What an insightful conversation we had with Professor Ian Shapiro, Sterling Professor of Political Science at Yale University. Even before our episode, we had long been his students through the Devane lectures, so it was our immense privilege to speak with him! We began with his book “Politics Against Domination,” discussing the idea that domination is the central problem politics must confront, then moved to exploring democracy as a conditioning good and how this understanding informs both the protection and promotion of democracy, as well as the lessons drawn from its successes and failures abroad. Then we turned to his acclaimed work “The Wolf at the Door: The Menace of Economic Insecurity and How to Fight It,” exploring ideas such as the role of the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) in reducing political insecurity and creating a race-to-the-top effect, the potential of a bottom up expansion in healthcare starting with a public Medicare option for younger adults, and the importance of building strong coalitions. We then turned to the topic of elections, discussing how polarization often arises from structural factors like safe seats and ideologically extreme primaries that distort representation. Finally, we explored voting reforms to better include marginalized communities and how political parties can reconnect with voters in an era where political branding often overshadows party platforms. In the end, we had the chance to learn what still surprises Professor Shapiro, even after his long and distinguished teaching career. Check it out!