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And The Next Thing You Know

Suzie Sherman

18 episodes

6 days ago

And The Next Thing You Know is a podcast about how our lives go exactly not as we planned them. No matter how hard we cling to our plans for college and career and relationships and creative goals, it's actually the disruptions in our lives, the wrenches and the tangents, that throw us in a different direction and force us to inhabit these beautiful, messy, trauma filled, disappointing, gorgeous, sexy lives, despite ourselves. Find us, and host Suzie Sherman, at nextthingpodcast.com; nextthingpod on fb, gmail, & patreon; soozenextthing on insta & twitter.

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö. Theme and interstitial music is by Jon Schwartz.

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Personal Journals

Society & Culture

All content for And The Next Thing You Know is the property of Suzie Sherman and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.

And The Next Thing You Know is a podcast about how our lives go exactly not as we planned them. No matter how hard we cling to our plans for college and career and relationships and creative goals, it's actually the disruptions in our lives, the wrenches and the tangents, that throw us in a different direction and force us to inhabit these beautiful, messy, trauma filled, disappointing, gorgeous, sexy lives, despite ourselves. Find us, and host Suzie Sherman, at nextthingpodcast.com; nextthingpod on fb, gmail, & patreon; soozenextthing on insta & twitter.

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö. Theme and interstitial music is by Jon Schwartz.

Show more...

Personal Journals

Society & Culture

Episodes (18/18)

And The Next Thing You Know

Susie Bright: Grapefruit Is The Umami of Citrus

And The Next Thing You Know PodcastEpisode 017: Susie Bright

Susie Bright, all pink like ruby grapefruit!

Susie Bright, prolific author, editor, and sex-positive feminist pioneer, is on And The Next Thing You Know podcast!Susie and I got together to talk about our evolving relationships with alcohol. For a lot of us, the social isolation of the pandemic shifted our drinking habits. This was true for me, as well as for Susie and her partner Jon.My conversation with Susie about booze comes from a harm reduction perspective. Let’s be honest about how people choose to live and celebrate joy, and minimize the harm. In the era of early HIV/AIDS, Susie contributed to a more transparent cultural dialogue celebrating sex and sexuality, and helped us take the shame out of it. That’s how it’s done.Susie Bright’s list of credits and accomplishments is vast! She was the editor of On Our Backs magazine from 1984 to 1991, author of Susie Sexpert’s Lesbian Sex World, author and editor of scores of other books and erotica collections, and one of Hollywood’s first intimacy coordinators—before it was even a thing—on the set of Lana and Lily Wachowski’s film Bound. She continues to share her prolific work with the world as a film and culture critic, expert teacher of writing and publishing, and audio producer who brought Allison Bechtel’s groundbreaking Dykes To Watch Out For comics to life for Audible last year.Find Susie Bright at her bloghttps://susiebright.ink

References the Suz(s)ies talked about in the episode

Me and a bespoke stack o’ books for Susie

Tristan Taormino’s Opening Up, Vito Russo’s The Celluloid Closet, Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCainSusie’s commentary on queer self-hatred in The Children’s Hour from the 1995 documentary The Celluloid Closet, based on Vito Russo’s book. (YouTube link)Radical Desire: Making On Our Backs Magazine at the Cornell University archiveSusie Bright’s books at Bookshop Santa...

1 year ago

1 hour 41 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

In Memory of Jenessa Schwartz – There’s Blood In My Stool (Rebroadcast)

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 016: In Memory of Jenessa Schwartz

The transcript for the new introduction is here.

My niece Jenessa Schwartz died on November 1, 2023, after living with a stage 4 colon cancer diagnosis since March, 2017. She was 41 years old.
This is a rebroadcast of our podcast conversation from 2019, with an updated introduction.
We talked in detail about the early days of her diagnosis, many of the various treatments she endured, and the effects of surgery and chemo on her spirits. We also talked about what it was like to discuss her cancer with her young kids, and how she embraced a new relationship amid this major transition in her life.

Early onset colon cancer is on the rise.

If you have any GI symptoms you’re suspicious about, at any age, talk to your doctor about getting a colonoscopy. And if you’re 45 or older, even with no symptoms, it’s time to schedule your first screening colonoscopy. If you detect colon cancer early, it’s very treatable. Get on that.

More about Jenessa

If you’d like to learn more about Jenessa Schwartz, please read her truly wonderful blogs:
My Colon Cancer: Semicolon, Not Full Stopabout her experience as a stage 4 cancer thriver
and Womb For Hire about becoming a gestational surrogate to two beautiful kids.
There is also a lovely obituary written by Leslie Katz for J. The Jewish News of Northern California.We love you, Ness.

