Unsettling Extremism is a podcast by He Whenua Taurikura, Aotearoa's Independent Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism. In this podcast we will be having critical conversations with experts who look at extremism, hate, mis and disinformation, conspiracy theories as well as our social connectedness all through a uniquely Aotearoa lens. Each episode I'll interview a different expert who will discuss their research contextualise the present moment explain the impact of extremism and disinformation, and let us know what we all can do about it.
Unsettling Extremism is a podcast by He Whenua Taurikura, Aotearoa's Independent Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism. In this podcast we will be having critical conversations with experts who look at extremism, hate, mis and disinformation, conspiracy theories as well as our social connectedness all through a uniquely Aotearoa lens. Each episode I'll interview a different expert who will discuss their research contextualise the present moment explain the impact of extremism and disinformation, and let us know what we all can do about it.
In today’s episode, we talk about how the study of communication can help us understand and resist social inequity. My guest is Prof. Mohan Dutta, Dean's Chair Professor of Communication at Massey University. He is the Director of the Center for the Culture-Centered Approach to Research and Evaluation (CARE). Prof. Dutta is the winner of the 2016 International Communication Association (ICA) Applied/Public Policy Communication Research Award, and the 2018 Outstanding Health Communication Scholar Award. He serves on the Advisory Panel of the World Health Organization (WHO) Cultural Contexts of Health (CCH) group.
Mohan discusses how we can the CCA as a lens to better understand the current political environment, communication inequality, as well as communicative sovereignty. His take on disinformation, as a critical scholar myself, is one of the most thought-provoking I’ve heard
Here are a few of Mohan’s articles that relate to our discussion:
Dutta, MJ. (2023). Applied communication, witnessing, and decolonizing futures. Journal of Applied Communication Research. 51(6), 579-581
Elers, C., & Dutta, M. (2023). Academic-community solidarities in land occupation as an Indigenous claim to health: culturally centered solidarity through voice infrastructures. Frontiers in Communication. 8
Dutta, MJ. (2022). Communication as raced practice. Journal of Applied Communication Research. 50(3), 227-228
Dutta, MJ. (2022). De-centering the whiteness of applied communication research: some editorial strategies. Journal of Applied Communication Research. 50(2), 109-110
Māori Scholars on the role of disinformation (or myth-making) in colonisation
Jackson, M. (2018). Colonization as myth-making: A case study in Aotearoa. In Being Indigenous (pp. 89-101). Routledge.
Jackson, M. (2020). Where to next? Decolonisation and stories in the land in Imagining Decolinsation Bridget Williams Books
Mikaere, A. (2013). Racism in contemporary Aotearoa: A Pākehā problem. Colonising Myths-Maori Realities: He Rukuruku Whakaaro, 92-126.
Miller, R. J., & Ruru, J. (2008). An indigenous lens into comparative law: the doctrine of discovery in the United States and New Zealand. W. Va. L. Rev., 111, 849.
Ngata, T. (2019). Kia Mau: resisting colonial fictions. Kia Mau Campaign.
Ritchie, J., Skerrett, M., & Rau, C. (2014). Kei tua i te awe māpara: Countercolonial unveiling of neoliberal discourses in Aotearoa New Zealand. International Review of Qualitative Research, 7(1), 111-129.
On this episode of Unsettling Extremism, we talk about the concept of conspiracy theories. People talk about conspiracy theories all the time, but have you ever slowed down to think about what conspiracy theories are? Are all conspiracy theories built equal? Is a belief in conspiracy theories inherently bad? I spoke with New Zealand-based philosopher, Dr M R Dentith, Associate Professor of philosophy at Beijing Normal University at Zuhai. M is a philosopher specialising in understanding the knowledge that underpins conspiracy theories, especially in a social context. In other words, they are an expert on the theory of conspiracy theory, or conspiracy theory theory. M has written and edited several books on conspiracy theories, the first of which is called the philosophy of conspiracy theories, published in 2014 see the show notes for more of their writing, but beyond their writing, M also has a podcast called The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy. So if you like these kinds of conversations, you want to listen to those too. Here's a little spoiler alert. If you've come to disparage conspiracy theories and the people who believe in them, you'll be disappointed in this episode. But if you've come to learn more about conspiracy theories and what they're about, this is the episode for you.
