We need dialogue with others who think and feel differently from ourselves because we so easily deceive ourselves. Every project we develop, from science and technology, to art and culture, is a long conversation with others.  In these activities, our self-protection and self-promotion, as well as our desire to defeat others, clouds our self-awareness, but we can correct that problem through dialogue. When we avoid conflict and difficult conversations, we cheat ourselves of expanding our self-awareness or knowledge. Even well-meaning people may avoid conflict and gossip behind the back of a family member, co-worker, or leader and in this way dismissing another person or another position. Conflict avoidance is often a step towards dehumanization. In this fascinating conversation, Mike and Polly talk about how conflict avoidance diminishes waking up.