Suzie Shermanis the host and producer of And The Next Thing You Know. She's a podcaster, writer, content marketer, and ever-aspiring creative noodler.

More episodes you might be curious about

1 year ago

1 hour 42 minutes 40 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Shawna Virago Metaphorically Punches Lou Reed in the Face

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 015: Shawna Virago

Photo by Lindsay Gauthier, courtesy of Shawna Virago

This is my conversation with Shawna Virago. Shawna is an indie punk/roots/folk musician and singer-songwriter, and the Artistic Director of the San Francisco Transgender Film Festival.
In this episode, we talk about coming up in the eclectic L.A. music scene in the 70s and 80s, seeing artists like Screamin’ Jay Hawkins, Bo Diddley, and gay punk rocker Tom Robinson live, and what it was like gigging at frat parties while trans.

Photo by Lydia Daniller, courtesy of Shawna Virago

We also talk about Shawna’s move to San Francisco, and Shawna’s surprising and nourishing meet-cute with longtime partner, the choreographer and Fresh Meat Productions Artistic Director, Sean Dorsey. Since the 1990s, Shawna and Sean have done some heavy lifting in the queer and trans communities in the San Francisco Bay Area and beyond to create vibrant trans visibility, community, and culture.Read a lovely piece about Shawna and Sean in the Advocate.Musical interludes in this episode are from Shawna Virago’s “Eternity Street,” used with permission. Find Shawna at shawnavirago.com and support Shawna on Bandcamp.

Shawna Virago Metaphorically Punches Lou Reed in the Face: The Spotify Playlist

I made a playlist to accompany this episode! It’s got original songs from Shawna, along with a bunch of the artists we talk about in the episode, including Bo Diddley, the Chiffons, X, Bowie, T. Rex, Amanda Lear, Jayne County, and many more! The Spotify Playlist Is Here

Queer history, activists, authors, and institutions referenced in the episode

2 years ago

1 hour 23 minutes 25 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

On Planets, Poetry, and Patent Law with Oliver Strimpel

And The Next Thing You Know podcast  Episode 014: Oliver Strimpel

Oliver Strimpel in the field. Photo courtesy of Oliver and Harriet Strimpel

In this episode of And The Next Thing You Know, I talk with the creator and host of the podcast Geology Bites, Oliver Strimpel.
If you’re curious about what drives plate tectonics, or about the composition of rocks and the amazing amount of information they contain about Earth’s prehistoric climates, if you’ve ever wondered what shapes a mountain ridge, or a canyon, Geology Bites is a podcast for the geoscience informed and the just curious alike!In the episode, we talk about the path Oliver has taken from his childhood in India, marveling in the Himalayas, to his PhD work in astrophysics studying galaxy clusters.

Oliver then worked at the Science Museum in London, and parlayed that work to his move to the United States in the 1980s to direct the Computer Museum in Boston. Oliver’s career path then took a sharp turn to patent law, and we talk about how the language of patents is kind of like poetry, and helps with podcast editing, as it turns out. Through it all, Oliver is driven by genuine curiosity and joy in learning about how the cosmos works, and the ingenuity humans use to understand it.
Find Oliver’s podcast Geology Bites at geologybites.com or in your podcast app.

Continuity and correction

A note on the timing of this episode and some corrections: At the beginning of the episode, Oliver says he started his podcast “last July” and that really means July of 2020, because it was already July of 2021 when we sat down together to talk. Later on, Oliver mentions that he’s about to publish episode number 37, which was his conversation with guest, Steve D’Hondt, about 100-million-year-old bacterial colonies living in the abyssal clay at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

That episode of Geology Bites was also posted back in July of 2021. Geology Bites is soon to break 60 episodes. I am posting this episode of And The Next Thing You Know several months after Oliver and I sat down to talk, so the time registry between our conversation and this episode are out of sync. My apologies for the continuity confusion.One more correction, also at the beginning of the episode, Oliver guesses that Nanga Parbat is about the “fifth or sixth” highest peak in the world; it is in fact, the ninth highest peak.

3 years ago

1 hour 9 minutes 43 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Speaking Up and Fucking Up with Kati Douglas

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 013: Kati Douglas

Kati Douglas

Early childhood educator and photographer Kati Douglas and I talk about her career in the education field and what her first few years in leadership were like. We talk about what it’s like to deal with white supremacy as a biracial Black mom of Black kids with a Black partner. We also talk about how her struggle with postpartum depression catalyzed a radical career path change, and how she puts equity and justice at the center of all her work.

