants. It is important to be clear about why you are there, what the intention is behind the work. Being explicit, clear and transparent about intentions can create safety.
The conversation ends with an exploration about the power dynamics of payment of professional artists and voluntary contribution of non-professional artists and the way that people are valued in this.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Kelly Green is a Freelance Artist. You can find out more about her work here: https://www.kellyg.net/
X: https://twitter.com/kellygCHAV
IG: https://www.instagram.com/kellygchav/
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #safety #responsibility #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi talks to the Artistic Director of Strike a Light, Sarah Blowers. Sarah talks about the importance of never underestimating what people want to do. She notices that people are often taking a risk by coming along and getting involved. For Sarah, facilitation skills are really important to try to ensure that people feel safe. It is a tightrope of showing leadership, seeing potential and supporting people. It is really important to have an access budget to facilitate people’s involvement properly.
Sarah talks about how the work is often unpredictable and messy as you don’t know what might come up. She talks about the facilitation skills that she uses as a Producer of co-created work. She describes diving straight into working with a group, but that she builds trust by generating clarity and being super clear with people; she ‘chunks and checks’ what she is communicating. Sarah believes that it is important to use simple, clear language and to check back what has been understood.
When facilitation skills are not present, it is dangerous to attempt co-creative practice. It doesn’t work and people don’t feel safe. With good facilitation people will take really good creative risks. At Strike a Light they have 4 Community Producers on payroll who choose the artists to work with their communities. However, she notes that sometimes artists need to be ambitious about what can be achieved.
Sarah recommends having a lot of resources up your sleeve and play a lot of games. She thinks it's important to be flexible, warm and approachable, particularly when working with people who are vulnerable. This means being prepared to throw your session plan away in order to respond meaningfully to the people who are in the room. It also means taking time out to look after yourself and rest as it is demanding work.
There is a discussion about the need for supervision for practitioners to enable them to process what is happening in the creative process. Sarah talks about the importance of holding your nerve that the facilitation process will deliver the outcome you need, but might never have expected. The community will come up with ideas that the professional artists might never have had. She believes artists need to find the sweet spot where everyone is encouraged and enabled to come forward with their ideas. For her, the process of making is the most important thing.
In this episode Naomi talks to Conrad Murray, Founder and Artistic Director of Battersea Arts Centre’s Beatbox Academy about the importance of leaders of co-creative practice having solid art form skills.
Conrad talks about how important it is for the young people who he works with to see him utilise his art form skills. He has been on his own journey with his art form, saying he used to be the worst, but he really wanted to do it and that has driven him to practice and refine his skills. He also knows his limits art form wise and what he is really good at and encourages young people to find their strengths artistically.
He describes how he breaks down and then scaffolds the learning of beatboxing for the young people he works with. Conrad also talks through the journey from teaching art form skills to enabling people to co-create original material every week. He has complete beginners working alongside people who have been beatboxing for years. He notices that people are supporting and helping each other in the development of their art form skills. He talks about how he has created a culture and ritual that repeats every week.
Conrad describes the importance of being open about his own journey as an artist, so people can see him really trying, so that it might inspire them to do better than him. He feels passionately that artists need to have reached a level of mastery over their art form before they attempt to co-create that art form with anyone else. He argues this mastery is inspiring for young people.
He talks about growing up on a council estate and knowing how to code switch in different contexts. He thinks that artists need to have high aspirations for themselves in order to inspire people that they work with. In order to take co-creation seriously, you need to take your own art seriously. He saw himself as a performer first and then grew into leading co-creative sessions. He sees leading the co-creative sessions as a higher calling, but he combines leadership skills with his pre-existing art form skills.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Conrad Murray is the Founder and Artistic Director of the Beatbox Academy which runs at Battersea Arts Centre
X: https://twitter.com/rODIUMrECORDS
IG: https://www.instagram.com/rodium/ https://www.instagram.com/bac_beatbox_academy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conrad-murray-a4b4ba183/
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #truetoyourself #letscreate #embodied
In this episode, London based theatre maker, Kane Husbands, discusses the leadership skill of inclusive language and its importance when leading co-creative practice.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Kane Husbands is the Founder and Artistic Director of The Pappy Show.
X: https://twitter.com/Kane_Husbands
IG: https://www.instagram.com/kane_husbands/
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #patient #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi talks to freelance artist Dan Thompson about the skill of listening and communicating when leading co-creative practice.
Dan talks about the importance of listening first before making any artistic decisions, as he notes that a lot of participatory arts practice revolves around the artist's idea and getting people involved in bringing that idea to life. Deep listening when leading co-creative practice involves having no expectation of what you are going to do, not having your ideas formed already.
The discussion explores how social class impacts people's involvement in the arts; Dan has a working class background and has no expectation that he should be an artist or working in the arts. He really wants to satisfy the people that he is working with. He often checks back in with people a few days after the conversation. For the first meeting he doesn't even take notes or make a recording, so that it feels like a genuine conversation. He is open and curious when listening to people.
Dan starts with doing deep research about a place or subject that he is exploring, before he starts work. He then listens with the context of what he has learnt and it helps to inform the questions that he asks. Dan talks about examples of his own co-creative work in places like Swansea and Stoke on Trent. There is also a discussion about the Settlement Movement and the way in which it takes time for an artist to really listen and really understand a community; the importance of building long term relationships if that is possible.
He argues that listening has to be at the heart of co-created art and that it has to be continuous, not a one off consultation. A constant process of listening and shifting what you are doing as a result of what you hear.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Dan Thompson is a Freelance Artist. You can find out more about his work here.
X: https://twitter.com/artistsmakers
IG: https://www.instagram.com/danthompson33/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-thompson-397501/
In this episode, Naomi has a conversation with her colleague at Brighton People's Theatre; Jack Parris. Jack talks about how people can suffer if the energy levels in a room are too high or low. He believes managing energy levels is absolutely integral to the process, nurturing an energetic journey that ebbs and flows over a workshop or creative process.
Jack talks about the importance of managing the energy levels in the run up to a co-created performance. They reflect on the potential to unleash a kind of crazy energy and how to then ground this and focus it. In order to manage his own energy levels he plans meticulously and tries to ensure that there is a wide range of activities that might need a different kind of energy level throughout a session. He also notes the importance of observing and taking a breath during the workshop. But even when you are watching and observing you are aware of your energy and the focus that this creates in the room. People want to be seen.
Another thing that Jack does is to model the kind of energy level that might be required for a part of the workshop. He talks about introducing scale in the room, so that a framework can help people to push their energetic boundaries beyond what they might have expected. He also outlines Laban efforts to work energetically in a room and Stanislavsky inspired choices of where to place focus in the space.
If energy levels are not managed properly then it can damage relationships in the room and the quality of the work. There can be less respect and attention given to each other. Jack talks about moments when he hasn't managed his own energy levels so well and the impact of that. He notes the importance of the parasympathetic nervous system to regulate and ground your own energy levels in the room. Jack talks about the need to have mastery over your own energy levels, so that you can be perform the role of leader that is modelling the energy that is needed in the room.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Jack Parris is the Associate Director of Brighton People's Theatre.
In this conversation Naomi talks to Theatre Director Tanushka Marah about how she olds space in the work that she co-creates with young people. Tanushka talks about this skill when co-creating as being like 'foraging in the dark'. She describes the moments of holding space when the energy is potent and not being afraid of emptiness and to hold questions and silence. She talks about the importance of creating a shared vision in advance but not knowing what the content will be. She likes to find the energy, then the content, then the words when co-creating. For her, this is particularly important when working with young people who may be neurodivergent or academically less confident.
Tanushka talks about holding your nerve alongside holding the space. She talks about being incredibly open and receptive to everyone's ideas, almost like having eyes and ears all over your body. She also talks about the importance of being aligned with what is going on in the room - for her to hold the space she needs to be able to let go of her day and be fully present.
If the artist as leader does not hold space, then the group dynamics can take over in an unhealthy way. The artist watching and listening is a safe container for play and exploration to take place. Tanushka talks about how you are hyper aware of everyone in the room simultaneously while you are working creatively. She also talks about how exhausting it can be to hold space, particularly when delivering one off workshops.
Tanushka argues that the skill of holding the space is everything when leading co-creative practice. People need to feel heard, valued and deeply listened to, as that is when we reach our artistry; a playful, brave space where we can awaken all the parts of us. She talks about the way that a culture is established in the space, which lets people know what the norms of behaviour are in that space.
In this episode, London based theatre maker, Kane Husbands, discusses the quality of patience and its importance when leading co-creative practice. He talks about how embodying the quality of patience in his workshops is very different to the often high energy theatre and dance performances that he co-creates. He notices that it requires him to find stillness in the busyness and that often this quiet reflection time enables him to really find the story that is emerging and explore why the choices have been taken.
He talks about the importance of being patient in really enabling everyone who is in the room to be fully present and show up as they choose. And he remembers other artists who he has had the experience of role modelling patience with him and how powerful this can be; a sense that there is all the time in the world.
Kane also explores how patience plays out over the course of a whole co-created project, not just within a workshop. He thinks it is important not to rush people to the next stage of a process, as harm can be done to people by going too fast. He asks who projects are serving, the funder, arts organisation, or the people who are participating. It's okay to say that something is not ready, that more patience and time is needed for something to reach its full potential.
