Nonprofit burnout is real — and rising. In this episode, Rusty Stahl welcomes back Dr. Elisha Smith Arrillaga, Vice President of Research at the Center for Effective Philanthropy (CEP). They discuss new data revealing how stress, vacancies, and limited funding flexibility are affecting nonprofit leaders and staff across the country.
They dig into CEP’s State of Nonprofits 2025 and Voices That Matter reports, exploring:
What’s driving staff burnout and morale loss
The disconnect between funder intent and nonprofit experience
How funders can actually help
Ways to use data to advocate for equity, sustainability, and smarter philanthropy
Elisha also shares a preview of CEP’s upcoming research on how the current administration’s “war on charity” is impacting the sector — and what innovations and risks are emerging in response.
The episode ends with a call for funders and nonprofits alike to use the research data on The State of Nonprofits to advocate for change and collaboration.
Related Episodes:
Resources & Links Mentioned:
CEP Conference 2025 — Opening plenary to feature new research on the impact of the “war on charity”
Advocacy expert Bethany Snyder joins Rusty Stahl to reveal how nonprofit leaders can reclaim their power, speak out boldly, and protect the sector from political attacks.
In this powerful episode of Fund the People, host Rusty Stahl sits down with advocacy strategist Bethany Snyder, founder of Snyder Strategies, to explore how nonprofits can — and must — use their voices boldly in today’s political climate. Snyder argues that the nonprofit sector is “on the menu” under the Trump administration’s attacks on civil society, and the only way off is to reclaim a seat at the policymaking table. With a mix of urgency and humor, she calls on nonprofit leaders to act from a place of strength, not fear, reminding them that their power is exactly why they’re being targeted.
Drawing on her career spanning grassroots campaigns, public policy, and a stint as a staffer for Senator Al Franken, Snyder shares practical guidance for organizations to build strategic advocacy programs — not “random acts of advocacy.” She breaks down her Advocacy Roadmap process, showing how nonprofits can engage their members, train effective advocates, and communicate clearly with lawmakers. Whether at the local, state, or federal level, her message is clear: advocacy isn’t optional — it’s essential to protecting your mission, your community, and the nonprofit sector itself.
Guest Bio:
Bethany Snyder, MPP, is the powerhouse behind Snyder Strategies, LLC, where she helps nonprofit and membership organizations build bold and effective advocacy programs that drive real change.
With nearly 25 years of experience spanning communications, advocacy, and public affairs, Bethany has worn many hats—grassroots advocacy director, lobbyist, consultant, communications director, and even a U.S. Senate staffer—bringing a wealth of expertise to every project she touches.
She is also the recent former Director of the Iowa Nonprofit Alliance, during which she Bethany championed the work of Iowa’s 23,000 nonprofit organizations and the professionals who power them, ensuring their voices were heard and amplified.
A proud Hawkeye with a BA from the University of Iowa and a Master of Public Policy from the University of Minnesota, Bethany’s dedication to community runs deep. She leads Central Iowa Rainbow Families, chairs One Iowa Action and the Urbandale Civil Rights Commission, and serves on the board of Family Equality, all while advocating for a more equitable future.
Links to Resources:
Bethany Snyder – Snyder Strategies
https://www.snyderstrategies.me/Bethany helps nonprofits and social justice organizations find their advocacy voice and build lasting policy impact.
Snyder Strategies Quiz - What’s Your Advocacy Edge? https://snyder-strategies.involve.me/nonprofit-advocacy-quiz
Advocacy With Sass (Bethany’s blog)
https://www.snyderstrategies.me/advocacy-with-sassA three-minute questionnaire to help you understand where you are on your advocacy journey—so you can move forward with clarity and confidence.
Senator Al Franken (D-MN) Bethany previously served as a staffer for Senator Franken during his first term in office.
CDC Smokefree Programs - Background on the national movement to promote smokefree air policies — the kind Bethany helped advance early in her career.
Foundations on the Hill - A national gathering where foundation and philanthropic leaders meet with federal lawmakers to advocate for charitable giving and organized philanthropy.
Bolder Advocacy (Alliance for Justice) - A top resource for nonprofit and foundation advocacy training, tools, and legal guidance.
The Adventures of Baron von Munchausen (One of the most under-rated yet joyfully wacky and amazing films of all time, according to Rusty)
Is your nonprofit stuck in an understaffing cycle, in which you need expertise but can't afford senior-level salaries? Are you overwhelmed by wearing multiple hats as an executive director, lacking specialized skills in fundraising, HR, or communications? What if there was a way to access experienced professionals without the full-time commitment?
Through this episode, you’ll learn about working with “fractional executives” – a practice where nonprofits engage a portion of an experienced professional's time to provide both strategic guidance and hands-on implementation of a key organizational function. You’ll get tips for when organizations are ready for fractional executives; how to find them; and how best to work with them. Our guest is Cindy Wagman, a Canadian fundraising consultant who has become a leading voice in the fractional executive practice for nonprofits. Wagman shares her journey from university fundraiser to consultant, how she evolved her own fractional executive model, and the training and matching services she has developed to help more people become fractional executives specifically for nonprofits, and help more nonprofits find them.
Wagman defines fractional executives as a unique blend of strategic thought and implementation, typically requiring 7+ years of direct experience in their function. Unlike traditional consultants who provide advice, fractional executives create plans and then execute them, working on retainer and focusing on deliverables and outcomes. She emphasizes this isn't a cost-saving measure but rather an optimization strategy, allowing small and mid-size nonprofits to access senior-level expertise they couldn't otherwise afford. The typical investment is comparable to hiring a junior-level employee but with significantly more experience and strategic capability.
The conversation covers practical guidance for both sides of the equation. For nonprofits considering fractional executives, and professionals considering becoming fractional consultants. Wagman has built an entire ecosystem around this model, including training programs through her Nonprofit Fractional Academy, a matchmaking service at nonprofitfractionals.com, and multiple podcasts. She advocates for funders to embrace investing in people and trust organizations to choose how to best structure their teams, whether through traditional hiring or fractional arrangements.