You can find Kati’s absolutely gorgeous photography atxilophotography.com and @xilophotography on instagram.

Themes we discuss in the episode

Early childhood education, leadership in education, San Francisco, Oakland, post-partum depression, self-care, mental health, parenting, photography, career path, career transitions, relationships, Black Lives Matter, institutional oppression in education, Black experience in parenting, making art, grief.

References we talked about in the episode

The wonderful Buen Dia Family School, serving preschoolers in the Mission in San Francisco. Kati’s principal at Flynn Elementary in San Francisco was Dr. Karling Aguilera-Fort, now a superintendent of schools in Southern California.We talk in the episode about the acquittal of Treyvon Martin’s murderer, and about the murder of George Floyd, and the Black Lives Matter movement. Learn BLM herstory here.

Patron Shout!

Thank you to ALL my patrons for making this podcast happen, and for making it better! And a special shout out, as always, to my Failure and Redemption level patrons: Noah, Melissa, Marck, Lisa, Kurt, Kristina, Jen, Jeannie, Heather, Elyse, Liz, Eidell, Bonnie, Barry, and Amy, and to my Serendipity level patrons: Steve and Cyndi, Micharelle, Laurie, Kristi, Dorian, Brittany and Jodi.You, too, can become a patron of the show at patreon.com/nextthingpod. Patrons now get billed only when I release an episode, so you won’t even get billed monthly! Set it and forget it, and I’ll give you a heads-up before you get charged. This is a one-person operation,

3 years ago

1 hour 31 minutes 31 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Dana Morrigan Sings in Her Own Voice

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 012: Dana Morrigan, epic karaoke host

Photo of Dana Morrigan by Tristan Crane, from their series Here Portraits.

Today, I talk with Dana Morrigan, wonderful human, wry wit, queer nonbinary transfeminine spoken word artist, writer, performer, and epic karaoke host! It’s about her quest for self-knowledge across many parts of her life: in her cultural affiliations, in her work, in her relationships, in her gender and sexuality, in finding her creative callings. And the through-line is really that the process of finding ourselves is lifelong, and, if you’re doing it right, you can help other people find themselves, too.

How an epic karaoke host finds herself and builds safe spaces in the process.

We talked about: growing up in the Catskills of the ‘60s and ‘70s; identifying with cultural outlaws like Tiny Tim and Harpo Marx, and identifying with genderfluid and sexually free hippie culture; we talked comedy and improv; performance; writing, both creatively and professionally; copywriting; the demands of academia; heteronormative relationship expectations; gender and sexual discovery; finding the language to better understand oneself; the lifelong project of integrating one’s sense of self and belonging; finding and creating community; queer and trans performance; queer open mic; karaoke…and so many other things!

Find Dana Morrigan!

Keep up with Dana’s karaoke, spoken word, and other creative projects on her social channels! Karaoke With Dana on Facebook@KaraokeWithDana on Instagram and @KaraokeWithDana on Twitter

Dana's performance history

One of the main open mic events Dana performed at was The SF Queer Open Mic. They no longer hold events, but you can still find the community and archive online.Dana also participated in the Fresh Meat Festival of Trans and Queer Performance.

4 years ago

1 hour 26 minutes 58 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

I Was a Conservative Christian. Now, I’m a Polytheist Clown Nun.

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 011: Kurt Granzow/Sister Krissy Fiction

Kurt Granzow

Coming out as a conservative Christian, and gay, at the same time

Kurt Granzow came into himself as a gay man at the same time that he found support as a conservative Christian in a Lutheran community in the San Francisco Bay Area in the early ’90s. What came next was a decade of communion and pursuit of ministry within the church, all the while denying his own need to express his true sexuality and capacities for an authentic kind of personal, queer love in his life. This included a heterosexual marriage and divorce, an inner reconciliation of the pain in himself and the pain he caused others, and a project moving forward of personal accountability and operating, literally, in good faith.He’s spent the last two decades finding queer and spiritual community outside the church, and is now also known as Sister Krissy Fiction of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, an international order of queer nuns “promelgating universal joy and expiating stigmatic guilt!”

Kurt as Sister Krissy Fiction

Themes we talked about in the podcast

Coming out as gay in the early ’90s; coming out as a conservative Christian; conservative Lutheranism and conservative Christian theology; the so-called “ex-gay” movement; LGBTQ parents; pressure in the church toward heterosexual marriage; missionary travel; being closeted; September 11; Portland, Oregon; exploring liberal Christianity, paganism, and neo-paganism; the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence; gay and trans Pride; examining and leveraging white cis privilege to work against oppression of people of color and trans folks.

