Dr Greg Trainor and Neil Belford sit down with Charles Cattermole, Principal at Outpost Ventures, for a look into the human side of Australia's energy transition. From his accidental entry into energy through the Australian Navy to roles at Green Sync and Energy Australia, Charles shares hard-won insights about scaling innovation within large utilities and the critical importance of people over technology in driving change. The conversation explores the challenges of virtual power plants, the complexity of Australia's energy markets, and why trust remains the biggest barrier to customer adoption of interactive energy products. Charles reveals lessons from successfully scaling a pilot from 20,000 to 250,000 customers, discusses the misalignment between startup accelerators and utility needs, and shares his vision for securitising distributed energy resources like traditional power stations.