About Cindy Wagman:
Cindy Wagman helps seasoned nonprofit pros build six-figure consulting businesses—without the burnout. A former in-house leader turned business coach, she’s the founder of Cindy Wagman Consulting and the Nonprofit Fractional Network, and has guided 100+ consultants to grow profitable, values-driven practices.
She’s the bestselling author of Raise It!, co-host of Confessions with Jess and Cindy, and host of Fracture, a private podcast for nonprofit fractional execs ready to stop fixing broken systems and start building something better.
Nonprofit Executive's Guide to Hiring a Fractional Leader (free)
Matchmaking Service (find a fractional executive for your org)
Remember that old activist saying, "Don't mourn; organize"? Well, what if you're feeling deep disillusioned and disempowered by attacks on nonprofits and communities you love? Feeling dread as you witness beloved institutions and ideas get damaged or destroyed? How are you going to sustain morale through all this?
This episode offers language, tools, and pragmatic resources to help you or your team mourn, so that you can continue to organize. Our guest Meico Marquette Whitlock shares the concept of social impact grief. Whitlock discusses how this emotional response to setbacks, policy reversals, and systemic resistance is part of changemaking work, but often goes unacknowledged, creating a dynamic among activists he describes as "driving with the parking brake on."
The discussion includes practical strategies and exercises for both individuals and organizations to get back into gear. Meico emphasizes that grief isn't linear and shouldn't be avoided, but rather embraced as fuel for continued work.
The episode concludes with information about Whitlock's books, retreats, and consulting services, which position self-care as essential for sustainable social change work.
BIO:
Meico Marquette Whitlock is The Mindful Changemaker and The Mindful Techie. He works with changemakers who want to improve their well-being so they can sustainably increase their well-doing in changing the world. He's the author of the Amazon bestseller How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back: A Practical Guide for Taking Care of Yourself While Changing the World and The Intention Planner. He has worked for more than two decades across the nonprofit, public, and private sectors, during which time he has used information technology to improve well-being in underserved communities as a software and web developer, communications director, trainer and facilitator, and mindfulness teacher.
According to his website, Meico is a former triathlete, loves salsa dancing, and makes the world’s best vegan chili. He holds an M.S. in Information Science from the University of Michigan and a B.A. in Political Science and Spanish from Morehouse College. He is also a certified trauma-informed mindfulness teacher.
Related Episodes:
Nonprofit Staff Resilience and Well-Being in Turbulent Times with Loretta Turner
Wellbeing as Strategy: Reimagining Philanthropic Practice with Laura Bacon
Happy Healthy Nonprofit People with Beth Kanter
Resources Discussed in Episode:
Services:
Virtual Wellness Retreat for Changemakers (August 2025)
Publications:
Newsletter (scroll down main page to “Sign up for Updates” just above footer)
Book: How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back (here’s a digital preview of the book)
Book: The Intention Planner
Social Media:
Online Courses:
Post-Election Email Series:
In the episode, Rusty mentions that Fund the People used Meico's tips to help their team debrief after the election in fall 2024. Here are the emails Meico shared at that time. Although the election is in the rear view, the messages and tips are still relevant:
In this episode, you’ll learn how many-year grants can bolster nonprofit people and programmatic impact.
Host Rusty Stahl sits down with Betsy Leondar-Wright, Ph.D., the lead researcher at Fund the People, to discuss our brand-new report, Long-Haul Grantmaking.
Betsy brings decades of nonprofit leadership, social justice activism, and academic research to the conversation, and she shares how her personal experiences with underfunded, unstable nonprofit jobs shaped her passion for this work. Together, Rusty and Betsy explore the vital question: what happens when funders commit to long-term, flexible support for nonprofits with an emphasis on supporting employees?
Drawing from a case study of the Walter & Elise Haas Fund’s Endeavor Fund, which made seven-year unrestricted grants to seven Bay Area nonprofits, Betsy highlights transformative impacts for organizations and their staff. From stronger internal systems and fairer pay, to improved work-life balance, healthier collaboration, and greater program impact, the research shows how funding stability, paired with financial incentives to focus on job quality, directly translates to healthier, more effective nonprofits. Betsy also shares moving examples of staff and program participants whose lives have been improved by this approach—from frontline workers gaining access to healthcare and rest, to immigrant entrepreneurs modeling better job practices in their own small businesses.
This conversation offers funders and nonprofit leaders alike practical insights into how funding can shift from a cycle of scarcity to a model of sustainability. Listeners will also learn about an upcoming interactive webinar (October 10, 2025, 10am PT / 1pm ET) where Betsy and special guests will dive deeper into the findings and share strategies for overcoming barriers to many-year funding. Register to discover how embracing long-haul grantmaking can fuel high-performing people, organizations, and impact.
Betsy Leondar-Wright, Ph.D.
Betsy leads Staffing the Mission, Fund the People's research and dissemination arm. In this role, she serves as Principal Investigator of the Upgrading Nonprofit Workplaces study. The first publication from this research is Long-Haul Grantmaking report. Betsy joined the team when Staffing the Mission became part of Fund the People in late 2023.
Dr. Leondar-Wright is a veteran of 30+ years at economic justice nonprofits in various roles, including United for a Fair Economy. She has facilitated more than 250 popular education workshops around the US and the UK. As an Associate Professor of Sociology at Lasell University, she taught about race and class inequality and social movement strategy. She is the author of Missing Class: Strengthening Social Movement Groups by Seeing Class Cultures, and a co-author of The Color of Wealth: The Story Behind the US Racial Wealth Divide.
Related episodes:
Long-Haul Grantmaking Research:
Other Resources Discussed in the Episode:
CA Talent Justice Summit webpage
In the season premiere of Season 8, your host Rusty Stahl (Founder, President & CEO of Fund the People) outlines the season’s focus on strengthening and defending the nonprofit sector. He previews upcoming conversations with influential leaders such as Tonya Allen of McKnight Foundation, Deepak Bhargava of Freedom Together Foundation, and Michael Thatcher of Charity Navigator. Rusty shares a new Fund the People research report and webinar (10/10 at 10am PT) on ‘long-haul grantmaking’ that emphasize better jobs in nonprofits and will be featured on the podcast this season, alongside a forthcoming concept from Fund the People called “Staff Operating Support” (or “S.O.S.”) Grants, a new type of strategic, responsive funding meant to provide direct investments in nonprofit workers.