Cultural references in the episode

Why Morrissey is a dick A good summary from Forbes about how J.K. Rowling confirmed her commitment to trans exclusion Crystal Frasier on Twitter The downfall of Exodus International, and the “ex-gay” movement The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence A history of the Radical Faerie...

4 years ago

1 hour 41 minutes 18 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Misfortunes Quote-Unquote

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 010: Shawn Drinks from a Lucky Fountain

When I pitched my guest, Shawn, about coming onto the show, my original idea was just talking to her about her career change from being a lawyer to becoming a psychotherapist. She counter-pitched me a story that I couldn’t resist. She said, and I’m paraphrasing, “Let me tell you about that time I drank from a lucky fountain.” And from here our story departs.

This conversation is about several consequential events in Shawn’s life. The subjects are emotionally heavy, but there is so much joy and levity and emotional wisdom that Shawn brings to her story. This conversation just glows.

Themes we talked about in the episode

Psychology, therapy, mental health, spirituality, travel, family, queer families, marriage, relationships, breakups, parenting, pregnancy, abortion, grief, adoption, adoptee experience, career path, queer, lgbt, lgbtqqia, Bay Area, Hawaii, Spain.

References in the episode

The fountain at Covadonga Shawn’s Your Fellow Traveler pagePsychology and spiritual frameworks referenced in the episode: Attachment theoryCognitive behavioral therapyPsychodynamic approach Wilhelm Reich/Reichian psychotherapyCore shamanismDiamond ApproachJudith Blackstone

Patron Shout!

Thanks so much to all my patrons for the support you give me at any level. You’re doing it! You help make this show happen, and I appreciate you so much! And, as always, a particular shout out goes out to my Failure & Redemption level patrons: Bonita, Barry, Liz, Jen, Melissa, Noah, Elyse, Amy, Jeannie, and Heather, and my Serendipity level patrons: Dorian, Emily and Brittany.

We are And The Next Thing You Know

Our official HQ is atnextthingpodcast dot comwhere you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.Support the show by becoming a patron!patreon dot com/nextthingpodJoin the d...

4 years ago

1 hour 37 minutes 20 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

A Cruisible of Sorts with Amelia Ray

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 009: Musician Amelia Ray

*On “cruisible,” I was oblivious to this pun when I said it in the episode!Today’s episode marks the one-year anniversary of the podcast! I posted the very first episode in September, 2019, way back in the Before Times. I feel really proud of And The Next Thing You Know, and I’m so, so grateful for everyone who’s listening, and for all your support and love and retweets and telling your friends about the show, and for supporting us at Patreon, and for just being here with me in these extraordinary times. If you’re new to the podcast, welcome! If you’re an old friend of the show, thanks for sticking with us.

Amelia Ray in her studio

Today, I talk to musician Amelia Ray. Amelia is currently based in Helsinki, and before that, San Francisco, and before that, Reykjavík, and before that, many many other ports of call. We talk about the circumstances that led her to become an avid traveler and eventually a performer aboard tropical cruise ships.

The Many Projects of Amelia Ray

You never know when a 3-hour tour could become a way of life…hashtag Gilligan’s Island, hashtag popculture references for old people. You’ll hear a few more of those in this episode. You’ll also get to hear Amelia sing her song “Constant Traveller,” recorded live during our conversation.Amelia is the creator of the Quarantuned Music Festival, the variety show Up, Up, and A Ray, and the MashUpheaval podcast, an all-request show wherein she dunks your chocolate in her peanut butter to create a tasty new blend of musical delights. Find Amelia atAmeliaRayDotNetCatch the Up, Up, and A Ray show atupupandaray.comSubscribe to the MashUpheaval podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.Support Amelia on Patreon atpatreon.com/ameliarayAmelia’s got new singles in the hopper, so do drop by amelia ray dot net for updates!

Themes we talked about in the episode

Amelia and I talked about how we’re holding up during the COVID crisis, feelings about the Black Lives Matter uprising in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, travel to other countries, being a working musician, the process of creating music projects and uplifting others’ work, playing music on cruise ships, yacht rock, mental health, family and relationships.

5 years ago

1 hour 29 minutes 28 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

The Real Drug Was Checking Out.

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 08: The Real Drug Was Checking Out.

In this episode, I talk to my guest, Cisco, about how being sober isn’t just about not drinking booze. Cisco’s exploration of sobriety is no less than a spiritual quest, and it’s a daily examination of how he can be of better service not just to himself, but to the people in his life. We get into the weeds (ahem!) of his story by way of work pressures, sex clubs, racism, trauma, queer bar culture, and yeah, I figure out a way to squeeze in a reference to late stage capitalism in this episode too, if you’re keeping track. Cisco is a designer, a writer, a musician, and a human. A correction: the “parable” I refer to about walking down a road and falling into a hole turns out to be a 1994 poem by Portia Nelson, titled “Autobiography in Five Short Chapters.” My apologies for not crediting her in the episode. You can find the poem by googling it, and here’s a cute, short video illustrating it.Major themes: self-care, psychology, spirituality, sobriety, harm reduction, sexuality, othering and being othered, LGBTQQI culture, alcohol and drug use.

Content warning for this episode - we talk about family sexual abuse. We also talk about youth sexuality, public sex, drugs, alcohol, and recovery.

Patron Shout!

Thank you to all our Patrons for making this show better! Special thanks, in particular, to our Serendipity level Patrons, Emily, Brittany, and Dorian. <3 If you wanna join the NextThingNerd Squad, please head over topatreon.com/nextthingpod, choose the level of support that works for you, and be part of creating this totally independent podcast. It’s a labor of love, but, still, a labor, so help a podcaster out, yeah? Thank you so much.

We Are And The Next Thing You Know

We are And The Next Thing You Know. Subscribe in your podcast app, and tell your friends about the show on your social media with the hashtag #nextthingpod.
Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.
Full episode transcripts are here
Support the show by becoming a patron!patreon dot com/nextthingpod
Join the discussion atfacebook dot com/nextthingpod instagram dot com/soozenextthing Show more...

5 years ago

1 hour 50 minutes 37 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Julia Serano Likes Scare Quotes

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 007: Julia Serano

Photo courtesy of Julia Serano

Julia Serano is the author of the nonfiction books Whipping Girl, Excluded and Outspoken. She also just published a work of fiction called 99 Erics: a Kat Cataclysm faux novel. But wait, there’s more! She’s a biologist. She’s an activist. She’s a musician. And as you will be reminded in this conversation, Julia Serano is a “Notable Feminist Theorist.” And I’m putting that in, as she might say, “scare quotes.”

What Julia and I talked about in the episode

Julia Serano sat down with me to talk about how her life changed in three surprising ways in the wake of her gender transition, but not because she transitioned. She became a writer, a feminist theorist, and she became more confrontational, sometimes even “bombastic,” rather than a person who just wanted to smooth things over. We also talk about the band Rush. Kind of a lot.

Where to find Julia Serano

Find Julia at her website juliaserano.com. Her professional articles about critically important trans issues, feminism, and politics are at medium.com/@juliaserano.You can support Julia’s prolific non-fiction and fiction writing over at her patreon page, patreon.com/juliaserano, and, as if she could be more creative, she also performs rawkin’ and often hilarious powerpop as softvowelsounds.

Patron shout!

Thank you to all our amazing patrons for making this show better. A particular hat tip goes out to Serendipity level contributors Brittany, Emily, and Dorian. Thanks, y’all. If you give at any level, there’s extra good stuff over at our Patreon page. Check it out at patreon.com/nextthingpod.I’m still looking for your stories about how COVID-19 is changing your life. How are you feeling? How are you coping? Have you or someone you love been directly affected? If you want to share your thoughts, record a short voice memo on your phone, and email it to nextthingpod at gmail dot com.

We are And The Next Thing You Know.

5 years ago

1 hour 32 minutes 54 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Panic in a Grocery Store Parking Lot

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 006: Panic in a Grocery Store Parking Lot

An empty toilet paper aisle in the early days of the pandemic, Oakland, California, 2020

In this episode:

* Me, panicking in a grocery store parking lot. About the COVID-19 pandemic, naturally.
* Intro, and me reading reflections from other folks.
* Voice recordings from more people coping with COVID.
* Outro, links, and resources.

How are you coping with COVID?

I can’t imagine business as usual right now at a podcast about how our lives can change on a dime.
So I reached out to our community, and I want to share some stories about how folks are coping with COVID. I think we can all relate to these reflections, find some comfort and solidarity, and just be in this thing together.
This episode is dedicated to the way the COVID-19 pandemic is changing our lives. I will continue to share your stories over the next however many episodes I can, so keep recording your voice memos with some thoughts about how you’re doing out there.

Email your COVID realities to me at nextthingpod at gmail dot com.

