In Castlemaine in Central Victoria, Liz from This Must Be The Place interviews Anitra Nelson about a new book, Post-Carbon Inclusion: Transitions Built on Justice. Anitra is one of the co-editors of the volume and contributed chapters on degrowth in the context of transitions to decarbonisation. The discussion introduces the principles of degrowth, and covers international and local examples of what are termed pre-figurative hybrids: people doing things now in ways that both imagine and build possibilities for a future world. These are local (a key term is ‘open localisation’) networks doing things that try not to suck for people or for the environment: which can be as simple as places to get your toaster repaired, or as fundamental as a establishing a different model for secure housing. Is it possible to imagine – and make – a better future without relying on unfair economic and political systems? Anitra explains how degrowth focuses on meeting people’s basic and varied needs rather than on new luxury commodities. It is about scaling out rather than up, horizontal rather than top-down, and quality over quantity. In terms of technology, for example, the emphasis is on convivial tools– accessibility, understanding how things work, durability, choice – in contrast to scaled up, top-down, disposable gadgets. Topics include personal and shared space, fashion and textiles, technology, ‘buying back’ your time (working only enough to buy the time back to experiment with your life), state versus local governance, land, the spatial aspects of degrowth, debt, transport and food. Examples include Cargominaia in Budapest, the House of Change in East Berlin, the Castlemaine Free University, Repair café, and central Victorian cohousing and eco-collaborative housing. Around housing in particular, however, planning and related regulations tend to disable rather than enable change – even or especially of the positive kind needed for transitions. We get into (not literally) composting toilets, gray water, parking (of course), and tiny homes. The book and this introductory discussion of it is about breaking open the landscape for some kind of post-carbon inclusion – imagining the possibilities before they are foreclosed. Castlemaine, by the way, is apparently known locally as Castlemania.