Defence analyst Hugh White says Australian leaders are in denial about how dramatically the world has changed, and need to get a grip on the deep, troubling forces propelling us into a new order of world power. The balance of global power has changed dramatically over the last 25 years. Even in the last five years, so much has happened - the pandemic, AUKUS, the war in Ukraine, a change of government here in Australia, Donald Trump's return to the White House, and all the tumult that has followed over the past six months. According to defence analyst Hugh White, we are quickly heading into a post-American world. However, Australia's defence assumptions remain based on a world which America built for us, where the United States is still a predominant world power that is heavily invested in Asia, and in us. Hugh says political leaders in Australia are in denial about all of this, and need to get their heads out of the sand, accept the the world as we knew it is passing away, and redefine our relationships with powerful nations including the United States and China in order to make our way in this new world. We've done it before, with the United Kingdom in the post-World War II years, and we need to do it again, Hugh says. Further information You can read Hugh White's essay, Hard New World: Our Post-American Future, in the June issue of the Quarterly Essay. If you're interested in more episodes like this one, have a listen to Richard's recent conversation with Marcel Dirsus about tyrants and dictators on the ABC Listen App, or wherever you get your podcasts. Find out more about the Conversations Live National Tour on the ABC website. Conversations' Executive Producer is Nicola Harrison. This episode was produced by Jennifer Leake and presented by Richard Fidler. This episode of Conversations explores nuclear war, Russian expansionism, Ukraine, Putin, Donald Trump, Elon Musk, Los Angeles protests, riots, political landscape, Lauren Tomasi, ANZUS, Asia-Pacific, Xi Jinping, Taiwan, invasion, California, the decline of the West, National Guard, law enforcement, ICE.