The welfare state is often talked about as a universal safety net, a system designed to catch anyone who falls. But does that image really capture how different countries understand and organise welfare around the world?

In this episode, George Miller talks to Professor Paul Spicker, author of What Is the Welfare State For?, about some of the historical roots, moral foundations, and practical workings of different welfare systems. Drawing on examples ranging from 16th-century Flanders to modern-day India, Paul explores the tension between ideal models and on-the-ground realities – and explains why the British case is far from typical.

The conversation touches on cash assistance, healthcare, solidarity, new technology and the role of the private sector – offering insight into what the welfare state is, what it does, and who it’s really for.

Paul Spicker is Emeritus Professor of Public Policy in Robert Gordon University, Aberdeen and a writer and commentator on social policy.

Find out more about the book at: https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/trade/what-is-the-welfare-state-for

The transcript is available here: https://www.transformingsociety.co.uk/2025/07/01/podcast-safety-net-or-patchwork-quilt-getting-to-grips-with-the-welfare-state/

Timestamps:

00:56 - Can you take us back to the mid-70s and introduce us to who you were then?

06:48 - What is the problem with the 'ideal' welfare state?

08:17 - How do you define something as nebulous as the welfare state?

13:31 - Can you tell us about Ypres in Belgium in the 1530s?

24:14 - Why is the welfare state always couched in moral terms?

26:40 - To what extent are those debates healthy and inevitable? 

33:30 - Are worries about welfare cuts misplaced?

40:39 - Is the private sector part of the solution or is it actually part of the problem?

43:34 - Is there anything that you've fundamentally changed your mind on since the mid-70s? 

Intro music:

Cold by yoitrax | @yoitrax

Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com 

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