He talks about how important the quality of patience is to him in the choices he makes about the work he takes. Co-creating takes time and rushing it is disrespectful and care is lacking. He talks about the importance of being transparent about the pressures on a producer or commissioning company that might not have got all the money that they needed for a project. Professional and non-professional artists can get on board with the struggle facing a project if they understand the bigger story or context.
Kane also explores how people's personalities show up in the room and how some people might need to learn about how to be more patient when they are either leading or participating in a co-creative process. He talks about the importance of therapy as a support mechanism for artists that lead co-creative processes. Where do artists get support from when leading these processes? And how to artists learn to be patient and learn to be patient with themselves?
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Kane Husbands is the Founder and Artistic Director of The Pappy Show.
X: https://twitter.com/Kane_Husbands
IG: https://www.instagram.com/kane_husbands/
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #patient #letscreate #embodied
In this episode, London based theatre-maker Conrad Murray talks about the importance of being true to himself. He asks himself, 'would my younger self like me right now? Would this be real to him?'. He wants to ensure that he hasn't changed himself to adapt to the dominant culture of arts buildings and the culture of the arts world. He wants to make art that appeals to the people he grew up with and to stay grounded in his community. He thinks it is important to be really true to yourself and to really know yourself and your local community.
He reflects on the feedback that he has had over the years and how challenging this has been due to a lack of understanding of what he (or the people he is working with) are bringing into the room. Much of his practice is built around the young people that he co-creates with; their talents and limitations that they bring to the work. He talks about the importance of people being real and true to themselves, not pretending to be something they are not. He noticed a calmness in people who are able to be who they really are and talks about how vital this is for artists leading co-creative processes.
Conrad talks about the importance of being able to reveal something of who he is through the co-creative process. He might write lyrics that say something about his class or ethnic background and knows that this can build trust with the young people he works with. Like many of the artists interviewed in this podcast, he talks about how dangerous this work can be if it is not done properly. If artists do not fully embrace the trust and significance of the work in the lives of the young people he works with. He really cares about the young people he works with and their development and sees this dedication as central to the success of his work. He reflects on the privilege and responsibility of holding these relationships with young people he co-creates with.
He thinks that people are intuitive and can sense when an artist is not true to themselves, or bringing their whole selves to a process. He talks about how important it is for venues to really be a part of their community. For him, being part of his community in Battersea, has been perfect. He doesn't want to leave and 'develop' his career. He has developed deep knowledge and craft through the stability of doing one project for 15 years. He reflects that because of this, his presence at Battersea Arts Centre has changed the venue. It's not easy to be yourself in an institution that has different expectations and speaks a different language. He talks about when he was at youth theatre, some adults gave him a second chance and also really took the time to listen to him and understand who he is.
For years the Beatbox Academy did what is now known as 'relaxed performances' and got criticism for it. But he just did this because he was true to himself and his knowledge of what it takes for people to make it to see a show at the end of the day. Because he had the strength to be true to himself, the impact of this on the whole of Battersea Arts Centre and beyond has been huge. He now goes to deliver workshops at Drama School exercises that he made up in his bedroom. He believes 'Your power is being you.'
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Conrad Murray is the Founder and Artistic Director of the Beatbox Academy which runs at Battersea Arts Centre
X: https://twitter.com/rODIUMrECORDS
IG: https://www.instagram.com/rodium/ https://www.instagram.com/bac_beatbox_academy/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conrad-murray-a4b4ba183/
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #truetoyourself #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi talks to the freelance artist Kelly Green. Kelly reflects on how she is constantly being adaptable and flexible in her practice when co-creating. She talks about how she is in a state of high alert, observing and anticipating what is going on in a group. There is a discussion about how being adaptable and flexible shows up in the body; what happens when things go wrong and feelings of panic or dread show up for the artist leading the session. She is constantly ten steps ahead in a session, anticipating what might happen.
Kelly talks about the use of taking a break during a session when things start to go in an unanticipated direction, or the feeling in the room changes to something that doesn't feel safe. She reflects on the importance of having a tool box of things that you can do in any given moment that you can freely dip into, as things shift and evolve in the room.
There is a discussion about the importance of this quality in order to lead co-creation effectively, in order to really listen and really co-create in a community setting. There is a risk that if everyone tries to do co-created work that the quality suffers and the impact on people participating can be bad. Kelly argues that it is hugely skilful to co-create and that you are embodying more than one quality simultaneously, that it is a hugely skilful role to play.