Resources:
Books
The Philosophy of Conspiracy Theories by M. Dentith (Palgrave Macmillan, 2014)
The Philosophy of Conspiracy Theories: Concepts, Methods and Theory (Routledge, 2024)
Articles
Dentith, M. R. (2016). The Problem of Fake News. Public Reason, 8(1-2), 65.
Dentith, M. R. (2016). When inferring to a conspiracy might be the best explanation. Social Epistemology, 30(5-6), 572-591.
Website
https://www.mrxdentith.com/
Podcast
https://zencastr.com/The-Podcaster-s-Guide-to-the-Conspiracy
This episode of Unsettling Extremism is a little bit different than what you're used to today, rather than talking to a scholar about their research we are taking on a particular topic, great replacement conspiracy theory. As the research center charged with countering and preventing violent extremism, I wanted to take a closer look at how this conspiracy theory relates specifically to an Aotearoa context to do this. I had conversations with some of Aotearoa, leading experts on the topic. First, I spoke to Dr Max Soar, Research Fellow at He Whenua Tarikura, who has seen the way the replacement conspiracy theory shows up in Aotearoa through his research on how white supremacist dynamics show up in politics and science. Then, I had a group conversation with the esteemed scholars, Emeritus Professor of Religious Studies, Paul Morris of Victoria University and distinguished Emeritus Professor of Sociology, Paul Spoonley from Massey University, who share with us their understandings of replacement conspiracy theory and its local manifestations.
References
The Venomous Rhetorical Web of Far-Right Terrorists by Julia Kupper https://gnet-research.org/2022/10/17/the-venomous-rhetorical-web-of-far-right-terrorists/
Fear: New Zealand's Hostile Underworld of Extremists by Byron Clark
https://www.harpercollins.co.nz/9781775542308/fear/
Histories of Hate: The Radical Right in Aotearoa New Zealand, Edited by
Matthew Cunningham, Marinus La Rooij and Paul Spoonley
Edelman Trust Barometer 2025 https://acumennz.com/acumen-edelman-trust-barometer/acumen-edelman-trust-barometer-2025/
The Great Replacement’: The Violent Consequences of Mainstreamed Extremism by Institute of Strategic Dialogue, https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/the-great-replacement-the-violent-consequences-of-mainstreamed-extremism/
The Jan. 6 Insurrectionists Aren’t Who You Think They Are by Robert Pape of Chicago Project on Security & Threats https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/06/trump-capitol-insurrection-january-6-insurrectionists-great-replacement-white-nationalism/
UK Islamophobic assaults surged by 73% in 2024, anti-hate crime charity reports by Aamna Mohdin and Chris Osuh in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/feb/19/uk-islamophobic-assaults-surged-by-73-in-2024-anti-hate-charity-reports
On this episode of Unsettling Extremism, we explore how literature can inform our understanding of white supremacy and extremism. I spoke with Dr. Tina Makereti, an award-winning writer who teaches creative writing at Victoria University of Wellington, Te Herenga Waka at the International Insitute of Modern Letters.
Learn more about Tina's book The Mires, here. https://ultimopress.com.au/products/the-mires
References:
Clark, B. (2023). Fear: The must-read gripping new book about New Zealand's hostile underworld of extremists. HarperCollins New Zealand.
Ebner, J. (2021). Going dark: The secret social lives of extremists. Bloomsbury Publishing.
Lavin, T. (2020). Culture warlords: My journey into the dark web of white supremacy. Legacy Lit.
Marsh, S. T. (2024, December 9). Arts don’t just decorate knowledge, they deepen it. Newsroom https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/12/09/arts-dont-just-decorate-knowledge-they-deepen-it/
Tecun, A., Lopesi, L., & Sankar, A. (Eds.). (2022). Towards a Grammar of Race: In Aotearoa New Zealand. Bridget Williams Books.
Today our guest Byron Clark, an independent researcher and author on New Zealand’s far-right extremist movements. His book, Fear, helps us shows some of the ideological underpinnings of influencers and groups in the lead-up to the Occupation of Parliament in 2022. Byron uses his insight as a Pakeha man, the target demographic of these far-right groups, to help us, understand, untangle, and confront the ideologies and theories that support these movements. I have a lot of respect fo Byron, not just as a researcher, but as a human because he is far from a keyboard warrior, he has paid a personal price for his research. By speaking out he has become the target of intimidation, harassment, and threats from the very groups he studies. And yet, he continues to speak up and speak out.