Rusty frames this season within the broader context of what he calls the Trump Administration’s War on Charity (#TrumpWarOnCharity), citing efforts to undermine First Amendment freedoms, nonprofits, charitable giving, and the nonprofit workforce. He discusses how euphemisms have obscured the severity of these threats, and emphasizes the need to speak plainly about the challenges facing the sector. He encourages nonprofit leaders to stand in solidarity with all other nonprofits. He invites listeners to make their nonprofit values visible by wearing FTP Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy gear.
The episode addresses current events, including the politicization of the horrific Charlie Kirk assassination, which Rusty argues has been exploited by the Trump Administration to justify attacks on progressive philanthropy and nonprofits. He details the flawed logic behind these narratives, putting his M.A. in Philanthropy from Indiana University up against a J.D. from Yale Law School. Finally, Rusty closes with a call to remain vigilant,and to follow Season 8 for research, tools, and practices to help you invest in the nonprofit workforce despite (or because of) the ongoing siege on our sector.
Bio:
Rusty Stahl serves as Founder, President, and CEO of Fund the People. Fund the People works to strengthen the effectiveness, impact, and sustainability of philanthropy and the social sector by maximizing investment in America’s nonprofit workforce.
Rusty is a tenacious, mission-focused thought-leader, social entrepreneur, and student of the field. Alongside his colleagues, Stahl has studied, developed ideas, and written extensively on what it takes to invest in the nonprofit workforce. This podcast is one of the places such exploration and learning takes place.
Before launching the organization, Rusty completed R&D for Fund the People as a Visiting Scholar in Residence at NYU’s Wagner School of Public Service. Previously he served as Founding Executive Director of Emerging Practitioners in Philanthropy (EPIP) and as a Program Associate at the Ford Foundation. He holds an M.A. in Philanthropic Studies from Indiana University.
Resources:
Related Episodes:
What happens when a major foundation president decides to speak out boldly during a crisis? How can philanthropy surge resources to protect nonprofit workers facing unprecedented job losses? In this season finale of the Fund the People Podcast, host Rusty Stahl sits down with John Palfrey, President of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, to explore how courage becomes contagious in times of sector-wide attacks. You'll discover the real math behind foundation payout increases, learn why one foundation moved from 5% to 6% giving (adding $150 million over two years), and understand the strategic thinking behind multi-year general operating support.
Palfrey shares the behind-the-scenes story of how MacArthur Foundation responded to federal cuts targeting nonprofits—from increasing their payout rate to joining solidarity campaigns that have gathered nearly 700 institutional signatures. He offers frank "real talk" about the trade-offs of long-term funding, explains why he believes in the constitutional "freedom to give," and discusses how foundations calculated that nonprofit grantees lost about 12% of their federal funding. This conversation reveals both the possibilities and limitations of philanthropic response during crisis.
As attacks on nonprofits continue through 2025, this episode provides essential insights for anyone working in or with the social sector. Whether you're a nonprofit leader wondering how to navigate funding relationships, a foundation professional considering how to increase impact, or simply someone who believes in the power of organized giving, you'll gain practical knowledge about how major philanthropy is adapting to meet this unprecedented moment—and why taking summer breaks might be the most important advice of all.
Funding for Real Change - fundingforrealchange.com (true cost initiative tools)
Season 5, Episode 7: "The Great Double Standard" (Rusty's rant about foundation overhead policies)
Season 4, Episode 10: “MacArthur Foundation Makes Changes to End Nonprofit Starvation Cycle – with Kenneth Jones, MacArthur Foundation” interview about MacArthur's indirect cost policy
Season 7, Episode 17: “Meet the Moment: A Call to Action for Funders – with Shaady Salehi, Trust-Based Philanthropy Project”
Season 7, Episode 1: “Do Funders Understand the Nonprofit Burnout Crisis? – with Elisha Smith Arrillaga, CEP” on the 2024 State of Nonprofits
HR 9495 - "The Big, Bloated Bill" (link to Congress.gov full text)
Center for Effective Philanthropy “State of Nonprofits 2025: What Funders Need to Know”
John Palfrey's guest post on CEP blog “Courage in Unity: A Funder’s Response to the ‘State of Nonprofits’” (June 3, 2025 response to the report)
Council on Foundations public solidarity sign-on campaign - (694+ institutional signatures supporting philanthropy's freedom to give)
"Meet the Moment" commitment - Trust-based philanthropy pledge (nearly 200 institutional signatures)
Bio
John Palfrey is President of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, one of the nation’s largest philanthropies with assets of approximately $8 billion.
Prior to joining the Foundation, Palfrey served as Head of School at Phillips Academy Andover. During his tenure, the number of faculty members of color doubled, and the student body grew more diverse.
Palfrey was the Henry N. Ess III Professor of Law and Vice Dean for Library and Information Resources at Harvard Law School.
Palfrey served as Executive Director of the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society. He is founding board chair of the Digital Public Library of America, and is the former board chair of LRNG.
Palfrey has published extensively on how young people learn in a digital era, as well as the effects of new technologies on society at large. Palfrey holds a JD from Harvard Law School, an MPhil from the University of Cambridge, and an AB from Harvard College.
Why are so many talented community organizers burning out and leaving the field just when we need them most? What would it look like if nonprofits collectively committed to improving wages and working conditions for the people doing the most essential work in our movements? How can funders shift from perpetuating a cycle of underpayment to investing in the workforce that drives social change?
