Today on Upstream, we’re sharing Erik Torenberg conversation with Samo Burja on this week’s Live Players. They discuss the potential industrial revolutions in history, particularly in the Roman Empire and Song Dynasty China, their technological advancements, economic factors, and the reasons these revolutions didn't reach full fruition.   — 📰 Be notified early when Turpentine's drops new publication: https://www.turpentine.co/exclusiveaccess    — RECOMMENDED PODCASTS:  🎙️Live Players Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=01ed191c74264f55   Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja  — SPONSORS: ☁️ Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds and offers one consistent price. Oracle is offering to cut your cloud bill in half. See if your company qualifies at https://oracle.com/turpentine    💥 Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/  and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist. — LINKS: Las Medulas in Spain: https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/803/  Monte Testaccio in Rome: https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/ancient-history/monte-testaccio/?srsltid=AfmBOoonzF0CVGKjzUFs46kkI9fZ-FVcBTDOMAVs8vtFcxH4iKcNx09f Bismarck Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/ — X / TWITTER: @samoburja @eriktorenberg @turpentinemedia— HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE: The podcast explores "failed industrial revolutions" not widely recognized in history. Human economic progress isn't constant but cycles between prosperity and decline. The Roman Empire had its own industrial revolution unlike our modern conception. Water power was extensively used by Romans for milling, metalwork, and stone cutting. Romans built complex waterwheel systems and engineering works for power generation. Heron of Alexandria demonstrated steam power principles in experimental devices. Roman metal production was so vast it left pollution signatures in Greenland ice cores. Monte Testaccio in Rome indicates industrial-scale production of millions of amphoras. Romans mass-produced standardized pottery, glassware, statues, and military equipment. A sophisticated Roman consumer economy existed with a significant middle class. This era remains underappreciated partly due to concerns about interrupted progress. Hollywood misrepresents the era, omitting the "steampunk" mechanical sophistication. Cities like Alexandria were major production centers with extensive trade networks. Romans might have adopted steam power had they needed to mine more coal. Song Dynasty China represents another technologically advanced society that fell. Large-scale water shipping appears crucial for all historical industrialization. Industrial revolutions plateau when non-technological growth fails to keep pace. The Hellenistic era, especially Alexandria, is described as modern science's birthplace.