Resources
Fear: New Zealand's Hostile Underworld of Extremists by Byron Clark
https://www.harpercollins.co.nz/9781775542308/fear/
Byron's Newsletter, Feijoa Dispatch, is a collection of his work and writing. https://www.feijoadispatch.nz/
Histories of Hate: The Radical Right in Aotearoa New Zealand, Edited by
Matthew Cunningham, Marinus La Rooij and Paul Spoonley
The definition of the Great Replacement Theory was in the chapter Identitarianism and the Alt-Right: A New Phase of Alt-Right Politics in Aotearoa New Zealand, by Paul Spoonley and Paul Morris, pg. 308.
In this episode our guest is Distinguished Professor Paul Spoonley. He is a highly regarded sociologist with expertise in the areas of demography, immigration, diversity, and political and ideological extremism. You might already know Paul because he is regularly asked to comment on social issues in the media. In our interview, we discussed the evolution of the radical right in New Zealand, the rise of populism and his ideas on how we can improve social cohesion.
Here are some resources Paul talked about in the episode:
Edelman Trust Barometer
https://www.edelman.com/trust/2023/trust-barometer
Histories of Hate
Matthew Cunningham, Marinus La Rooij and Paul Spoonley (eds)
https://www.otago.ac.nz/press/books/histories-of-hate
Nga Tangata Oho Mairangi
https://communityresearch.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/formidable/8/Southland-Region-Report-Final-with-Logo-RRN-5-2017-1.pdf
Hochschild, A. R. (2018). Strangers in their own land: Anger and mourning on the American right. The New Press.
Populism - A Global Advisor Survey 2024 (NZ Edition)
https://www.ipsos.com/en-nz/populism-global-advisor-survey-2024-nz-edition
In this episode I spoke with Joanna Kidman, Professor of Māori Education at Victoria University of Wellington and Director of He Whenua Taurikura. She has a long and esteemed career as a sociologist researching the impact of the impact of institutional and systemic racism on Māori communities, including her Marsden-funded project looking at the impact of the New Zealand Wars on Māori communities and our society as a whole. Joanna was recently selected as a Fellow of the Royal Society for distinction in her research and leadership in her field. Our conversation ranged from her background, to the ways her research looks at the fractures in society, to what she has learned about peace. Joanna brings her sociological training and Māori worldviews to the area of extremism and counterterrorism research.
If you would like to learn more about Joanna's research, check out the following resources:
https://e-tangata.co.nz/comment-and-analysis/joanna-kidman-standing-for-peace-in-an-angry-world/
https://www.bwb.co.nz/books/fragments-from-a-contested-past
In this episode of Unsettling Extremism I spoke with Dr. Mahdis Azarmandi, Senior Lecturer the School of Educational studies and Leadership at the University of Canterbury. Beyond her work in education, she also has expertise in Political science and Peace and Conflict Studies. We talked about the construction of the concept of peace, different forms of violence, and how terms like terrorism and extremism can be problematic.
If you would like to read some of Mahdis's work, some selected works are below:
Azarmandi, M. (2018). The racial silence within peace studies. Peace Review, 30(1), 69-77.
Azarmandi, M. (2021). Freedom from discrimination: on the coloniality of positive peace. In The Palgrave handbook of positive peace (pp. 611-621). Singapore: Springer Singapore.
Azarmandi, M. (2023). Disturbing a Discipline: Towards Pluriversal Peace and Conflict Studies. Journal of Intervention and Statebuilding, 1-15.
Aikman, P. J., & Azarmandi, M. (2023). Koro and the Statue: Disrupting Colonial Amnesia and White Settler Sovereignty in Aotearoa New Zealand. In The Palgrave Handbook on Rethinking Colonial Commemorations (pp. 33-51). Cham: Springer International Publishing.
Here is a list of of some of the scholars/works Mahdis discussed in this episode:
Debbie Bargallie https://experts.griffith.edu.au/19242-debbie-bargallie/publications
Martin Luther King Jr. https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html
Alana Lentin https://www.alanalentin.net/books/racism-book/
Nelson Maldonado -Torres https://caribbeanstudiesassociation.org/docs/Maldonado-Torres_Outline_Ten_Theses-10.23.16.pdf
Charles Mills https://books.google.co.nz/books/about/The_Racial_Contract.html?id=LPbBdyxGNhQC&redir_esc=y
In this episode I spoke with Dr. Sara Salman, Senior Lecturer at Victoria University of Wellington in Criminology and Scholar in Residence at He Whenua Taurikura. We talked about how social neglect and injustice can negatively affect our social relationships, responses different groups of people had to New Zealand's Covid-19 policies, and how Māori led responses to disaster show us an alternative way help those in need. If you are interested in learning more about what Sara discussed in this interview, see the resources below.
Fitzmaurice, L., & Bargh, M. (2021). Stepping up: COVID-19 checkpoints and rangatiratanga. Huia Publishers.
Hamilton, K. (2023) Maia Whakatakaia - A working paper on Māori recovery and responses for Cyclone Gabrielle.
Salman, S. (2023) Playing in the Team of Five Million: Conformity and Nonconformity to the New Zealand Covid-19 Pandemic Response. Crit Crim 31, 343–361. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10612-023-09707-7
Salman, S. (2023). The Shaming State. NYU Press.
Salman, S. (23 Feb 2024). Shaming the poor doesn’t work. It’s also cruel. Newsroom.
In this episode, we spoke with Associate Professor Wil Hoverd, Director of the Centre for Defence and Security Studies at Massey University about his research and most recent book, State of Threat. We covered topics including ideas about what National Security means, sexism in the security sector, and the Wellington Occupation. If you would like to learn more about Wil’s research see the links below.
https://www.masseypress.ac.nz/books/state-of-threat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzBGnKPTOwQ
Academic Articles
Rivera, C., Oxholm, T., & Hoverd, W. (2023). New Zealand Religious Groups’ Responses to the Christchurch Terror Attacks: Inclusion, Exclusion and the State Response to the Mosque Victims. Journal for the Academic Study of Religion. 36(1), 1-27
Hoverd, WJ., Salter, L., & Veale, K. (2021). The Christchurch Call: insecurity, democracy and digital media - can it really counter online hate and extremism?. SN Social Sciences. 1(1), Retrieved from https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs43545-020-00008-2
Hoverd, W. (2021). FASCISTS AMONG US: Online Hate and the Christchurch Massacre. New Zealand International Review. 46(1), 27-28Retreived from https://www.nziia.org.nz/publication/nzir/6
In this episode, we talk with Dr. Mona Krewel about her research looking into misinformation and disinformation shared by political parties in New Zealand's 2020 and 2023 elections, the meaning of mis and disinformation in her research, and how we are all responsible for slowing its spread.
If after listening to Mona you are interested in learning more, here is some of her research:
Five weeks, 4,000 Facebook posts: Social Media Campaigning in the 2023 election. https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2023/11/five-weeks-4-000-facebook-posts-social-media-campaigning-in-the-2023-election
Big Little lies? Disinformation in the 2023 election campaign. https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2023/10/big-little-lies-disinformation-in-the-2023-election-campaign
Who’s going negative? Social Media Campaigning in the 2023 Election. https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2023/10/negative-campaiging-in-the-2023-new-zealand-election
Facts and Fiction in the 2023 New Zealand Election. https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/news/2023/09/facts-and-fiction-in-the-2023-new-zealand-election-campaign
Fake news didn’t play a big role in NZ’s 2023 election - but there was a rise in small lies, in: The Conversation, November 14, retrieved from: https://theconversation.com/fake-news-didnt-play-a-big-role-in-nzs-2023-election-but-there-was-a-rise-in-small-lies-216338
Unsettling Extremism is a podcast by He Whenua Taurikura, Aotearoa's Independent Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism. In this podcast we will be having critical conversations with experts who look at extremism, hate, mis and disinformation, conspiracy theories as well as our social connectedness all through a uniquely Aotearoa lens. Each episode I'll interview a different expert who will discuss their research contextualise the present moment explain the impact of extremism and disinformation, and let us know what we all can do about it.
