In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Michael Cole, Senior Vice President of Marketing at Everflow and active member of the Performance Marketing Association’s Measurement Council. With a decade of experience leading growth and analytics in the partner and affiliate space, Michael helps brands unlock performance marketing efficiency through better data, smarter attribution, and stronger relationships between advertisers and publishers.
Their conversation dives deep into how affiliate marketing and partnerships are rapidly evolving in the age of AI and advanced measurement. Michael shares how Everflow empowers marketers to see the full picture of affiliate performance — from first click to repeat purchase — while debunking the biggest myths holding brands back. Together, they unpack how AI is reshaping discovery, what most marketers still misunderstand about attribution, and how partner programs can deliver growth that’s both scalable and sustainable.
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Bob Feist — known as the Godfather of Team Roping — a legendary cowboy, entrepreneur, and rodeo announcer. A Cowboy Hall of Fame inductee and PRCA Pioneer Award winner, Bob is also the founder of Ropers Sports News, the first-ever newspaper dedicated to team roping, and the creator of The Bob Feist Invitational (BFI), the richest one-day open team roping event in the world.
In this inspiring conversation, Bob and Tye explore the Cowboy Code — a timeless set of values centered on courage, integrity, and doing what’s right — and how these principles apply to today’s business and marketing world. Bob shares stories and lessons from decades of entrepreneurship, from building a publication out of nothing to growing one of the most prestigious events in rodeo history.
They dive into how the Cowboy Code influences leadership, business ethics, and branding, as well as the importance of trust, humility, and staying true to your brand identity. Bob also discusses key entrepreneurial lessons on starting small, adapting to change, and rewarding loyalty, offering timeless wisdom on integrity, perseverance, and leading with purpose.
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Bryn Jones, Co-founder and CEO of PartnerStack, a leading B2B SaaS partner marketing platform. Bryn has spent the past decade redefining how companies scale through partnerships, drawing from his experience growing PartnerStack from its early days at Y Combinator to becoming an industry leader. The conversation dives into the evolution of B2B partnerships and how PartnerStack is helping companies move beyond traditional sales and marketing models toward sustainable, efficient growth. Bryn shares lessons from the company’s journey—emphasizing the importance of customer feedback, culture, and adaptability—and highlights how partner teams can align closer with revenue goals. They also explore the growing role of AI and automation in partnerships, the creation of generational wealth within partner ecosystems, and why partnerships are beginning to look more like marketing in the years ahead. The episode wraps with Bryn’s reflections on leadership, humility, family, and even gardening—where he draws parallels between patience, growth, and building something that lasts.
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Nicole Leffer, an AI consultant, speaker, and founder of her own AI consultancy helping marketing teams and organizations understand, adopt, and integrate generative AI tools effectively. With a background as Head of Marketing for a B2B SaaS company, Nicole began experimenting with AI tools in 2021—long before the ChatGPT boom—and has since become a trusted voice in AI strategy, training, and implementation.
Nicole shares her journey from early AI adoption in marketing to launching her consultancy, offering practical insights for brands navigating this fast-evolving landscape. The conversation explores how AI can transform marketing workflows and team productivity, why organizations should start with one tool before expanding, and the risks of “cognitive offloading” or trusting AI too much. Nicole emphasizes the importance of maintaining human oversight, communication, and critical thinking, while debunking common misconceptions about AI’s limitations and potential.
They also discuss how to train teams to use AI responsibly and creatively, the role of experimentation and continuous learning in the AI era, and why smaller, agile teams often see greater success with implementation than larger, more rigid organizations. Beyond strategy, Nicole shares her creative side—her passion for travel, music, and using tools like Sunno to compose songs—illustrating how AI can enhance both professional workflows and personal expression.
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with John Toskey, a seasoned marketing leader with over 25 years of experience in global partner and performance marketing. Having held senior roles at eBay, Affirm, and Opera Software, and now running his own consulting practice, John unpacks lessons from decades of leading high-performing global marketing teams. He shares valuable insights on building diverse and sustainable teams, creating a culture of experimentation, and the importance of asking the right questions when testing. The conversation dives into why diversity in location, experience, and seniority strengthens team performance, how to avoid “talent logjams” and keep growth pathways open, and what it takes to scale a test-and-learn culture while ensuring results are properly shared. John and Tye also explore the balance between data, intuition, and executive alignment in decision-making, the evolving future of performance marketing—from BNPL to retail media to influencer backlash—and the promise and risks of AI in marketing, including generational differences in its adoption. Adding a personal touch, John opens up about his passion for cooking, vegan living, and even bird-watching apps, making this conversation both insightful and relatable.
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Kayla Castro, Senior Manager of Affiliates & Partnerships at Zenni Optical, to talk about the evolving world of affiliate marketing. Kayla shares her experience leading affiliate programs and offers practical insights on how to audit and optimize affiliate strategies for long-term success.
