180. After Charlie Kirk: Embracing Moral Courage and Healthy Conflict with Jonathan Cogburn, LMFT

https://is1-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Podcasts221/v4/42/8c/e4/428ce401-fd42-084f-f45d-3a15dcb8e976/mza_17562582831179712414.jpg/600x600bb.jpg

You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist

Stephanie Winn

185 episodes

1 day ago

You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist intimately explores the human experience while critiquing the state of the counseling profession as it yields to cultural madness. Your host, Stephanie Winn, distills years of wisdom gained from her practice as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist as she pivots away from treating patients, and toward the question of how to apply psychology to the novel dilemmas of the 21st century. What does ethical mental health care look like in a normless age, as our moral compasses spin in search of true north? How can therapists treat patients under pressure to affirm everything from the notion of gender identity to assisted suicide? Stephanie invites heretical, free-thinking guests from many walks of life, including current and former therapists, medical professionals, writers, researchers, and people with unique lived experience, such as detransitioners. Curious about many things, Stephanie’s interdisciplinary psychological lens investigates challenging social issues and inspires transformation in the self, relationships, and society. Pick up a torch to illuminate the dark night and join us on this journey through the inner wilderness. *ISSUES LISTENING ON SPOTIFY* - If you notice some episodes missing from Spotify, you can find them on any other platform. New episodes are released every Monday, and all are present in numerical order, so you should always see an episode that has been released within the past week, followed by episodes in descending numerical order without any missing numbers. Spotify has a backwards and archaic system for flagging copyrighted content for removal. This podcast has a license to use its theme song, Half Awake by Joey Pecoraro, but Spotify's system keeps removing it anyway, and demands that podcast creators manually appeal the removal for every episode. This is obviously ridiculous. Spotify needs to get it together.

All content for You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist is the property of Stephanie Winn and is served directly from their servers with no modification, redirects, or rehosting. The podcast is not affiliated with or endorsed by Podjoint in any way.

180. After Charlie Kirk: Embracing Moral Courage and Healthy Conflict with Jonathan Cogburn, LMFT

You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist

1 hour 40 minutes

1 month ago

180. After Charlie Kirk: Embracing Moral Courage and Healthy Conflict with Jonathan Cogburn, LMFT

Just days after Charlie Kirk's assassination, I sit with Texas Marriage and Family Therapist Jonathan Cogburn for what becomes a profound exploration of faith, courage, and finding hope in dark times. Jonathan shares his journey from being apolitical to openly identifying as conservative, inspired by brave voices who showed him there's nothing shameful about his beliefs.

We dive into systems theory concepts like pursuer-distancer patterns that explain both family dynamics and our current cultural moment, discussing how healthy conflict is necessary to prevent accumulated resentment. Jonathan reveals his patient approach to online discourse, treating people as capable of the change he hopes to see, while I grapple with questions of when charity becomes naive.

Our conversation weaves through theological perspectives on human worth, the intersection of therapy and faith, and how Christianity offers a practical framework for living with our flawed nature. We tackle the thorny question of whether consequences for those glorifying violence constitute "cancel culture" or a necessary reset of social norms. This episode captures the wrestling many of us are doing right now - how to maintain hope, express truth, and build bridges while protecting ourselves and those we love.

Jonathan Cogburn is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in West Texas who currently works for an agency that provides a variety of support to school districts in his area In that role he delivers state-required mental health training to districts, supports rural school counselors and homeless student liaisons, and co-leads a team of licensed professionals and school counselors that respond to crises and disasters. Follow Jonathan @SystemicTexism on X or on Substack

[00:00:00] Start
[01:12:14] Introduction to Jonathan Cogburn
[03:25:16] Context setting: Recording in wake of Charlie Kirk assassination
[07:54:28] Jonathan's journey from apolitical to openly conservative therapist
[11:46:20] Meeting Soad and deciding to put "conservative" in bio
[15:02:58] Discussion of "It's okay to be white" shirt story from vigil
[18:33:05] Conflict as necessary and healthy when conducted properly
[23:18:16] Texas licensing board policies vs. other states
[27:53:13] Success stories of changing minds through patient dialogue
[32:34:38] Alter casting and projective identification concepts
[36:32:19] Pursuer-distancer patterns in parent-child relationships
[41:02:27] Setting boundaries with name-calling in online discourse
[47:18:53] Discussion of reporting tip lines and cancel culture reversal
[55:14:05] Cultural reset and consequences for glorifying violence
[01:03:28] Left's moral framework and externalized decision-making
[01:07:48] Theological perspective on human worth and creation
[01:15:10] God as emotionally differentiated being
[01:19:10] Parenting analogy and relinquishing control
[01:25:43] Substack mission and upcoming school activism article
[01:28:06] Christianity vs. other religious paths and perfectionism
[01:35:10] Evil, satanic cults, and need for moral frameworks
[01:38:52] Closing and contact information

ROGD REPAIR Course + Community gives concerned parents instant access to over 120 lessons providing the psychological insights and communication tools you need to get through to your kid. Now featuring 24/7 personalized AI support implementing the tools with RepairBot! Use code SOMETHERAPIST2025 to take 50% off your first month.

PODCOURSES: use code SOMETHERAPIST at LisaMustard.com/PodCourses

TALK TO ME: book a meeting.

PRODUCTION: Looking for your own podcast producer? Visit PodsByNick.com and mention my podcast for 20% off your initial services.

SUPPORT THE SHOW: subscribe, like, comment, & share or donate.

ORGANIFI: Take 20% off Organifi with code SOMETHERAPIST.

Watch NO WAY BACK: The Reality of Gender-Affirming Care. Use code SOMETHERAPIST to take 20% off your order.

SHOW NOTES & transcript with help from SwellAI.

MUSIC: Thanks to Joey Pecoraro for our song, “Half Awake,” used with gratitude & permission.

ALL OTHER LINKS HERE.

To support this show, please leave a rating & review on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe, like, comment & share via my YouTube channel. Or recommend this to a friend!

Learn more about Do No Harm.

Take $200 off your EightSleep Pod Pro Cover with code SOMETHERAPIST at EightSleep.com.

Take 20% off all superfood beverages with code SOMETHERAPIST at Organifi.

Check out my shop for book recommendations + wellness products.

Show notes & transcript provided with the help of SwellAI.

Special thanks to Joey Pecoraro for our theme song, “Half Awake,” used with gratitude and permission.

Watch NO WAY BACK: The Reality of Gender-Affirming Care (our medical ethics documentary, formerly known as Affirmation Generation). Stream the film or purchase a DVD. Use code SOMETHERAPIST to take 20% off your order. Follow us on X @2022affirmation or Instagram at @affirmationgeneration.

Have a question for me? Looking to go deeper and discuss these ideas with other listeners? Join my Locals community! Members get to ask questions I will respond to in exclusive, members-only livestreams, post questions for upcoming guests to answer, plus other perks TBD.

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★