In this episode, you’ll get promising ideas from guests who are answering these questions with practical, real-world efforts on the ground. Host Rusty Stahl sits down with Kara Park from All Due Respect, and Gaby Hernandez from Órale, to explore a groundbreaking project in Southern California where 20 organizations came together to create shared labor standards for the community organizers on their teams. Through candid conversation, they reveal findings from their compensation study showing that organizers are making an average of $57,000 while directors wish they could pay $65,000, and that there's a troubling salary plateau that pushes experienced organizers out of the field after five years. The guests share how their collective, multi-organizational approach moved beyond individual organizations to create more system-wide change, including transparent pay scales, wellness budgets, and a direct appeal to funders.
This conversation offers practical insights for any nonprofit leaders grappling with staff recruitment, compensation, and retention, funders seeking to make meaningful impact, and anyone who believes that the people fighting for justice deserve to thrive while doing that work. Kara and Gaby demonstrate that addressing burnout requires both better compensation and improved working conditions - you can't have one without the other. Their work provides a roadmap for how organizations can move from accepting poverty wages as inevitable to collectively demanding the resources needed to sustain a powerful movement for social change.
Resources:
Bios
Kara Park (she/her) is an organizer, facilitator and coalition builder with over a decade of experience in state and national social justice movements. Her work has included grassroots organizing, issue-based advocacy, civic engagement, leadership development and political education, including consulting on curriculum and training for multiple organizations. Kara has served as the Director of Programs for Asian American organizing efforts in both Minnesota and Oregon, building state-based power and leading organizational strategy and program development. In 2017, she helped to pass Oregon's landmark Reproductive Health Equity Act, which has since become a model for multiple other state policy campaigns. Kara has also worked as Civic Engagement Manager for Forward Together, a national organization that unites communities to win rights, recognition and resources for all families, and co-created an Asian and Pacific Islander reproductive justice storytelling project called We Carry Oceans.
Gaby Hernandez is the Executive Director of ÓRALE, an immigrant-led organization dedicated to dismantling the criminalization of immigrants and securing protections that allow communities to flourish. Gaby
This episode updates you on how the Big, Bloated Bill in Congress will impact nonprofits and philanthropy. And this week’s interview offers a deep dive into how the proposed law would impact nonprofits that hold up America’s social safety net.
What happens when government cuts to essential services threaten to recreate the horrors of decades past? How do nonprofits navigate serving vulnerable populations while fighting for their very existence? In this powerful episode, Edward Hershey, CEO of Home of Guiding Hands, reveals the critical connection between defending democracy and protecting society's most vulnerable members—people with intellectual and developmental disabilities who depend on services that are now under unprecedented threat.
Hershey shares the stark reality of operating a $35 million nonprofit with 1,200 employees while 90% dependent on government funding that's facing massive cuts. From paying payroll on credit cards due to delayed government payments to witnessing a 40% underfunding crisis finally addressed only to be threatened again, his organization's story illuminates how attacking nonprofits, government programs, and philanthropic funding creates a dangerous triple threat to democratic values. The conversation traces a direct line from the horrific institutional conditions exposed by Geraldo Rivera in the 1970s to today's policy decisions that could force a return to those dark days.
Through personal accounts of rallying 300 constituents, confronting elected officials, and maintaining hope among staff and clients, Hershey demonstrates that defending democracy isn't abstract—it's about ensuring that government remains "of the people, for the people" by protecting the infrastructure that cares for those who cannot advocate for themselves. His message is clear: we are judged as a society by how we treat our most vulnerable, and preserving that care is preserving democracy itself.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org.
Resources:
Rally footage/media:
KPBS Monday 5/26
KPBS "San Diego News Now" podcast (2:07 mark)
FOX 5 aired footage 5/26 at 1:05 pm and re-aired 5/27 at 6:08 am and 9:08 am
KUSI aired footage 5/26 4:07 pm, 6:08 pm, and 5/27 at 5:16 am
10 News mentioned the rally in their morning newscast at 5:42 am
Bio:
Edward Hershey is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Home of Guiding Hands. He assumed his role with HGH on September 1, 2021. Edward began his career at HGH in 2015 as the Vice President of Operations and was then promoted to Chief Operating Officer. Edward has 27- years of management experience in directing all facets of business operations, with expertise in operations and project management. Prior to joining Home of Guiding Hands, Edward worked for Father Joe’s Villages as their Vice President of Operations for 12 years, and for the Employment Development Department where he specialized in Veteran’s needs. Edward served in the US Navy during the Gulf War and was honorably discharged in 1993. He serves on the Board for the California Disability Services Institute, and the California Disability Services Association. He volunteers his time for Boy Scouts of America and the VFW. Edward holds a Master’s Degree in Human Resource Management with a Specialization in Strategic Innovation and Change Management from Colorado State University and a Bachelor’s Degree in Organizational Leadership with a Specialization in Public and Non-Profit Management. Edward is a graduate of the National Leadership Consortium on Developmental Disabilities, a licensed California Contractor, and is a member of the John Maxwell team certified as a leadership coach, speaker, and trainer. He lives in El Cajon with his wife of 16 years Jessica and their three children, Julia, Niko, and Ethan.
Are you curious about the true scope and scale of nonprofit employment in America? Ever wonder how nonprofit jobs weathered the pandemic compared to for-profit jobs? In this episode, host Rusty Stahl speaks with Dr. Alan J. Abramson and Chelsea Newhouse, both of George Mason University, about the numbers behind the nonprofit workforce, and their implications for funders, policymakers, and nonprofit leaders.
The conversation reveals crucial facts about nonprofit employment based on George Mason’s latest report. Abramson and Newhouse discuss how nonprofits lost 580,000 workers during the early pandemic but weathered the initial downturn better than for-profits. They explore common misconceptions about nonprofit funding and highlight how the sector has struggled to fully restore its workforce.
Our guests introduce their Nonprofit Works, a free, user-friendly tool that provides high-level data about how many Americans earn a living through nonprofit work, and how much money nonprofits add to the economy in annual wages. The database allows users to segment this data by sub-sector and geography, and compare it to business and government jobs. The numbers are drawn from federal Department of Labor data, but the nonprofit employment data are published extremely infrequently, and only with help from scholars at a private, nonprofit university. Alan and Chelsea argue that better, more frequent releases of nonprofit workforce data – including relevant data collected by other federal agencies – would help nonprofit workers gain the visibility and support they deserve in public policy, the media, academic research, and among private funders.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org.
