Feminist lawyer and legal reform advocate Pamela Cross joins me to talk about the reality of intimate partner violence in Canada and why, as the title of her new book states, “And Sometimes They Kill You.” Pamela shares the moment that launched her decades-long commitment to helping women escape violence, the flaws in our legal and family court systems, and why misogyny continues to fuel this crisis. We talk about the need for judicial education, how the criminal justice system often fails survivors, and what a truly society-wide response could look like. We also discuss how to engage men in these conversations, where women can focus their efforts for the most impact, and why Pamela still has hope—even after all she's seen. Learn more about Pamela’s work and find her book at pamelacross.ca. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices