Phil, who was a Pro-Palestine campus activist in his university days, reflects on the recent police repression of student protesters at Columbia University and how it's part of a broader assault on pro-Palestinian solidarity movements across global campuses. But beyond the headlines, this episode dives into a deeper question: what counts as learning, and does dissent not create a stronger learning environment?   Phil challenges the idea that protest is a disruption to education and argues that dissent is not just compatible with learning—it is essential to it. Drawing parallels to state repression in Uganda and the weaponization of “order” against public mobilization, we rethink the role of public space, universities, education, and protest in our society. Key Themes & Ideas:   The false dichotomy between protest and academic learning Western pedagogies vs. action-oriented learning traditions The politics of space: libraries, campuses, and the commons The normalization of violence against dissent The necessity of public discomfort for public growthGet Involved: National SJP   Credits:Image: pbs.orgHost: Phil WilmotProducer: Rodgers George