Some reflections on how COVID-19 is changing our lives

I read written reflections at the top of the show from: Rian, jobless in Seattle; Sam on kid’s sacrifices in Jersey; Molly in Berkeley on kids’ disappointment and the uncertain prospect of nursing through the pandemic; Rachel in Modesto on fascism in the time of plague; Kate on managing risk factors and working with children in Boston; Jenn on a busted knee in Oakland; and Lyn on trauma response and cherishing time with her kid in Berkeley. We also hear direct voice messages from:Juniper, a doctor in Portland; Daria, reflecting on forced introspection in Providence; Gordon, an essential grocery worker in San Francisco; Amanda, living in exile in her own home in Graton; Linda, on family and grocery store battles in Campbell, and Samaki on needing a certificate to walk the dog in Schiltigheim, France.

Gordon adapted his piece from his blog series “Diary of an ‘Essential Worker.’” You can find it at gordonzola.net. He is also the author of two really great books, Cheesemonger: A Life on the Wedge, and Cheddar: A Journey to the Heart of America’s Most Iconic Cheese.Thank you to everyone who sent in reflections, and everyone out there listening. There’s a lot more ground to cover on how COVID-19 is affecting us. If you want to share some of your experiences and feelings, open up your voice memo app in your phone, record a short message, and email it to nextthingpod at gmail dot com. Wash your hands and stay the fuck home, if you can.

5 years ago

35 minutes 16 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Nancy Au Can’t Sew a Straight Line, or It’s Weird When Death Feels Familiar.

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 005: Nancy Au

Nancy and Suzie both have tattoos honoring their parents.

Nancy Au is an author and a writing teacher based in the Bay Area. Her full-length book of fiction Spider Love Song and Other Stories was published in September of 2019, and it’s longlisted for the 2020 PEN America Literary Awards/Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Short Story Collection.
Nancy and I got together to talk about our shared experience living with dead parents. One of Nancy’s most formative And The Next Thing You Know stories is that her father and mother died within 5 years of each other, marking the beginning and the end of her college years.Nancy Au’s book is Spider Love Song And Other Stories, available at Acre Books. Nancy’s website is peascarrots.com.

Nancy Au is the sweetest podcast guest, y'all!

Nancy is so engaging and delightful to talk to, and this was such a sweet, tender conversation we had.

We also hear Nancy read from her story “How To Become Your Own Odyssey, or The Land of Indigestion,” and we talk about how our intimate losses contribute to the art we make.

Major themes in our conversation

Being friends with your grandparents; the death of parents; experiencing death at a young age; grief; feeling preternaturally old; fantasies about what relationships might have been like; career paths and family obligation; our mother’s new relationships after our fathers died; sharing memories with loved ones and family friends; how grief shapes you; Mahjong; Chinese American experience in San Francisco and the Central Valley of California; Nancy’s work as a writer; fiction; making art.

References in the episode

We just briefly mention that Nancy’s grandmother survived both the Japanese occupation of China (1937-1945) and Mao’s Cultural Revolution. She was a teenager during the occupation, and fled China in the 1950s when she was in her 30s.M.A.S.H., Dynasty, Bob’s Burgers, and Murder She Wrote were all referenced.

Nancy mentioned Leslie Jamison’s The Empathy Exams, with respects to trauma, and holding our stories in vs.

5 years ago

1 hour 44 minutes 37 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Jenessa Schwartz – There’s Blood In My Stool.

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 004: Jenessa Schwartz - There's Blood In My Stool

This is my conversation with Jenessa Schwartz. She’s 37 years old, and she’s living with stage 4 colon cancer. She’s also my niece, my sister Cyndi’s daughter. Jenessa has two kids under 10. She was the Womb For Hire (her words) for two adorable surrogate kids, which is one of the menschiest things a person can do in this life. She’s a middle school language arts teacher, a musical theater aficionado, a giant nerd, and beloved to her huge, dear circle of friends and family. And she’ll be on chemo or some form of treatment for her cancer for the rest of her life.

More about Jenessa Schwartz

Jenessa’s blogs:My Colon Cancer: Semicolon, Not Full-Stop

Womb for Hire – Thoughts on becoming a surrogate mother

Jenessa also got press on her surrogacy at J, the Jewish News Weekly.

Living with stage 4 colon cancer, and, you know, life

In this episode, we covered a lotta ground. We talked about living with stage 4 colon cancer; colorectal cancer and metastatic cancer; HIPEC surgery; surrogacy; parenting and talking to children about cancer; Jewish culture, teaching, and family life; life with a terminal illness; crisis points and how we make choices to change our lives because of them; relationship changes in the context of a crisis; the epidemic of young people with late-stage colorectal cancer; favorite podcasts; and, most importantly, why you should get a colonoscopy right now. Seriously. If you’re 45 or older, even without symptoms, it’s time.

References we cited in the episode

The Major-General’s Song from The Pirates of Penzance (Gilbert and Sullivan, 1879)The Jewish festival of Purim

Bill’s Café in San Jose’s Rose Garden What’s a peritoneum?

HIPEC surgery procedure

5 years ago

1 hour 43 minutes 16 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Making Death Plans, Petting Bunnies

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 003: Making Death Plans, Petting Bunnies with Nannette Mickle

Nannette Mickle’s work life is a surprising and diverse series of next-things. She’s been a candy and cigarette girl, she’s worked in social services providing housing opportunities for unhoused folks. Back in the 90s, she once understudied as Bobby Brady in a notorious live show directed by Joey Soloway. And these days, she sits bedside with dying people, and helps her clients create self-actualized death plans. I wanted to talk with Nannette, because she embraces new work opportunities in her life with so much curiosity and joy, and makes plans to move on if the work fails to compel her. As a bit of a malcontent in my own work life, this conversation was a real salve.Nannette Mickle is a joyful death doula who embraces mortality as a way to fully experience life. An enthusiastic ballet aficionado and irreverent forever-goth, Nannette dreams of ways to help others navigate towards a more self-guided and actualized end-of-life. Traveling, petting small animals, and sitting bedside with hospice patients are just a few “musts” in her life.Major themes: Becoming a death doula; David Bowie’s death; meditation; our cultural denial of and glorification of death; non-linear career paths; the Real Live Brady Bunch, “exercising yes,” or “practicing yes;” when you end up dating your housemate; making lifelong friends and community from your connection to certain workplaces; creating friend community, particularly as queer folks; finding satisfaction in work and being “entertained” by it; trading off more money for work experiences that you enjoy; pink collar jobs; creating balance between work and other aspects of our lives; creating a death plan, end of life celebrations, and legacy projects to cultivate a more meaningful death experience. References: David Bowie Zen Hospice Project (now called Zen Caregiving Project)Tibetan death and dying practice:https://fpmt.org/mandala/archives/older/mandala-issues-for-1997/september/how-to-benefit-the-dying-and-the-dead/On being driven by our anxiety about death, see Ernest Becker’s The Denial of Death:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death (groundbreaking, but certainly dated) and Terror Management Theory:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theoryThe Peachy Puffshttps://www.peachyspuffs.com/The Real Live Brady Bunchhttps://chicagoist.com/2013/07/07/chicagoist_weekend_theater_jane_lyn.phpJoey Soloway – the creator of the Real Live Brady Bunch, and more well known as the creator of Transparent and as a writer/producer on lots of critically acclaimed TV shows. Note: Joey is nonbinary and uses “they” pronouns now, and Nannette and I were not aware of this when we recorded the show. Joey was also still going by their former name when we recorded, so we use that name in the episode. We offer our apologies to Joey for using the wrong pronoun in this episode.J...

5 years ago

1 hour 30 minutes 36 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

All At Once, All At Once

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 002: All At Once, All At Once

Today I’m talking with my guest, Keith, about a time in his life not so long ago, when shit went totally off the rails. He had a psychotic break and a set of experiences that blew up his marriage, his relationship with his kid, his job. Basically, nothing’s the same for him since that experience.Major Themes: Mental health, behavioral challenges, bi-polar disorder, psychosis, family, breakups, custody and relationship with kids, drug and alcohol use and treatment, harm reduction approaches vs. abstinence-based treatment, a dive into why I started this podcast, finding strength in friends and rebuilding after a crisis, forgiving ourselves for mistakes and harm we’ve caused.Mental Health and Drug/Alcohol Resources:The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline:https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/If you are looking for a licensed therapist or a registered therapy intern, the Psychology Today therapist listings in your area are usually a pretty helpful place to start:https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists A national listing of community mental health clinics:https://www.thenationalcouncil.org/topics/certified-community-behavioral-health-clinics/SMART Recovery program (SMART stands for Self-Management and Recovery Training.)https://www.smartrecovery.org/about-us/ Center for Harm Reduction Therapy (Bay Area only)https://harmreductiontherapy.org/ Moderation Managementhttps://www.moderation.org/ AA – Alcoholics Anonymoushttps://www.aa.org/ NA – Narcotics Anonymoushttps://www.na.org/ References:The social research I was referring to about how the beginnings and ends of experiences register more intensely than the middles of experiences is discussed this episode of the Hidden Brain podcast from WNYC:https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=592986190Bi-polar disorder overview from NAMI – the National Alliance on Mental Illness:https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Bipolar-Disorder/OverviewWhat is psychosis, also from NAMI:https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Early-Psychosis-and-Psychosis/OverviewSeroquel – the anti-psychotic medication we referred to that might have helped Keith sleep:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuetiapineAA meeting in Antarctica? Yes! Sometimes twice a week during the summer season, as told to me word of mouth by a friend of mine who works there seasonally. If you’re ever on The Ice and looking for an AA meeting, stop by Chapel of the Snows!https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/chapel-of-the-snowsThe Hawthorne EffectShow more...