Bios:
Alan J. Abramson is director of the Center on Nonprofits, Philanthropy, and Social Enterprise, in the Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University. He teaches and conducts research on the nonprofit sector and philanthropy, and has worked to save and sustain work done at Johns Hopkins University by his late colleague, Dr. Lester Solomon. For more than a decade, Dr. Abramson directed the Aspen Institute’s Nonprofit Sector and Philanthropy Program. Before that he worked at the Urban Institute. Alan is the author and coauthor of numerous books and articles, and is involved with multiple academic associations related to the nonprofit sector. Dr. Abramson received his PhD in political science from Yale University.
Chelsea Newhouse is a consultant on the George Mason University’ Nonprofit Employment Data Project and Senior Program Manager at East-West Management Institute. Prior to joining the East-West Management Institute in 2022, Chelsea was at the the Johns Hopkins Center for Civil Society Studies, where she worked closely with late Center Director Lester Salamon on the Nonprofit Economic Data Project and the Nonprofit Works Interactive Database, the Comparative Nonprofit Sector Project, and a variety of other research projects focused on the nonprofit, philanthropic, and volunteer sector. Following Dr. Salamon’s passing, she helped transfer the Nonprofit Employment Data Project to George Mason University. Chelsea has also served as a consultant with Maryland Nonprofits and the New York Council of Nonprofits.
Resources:
What's at stake when nonprofits and democracy are under attack? How can organizations respond effectively to threats against their tax status and Constitutional rights? In this illuminating conversation, Rusty speaks with Mike Zamore, National Director of Policy and Government Affairs at the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), about the unprecedented challenges facing nonprofits in today's political climate.
Mike Zamore draws from his 22 years of Capitol Hill experience and current ACLU leadership to explain how nonprofits are essential to America's constitutional framework of checks and balances. He details recent fights against attempts to weaponize government power against nonprofits, including legislation that would have allowed stripping organizations of tax-exempt status without due process. The conversation highlights parallels between threats to individual liberties and threats to nonprofit First Amendment freedoms.
The discussion concludes with practical advice for nonprofits in red states and red districts to effectively engage with Republican representatives regarding the upcoming tax reconciliation bill that could adversely affect the sector. Zamore emphasizes the importance of solidarity, encouraging nonprofits to stand together against intimidation tactics, and that reminding us that maintaining collective courage is crucial for preserving both Constitutional rights and the ability to serve communities.
This episode was recorded the morning of May 9, 2025, before the House Ways and Means Committee revealed the language in their portion of the proposed tax bill, which includes re-introduction of H.R. 9495.
Click here for resources on new tax bill.
Resources referenced in the episode:
"Meet the Man Who Wants to Tax Most of the Nonprofit World" by Ben Gose
Filibustered!: How to Fix the Broken Senate and Save America, co-authored by Senator Jeff Merkley and Mike Zamore
Harvard statement "Upholding Our Values, Defending Our University" and lawsuit against the government
FTP Podcast Episode “Dr. King, AmeriCorps, & Nonprofit Work - with Michael Smith, AmeriCorps”
“AmeriCorps members who respond to disasters and help nonprofits are let go in DOGE cuts”
Guest Bio:
Mike Zamore is the National Director of Policy & Government Affairs at the ACLU, where he leads efforts to harness the organization’s vast expertise, 4 million members and supporters, paid staff in every state, and electoral work to shape federal, state, and local policy.
Mike is a 22-year veteran of Capitol Hill, and spent over 14 years as the Chief of Staff to Senator Jeff Merkley, an Oregon Democrat first elected in 2008. As Merkley’s top aide, Mike managed a 50+ person staff and $4 million budget, counseled the Senator on legislative and political strategy, represented the Senator to various constituencies, and led two successful re-elections.
Prior to joining Senator Merkley, Mike was the Policy Director at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, where he assisted the 2008 Senate candidates develop their positions on the issues. Mike earlier served as Policy Advisor to Representative Patrick Kennedy and spearheaded Kennedy’s legislative agenda, including mental health parity legislation that became law in 2008, and spoke frequently on health systems reform. Earlier in his career, he spent several years working on business development projects in the early days of post-Soviet Russia and clerked for Judge Allyne R. Ross on the Eastern District of New York.
Mike is an adjunct faculty member at American University’s Washington College of Law. He graduated from Brown University and Harvard Law School, lives in Washington, DC with his wife and two sons.
Are you concerned about high turnover in youth-serving nonprofits? Wondering why dedicated staff working with vulnerable young people struggle to make ends meet? In this episode, you’ll get findings from groundbreaking research on the wage crisis among youth-serving nonprofit workers in San Francisco, and what can be done to address it. Host Rusty Stahl interviews Madison Holland, founder of the Prosperity Initiative.
Madison shares key findings from their recent report revealing that this workforce is predominantly women (69%) and people of color (80%), with over half not earning a living wage, and 40% working multiple jobs to survive. The research identifies how low wages create a harmful cycle: poor staff retention leads to deteriorating service quality, and ultimately worse outcomes for youth. Most critically, this undermines the trusted relationships that vulnerable young people need with consistent adult mentors, the very foundation of effective nonprofit youth work.
The conversation explores solutions targeting different stakeholders: government funders must cover full program costs and reduce administrative burdens; philanthropic funders should provide unrestricted multi-year funding; and nonprofits themselves need to leverage collective power by refusing to underprice their services and explicitly prioritizing staff well-being in budgets. Madison emphasizes that investing in the nonprofit workforce isn't just about fairness to workers—it's essential for achieving meaningful outcomes for the young people these organizations serve.
Bio:
Madison Holland graduated from the University of San Diego with a bachelor’s degree in Psychology (Childhood Development emphasis) and Political Studies (Social Justice emphasis). She later earned a Master’s degree in Urban and Public Affairs from the University of San Francisco, focusing her thesis on legislation related to juvenile hall closures.