Kelly describes the way that she responds to people in the room and what they offer. Their stories, the images they bring and their desires for what they want to do. She responds to people each week and really enjoys the process of collaborating in this way.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre . Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: https://twitter.com/naomi_ontheatre
IG: https://www.instagram.com/naomi.ontheatre/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomiontheatre/
Kelly Green is a Freelance Artist. You can find out more about her work here: https://www.kellyg.net/
X: https://twitter.com/kellygCHAV
IG: https://www.instagram.com/kellygchav/
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #adaptable #flexible #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi Alexander talks to Tashi Gore about the quality of Empathy and Care for Others; how artists as leaders of co-created art embody this in their work.
Tashi reflects on how she embodies care and empathy in the different contexts that she works in, whether working with 2 people or 100 people.
She discusses the importance of the context and people feeling heard within the group both at the start and end of each session. She talks about conventions that she establishes in her practice that she comes back to as a way of generating care and empathy within the group.
Tashi talks about how she has to enter a different state of being, turn off her phone and be completely present in the space. She embodies a way of being that is relaxed and alert at the same time. She listens with her body, sensing the energy in the room in order to embody care. She talks about being open, soft and approachable in order to be able to care for others.
They talk about physical contact and the importance of fully understanding the context within which work is taking place; how taking care is carefully expressed through establishing boundaries. This might be different in a young offenders institute, or an open drop in workshop, or in a setting working with older women.
Tashi also talks about the importance of having excellent Producers who also contribute to the care of the artistic process and participants as the artists. She also talks about the concept of self-care and how easy it is to forget this as artists that are focused on care for others. How do we encourage ourselves not to over-work and to care for ourselves? She talks about budgeting for recovering time for artists after leading a co-creative process, to reflect and recover from what has been achieved.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: @naomi_ontheatre
IG: @naomi.ontheatre
LinkedIn: @naomiontheatre
Tashi Gore is the CEO and Artistic Director of Glass Performance.
X: @glassperform
IG: @glassperformance
LinkedIn: @tashi-gore-12371898
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #empathy #care #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi Alexander talks to Dr Sita Thomas about the quality of being Grounded and Energetic; how artists as leaders of co-created art embody this in their work. Sita reflects on how she generates energy in a room and how she channels energy by being grounded.
Sita reflects on how important it is to be grounded, to be calm and rooted in her practice so she can pick what kind of energy she would like to generate in a session. She also talks about the importance of self-care; enough sleep, good food and not putting all your energy into work. Alongside this she connects with the purpose of the work to generate energy even when she is exhausted.
Sita also talks about how to observe the different energetic states of people who are co-creating with you. How do artists see each individual's energy and let them know they are seen and accepted before shifting everyone into a collective energetic state. She talks about observing Jude Kelly in action and the way she shifted her energy to work with different groups of people; how grounded she was in doing this.
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: @Naomi_ontheatre
Insta: @Naomi.ontheatre
LinkedIn: @naomiontheatre
Dr Sita Thomas is the CEO and Artistic Director of Fio. You can find out more about Dr Sita Thomas on her website here.
X: @wearefio @SitaThomas5
Insta: @wearefio @sitathomas5
LinkedIn: @dr-sita-thomas-frsa-422b1795 @fiocardiff
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #grounded #energetic #letscreate #embodied
In this episode Naomi Alexander talks to Ned Glasier about the quality of being Open and Humble; how artists as leaders of co-created art embody this in their work. Ned reflects on how being open manifests in the room and in the body of the artist leading the room. They discuss how an artist's body is almost porous in order to receive and respond during the creative process.
Ned reflects on how important it is to be genuinely open, to genuinely not know the answer when exploring a question creatively with a group of young people. Alongside this sits a humility to be influenced and shaped by the people in the room. Part of the discussion covers what happens in an artist's body in order to absorb other people's ideas and where in the body this happens.
What do artists need to do for themselves to get into a flow state in order to be open and humble? How do artists prepare psychologically to hold an open state of being when leading a creative process? And how do artists manage the moment of collision between being open to people's ideas and the need to make decisions in order to make a show/work of art? Why is it so important to be open and humble when leading co-creative practice?
Naomi Alexander is the CEO and Artistic Director of Brighton People's Theatre. Her AHRC funded research Let's Create: Do we know how to? identified 20 qualities, skills and responsibilities that are important for artists leading co-creative practice. The report and illustrations are available here.
X: @naomi_ontheatre
Insta: @naomi.ontheatre
LinkedIn: @naomiontheatre
Ned Glasier is the former CEO and Artistic Director of Company Three. He now works freelance. To find out more about his work visit his website here: http://nedglasier.com/
X: @ned_glasier
Insta: @nedglasier
#co-creation #theatre #leadership #arts #artist #open #humble #letscreate #embodied