The conversation covers common mistakes brands make in affiliate marketing and why internal communication is critical for gaining leadership buy-in. Kayla also dives into the complexities of measurement, breaking down MTA, MMM, incrementality, and attribution models in a way that helps marketers understand how to use the right tool for the right decision.
They explore how to balance efficiency, partner diversity, and sustainable growth while leveraging AI as a supportive tool without losing the human touch that drives authentic, trust-based relationships with partners. Beyond marketing, Kayla shares personal perspectives on travel, books, and professional growth, making the discussion both practical and relatable.
In this special episode, Tye DeGrange, CEO of Round Barn Labs and host of Always Be Testing, reflects on his journey in marketing and the timeless principles he calls the Cowboy Code. Drawing from his upbringing on a California ranch and decades of experience leading growth at eBay, StubHub, and beyond, Tye explores what B2B marketers can learn from consumer brands.
He highlights why trust and authenticity are more critical than ever in today’s trust-deficit world, and how partner and affiliate marketing can help bridge the gap. From lessons in finishing what you start, keeping promises, and “talking less but saying more,” Tye makes the case that B2B has its moment now—to embrace authenticity, invest in brand, and build lasting trust with buyers.
In this episode of the Always Be Testing podcast, Peter Denton—a seasoned growth and marketing leader with a 25+ year career in startups, product experimentation, and marketing innovation—shares a wealth of insights from his journey through the dot-com boom to leading growth at XMTP and previously Pioneer Square Labs.
Peter discusses how to de-risk startups before launch, leverage APIs and data for faster insights, and adapt to changing marketing landscapes driven by AI, privacy, and emerging tech like blockchain and quantum security. From the rise of agents and protocols to the future of messaging platforms, Peter offers a masterclass on building, testing, and scaling products in today’s fast-moving world.
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Erica Yoon, Director of Marketing at BuildOps, a vertical SaaS platform designed for commercial contractors. With prior experience at companies like Reddit, Erica brings a rich perspective on scaling marketing strategies that go beyond demand generation.
We’re joined by Lucas Beland, Co-Founder & CEO of Goloot, an innovative content platform helping Consumer and B2B brands secure content placements on a performance basis. In this episode, we dive into the evolving world of content and influencer marketing, exploring why it’s time to move past vanity metrics and focus on real business outcomes like customer acquisition cost, ROAS, and lifetime value rather than likes or impressions. We also discuss why authenticity wins—how raw, relatable, and creator-led content resonates more deeply with audiences than overproduced ads, ultimately driving stronger engagement and higher sales.
In this episode of Always Be Testing, host Tye DeGrange sits down with Kevin Weatherman, co-founder of Upscale AI, a performance streaming platform using AI to power connected TV ads for DTC brands. With a rich background that includes being the first business hire at multiple startups, angel investing, and co-founding a global run club, Kevin shares his journey from selling limo rides to Google employees to scaling AI-driven advertising solutions. Their conversation covers Kevin’s approach to identifying market trends, the evolution of A/B testing, connected TV measurement strategies, AI in creative production, the intersection of brand and performance marketing, influencer and affiliate strategies, hiring in the AI era, and personal insights from his journey to sobriety.
Sydney Sloan – CMO of G2, a leading software marketplace for businesses to discover, review, and manage technology solutions. She has extensive experience in customer marketing, community building, and scaling B2B SaaS companies. Formerly at Adobe, SalesLoft, and other high-growth companies, she’s recognized as a champion of customer advocacy.
In this episode, Ben Edelman shares insights from his years studying the intersection of economics, digital marketing, and consumer protection. He and the host dive deep into the evolution of affiliate marketing, the early days of web advertising, and how regulation and business incentives have shaped online behavior—both good and bad. Ben also reflects on ad fraud, deceptive affiliate practices, legal enforcement challenges, and how platforms and advertisers can improve accountability in the digital space.
Bryant Garvin, a 20-year veteran of the digital marketing world, announced his new position as Operator in Residence at Triple Whale. This role leverages Triple Whale's massive data set (35,000+ stores, $55B+ GMP annually) to build better products for marketers and e-commerce operators. Garvin discussed his evolved perspective on attribution, emphasizing Triple Whale's holistic approach using AI and data integration beyond simple dashboards. He highlighted the power of MOBI, Triple Whale's platform, in providing data-driven insights for strategic planning, such as Prime Day optimization. The conversation also touched upon the importance of humanizing data, considering the broader context of marketing beyond immediate clicks, and the crucial role of product quality in marketing success. Garvin shared successful marketing strategies from his past, including adding value instead of discounting and leveraging Kickstarter for product launches. He championed YouTube as an underutilized e-commerce channel and cautioned against relying solely on quick wins, advocating for long-term brand building. Finally, he emphasized the importance of authenticity and human connection in marketing, even in the age of AI, and shared a personal anecdote about his childhood dream of becoming a paleontologist.
