Carl Miller, the investigative journalist behind the award-winning true crime podcast Kill List, joins Helen and Martin again in the studio for the second part of this conversation. This episode delves deeper into the dark web assassination market, revealing a world where online fantasy bleeds into real violence. Carl and his team exposed a hitman-for-hire site with 175 people targeted for murder. The focus is the shocking case of Kelly Harper, a woman who tried to hire a hitman to kill her ex-husband. We hear Carl’s unfiltered account of the moral dilemmas and personal dangers faced by his team as they raced to warn the victim. Carl explores the emotional and psychological toll of their work and the reality of navigating an incompetent police bureaucracy. He explains why, despite the risks, they had to intervene. Beyond the specific stories, Carl offers critical insights into the failure of law enforcement to combat cybercrime. He explains why the current policing model is broken and argues for a single, national unit to handle these cross-border digital investigations. This powerful story is a testament to courage and resilience, highlighting how ordinary people can become both perpetrators and targets in the modern digital underworld. To listen to Kill List on apple podcasts please follow this link https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/kill-list/id1769072368 If you'd like to listen to this episode ad-free, along with our entire back catalogue, which includes a True Criminals coffee mug, please visit our Patreon page: www.patreon.com/truecriminals As an independent podcast, we rely on listener support. If you’d like to help, you can donate via our PayPal link: PayPal Surfshark VPN: https://surfshark.com/truecriminals or use code TRUECRIMINALS at checkout to get 4 extra months of Surfshark VPN ............................ Follow us: Instagram: @true.criminals Subscribe to our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@True-Criminals Connect with Martin Brunt: Twitter: @skymartinbrunt Discover more about Martin’s career and the cases he’s covered by reading his book: No One Got Cracked Over the Head for No Reason: Dispatches from a Crime Reporter. Read Here: https://amzn.eu/d/g1WisSY Connect with Helen Fospero: Instagram: @helenfospero Check out Helen’s podcast, The Convex Conversation: Listen Here. https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-convex-conversation/id1510209575 Credits: True Criminals is produced by Audio Bleach Global. Visit www.audiobleachglobal.com/truecriminals for more information. Executive Producer: Lee Mann Producer: Russell Barnes Audio Production: Andrew Chappell Music Composition: Chap Mannequin Artwork: Bleached Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices