In this episode we talk about Brian’s evolution as a climber and then as a bikepacker. We also talk about the evolution of mountaineering in New Zealand, including the style of climbing in New Zealand in the late 80s and 90s and the positives of mentorship in the New Zealand Alpine Team. Our conversation turns to the rapidly developing bikepacking scene around the world and in NZ. We chat about pushing the limits in mountaineering compared to bikepacking races. Brian shares some experiences from the Tour Divide race in North America, the Great Southern Brevet in NZ and organising the inaugural Tour Te Waipounamu bikepacking race.