Is the time right for change and "to be bold and think big, and challenge the way we think about tertiary education" in Australia? In this episode, we explore potential reforms to universities, their missions, and structures, while considering the role of VET. One perspective suggests establishing two types of universities: one focused on practical, hands-on learning for professional skills, and the other dedicated to research and comprehensive education. Tom Karmel argues that higher education is more than just theoretical knowledge—it's inherently vocational, preparing students for their chosen professions. He sees a lot of what the VET sector is teaching is generic skills which can be transferred to a wider range of jobs. Tom proposes the idea of a "professional university" that offers qualifications from certificates to degrees, focusing on practical education and strong connections to the job market. Jenny Dodd agrees with many of Tom’s ideas for creating a more integrated tertiary education system but raises concerns about the term "professional university." Simon Walker supports the need for an integrated model that allows students to build on their learning across various qualifications. He sees potential benefits in such a system, particularly in promoting equity and supporting disadvantaged students.