With over ten years of experience working with children in various roles and settings, Madison most recently served as the Director of Advocacy and Government Relations at the Boys & Girls Clubs of San Francisco. There, she led advocacy efforts, managed government funding, and oversaw mentorship and youth advocacy programs. Madison has been actively involved in the Children & Youth Fund’s Service Providers Working Group for seven years, where she contributed significantly to budget advocacy work, membership engagement, resource and infrastructure development, and more.
Madison is passionate about preventing burnout, building a healthier youth-serving nonprofit workforce, and redefining narratives around working in the nonprofit sector. She believes that choosing a career dedicated to serving others should not require sacrificing personal well-being. She was a fundamental part of driving the work to obtain grant funds that led to the creation of the Prosperity Initiative.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.
Prosperity Initiative - find the report, download related materials, subscribe to their newsletter, and connect with their work.
madison@prosperityinitiative.org
Are you concerned about the recent attacks on nonprofit funding? Wondering how the sudden dissolution of USAID and cuts to federal agencies are impacting vital organizations and the communities they serve? In this eye-opening installment of our Defend Nonprofits / Defend Democracy series, host Rusty Stahl delivers critical updates on the Trump Administration's actions against nonprofits, and speaks with Laura Andes, Chief Operations and Program Officer at Charity Navigator about how these cuts are affecting nonprofit organizations and leaders across America and globally.
Rusty begins with alarming updates on recent developments, including the hostile takeover of the federal grants portal, AmeriCorps staff furloughs, attacks on the Vera Institute of Justice, and legislation that would limit courts' ability to stop illegal administrative actions. He emphasizes the estimated loss of 10,000-20,000 nonprofit jobs. And he highlights concerning precedents that may be set through attacks on universities and other 501(c)(3) organizations. These moves represent a coordinated assault on both government services and the nonprofit sector that traditionally fills gaps when government falls short.
Laura Andes from Charity Navigator joins us to share insights from her decade on staff at USAID and her current role evaluating nonprofit effectiveness. Andes details Charity Navigator's response—creating resource lists of affected highly-rated organizations and launching a "Giving Is American" campaign to encourage immediate support. Both Rusty and Laura urge listeners to take action: donate now rather than waiting until year-end, encourage foundations to increase payouts, and if you're in a red state or district, contact your elected Senators and Member of Congress about the value nonprofits bring to communities and the need to keep attacks on nonprofits out of the tax bill.
Bio
Laura Andes is an evaluation professional with 20 years of experience in the non-profit and government sectors. She is the Chief Program Officer, where she oversees the development of the Encompass Rating System. Before this role, she served as Vice President of Impact Ratings. She joined Charity Navigator in 2021, having considerable experience, most notably implementing and evaluating global health programs, and developing enhanced placed-based service programs in affordable housing domestically. She holds a B.S. in Chemistry from the University of Michigan (Go Blue!) and an M.P.H. from Yale University. In her free time, you will find Laura exploring the mountains near her home in Colorado with her husband and two children.
Resources from Episode
For an extensive list of action items, go to the show notes page on our website: https://www.fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast/red-state-nonprofits/. You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org.
Action Opportunities
Sign your organization to The Pact: A Civil Rights Coalition Unity Commitment
Add your foundation to the new pledge to support nonprofits through this crisis, Meet the Moment Commitment: A Call to Action for Philanthropy in 2025 (and Beyond)
Sign your foundation on to the Public Statement from Philanthropy, a pledge of solidarity among funders
Are you questioning the sustainability of leadership practices in your organization? How might centering the experiences and perspectives of women of color transform leadership in the social sector? What would it look like if funders truly listened to what nonprofit organizations need and responded accordingly? In this powerful episode, Rusty speaks with Safi Jiroh, Executive Director of LeaderSpring Center, to answer some of these questions.
This episode delves into LeaderSpring's evolution from supporting only executive directors to creating a fellowship for women of color leaders at all levels in nonprofits. Safi discusses how the organization redesigned its curriculum to address systemic barriers and promote liberatory leadership practices while challenging unsustainable expectations in the nonprofit sector.
Safi offers profound insights on what women of color bring to leadership roles, including community, empathy, lived experience, love, resilience, intuition, and truth-telling as primary contributions. The discussion tackles the current political climate where diversity, equity, and inclusion work is under attack, with Safi emphasizing the need to "fight to dream" and "fight to innovate" despite opposition. She challenges philanthropy to examine practices that create "bondage for nonprofit organizations" and to demonstrate the will to change by releasing control and embracing vulnerability.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.
Bio
Safi’s deep family and cultural history of social and racial justice rooted in an ethic of love, service, and liberation in Oakland, California, formed her fierce dedication to servant leadership and development of a strong racial justice lens in life and work. Her over 25 years of experience in the public and social sectors as a leader, grant maker, consultant, facilitator, and volunteer have been the portals through which her life-long commitment to the advancement of human dignity has manifested. Safi brings her keen lens of racial equity and social justice to our Fellowship program, of which she is an alumna, and Impact Consulting work.
Prior to LSC, Safi’s leadership positions included: Executive Director of the Marcus Foster Educational Institute, Executive Director of Banning Cultural Alliance, Community Faculty Fellow with the Center for the Arts at the California College of Arts, and Grants and Nonprofit Management Analyst for the City of Oakland’s Cultural Arts Department. In each position, Safi established equity-centered foci to aspect of the work. As a licensed minister with a Master of Arts in Spiritual Formation and Leadership, she works at the intersections of faith, formation, and justice. She has been an independent organizational capacity building consultant and facilitator since 1990 supporting hundreds of projects, a certified Integral® Coach since 1999, and has served on numerous local, state, and national Boards and public policy committees, commissions, and task forces. She is a keynote speaker, a former dancer, and a private poet.
Resources
How are nonprofits surviving in today's challenging political climate? What happens when government funding freezes threaten essential services? How are state nonprofit associations becoming the backbone of sector defense?
