Jack and Stan speak with Ethan Taylor, a Warumungu man and a political theory student at Oxford, asking big questions about First Nations justice and liberal reform. How can liberalism, in the wake of the Voice’s defeat, be made to work better for First Nations people and all Australians? Can liberalism, on its own, sustain us, or must our roots be elsewhere – in society, the sacred, or somewhere else altogether? Join us for this conversation across the generations.