Ruben Daniels (Founder of Allelo) and I had a wonderful conversation about systems transformation, digital sovereignty and what it takes to begin living into a stable state of interbeing. Ruben is a successful IT entrepreneur that has since shifted his focus towards sovereignty- food, economic and digital. We speak especially about the economic and digital aspects of this sovereignty. Ruben is also a co-creator of the Masterminding Eden that Camara Cassin recently spoke of on the podcast. Ruben is a fellow ecosystems weaver and systems thinker and this is a wonderful conversation! Enjoy!