6 years ago

1 hour 17 minutes 21 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

Paragons of Nothing!

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 001: Paragons of Nothing!

Welcome to the 1st episode of And The Next Thing You Know!

I’m really excited to share these stories with you about how our missteps and disappointments and serendipity lead us smack-dab into our life plans. Today, I’m talking with my guest Becca about creative actualization: how our drives for self expression and creativity get derailed whether by internal narratives or structural oppression, or the demands of making our work “marketable.” It’s a conversation about how we keep on creating, even if that looks like playing the piano for no one but ourselves.

Creative actualization: suck at something before you get good

Becca and I talked about a lotta stuff in this episode, as we feel our way into the major themes we’ll be exploring on And The Next Thing You Know. Among the subjects we touched on: Punching up, not down. Forming a sense of self and creative endeavor with little family support. The demands of being “profitable,” who can afford to do art, and the integration of art into our regular lives. Imposter syndrome and working through our blocks. Decolonizing your time! Piano – just playing vs. performing in front of people. Sucking at something before you get good. This is so important! Embracing our imperfections. Karaoke culture – giving ourselves permission to love singing and, also, to be bad at it! Grappling with our sense of inherent “badness” and the systems that hold us back. The Jewish teaching of tikkun olam: the repair of the world and of ourselves. The consumption of art vs. the creation of art, and the treachery of false dichotomies.

Cultural references in the episode

We’re kind of smart, I guess. Except I didn’t know who Jeff Koons was when Becca mentioned his very commercial pop art (sorry/not sorry?) Here are some of the cultural and popcultural creators and creations we referenced in the episode:

* Decolonizing Time by Nichole Marie Shippen
* Bird By Bird by Anne Lamott
* The Artist’s Way by Julia Cameron – and apologies for being cynical about it. This only exposes my own envy about developing a discipline to write and create. (Obviously!)
* Crazy Ex Girlfriend
* Supernatural
* Marie Kondo
* Jeff Koons – lol, I thought he was a pop musician, but he’s actually a pop visual artist.
* Karaoke – this will prove to be a motif throughout the podcast, I’m sure.

Becca paraphrased a quotation, “Art is controversial, or else it’s propaganda.” We didn’t figure out who said it, but here are some related quotes that may have been the crux of her remembering:

W.E.B. Du Bois: “…I do not care a damn for any art that is not used for propaganda.” (Which is the opposite sense of propaganda that Becca i...

6 years ago

57 minutes 43 seconds

And The Next Thing You Know

And The Next Thing You Know…The Trailer

And The Next Thing You Know podcastEpisode 000: The Trailer

And The Next Thing You Know is a podcast about how our lives go exactly not as we planned them. No matter how hard we cling to our plans for college and career and relationships and creative goals, it’s actually the disruptions in our lives, the wrenches and the tangents, that throw us in a different direction and force us to inhabit these beautiful, messy, trauma filled, disappointing, gorgeous, sexy lives, despite ourselves. Welcome to our living room. Read more about the show here.

A mental health podcast and a lot more

Common topics we cover in the podcast are psychology and mental health, evolving career paths, relationship explosions, alcohol and drug use and harm reduction, death and grief and the absurdity of it all, how to make art and create meaning in this one short life we’ve got. The podcast is a series of lovingly rendered conversations about all this serendipity and trauma.

Become a patron of the show!

We’d love it if you consider supporting the show at patreon dot com/nextthingpod! You get to make this podcast tick, and you’ll get some sporadic goodies, too. Become a patron of independent art…it’s good for ya!

We are And The Next Thing You Know

Our official HQ is atnextthingpodcast dot comJoin the discussion atfacebook dot com/nextthingpod instagram dot com/soozenextthing @soozenextthing.bsky.social
Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at nextthingpod at gmail dot comThe banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme & interstitial music is by Jon Schwartz.
Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

Some great episodes to start you out

6 years ago

3 minutes 10 seconds