From leaked AI rulebooks to state bans on AI therapy, Annie and guest Charlie Costello dig into the messy, human side of setting limits for machines.

Annie sits down with her Upstart colleague Charlie Costello to talk about the real-world decisions shaping AI’s future. They break down Meta’s leaked chatbot guidelines—yes, the one with “romantic chats with minors” in the fine print—debate whether “deep ignorance” can make AI safer by erasing dangerous knowledge, and unpack Illinois’ surprising move to ban therapists from using AI (even while patients still can).

We also discuss:

• What Meta’s 200-page chatbot rulebook says—and what it leaves out
• Can “deep ignorance” keep AI safe without making it useless?
• Why Illinois banned AI in therapy, and what it could mean for mental health care