Hard as it is to believe, We Will Get Through This is not the only awesome podcast around here. Really, it’s true. Once a season, I’ll be sharing an episode from another podcast I listen to and admire, and there’s no better place to start than with Dave Stachowiak’s Coaching for Leaders. I’ve been a guest four times, and that’s not a scheduling error on my part. It’s me delighting in being in conversation with a smart, prepared and engaged host. I asked Dave which episode he thought we should feature, and his first suggestion was this conversation with Shelley Winner. It’s an absolute beauty. Shelley was caught in a downward spiral, and had ended up in jail. Statistics would suggest she’d be kept down in a vicious circle: you go to jail, you can’t establish yourself once you’re out of jail, you find yourself using old behaviour to survive, you go back to jail ... and so it goes. In this conversation Dave explores with Shelley why prison was the easiest part of her journey; how she took her first step towards working with one of the world’s biggest tech companies; the battle that almost cost her everything; and exactly why organizations should consider hiring past offenders. You can see Shelley’s excellent TEDx talk at http://www.tedxfonddulac.com/speakers/shelley-winner/. You can subscribe to Dave’s podcast at https://coachingforleaders.com/. This show is brought to you by The Advice Trap, Michael Bungay Stanier’s latest book. You can access a wide range of tools to help #TameYourAdviceMonster at www.TheAdviceTrap.com. If you’d like to spend more time with Michael and people he admires, sign up for The Year of Living Brilliantly. 52 teachers over 52 weeks, each teaching one brilliant insight. Absolutely free