We have Omar Ansari, Founder, Surly Brewing paired with Andy Pearson, VP of Creative Liquid Death. Both of these individuals and brands have been swimming upstream, defying the norm and breaking the molds of their respective categories. We think this pairing is so good, Apple Pie and Ice Cream are going to be jealous. Areas of learning from this episode: One: What it takes to question authority and norms of culture, and do something dramatically different from standard. Two: The importance of creativity in our community, in whatever form it takes and how that is changing in this current economy. Three: Creativity in a world where risk is measured in social media, cancellation and polarization.