In this thought-provoking installment of Fund the People’s "Defend Nonprofits Defend Democracy" series, host Rusty Stahl engages in a candid conversation with Nanoko Sato, President and CEO of the Minnesota Council of Nonprofits (MCN). They discuss the critical challenges facing nonprofits under the Trump Administration.
What does it look like when nonprofits and foundations unite to protect vulnerable communities? How can organizations navigate uncertain policies while staying true to their values? And, most importantly, where can we find hope and resilience in a time when the sector itself is under attack?
Whether you're a nonprofit leader seeking practical insights, a funder considering how to respond effectively, or another infrastructure group in the field, this episode offers valuable perspective on defending democracy through a strong, united nonprofit sector.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.
Nonoko Sato Bio:
Nonoko Sato is the president and CEO for the Minnesota Council of Nonprofits, the largest state association for nonprofits in the United States. She oversees MCN’s strategic response to organizational and sector challenges through public policy and advocacy, responsive and educational programming, and sector-wide research.
Nonoko serves or has served in a variety of advisory, board, and trustee roles, including Governor Walz’s Council on Economic Expansion, Equity Diversity Impact Assessment Committee of the Minneapolis Public Schools, Coalition of Asian American Leaders, Theater Mu, Carleton College, among others. She previously served as MCN’s associate director, overseeing internal operations, programming, finance, and administration, as well as launching BenefitsMN, an association health plan for nonprofit organizations that strives to increase the vitality of Minnesota nonprofits through access to affordable and sustainable healthcare.
Prior to these roles, Nonoko served as the executive director of an organization that champions educational equity by supporting students in overcoming systemic barriers on their journey to a college degree. Under her leadership, the organization tripled the number of students and expanded its services through high school. In all her roles, Nonoko is dedicated to enhancing and improving cultural humility, intentionally creating inclusive and accessible spaces, and working to end disparities in power, money, access, and resources.
Resources:
Minnesota Council of Nonprofits
In this episode, host Rusty Stahl welcomes Loretta Turner, founder of Do Good Leadership Collective, for an insightful conversation about nonprofit wellbeing in challenging times. Loretta shares her journey from yoga instructor to nonprofit leader to wellbeing coach and consultant. She discusses how her personal experience with burnout and receiving nonprofit services after losing her home shaped her mission to help social impact professionals "do good and be well." She offers a multidimensional view of wellbeing that goes beyond surface-level solutions like yoga classes or team-building activities, advocating instead for comprehensive approaches that include equitable pay, robust benefits, mental health support, and sustainable organizational cultures.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into what Loretta calls the "nonprofit zones of delusion" - harmful mindsets like savior complexes, scarcity thinking, and the glorification of burnout that plague the sector. The conversation explores how nonprofit professionals have been conditioned to "do more with less," making them uniquely equipped to face current challenges while emphasizing the critical importance of rest and resilience. Loretta also discusses how funders can meaningfully invest in wellbeing by moving beyond one-off grants to supporting sustainable organizational cultures where wellbeing is integrated into strategic planning.
This timely episode offers both practical wisdom and inspiration for nonprofit leaders navigating an era of attacks on the sector. Loretta explains her involvement with the Talent Justice movement and shares exciting initiatives from Do Good Leadership Collective, including monthly "slowdown events" in San Diego and the development of a coaching collective specifically for nonprofit professionals. Whether you're experiencing burnout, looking to create a more supportive organizational culture, or seeking to fund wellbeing effectively, this conversation provides frameworks and strategies to help social impact professionals not just survive, but thrive in their important work.
Bio
Loretta is an exceptional conscious social entrepreneur, leadership coach, and advocate for talent justice and workplace wellbeing. As the Founder of Do Good Leadership Collective, Loretta’s work focuses on helping nonprofit and social impact professionals prioritize healing, sustainability, and wellbeing in their work. She brings nearly 15 years of experience as both a nonprofit leader and wellness practitioner to her work, alongside a deep trust in and connection to ancestral wisdom. Loretta believes in helping the helpers, and knows that sustainable impact is only possible when we lead with a sense of care and belonging for ourselves and those around us.
Resources
This episode offers a valuable, concrete opportunity for funders to collectively and individually support their grantee organizations and the nonprofit sector, and to break out of a period of general confusion, silence, and inaction. In this fourth installment of our bi-weekly “Defend Nonprofit, Defend Democracy” Series, host Rusty Stahl sits down in-person with Shaady Salehi, co-executive director of the Trust-Based Philanthropy Project. They discuss a new action pledge designed to unite philanthropic funders in support of nonprofits in this new political period of political attacks on nonprofits and philanthropy, fear of speaking out, destabilized government funding, and increasing demand on nonprofits. Shaady introduces the "Commitment for Trust-Based Action," a funder pledge developed by Trust-Based Philanthropy Project, Grantmakers for Effective Organizations, and the National Center for Family Philanthropy. The pledge outlines three key commitments: moving in solidarity with nonprofits; mobilizing money in a trust-based way; and nurturing possibility and innovation.
The conversation highlights how nonprofits are facing unprecedented challenges, with 90% reporting negative impacts from federal policies. Salehi emphasizes practical actions funders can take, including offering multiyear unrestricted funding, increasing grant budgets, simplifying application processes, and considering alternative funding structures like gifts instead of grants. She explains these recommendations were developed by listening directly to nonprofit leaders who reported feeling isolated and pulled in different directions by uncoordinated funder responses.
Salehi also discusses how this commitment addresses the need to resource nonprofit leaders' creativity and strategic thinking as they reimagine their work for a dramatically different future. She encourages foundations to support connection and convening among nonprofits and explore creative funding opportunities beyond traditional 501c3 structures. The initiative aims to create a united front for the social sector during turbulent times, with Salehi inviting both funders to sign on and nonprofits to share the commitment with their funders to start conversations.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.