Sales expert Sam McKenna, Founder of Sam Sales, shares her journey from solo consultant to a thriving 20-person team with 250+ clients. The podcast discusses her unique sales strategies, including the "Expand the Sandbox" method for LinkedIn prospecting, which landed her a deal with Equifax. Key takeaways include the importance of building genuine rapport with clients (even discussing breakfast!), prioritizing consistent outreach, and investing in employee growth. McKenna emphasizes the critical need for sales leadership training and highlights the detrimental effects of slow responses in communication, advocating for a "give a shit" (GAS) approach that prioritizes human connection over automation. She also shares a surprising personal anecdote about her father's grave and recommends the book "Unreasonable Hospitality." The conversation underscores the transferable nature of sales skills across various business functions and the power of human interaction in building lasting relationships.
This Always Be Testing podcast features James Little, a UK affiliate marketing legend and key figure at TopCashback. The episode covers TopCashback's 20-year history, its unique 100% cashback model, and its global success without venture capital. Little discusses the challenges and rewards of operating in various markets, the importance of clear customer education around cashback, and the evolving relationship between cashback sites and brands. He highlights the crucial role of accurate tracking and the positive impact of AWIN's move towards server-to-server tracking. The conversation also touches upon the impact of AI on affiliate marketing, the importance of mental health awareness, and Little's personal experiences.
The Performance Marketing Association (PMA) released its third triennial affiliate marketing survey, revealing a booming industry. Data from eight networks, 53 publishers, and over 20,000 brands showed ad spend skyrocketing from $6 billion to $13.63 billion (a 14.42% CAGR), exceeding e-commerce growth and contributing 10% to overall US e-commerce revenue. While cashback and coupon sites remain significant, their market share decreased, likely due to the rise of card-linked offers and buy now, pay later options. These, along with influencer marketing, fueled growth, though the overall increase in market size means some sectors saw proportional decreases in share. The survey also highlighted growth in less directly correlated sectors like finance and telecom, and a slight decrease in ROAS (from 12:1 to 11:1), potentially due to a shift towards top-of-funnel traffic. Publisher sentiment shows concern about Google changes but optimism for the future.
This podcast features Ryan Fitzgerald, an affiliate industry expert at AWIN, discussing various aspects of affiliate marketing. Key takeaways include the importance of initially working with all publisher types to build brand equity, AWIN's global reach and commitment to a publisher-centric approach, and Fitzgerald's sales leadership focusing on educating and mentoring SMBs. He emphasizes the need for transparency and data-driven decision-making in affiliate marketing, particularly for convincing C-suite executives of its value. Fitzgerald also shares insights into his team's success strategy, focusing on deal closure, self-education, and organization, and offers advice for brands on time commitment and agency utilization. The conversation touches upon AWIN's ShareASale integration, bringing modernized technology to a large existing client base. Finally, Fitzgerald shares personal insights, including book and movie recommendations, and advice for fathers.
This podcast episode features Vinod Varma, founder and CEO of Creator Co., discussing the evolving landscape of social commerce. Varma defines social commerce as the next wave of influencer marketing, enabled by expired Amazon patents, and highlights TikTok Shop's leading role due to its seamless user experience. Creator Co. helps brands navigate this space by providing technical setup and access to a vast influencer network. The conversation touches upon the potential of other platforms like YouTube, YouTube Shorts, and the surprisingly underutilized Pinterest, emphasizing the platform's aspirational and positive nature. A key theme is the importance of authenticity in influencer marketing, particularly in the age of AI, and the need for improved attribution models and transparency in influencer compensation to address concerns arising from browser extensions like Honey.
Jordan Koene, CEO & Founder of Previsible.io, breaks down how AI is reshaping the SEO landscape. As tools like ChatGPT provide direct answers, many websites are seeing noticeable drops in organic traffic—ranging from 10% to as much as 90%, depending on the industry and keyword.
This shift is happening quickly and requires a thoughtful response. Jordan explains why it's important for brands to focus on becoming trustworthy sources within AI ecosystems, addressing inaccuracies in AI-generated content, and leaning into unique brand assets. He also emphasizes the need to shift from broad outreach to more targeted strategies on platforms where the audience is most active.
AI isn’t replacing jobs, but it’s changing them—making skill development and retraining a priority. The future of SEO will center around helpful, relevant content, deeper personalization, and multimedia formats like video that build trust and engage users.
The key is to move from reactive to prescriptive marketing by focusing on serving specific audience needs within the evolving limitations of AI.