Bio
Shaady Salehi is the co-executive director of the Trust-Based Philanthropy Project, a 5-year learning and advocacy initiative to make trust-based practices the norm in the philanthropic sector. Throughout her career, Shaady has worked in various social sectors using strategic communications to galvanize coalitions, establish legacies, generate buy-in, and strengthen networks. Previously, Shaady was Managing Director of Distribution and Impact at ITVS, where she led a team to advance the reach and impact of documentaries on public television. Prior to ITVS, she was Executive Director of Active Voice, a pioneering organization that uses storytelling to catalyze social change. Shaady is a 2014 Aspen Institute Fellow and sits on the board of Let It Ripple, a nonprofit that experiments with collaborative filmmaking for the common good. She holds an M.S. in Strategic Communications from Columbia University, an M.A. in Anthropology from UC Davis, and a B.A. in Anthropology from Oberlin College.
Resources
Meet the Moment: A Call to Action for Philanthropy
CEP report: How U.S. Nonprofit Leaders Are Experiencing the Political Context
Trust-Based Philanthropy Project
Grantmakers for Effective Organizations
National Center for Family Philanthropy
In this episode, host Rusty Stahl speaks with Aria Florant, co-founder and CEO of Liberation Ventures (LV), about navigating internal conflict within nonprofits. Aria shares her personal experiences and challenges in leading LV, particularly around issues of power dynamics and organizational culture. Liberation Ventures is a grantmaking intermediary that works toward reparations for slavery.
Rusty and Aria talk about the complexities of power within nonprofits, including the need for leaders to acknowledge and mindfully wield their power. They also discuss the importance of creating a culture of repair, where conflict is addressed openly and proactively, and where staff members at all levels feel empowered.
This episode gives actionable insights for nonprofit leaders and funders, and advocates for greater investment in organizational wellness and practices that support healthy team dynamics. Tune in to hear how addressing internal issues is crucial not only for the well-being of staff but also for the overall effectiveness and impact of the organization.
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.
Resources
Liberation Ventures: A Dream in Our Name, by Aria Florant
we will not cancel us, by adrienne maree brown
Building Resilient Organizations, by Maurice Mitchell
The Four Pivots: Reimagining Justice, Reimagining Ourselves, by Shawn A. Ginwright, PhD
My Grandmother’s Hands, by Resmaa Menakem
What it Takes to Heal, by Prentis Hemphill
Building a Reparative Organization and Nation, by Aria Florant
Liberation Ventures_Building A Reparative Organization_Framework & Tool
In the third installment of our "Defend Nonprofits, Defend Democracy" series, Fund the People’s President and CEO Rusty Stahl discusses recent attacks on the nonprofit sector by the Trump Administration. He lifts up one recent example: an order to change to the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. The administration's executive order would disqualify service at nonprofits or government agencies working on issues like immigrant rights, equity and inclusion, and LGBTQ rights from counting toward loan forgiveness, effectively targeting both workers in public service careers, and the communities they serve.
Stahl examines how these attacks are part of an integrated approach by the administration that simultaneously targets marginalized communities, government agencies, nonprofit organizations, and the First Amendment of the Constitution —undermining legal and civic infrastructure that has long enjoyed bipartisan support. He notes that this approach is more authoritarian than previous administrations as it not only scapegoats vulnerable populations but also attacks the platforms through which people organize and solve problems.
The podcast highlights the growing tension between nonprofits and philanthropic funders, with many foundations hesitant to speak out for fear of retaliation. Stahl acknowledges that some foundations like Robert Wood Johnson, Barr Foundation, and Public Welfare Foundation have issued strong statements, made emergency funds available, ir increased payout, but encourages more individual and collective action.
He concludes by urging listeners to share stories of harm experienced by nonprofits through various data collection initiatives to help advocates and policymakers understand the real-world impact of these attacks.
In this episode, you’ll get an inside view of the contradictions funders face when it comes to investing in the nonprofit workforce. And you’ll get the back-story of how Fund the People’s California Talent Justice Summit came to be.
Fund the People’s President and CEO, Rusty Stahl, speaks with Leslie Payne, a former Initiative Director at the James Irvine Foundation, and current principal at Penlight Advising. Leslie shares her journey in recognizing the contradiction of being a workforce and jobs development funder while not addressing job quality in the grantee nonprofits organizations that provide workforce development services to Californians. The conversation explores how this realization led to the California Talent Justice Summit and other initiatives to improve nonprofit job quality.
The discussion highlights several tensions in addressing nonprofit job quality, including funding restrictions, wage compression, and sustainability challenges. Leslie emphasizes the importance of funders using their voice alongside their dollars, nonprofits understanding their full costs, and creating mechanisms for staff input. A recurring theme is the need for nonprofit leaders to develop the capacity to say "no" to certain opportunities when they would compromise staff wellbeing, even when the work would benefit communities they serve.
Tune in to hear about these key points:
The contradiction of being a ‘quality jobs funder’ while not addressing job quality in nonprofits that are grantees and where funders had the most influence.
Program-specific funding can create pay inequity within nonprofit organizations when funders mandate higher wages only for staff in funded programs.
Wage compression occurs when raising the floor of wages without raising the ceiling, causing resentment among longer-tenured or higher-responsibility staff.
Trust-based philanthropy is complicated when it becomes specific about job quality standards, creating tension in funder-grantee relationships.
Program-specific grants are particularly problematic compared to general operating support, which provides flexibility while funders can still use their voice to encourage better job quality.
Nonprofits face constant pressure to grow and innovate, but lack incentives or tolerance to stop programs even when staff are stretched thin.
Leaders need to build the capacity to say "no" to certain opportunities and create mechanisms for staff input on priorities and job quality needs.
Resources
https://haassr.org/blog/we-need-to-talk-about-nonprofitjob-quality-more/
https://ncg.org/news/resourcing-nonprofit-ecosystem-our-first-line-defense
You can find all the episodes of this podcast plus our blog, toolkit and other resources at fundthepeople.org. And we invite you to learn from all the amazing past guests of Fund the People - A Podcast with Rusty Stahl at fundthepeople.org/ftp_podcast.
